Why are there so few dentists volunteering?

[Ypo.]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Why are there so few free dental services?

And when there ARE volunteer dentist services, they are usually just for extractions (gee, thanks now I have a gaping hole) or fillings. They usually aren't for crowns or bridges and I have never heard of free implants.

Seriously, there are just as many people without dental insurance as without medical insurance. Teeth are important!! So why is it that it is 50X more easy to get free medical care than dental care?

Are there just fewer dentists volunteering? Do dentists not feel a social responsibility in the same way that many doctors do?

 

[gryffindor]

No, teeth are actually not important compared to say a heart or a liver. You don't die if you're missing a tooth. If you are missing all of your teeth, you may have to eat a soft diet, but you can still obtain adequate nutrition (ask those same dentists how many of their completely edentulous patients are obese).

If you have a bad infection/abscess that goes haywire, you might end up in a lot of pain, admitted to the hospital, or very rarely dead. An extraction will quickly get rid of the source of these problems, hence the ease of extractions in charity care.

And, there are many private practitioners who will offer pro-bono care in their offices, but it is case dependent and upto the individual dentist. Many state medicaid plans offer only the basics for dental coverage to keep the patient pain-free and able to minimally function - extractions, dentures, and fillings.

 

[Ypo.]

No, teeth are actually not important compared to say a heart or a liver. You don't die if you're missing a tooth. If you are missing all of your teeth, you may have to eat a soft diet, but you can still obtain adequate nutrition (ask those same dentists how many of their completely edentulous patients are obese). .

Nobody said teeth were AS important as your liver. But that's just an irrelevant excuse for the lack of free dental services.

If you have a bad infection/abscess that goes haywire, you might end up in a lot of pain, admitted to the hospital, or very rarely dead. An extraction will quickly get rid of the source of these problems, hence the ease of extractions in charity care..

And doctors don't have those same risks and more for many of their medical procedures? I'm sorry, but these sound like well-rehearsed excuses to me.

And, there are many private practitioners who will offer pro-bono care in their offices, but it is case dependent and upto the individual dentist. Many state medicaid plans offer only the basics for dental coverage to keep the patient pain-free and able to minimally function - extractions, dentures, and fillings.

Tell me something I don't already know. Here in my state there is a wait list of YEARS just to be seen at the health department for a simple extraction. I saw a low-income patient yesterday and was able to sign him up for full medical coverage that will be in effect in two weeks. What he really wanted was dental care, and I had to tell him 'tough luck'.

I'm not trying to target dentists. I think this is more a condemnation of our current medical system than anything else. But at the least we should work towards change and make priorities instead of excuses.

 

[Holy Thursday]

Why are there so few dentists who volunteer?

And when there ARE volunteer dentist services, they are usually just for extractions (gee, thanks now I have a gaping hole) or fillings. They usually aren't for crowns or bridges and I have never heard of free implants.

Seriously, there are just as many people without dental insurance as without medical insurance. Teeth are important!! So why is it that it is 50X more easy to get free medical care than dental care?

Are there just fewer dentists volunteering? Do dentists not feel a social responsibility in the same way that many doctors do?

If you are willing to open your eyes, you will see that many dentists volunteer...they just don't advertise it. Look at homeless shelters, battered women's shelters, and community clinics with dental coverage. The reason implants, crowns, and bridges aren't doled out like candy is cuz there are lab costs for things like crowns (labs don't work for free) and cuz missing teeth (ie, why you would use implants and bridges) can be replaced much less expensively by removable appliances.

The question is not "why don't more dentists volunteer?," but more like "how can I be more observant of oral health professionals that are volunteering?"

 

[gryffindor]

Someone else on this board please chime in with an opinion. Some of what you are asking about has to do with the concept that things like crowns & implants can really be considered "esthetic" services and there are just too many people needing charity care that are in pain (meaning they need extractions). It becomes a time/cost-effectiveness scenario here. If I'm working in a free clinic, and there are 15 patients lined up in pain needing extractions, and 1 comes in with a broken tooth needing a crown. In the 2 visits (1 hour each) it would take to do that crown, I could probably finish up at least 8 of those in pain needing the extractions. Where should I spend my volunteer time? This can be a lengthy discussion and I could go on, but I may start sounding really selfish & greedy to the idealistic & humanitarian med student.

And yes, like to above poster stated - if you have 1 gap, it can be replaced with a $3000 implant & crown procedure or a $300 removable flipper/single tooth retainer appliance. Or you can leave the gap and still function fine chewing with the 31 other teeth in your mouth. If it's gonna be pro-bono, which option do you think is a better use of money in this case?

