Why did dental schools shut down?

[crazy4clana]

Just wondering over the past years why really good dental schools were shut down like Northwestern, Loyola, SLU...Why? There's already a shortage I was just wondering why.

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[TheWiredNerv]

usually it is financial circumstances. My opthamologist from Emory said the Emory dent school closed down because they weren't producing too great of dentists so they got the axe.

 

[Logjammin]

Just wondering over the past years why really good dental schools were shut down like Northwestern, Loyola, SLU...Why? There's already a shortage I was just wondering why.

Emory (not on your list) was an excellent dental school back in the day. They shut down in the late 80s due to lack of funding and plagued by falling enrollment. This of course would have never happened now that there are plenty of qualified applicants and a much higher demand for dental health care. A lot of private insitutions were shut down as a result of competition with state funded public dental schools.

 

[Composite A2]

Plus its expensive to keep a dental school running, especially if there are problems with it. Think about all the facilites and equipement required to run a dental school as opposed to that of a medical school. With medicine you have the students go to regular lecture classes and when its time have them shipped of to some hospital for clinical experiencem, very cheap system. As opposed to having chairs, lights, drills, etc. all housed in the school.

I also think Georgetown had a dental school, did it not?

 

[crazy4clana]

Huh, thanks. It seems so odd now that dentistry is so competitive, everyone would be scrambling to get those seats!

 

[mbgandh]

yeah emory DS started just hauling out crappy dentists around the time they got chopped. buts its due to finances usually.

Georgetown Dental would be awesome to go to, they need another Dental School in DC

I think GWU should open up a dental school. and University of Miami. something private in chicago would be sick too.

 

[Logjammin]

yeah emory DS started just hauling out crappy dentists around the time they got chopped.

That is mis-information, a myth people seem to spread about the school. Emory was shut down for other reasons. See my post above.

 

[gyzeus]

Just wondering over the past years why really good dental schools were shut down like Northwestern, Loyola, SLU...Why? There's already a shortage I was just wondering why.

Is there a shortage of dentists??
I always find this statement hard to understand because you see a dental clinic on every single block.

Think of the other kinds of specialties in medicine.. If you look in the yellow pages you only see a handful of derms, opthalo, oncology, gyn and even family physicians.. but then when you go to the dental section you just see a never-ending, long list of hundreds and hundreds of dental clinics...

 

[MacGyver]

Is there a shortage of dentists??
I always find this statement hard to understand because you see a dental clinic on every single block.

Think of the other kinds of specialties in medicine.. If you look in the yellow pages you only see a handful of derms, opthalo, oncology, gyn and even family physicians.. but then when you go to the dental section you just see a never-ending, long list of hundreds and hundreds of dental clinics...

The average dentist makes more than the average doctor (with fewer years of schooling to boot) so you have nothing to be complaining about.

 

[jigabodo]

Is there a shortage of dentists??
I always find this statement hard to understand because you see a dental clinic on every single block.

Think of the other kinds of specialties in medicine.. If you look in the yellow pages you only see a handful of derms, opthalo, oncology, gyn and even family physicians.. but then when you go to the dental section you just see a never-ending, long list of hundreds and hundreds of dental clinics...

There are approx. 6,000 dentists retiring every year with only 4,500 newly grads coming into the field.

Also, there are about 3 times as many medical schools (MD + DO) here in the States compared to dental schools.

 

[crazy4clana]

Is there a shortage of dentists??
I always find this statement hard to understand because you see a dental clinic on every single block.

I meant a shortage of dental schools. There's only about 50 wheras theres 160 or more med schools not including DO and Carribean.

 

[rkamsterdam]

I meant a shortage of dental schools. There's only about 50 wheras theres 160 or more med schools not including DO and Carribean.

doctors are certainly in greater demand per capita than dentists. So its irrational to compare them on a 1:1 basis.

There may be a shortage of dental schools, but based on your reason (amt of applicants) there is a way shorter supply of medical schools. So your logic is somewhat contradictory.

Since the late eighties when these schools closed, the tide seems to have turned. New schools like ASDOH, midwestern, UNLV have been created and more are prolly in development. So, the ada and state governments are working to solve the looming problem of a dentist shortage.

With that being said, I think the shortage of dentist supply is a good thing (for us admitted) because it keeps pt's in our chairs, schedules booked, and overall our business models succeeding.