I'm sure there are plastic surgeons donating their time to pro-bono cases involving disfigurement. Do they offer the low-income community cosmetic liposuction & breast augmentations pro-bono as well? Where do you draw the line?

 

[diagnodent]

Quotes from two great dentists,

"Teeth are like a gun, they can kill you."

"Teeth aren't for everyone."

When you talk about dental services needed and wanted you are discussing two different things. Lots of people need dental services, but if it actually means seeing the dentists then they dont' want to. There aren't many truly underserved populations in the US for dental services, but there are many who underutilize dental services.

 

[Recapitulator]

As far as where our time should be spent, yes we should continue to see patients in pain in 'free' clinics because that is important. I absolutely agree with you griffin and Holy. If the patient does not wish to have the tooth extracted then they need to be referred to a general dentist that can provide comprehensive care after relieving their pain either pharmacologically or with a pulpectomy.

However, I think our primary focus should be in seeing children. Dental caries still remains the single most common chronic disease of childhood in the US. We as dentists can barely keep up. I know in my state we have things like Give Kids a Smile day where we provide free comprehensive dental care. We also have a mobile dental unit that travels all over the state throughout the year placing preventitive sealants on children in underserved areas. If we really want to make an impact on oral health in America that is where we need to do it. We need to go to elementary and middle schools and teach the kids proper oral hygiene, we should have the parents come in as well so we can show them too. We need to focus on prevention. Since we are talking about costs this is BY FAR the most cost-effective use of our volunteer time.

 

[Ypo.]

If you are willing to open your eyes, you will see that many dentists volunteer...they just don't advertise it. Look at homeless shelters, battered women's shelters, and community clinics with dental coverage. The reason implants, crowns, and bridges aren't doled out like candy is cuz there are lab costs for things like crowns (labs don't work for free) and cuz missing teeth (ie, why you would use implants and bridges) can be replaced much less expensively by removable appliances.

The question is not "why don't more dentists volunteer?," but more like "how can I be more observant of oral health professionals that are volunteering?"

Unfortunately there is a sparcity of such services in my state. If you are trying to tell me that they are there but I just haven't looked around, you are mistaken. I'd like to be 'more observant' of the 'overabundance' of dental volunteers but in order to do that these services must first exist. You mention homeless shelters, community clinics offering dental coverage-maybe they have them in your city, but the shelters and clinics here in my city don't offer such services.

I'm sure you are right in that there are many dentists who spend a lot of time volunteering and offering pro-bono services. I just want to reiterate that I'm not trying to say that dentists are lazy or selfish (or anything like that). I think the problem lies mainly with our health care system. However, I was wondering if that was in part due to having (what I believe to be) faulty priorities, and/or if it was also due to a sparcity of dentists willing to volunteer.

 

[Ypo.]

Someone else on this board please chime in with an opinion. Some of what you are asking about has to do with the concept that things like crowns & implants can really be considered "esthetic" services and there are just too many people needing charity care that are in pain (meaning they need extractions). It becomes a time/cost-effectiveness scenario here. If I'm working in a free clinic, and there are 15 patients lined up in pain needing extractions, and 1 comes in with a broken tooth needing a crown. In the 2 visits (1 hour each) it would take to do that crown, I could probably finish up at least 8 of those in pain needing the extractions. Where should I spend my volunteer time? This can be a lengthy discussion and I could go on, but I may start sounding really selfish & greedy to the idealistic & humanitarian med student.

And yes, like to above poster stated - if you have 1 gap, it can be replaced with a $3000 implant & crown procedure or a $300 removable flipper/single tooth retainer appliance. Or you can leave the gap and still function fine chewing with the 31 other teeth in your mouth. If it's gonna be pro-bono, which option do you think is a better use of money in this case?

I'm sure there are plastic surgeons donating their time to pro-bono cases involving disfigurement. Do they offer the low-income community cosmetic liposuction & breast augmentations pro-bono as well? Where do you draw the line?

OK, what about the patients with 7 or 8 missing teeth?? When does it start getting to be a big enough problem that it warrants a crown?

Liposuction and breast augmentation are not really in the same class with tooth repair in my opinion. Go get a couple of your front teeth pulled out and then tell me how much that affects your self-esteem, your willingness to smile, your professional appearance (a big issue for a homeless person trying to get a job), before we even begin to start talking about the difficulties with speech and chewing.

 

[Ypo.]

As far as where our time should be spent, yes we should continue to see patients in pain in 'free' clinics because that is important. I absolutely agree with you griffin and Holy. If the patient does not wish to have the tooth extracted then they need to be referred to a general dentist that can provide comprehensive care after relieving their pain either pharmacologically or with a pulpectomy.

However, I think our primary focus should be in seeing children. Dental caries still remains the single most common chronic disease of childhood in the US. We as dentists can barely keep up. I know in my state we have things like Give Kids a Smile day where we provide free comprehensive dental care. We also have a mobile dental unit that travels all over the state throughout the year placing preventitive sealants on children in underserved areas. If we really want to make an impact on oral health in America that is where we need to do it. We need to go to elementary and middle schools and teach the kids proper oral hygiene, we should have the parents come in as well so we can show them too. We need to focus on prevention. Since we are talking about costs this is BY FAR the most cost-effective use of our volunteer time.

Good points. 👍

 

[gryffindor]

OK, what about the patients with 7 or 8 missing teeth?? When does it start getting to be a big enough problem that it warrants a crown?

Liposuction and breast augmentation are not really in the same class with tooth repair in my opinion. Go get a couple of your front teeth pulled out and then tell me how much that affects your self-esteem, your willingness to smile, your professional appearance (a big issue for a homeless person trying to get a job), before we even begin to start talking about the difficulties with speech and chewing.

I agree it is not good for your self esteem to be missing 6 maxillary front teeth. However, when talking cost & volunteering your time - partial dentures before implants & crowns. I touched on this when I mentioned we can replace a gap from 1 missing tooth (say your front tooth) with either a $3000 implant + crown, or a $300 removable flipper appliance. In fact, if the patient has a gap from 2 missing teeth right next to each other (say both of your front teeth got knocked out in a homeless person fight) the cost becomes $6K for 2 implants + 2 crown, and only goes up to maybe $325 for the removable flipper appliance. Assuming there are no other problems, the flipper appliance will take 2 visits, maybe 1 hour total time. The 2 implants + 2 crowns will take multiple visits many months apart - and the patient would likely still have to wear a flipper in the interim so he doesn't walk around without front teeth. These costs are approximate, but my point is a lot of dental problems that are esthetic can be solved with cheaper options than some of the fancier & more expensive technology out there.

 

[nvpremolar]

Many dentists that I have been involved with do a lot of charity work however it is on a case by case basis. If a patient of low economic status comes into your office and needs a lot of work, arrangements are usually made. The services are never free however. The patient needs to make sacrfices if they are asking the dentist to sacrifice as well. I think that most dentists are more than happy to help out as long as the patient is setting their oral health to the same priority that is expected of the dentist.

 

[Ypo.]

I agree it is not good for your self esteem to be missing 6 maxillary front teeth. However, when talking cost & volunteering your time - partial dentures before implants & crowns. I touched on this when I mentioned we can replace a gap from 1 missing tooth (say your front tooth) with either a $3000 implant + crown, or a $300 removable flipper appliance. In fact, if the patient has a gap from 2 missing teeth right next to each other (say both of your front teeth got knocked out in a homeless person fight) the cost becomes $6K for 2 implants + 2 crown, and only goes up to maybe $325 for the removable flipper appliance. Assuming there are no other problems, the flipper appliance will take 2 visits, maybe 1 hour total time. The 2 implants + 2 crowns will take multiple visits many months apart - and the patient would likely still have to wear a flipper in the interim so he doesn't walk around without front teeth. These costs are approximate, but my point is a lot of dental problems that are esthetic can be solved with cheaper options than some of the fancier & more expensive technology out there.

Now that you mention those devices, I think I have seen them before. Do they often have a metal ring at the top of them that is visible when the patient smiles? I believe they have to take them out when they eat.

Those options that you mentioned sound like a good alternative to the crowns, bridges (I only mentioned those because I am unfamiliar with all the available options for replacing teeth or filling their holes). I've just seen what a huge difference having a set of teeth (or false teeth) can make in someone's life.

I haven't had dental insurance in ten years, and the best thing I ever had offered me by a dentist was a 5% professional discount when I paid in cash. So it's nice to hear that there are some dentists out there who work with low-income patients.

 

[toofache32]

Why are there so few free grocery stores? I mean, come on, food is important. Maybe not as important as a liver, but you should see how not eating and being thin as a rail will affect your self-esteem.

And when there ARE free groceries, it's just bread & milk. Why don't they ever give away lobster tails?

Do grocery stores not feel the social responsibility for keeping people from becoming malnourished? Because it's the grocery store's fault when people become malnourished.

 

[capisce?]

Why are there so few free grocery stores? I mean, come on, food is important. Maybe not as important as a liver, but you should see how not eating and being thin as a rail will affect your self-esteem.