 

[crazy4clana]

I was just saying, statisically speaking, it's almost harder to get into dentistry than med school because of the limited number of schools. There are about 200 medical schools you can apply to comparable to 50 dental schools around the country. I'm not talking about shortage of doctors and dentists, I'm talking about the shortage of schools.

 

[rkamsterdam]

1. I was just saying, statisically speaking, it's almost harder to get into dentistry than med school because of the limited number of schools.

2.There are about 200 medical schools you can apply to comparable to 50 dental schools around the country.

3.I'm not talking about shortage of doctors and dentists, I'm talking about the shortage of schools.

My questions for you are

1. Why must med school be more difficult than dental school to get into?

2. Do you not understand that there is a greater per capita need for doctors compared with dentists?

3. Wouldn't the shortage of dental schools and the shortage of dentists be directly correlated?

 

[crazy4clana]

1. Med schools are generally harder to get into, in my opinion, because it requires a little more responsibility and hardwork to become a physican over a dentist just because dentistry is so specialized into one area of medicine. It's the fact that med schools only want the best and the brightest because they want the best possible statistics for their school. Dental school, although not at all less stressful, is a little less demanding in my opinion and have more lenient admissions. I don't know if I make sense or if I am directly answering your question but it's the best answer I can give.

2. Yes there is a greater capita per need for doctors than dentists but more often than not, a dedicated student will get into med school somehow if they either go DO, which IMO is easier to get into than dental, or go to the Carribean.

3. Shortage of schools doesn't directly correlate to shortage of dentists, my main point is that there are more limitations. Shortage of dentists can also be caused my dental students who drop out, don't graduate, change careers, ect.

 

[rkamsterdam]

wow. You surely present a unique/somewhat ignorant and offensive/inferior viewpoint.

 

[1992Corolla]

1. Med schools are generally harder to get into, in my opinion, because it requires a little more responsibility and hardwork to become a physican over a dentist just because dentistry is so specialized into one area of medicine. It's the fact that med schools only want the best and the brightest because they want the best possible statistics for their school. Dental school, although not at all less stressful, is a little less demanding in my opinion and have more lenient admissions. I don't know if I make sense or if I am directly answering your question but it's the best answer I can give.

2. Yes there is a greater capita per need for doctors than dentists but more often than not, a dedicated student will get into med school somehow if they either go DO, which IMO is easier to get into than dental, or go to the Carribean.

3. Shortage of schools doesn't directly correlate to shortage of dentists, my main point is that there are more limitations. Shortage of dentists can also be caused my dental students who drop out, don't graduate, change careers, ect.

1. Have you started school yet? How would you know which one is more stressful? Just curious. Both schools are stressful in thier own right. You'll see when you have biochem/micro and anatomy tests in one week and you have a couple of gold crowns to wax and cast. I am pretty sure there are mediocre students in both professions. Just because you are a medical or dental student doesn't mean you are he best and the brightest.
2. DO is just as competitive...this is like saying a DDS school is more difficult to get into than a DMD school, for they are the same degree.???
3. If there were only 5 dental schools would your statement make sense? So going from 70 dental schools down to 55 or so will = shortage of dentists. Why do you think more have been opening up recently? When 6,000 are retiring and schools are graduating 4500 then you will get a shortage over a period of time.

 

[blankguy]

Where do people get 6000 dentists are retiring every year?
I heard that there could be as many as 10 new schools opening up over the next decade. There could be another private one in Florida, and California.

 

[jigabodo]

Where do people get 6000 dentists are retiring every year?
I heard that there could be as many as 10 new schools opening up over the next decade. There could be another private one in Florida, and California.

I read it somewhere on a dental journal before.

It was also mentioned during my MWU interview. I think it was from Dr. Simonsen's presentation.

 

[rkamsterdam]

the decision to build dental schools should not be based on the amount of dental applicants. Doesn't it seem more practical to base this decision on the supply and demand of dentists in the marketplace. So your reasoning for a shortage is void.

Sorry, less than stellar applicants (like yourself, perhaps?) will not get an easy way in.

 

[blissdental]

Also, there are about 3 times as many medical schools (MD + DO) here in the States compared to dental schools.