And when there ARE free groceries, it's just bread & milk. Why don't they ever give away lobster tails?

Do grocery stores not feel the social responsibility for keeping people from becoming malnourished? Because it's the grocery store's fault when people become malnourished.

Quite possibly the best post I've read on here in a long while.

 

[toofache32]

OK, what about the patients with 7 or 8 missing teeth?? When does it start getting to be a big enough problem that it warrants a crown?

What about the people who have a vitamin deficiency? They REALLY need food.

Nobody said teeth were AS important as your liver. But that's just an irrelevant excuse for the lack of free dental services.

Food is much more important than teeth....you can live without them. But you won't make it very long without food.

Here in my state there is a wait list of YEARS just to be seen at the health department for a simple extraction. I saw a low-income patient yesterday and was able to sign him up for full medical coverage that will be in effect in two weeks. What he really wanted was dental care, and I had to tell him 'tough luck'.

In my state the wait list for free groceries is YEARS just for the bread and milk. I saw a super-skinny customer yesterday and was able to sign him up for bread & milk, but he really wanted the lobster and prime rib.

I haven't had dental insurance in ten years, and the best thing I ever had offered me by a dentist was a 5% professional discount when I paid in cash. So it's nice to hear that there are some dentists out there who work with low-income patients.

I haven't had food insurance in 10 years, and the best thing I've had offered was 2-for-1 Coors Light.


Dentistry is elective. Dentistry is a privilege, not a right. Nevermind the fact that all dentists give away 5% or more of their work every year....to deadbeat patients who don't pay or pull insurance scams.

 

[scalpel2008]

and the best thing I've had offered was 2-for-1 Coors Light.

where? i have the shakes again...

 

[capisce?]

Dentistry is elective. Dentistry is a privilege, not a right. Nevermind the fact that all dentists give away 5% or more of their work every year....to deadbeat patients who don't pay or pull insurance scams.

You mean it doesn't make you angry when your patient's mother is halfway through explaining how she can't afford dentistry which is why her 5 year old son's mouth looks like he chewed on a hand grenade, only to be interrupted halfway through her story to rifle through her kate spade to find her brand new razor phone to yell at the baby daddy?

 

[WildcatDMD]

I haven't had dental insurance in ten years, and the best thing I ever had offered me by a dentist was a 5% professional discount when I paid in cash. So it's nice to hear that there are some dentists out there who work with low-income patients.

Why would your dentist offer you anything else? Do you expect your dentist to pay for your rent, groceries, cell phone? Many cities have programs that provide for basic dental care to low income patients. In MA there is MassHealth which covers patients on Medicaid for "fillings", dentures, crowns on anterior teeth, and obviously extractions. I do feel dentists have some obligation to provide volunteer services, and I would venture that most dentists do.

 

[Rube]

I haven't had dental insurance in ten years, and the best thing I ever had offered me by a dentist was a 5% professional discount when I paid in cash. So it's nice to hear that there are some dentists out there who work with low-income patients.

Ten years and you can't afford 25 bucks a month for out of pocket dental coverage? I bet you have a cell phone or internet service though right?

Now as far as dentistry goes, there is a definite need for dental care in urban and rural communities especially. Each dentist I've known works with the urban poor. Many will work half days once a week. I have done this and will continue to do it.

The best thing is for the dental community and the public health community to tell ghetto black kids to brush. (and some white kids too). An ounce of prevention.... blah blah blah. But as long as the entire democratic party and MSM keeps telling the poor that health care 1) is unaffordable and 2) a collective responsibility then the least fortunate among us will suffer. I see you've already fallen victim

I haven't had dental insurance in ten years, and the best thing I ever had offered me by a dentist was a 5% professional discount when I paid in cash.

 

[fightingspirit]

Free medical care???? And who is the genius who told you that docs are providing "free medical care"….the last time I checked, only air was free.

There are seemingly free medical services that the individual is not paying for but whatever it is, someone is paying for it, someway somehow. Perhaps a doc can offer his knowledge and labor for free but any equipment, medication, diagnostic technique, room, or facility he/she uses, comes with a price that is unfelt and yet paid by uncle sam. You get seemingly free medical care because society had collectively decided to alleviate the burden of non-dental medical service fees. In fact, dental care is more affordable than non-dental medical care. Society however decided to make plans and push government support for non-dental medical care, which makes dental care seem more expensive while the real price of non-dental medical care goes unfelt. If you have issues with the system, then address the system, not the dentists/omfs.

 

[toofache32]

....Society however decided to make plans and push government support for non-dental medical care, which makes dental care seem more expensive while the real price of non-dental medical care goes unfelt...

Like I said before....Dentistry is elective. It's the same reason medical insurance won't pay for my boob job.

 

[fightingspirit]

is it elective all the way though? one needs teeth to eat and when a few get decayed and fall, one needs dentures or something to eat, and eating is not elective.

there is a point when dentistry becomes essential, and as an OMFS, i am sure you know that.

what i meant by my comment was that elective or not, essential or not, there is less governmental support for dentistry.

 

[gryffindor]

is it elective all the way though? one needs teeth to eat and when a few get decayed and fall, one needs dentures or something to eat, and eating is not elective.

there is a point when dentistry becomes essential, and as an OMFS, i am sure you know that.

what i meant by my comment was that elective or not, essential or not, there is less governmental support for dentistry.

No, you don't need dentures to eat. Seriously, you don't. You can put your food through a blender and still get all of your nutrition. I had plenty of patients who had zero teeth, hated their dentures, and just got used to "gumming" their food.

Of course toofache knows when dentistry is absolutely essential. From doing a GPR, I can tell you that there are few "essential" dental procedures, they can probably be counted on 1 hand. The only essential procedure that could be performed in our ER was incision & drainage of an abscessed tooth performed with a scalpel & suction, no dental instruments whatsoever. The patient had also probably neglected to take care of that tooth over the past 1.5 years it bothered them which is why they showed up in your ER with a swollen face in the first place.

 

[Holy Thursday]

The best thing is for the dental community and the public health community to tell ghetto black kids to brush. (and some white kids too).

SOME white kids.

Damn! Be careful what you write. You sound as if you are saying that all african-americans live in the ghetto and have **** for mouths!

 

[Holy Thursday]

Unfortunately there is a sparcity of such services in my state. If you are trying to tell me that they are there but I just haven't looked around, you are mistaken. I'd like to be 'more observant' of the 'overabundance' of dental volunteers but in order to do that these services must first exist. You mention homeless shelters, community clinics offering dental coverage-maybe they have them in your city, but the shelters and clinics here in my city don't offer such services.

I'm sure you are right in that there are many dentists who spend a lot of time volunteering and offering pro-bono services. I just want to reiterate that I'm not trying to say that dentists are lazy or selfish (or anything like that). I think the problem lies mainly with our health care system. However, I was wondering if that was in part due to having (what I believe to be) faulty priorities, and/or if it was also due to a sparcity of dentists willing to volunteer.

Tell me what state you are in and I will go onto the internet and find tons of community service dentistry for you. Sounds more like you want the services to find you rather than search for them yourself or that you want the cadillac treatment when a simple ford will suffice.

 

[DrJeff]

Another factor that hasn't been addressed so far in this thread is that currently there are about 800,000 active, practicing physicians in the U.S. compared to about 225,000 active, practicing dentists in the U.S. Throw in the now 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and you can see where the numbers game comes into play with the perceptions out there.

 

[fightingspirit]

No, you don't need dentures to eat. Seriously, you don't. You can put your food through a blender and still get all of your nutrition. I had plenty of patients who had zero teeth, hated their dentures, and just got used to "gumming" their food.

Of course toofache knows when dentistry is absolutely essential. From doing a GPR, I can tell you that there are few "essential" dental procedures, they can probably be counted on 1 hand. The only essential procedure that could be performed in our ER was incision & drainage of an abscessed tooth performed with a scalpel & suction, no dental instruments whatsoever. The patient had also probably neglected to take care of that tooth over the past 1.5 years it bothered them which is why they showed up in your ER with a swollen face in the first place.

very informative!! i knew that some people gummed but i had no idea that they are not uncommon.

my main point was that the real cost of dental work is felt more than the real cost of nondental medical work.

peace

 

[TKD]

Like I said before....Dentistry is elective. It's the same reason medical insurance won't pay for my boob job.

I agree with many of your points. People need to take responsibility for their own health care (not only dental, but all medical), however how is a regular old cavity elective?? I mean it has to be treated in some way (filling, RCT, extraction). I don't follow the boob job analogy....

 

[TKD]

Ten years and you can't afford 25 bucks a month for out of pocket dental coverage? I bet you have a cell phone or internet service though right?

Now as far as dentistry goes, there is a definite need for dental care in urban and rural communities especially. Each dentist I've known works with the urban poor. Many will work half days once a week. I have done this and will continue to do it.

The best thing is for the dental community and the public health community to tell ghetto black kids to brush. (and some white kids too). An ounce of prevention.... blah blah blah. But as long as the entire democratic party and MSM keeps telling the poor that health care 1) is unaffordable and 2) a collective responsibility then the least fortunate among us will suffer. I see you've already fallen victim

Add the millions of white kids living in the ghetto and in rural America to the list of people to tell to brush. Obviously you're never treated the population in places like rural OH and PA.