But you should remember that for medicine, the majority of students specialize so that big chunk of med students are going to be subdivided, competing only with a small number of physicians within their specialty.
In contrast the majority of dental students go into general dentistry.
And when you think about it, even general dentistry is not "general" but it is a subdivision, or kind of like one of the specialties within medicine.
So it's like a great number of students are going into this one specialty.

And it is true that physicians are more in demand compared to dentists. You could find out very easily when you try to book an appointment with a derm, immunologist etc. compared to a dentist. In most cases it would takes days or even weeks to see a physician, while only a day or so to see your dentist.

 

[crazy4clana]

wow. You surely present a unique/somewhat ignorant and offensive/inferior viewpoint.

It's just my opinion, did I say that it was the truth? No. Bow down to dental students who are the mightiest and smartest of all professional school students. And how was I being offensive? Because I said that one profession might be harder than the other or that one saves lives and takes more training/more work? I didn't know dentists went through extra training and residency right after dental school, oh wait, they don't. You need to develop thicker skin if you truly felt that I was offensive, which wasn't even my intent, just my opinion. What year do you live in 1984? 🙄

1. Have you started school yet? How would you know which one is more stressful? Just curious. Both schools are stressful in thier own right. You'll see when you have biochem/micro and anatomy tests in one week and you have a couple of gold crowns to wax and cast. I am pretty sure there are mediocre students in both professions. Just because you are a medical or dental student doesn't mean you are he best and the brightest

I have no idea about dental school, my brother is in medical school though and I know that he had to put in 12+ hours a day just studying for the boards, and yes they also take anatomy, biochem, phyisiology, and pharmocology that are also more indepth than dental school. I heard this from people who went to both dental and medical schools. And yes, I believe that for the most part an applicant that gets accepted into medical school is more competitive than one that gets into dental school. How do I know? Just look at the stats! Preach what you want, but that's what I believe.

2. DO is just as competitive...this is like saying a DDS school is more difficult to get into than a DMD school, for they are the same degree.???
3. If there were only 5 dental schools would your statement make sense? So going from 70 dental schools down to 55 or so will = shortage of dentists. Why do you think more have been opening up recently? When 6,000 are retiring and schools are graduating 4500 then you will get a shortage over a period of time.

You are taking "shortage" way too figuratively and literally. When I said "shortage" I was loosely refering to they're not being many dental schools in the first place, why were so many some closing, that simple.

 

[crazy4clana]

Sorry, less than stellar applicants (like yourself, perhaps?) will not get an easy way in.

Who are you talking about? I was the one that said dental school is harder to get into than medical schools because of the limited number of schools. 🙄

 

[blankguy]

the decision to build dental schools should not be based on the amount of dental applicants. Doesn't it seem more practical to base this decision on the supply and demand of dentists in the marketplace. So your reasoning for a shortage is void.

Sorry, less than stellar applicants (like yourself, perhaps?) will not get an easy way in.

Other factors is state support especially state schools. Note the case of East Carolina. In that case UNC told the state that if you are going to set up another one then you should make us bigger. UNC is getting brand new facilities allowing them to increase class size to 120. Other things are economics of the area. There is no point in setting up a dental school if studies show that the patient pool is going to be lacking. Private support is also another one.
Dental applicants should be one of the factors not the only factor.

 

[blankguy]

I read it somewhere on a dental journal before.

It was also mentioned during my MWU interview. I think it was from Dr. Simonsen's presentation.

I personally think 10 new schools within the next decade is a bit rash.

 

[jigabodo]

Other factors is state support especially state schools. Note the case of East Carolina. In that case UNC told the state that if you are going to set up another one then you should make us bigger. UNC is getting brand new facilities allowing them to increase class size to 120. Other things are economics of the area. There is no point in setting up a dental school if studies show that the patient pool is going to be lacking. Private support is also another one.

Yup. That's why I am a little skeptical about the new dental school that's about to open up in Cali. There are already 3 other dental schools within the greater LA area and the location of the new school doesn't exactly have a large patient population...

 

[blankguy]

Yup. That's why I am a little skeptical about the new dental school that's about to open up in Cali. There are already 3 other dental schools within the greater LA area and the location of the new school doesn't exactly have a large patient population...

The thing about LA is that there is such a large population of poor that they could stick about half a dozen schools and still have enough to go by for each school. People that show up in student clinics are generally low income people who probably come from dumps and don't do a good job taking care of themselves.