 

[TKD]

Society however decided to make plans and push government support for non-dental medical care, which makes dental care seem more expensive while the real price of non-dental medical care goes unfelt. If you have issues with the system, then address the system, not the dentists/omfs.

I see you're point. That's a major problem with the health care system, and why patients feel they're entitled to more than they should be. Think about all the elective medical care that is covered - they cast the net too wide. It's funny we have ophthalmologists lobbying for lasik eye surgery to be categorized as a necessity (from cosmetic) while some dentists are saying dentures are elective (I have seen patients "gumming it" but the vast majority in my experience depend on their dentures)

 

[setdoc7]

Rube, your comment concerning african american children is not only inappropriate, but conveys your complete lack of social conscience and professional integrity. It is my opinion as a practicing dentist, a dental school professor, and a residency program director that you are the type of person this profession needs less of, and your lack of ethics and common sense will come across to all of your future patients. Perhaps at this time you might consider a career path more suitable to your bigoted state of mind.

 

[TKD]

Why are there so few free dental services?

And when there ARE volunteer dentist services, they are usually just for extractions (gee, thanks now I have a gaping hole) or fillings. They usually aren't for crowns or bridges and I have never heard of free implants.

Seriously, there are just as many people without dental insurance as without medical insurance. Teeth are important!! So why is it that it is 50X more easy to get free medical care than dental care?

Are there just fewer dentists volunteering? Do dentists not feel a social responsibility in the same way that many doctors do?

I honestly think that you haven't searched enough for all the volunteering that is occuring in dentistry (Give Kids A Smile Day, etc). Add that to all the dentists who quietly do half day a week of free care and it's much more than you expect.

Food for thought, my instructor in school practiced Friday afternoons free of charge, focusing on preventive services (cleaning, fluoride, etc). All patients were Medicaid. Although he saw at least 15 patients/day he would rather write the whole thing off then actually bill medicaid for these services because it was way too much of a hassle with all the bureaucratic nonsense and letters he had to send for approval of work. And the reimbursement was so low it wasn't worth his time.

So patients need to take responsibility and not feel entitled to free service. If the government wants to fund preventive services of any kind (that's a big IF and both sides can be debated), they should do it the right way (either properly fund a well organized program or don't fund it at all).

 

[Lemming]

Rube, your comment concerning african american children is not only inappropriate, but conveys your complete lack of social conscience and professional integrity. It is my opinion as a practicing dentist, a dental school professor, and a residency program director that you are the type of person this profession needs less of, and your lack of ethics and common sense will come across to all of your future patients. Perhaps at this time you might consider a career path more suitable to your bigoted state of mind.

Ever since I started perusing the dental forums here I have been astounded by the lack of sensitivity displayed in serious discussions. Not yet to enough be a total discredit to SDN, as it seems that sincere individuals do exist. Yet when these individuals try to make a point they are faced with sarcasm, bigotry, antagonism...you name it. Why? Is the profession just that full of these types of people, who because they work as "individuals" in a profession that supports this type of work condones it? Or is it just the anonanimity that brings about the idea that disrespect is OK? There's a fine line between humor and the latter. I can't imagine that it is just limited to anonamous posts. Maybe I'm just naive, or probably more likely idealistic. I really did expect more from professionals, and I hope that there are more genuine professionals out there, or maybe I just don't know what I'm getting into.

 

[toofache32]

is it elective all the way though? one needs teeth to eat and when a few get decayed and fall, one needs dentures or something to eat, and eating is not elective.

I see 300 lb. edentulous patients every day. You don't need teeth.

 

[scalpel2008]

is it elective all the way though? one needs teeth to eat and when a few get decayed and fall, one needs dentures or something to eat, and eating is not elective.

there is a point when dentistry becomes essential, and as an OMFS, i am sure you know that.

what i meant by my comment was that elective or not, essential or not, there is less governmental support for dentistry.

http://www.boost.com/boostpluslabelinfo.html
http://www.carnationinstantbreakfast.com/

 

[nvpremolar]

Common guys--dental school was easy to get into, its easy to pass, and its free to all that apply--why shouldn't we give away free implants..maybe even throw in a big screen TV!

 

[Firm]

Why are there so few free grocery stores? I mean, come on, food is important. Maybe not as important as a liver, but you should see how not eating and being thin as a rail will affect your self-esteem.

And when there ARE free groceries, it's just bread & milk. Why don't they ever give away lobster tails?

Do grocery stores not feel the social responsibility for keeping people from becoming malnourished? Because it's the grocery store's fault when people become malnourished.

Thank you. Please don't forget to include the lab, who is expected to work for free to make these crowns and bridges.

 

[gryffindor]

very informative!! i knew that some people gummed but i had no idea that they are not uncommon.

my main point was that the real cost of dental work is felt more than the real cost of nondental medical work.

peace

I think people would rather not gum their food if they have a set of dentures that they like & are comfortable with or can afford & are willing to go through the process of implant-supported dentures (especially for the mandibular). But just because you give a patient a set of dentures doesn't mean that it will solve all their chewing problems because some people just never get used to having all that plastic in their mouths. They figure out that gumming Krispy Kreme isn't so bad hence the 300 lb obese edentulous patients in toofache's clinic.

I think you're right though about the cost of dental work being felt. As a dental resident I can quote fees to patients before doing any procedure so they can decide if they can pay for it since except for Medicaid, everyone else has to pay something out of pocket. How many medical residents have any idea what the real cost of the labs & tests they order every day actually are?

 

[Ypo.]

Do dentists not feel a social responsibility in the same way that many doctors do?

Unfortunately, a lot of the posts have answered this question in a manner that was not as professional as I hoped.

If you do not feel that dentists have a social responsibility, there is no need to be offensive or defensive about it. I was just curious about what the general sentiment is in the professional dental world.

 

[armorshell]

Ever since I started perusing the dental forums here I have been astounded by the lack of sensitivity displayed in serious discussions. Not yet to enough be a total discredit to SDN, as it seems that sincere individuals do exist. Yet when these individuals try to make a point they are faced with sarcasm, bigotry, antagonism...you name it. Why? Is the profession just that full of these types of people, who because they work as "individuals" in a profession that supports this type of work condones it? Or is it just the anonanimity that brings about the idea that disrespect is OK? There's a fine line between humor and the latter. I can't imagine that it is just limited to anonamous posts. Maybe I'm just naive, or probably more likely idealistic. I really did expect more from professionals, and I hope that there are more genuine professionals out there, or maybe I just don't know what I'm getting into.

It's my experience that the anonymity of the internet tends to bring out the worst in people. I'm sure most of the people behind posts like the one quoted above are fairly normal in real life, perhaps even pleasent. It's hard to withstand the lure of 'anonymous', and he does not forgive.

Because of this reason I don't think it's fair for people (even dental school professors 😉 ) to extrapolate a person's entire personality from a single post, I know in the past I've said some stupid things, things I don't even actually believe.

 

[Lemming]

It's my experience that the anonymity of the internet tends to bring out the worst in people. I'm sure most of the people behind posts like the one quoted above are fairly normal in real life, perhaps even pleasent. It's hard to withstand the lure of 'anonymous', and he does not forgive.

Because of this reason I don't think it's fair for people (even dental school professors 😉 ) to extrapolate a person's entire personality from a single post, I know in the past I've said some stupid things, things I don't even actually believe.

Yo Shell. Yes you are probably right, and I just felt like letting out my deep down innermost warm and fuzzy feelings. ha ha! I am sarcastic all the time, but not in a derogatory way. I have a feeling that people who consistently show disrespect, regardless of the audience probably portray those traits in real life. I could be wrong.

 

[fightingspirit]

Unfortunately, a lot of the posts have answered this question in a manner that was not as professional as I hoped.

If you do not feel that dentists have a social responsibility, there is no need to be offensive or defensive about it. I was just curious about what the general sentiment is in the professional dental world.

why do i have this little feeling that the true purpose of your initial post might very well not be "just curious about what the general sentiment is in the professional dental world"? are you by any chance secretly hoping that one day physicians would be absolved from the moral obligation of providing free labor or from the necessity of accepting insurance? (no offense....real question here).

when it comes to social responsibility, i think each and everyone of us has a subjective take on it. it's a complex issue to discuss. selfish, altruistic and everything in between exist in both dental and nondental medical professions. however, there is something i personnaly find very appealing about the dental folks in general. they tend not to depict themselves as divine professionals on the highest moral compass and then grudgingly try to follow it and live by the entailed standards. dental folks are in general more honest about their interest in a financially secure future and they talk about it. often, the physician expects to be treated with the broadest moral consideration by the general public, when deep inside his/her heart lie all sorts of negative feelings towards the system, the compensation, and even patients!!! if you see physicians providing free healthcare, that does not necessarily mean that they are doing it from the bottom of their angelic hearts; they very well might, but then again it may be because they have to live up to the godly image they had created for themselves among the public. dentists on the other hand as a group never claimed to be prophets or divine individuals out there to lead people into the light. this is just my personal take on this. i do not mean to offend anybody on here.