 

[rkamsterdam]

Other factors is state support especially state schools. Note the case of East Carolina. In that case UNC told the state that if you are going to set up another one then you should make us bigger. UNC is getting brand new facilities allowing them to increase class size to 120. Other things are economics of the area. There is no point in setting up a dental school if studies show that the patient pool is going to be lacking. Private support is also another one.
Dental applicants should be one of the factors not the only factor.

I think the amount of dental applicants should not be factored or factored very little especially now when there is such an abundance.

 

[blankguy]

I think the amount of dental applicants should not be factored or factored very little especially now when there is such an abundance.

Number of applicants are cyclical. Right now we are at a high point. What if it drops? If there are a lot of schools does this mean that less qualified applicants get into the profession?

 

[jigabodo]

The thing about LA is that there is such a large population of poor that they could stick about half a dozen schools and still have enough to go by for each school. People that show up in student clinics are generally low income people who probably come from dumps and don't do a good job taking care of themselves.

It actually depends on what part of LA. For example, USC isn't exactly in a good neighborhood so I am sure the school will have no problem attracting patients.

However, there are also many parts of LA where the area is flooded by people making 6 figures. These areas are also scarcely populated as well.

 

[rkamsterdam]

Number of applicants are cyclical. Right now we are at a high point. What if it drops? If there are a lot of schools does this mean that less qualified applicants get into the profession?

I think if there was such a shortage in applicants, the ADA should consider incentives.

Plus, I dont believe there is a cut off in DAT/GPA that dictates potential competance in dentistry. Currently, I think there is a superficial inflation of pre-dental stats just as there may be a deflation of stats if there was a shortage in supply. This would not dictate the ability of newly graduated dentists, imo. Do you think the current breed of new dentists will have superior ability compared with veteran dentists currently in practice (whose pre-dental stats arent relatively comparable).

 

[TheWiredNerv]

I think if there was such a shortage in applicants, the ADA should consider incentives.

Plus, I dont believe there is a cut off in DAT/GPA that dictates potential competance in dentistry. Currently, I think there is a superficial inflation of pre-dental stats just as there may be a deflation of stats if there was a shortage in supply. This would not dictate the ability of newly graduated dentists, imo. Do you think the current breed of new dentists will have superior ability compared with veteran dentists currently in practice (whose pre-dental stats arent relatively comparable).

Perhaps technology wise.

 

[jdmsamurai]

i received a flyer in the mail stating that Western University in California is opening a Dental School in 2009. So therefore, it would open for the 09-10 cycle.

 

[SHC1984]

I know what you mean. I don't think there is a shortage at all. If you need a dentist just pick up the phonebook and look one up...its that simple. 🙄

I mean just take North Carolina for example. 81 Dentists graduate EVERY YEAR! how can there be a shortage??? take an exponent to that 81 and you might even get a surplus!

Is there a shortage of dentists??
I always find this statement hard to understand because you see a dental clinic on every single block.

Think of the other kinds of specialties in medicine.. If you look in the yellow pages you only see a handful of derms, opthalo, oncology, gyn and even family physicians.. but then when you go to the dental section you just see a never-ending, long list of hundreds and hundreds of dental clinics...

 

[gryffindor]

yeah emory DS started just hauling out crappy dentists around the time they got chopped. buts its due to finances usually.

Georgetown Dental would be awesome to go to, they need another Dental School in DC

I think GWU should open up a dental school. and University of Miami. something private in chicago would be sick too.

Chicago already had 2 private dental schools that closed - Loyola and Northwestern. Northwestern closed due to $$$ issues. I can't imagine another private school is going to jump at the chance at something that has already failed twice. St. Louis also used to have 2 private schools, Saint Louis University and Washington University, now they have zero. Heck, even Vanderbilt had a dental school in the 1920s, not sure when they closed.

 

[TheWiredNerv]

I know what you mean. I don't think there is a shortage at all. If you need a dentist just pick up the phonebook and look one up...its that simple. 🙄

I mean just take North Carolina for example. 81 Dentists graduate EVERY YEAR! how can there be a shortage??? take an exponent to that 81 and you might even get a surplus!

North Carolina has a major shortage of dentists. That is why they are expanding UNC class size and opening up a new D school in western NC I believe.