 

[Ypo.]

Ten years and you can't afford 25 bucks a month for out of pocket dental coverage? I bet you have a cell phone or internet service though right?

I go and get my regular cleanings. Here at my school I can get a dental program that offers me two cleanings a year and fillings and extractions. But I prefer to just pay for it out of pocket because the dental office that is covered through the insurance does really poor quality work.

I paid $4,000 for braces in cash, and yes, I recieved a professional discount. I didn't EXPECT anything. I worked my ass off to pay for it, even though at the time I'm sure I would have qualified for free dental care. And btw, no, at the time I did not have an internet connection although I did have a cellphone (my only phone). However, I have many neighbours who can not afford such 'luxuries' as most people on this thread seem to view them. And it was out of concern for those people that I posted my original question here.

 

[Ypo.]

why do i have this little feeling that the true purpose of your initial post might very well not be "just curious about what the general sentiment is in the professional dental world"? are you by any chance secretly hoping that one day physicians would be absolved from the moral obligation of providing free labor or from the necessity of accepting insurance? (no offense....real question here).

Nope, my question is exactly what I stated. And quite honestly I have no idea how you jumped from it to your above question.

If you are trying to find out what my personal beliefs on social health care are, including dental care, I believe it's a burden to be shared by everyone-not just the doctors, not just the dentists, not just the rich or middleclass or poor.

 

[scalpel2008]

Nope, my question is exactly what I stated. And quite honestly I have no idea how you jumped from it to your above question.

If you are trying to find out what my personal beliefs on social health care are, including dental care, I believe it's a burden to be shared by everyone-not just the doctors, not just the dentists, not just the rich or middleclass or poor.

are implying that socialized medicine will solve these problems? How about holding the individual responsible for their own healthcare when appropriate? How about smoking, nutrition, birth control, and exercise? I strongly disagree that society needs to bear the burden of stupid decisions.

 

[gryffindor]

I go and get my regular cleanings. Here at my school I can get a dental program that offers me two cleanings a year and fillings and extractions. But I prefer to just pay for it out of pocket because the dental office that is covered through the insurance does really poor quality work.

I paid $4,000 for braces in cash, and yes, I recieved a professional discount. I didn't EXPECT anything. I worked my ass off to pay for it, even though at the time I'm sure I would have qualified for free dental care. And btw, no, at the time I did not have an internet connection although I did have a cellphone (my only phone). However, I have many neighbours who can not afford such 'luxuries' as most people on this thread seem to view them. And it was out of concern for those people that I posted my original question here.

This is a quote right out of my orthodontic text book: "Since no one dies of untreated malocclusion, from that perspective orthodontic treatment always is elective." (Proffit, William R. Contemporary Orthodontics, 3rd Edition. Elsevier, 1999.)

 

[Ypo.]

are implying that socialized medicine will solve these problems? How about holding the individual responsible for their own healthcare when appropriate? How about smoking, nutrition, birth control, and exercise? I strongly disagree that society needs to bear the burden of stupid decisions.

That's a slippery slope you're on.

 

[Ypo.]

This is a quote right out of my orthodontic text book: "Since no one dies of untreated malocclusion, from that perspective orthodontic treatment always is elective." (Proffit, William R. Contemporary Orthodontics, 3rd Edition. Elsevier, 1999.)

I agree with that. I just brought up the braces because someone else implied I was too cheap to take care of my teeth.

I do think that filling gaps created by missing teeth is important for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[capisce?]

I agree with that. I just brought up the braces because someone else implied I was too cheap to take care of my teeth.

You just made the point that everyone else was trying to make. You chose to save and pay for braces because it was something you valued. Having straight teeth was worth it to you, so I'm sure you sacrificed things along the way to afford treatment.

*Most* people out there could afford treatment if they valued it. Unfortunately, most people value their cell phones and car payments more than their teeth? Then when things get bad enough to cause pain they wave their arms in the air asking where their handouts are. Again, I'm not referring to patients who truly can't afford it. The reason they aren't getting care deals with medicaid in dentistry, which is an entirely separate issue.

As far as your original post, I ask you a simple question. How do you make a generalization about the # of dentists volunteering. Do you have actual statistics? If so, I would like the source. Are you judging it by other things? Just because there are untreated people in our society isn't a reflection of our willingness to give back to society. If you made that leap then your original statement can't ever hold water.

I meet quite a few med residents in my residency, most of whom are complete egostical pricks. Should I post in the MD forums asking why all med residents are a-holes?