Why Did You Choose a DO school over MD schools?

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To dismiss his opinion (which I'm sure is informed) just because he is a "pre-med" and assume he "has no clue" is for lack of a better word stupid

let me make it clear that I would never call somone stupid nor would I ever dismiss anyone's opinion since we all have the right to formulate one. My definition of "no clue" is more naivete than anything. No one can possiblly know what medical school is like until they go and since we only go to one, how can anyone possible have any comparison to any other school? My point is that pre-meds seem to focus their energies worrying about things like the best residencies, board scores, etc before they are even accepted. Worrying about the "quality of rotations" or how many times you have to move, etc when much of those issues and worries are beyond the student's control. The goal of any of my posts is simply trying to keep it real and pulling up that reality check that seems to get lost in the sea of attitudes and unfounded mental anguish.
 
To dismiss his opinion (which I'm sure is informed) just because he is a "pre-med" and assume he "has no clue" is for lack of a better word stupid

let me make it clear that I would never call somone stupid nor would I ever dismiss anyone's opinion since we all have the right to formulate one. My definition of "no clue" is more naivete than anything. No one can possiblly know what medical school is like until they go and since we only go to one, how can anyone possible have any comparison to any other school? My point is that pre-meds seem to focus their energies worrying about things like the best residencies, board scores, etc before they are even accepted. Worrying about the "quality of rotations" or how many times you have to move, etc when much of those issues and worries are beyond the student's control. The goal of any of my posts is simply trying to keep it real and pulling up that reality check that seems to get lost in the sea of attitudes and unfounded mental anguish.
I don't think you really need to apologize... You are completely correct that there are people here offering their vast wisdom on something they themselves have not even come close to experiencing.
 
Not to admittedly say that it doesn't add ethos to my argument when I have attend medical school. But honestly, it doesn't take medical school to know how to read statistics and consensuses held by multiple medical students and attends on this form. But ok, take what I have to say with a grain of salt, comment and prove me wrong, I actually enjoy learning and filling the gaps in the areas I know little about.
 
Suny upstate, while hardly an amazing school, recently matched grads into plastics at Penn, ortho at HSS, and many gsurg and IM at BWH/MGH/Yale, residencies out of reach for DOs.

EDIT: Yale does take DOs for IM....

In one of your previous posts, you complained about how DOs always use "that guy" who went to Mayo and ever since you always use "the other guy" who went somewhere else from a low tier MD school.... These matches are not common on either side and not applicable to the general population of pre-meds/med students.... Sure, if you are dead set on going to MGH, you probably shouldn't go to a DO school but going to a low tier MD school will also be of very little help, if any; and most (as in the vast, vast majority) of people who go to DO or MD (esp. low tier MD) don't end up going to MGH.

Here's a thread about MD/DO radiology applicant experiences this cycle. I think it's worth a read. A chief resident doing selection discusses the issue.

http://www.auntminnie.com/Forum/tm.aspx?&m=339485&mpage=1

U:auntminnie2012
P:reviews

It's also interesting that the two DOs posting on that thread say that it'll be fine and they did OK and it's the MD students/residents/etc. saying how the OP will not match (b/c you know the MDs have so much experience about how DOs do) and sharing their delightful ideas/opinions about DOs....

You still haven't told us what your deal with DOs are though? I mean if you'd just posted once or twice about your experience (n=1) we could've attributed that to you wanting to share your experiences.... But making every thread on SDN about DOs and Radiology? 😕 You forgot to include your famous line about how FMGs do better than DOs in this one though, so you might want to go back and edit it!

Should I preemptively include the NRMP match results again on this thread too?

To dismiss his opinion (which I'm sure is informed) just because he is a "pre-med" and assume he "has no clue" is for lack of a better word stupid. His point was that MDs have a better chance at matching into more established, reputable residency programs (esp. for competitive fields), which for the most part are located in more desirable locations, affiliated with top tier hospitals, and have great fellowship match rates (cards, GI, etc.) etc. etc. I was under the impression this was a pretty established, general rule, and virtually all the MD medical students and pre-allo kids seem to accept it. All the attendings I've spoken to (I work at a hospital) at a reputable NorCal teaching hospital agree with his sentiments (and I am very pro-DO, respect DOs, and considered DO myself). Even the DO attendings (which shocked me) told me to go any MD over DO to maximize my chances. They (DO) are phenomenal physicians BTW. These kinds of stories are commonplace on the pre-allo forum.


Now judging a school by its match list is a poor objective metric in regards to how good the school is, but that's not my point. Someone mentioned that a well established DO school can get their DO students into residency programs AS WELL AS "lower tier" MD applicants, but judging by the match list of well regarded, cream of the crop DO schools like PCOM and Western, I can't say that's true as a general rule. I browsed through several match lists for "lower tier" (unranked, lowest NIH funding) MD schools, looking for matches into competitive residency programs (took a while to research), and the matches for these "lower tier" MDs are generally stronger overall, esp. for competitive fields like ortho, oto, derm, etc. In regards to primary care residencies, the advantage seems to be much smaller. Also, there seems to be a geographical bias for matches (see residency forum), so keep that in mind as well (in other words, stay West if you want to match West, etc.)

You are free to choose whatever career path you want and you should not rely on anything people tell you on SDN (including me).... Take all the information from all sources and make up your mind.... No body is here on SDN recruiting you to go to DO school ... And DO or MD attendings are entitled to their opinions... But just to generalize one attending at one hospital to the entire profession, it doesn't seem fair.... For every DO attending that says go MD, I can find you 2 DO attendings that will tell you the opposite (unfortunately, they don't participate on SDN forums)... Also, pre-allo and allo on SDN are not the authorities on the subject...

Just to be clear, if you go back and read my post, I did say that low tier MD schools do get a slight advantage in competitive specialties... I also said that they get a great advantage at their home program.... Both of which are easily balanced by the availability of AOA positions.... So, for instance, if you exclude all of the Univ. of KS matches from their match list then, their match list is not that different than the DO schools stated above...

Last but not least, the match list is irrelevant... I have friends who ranked community programs oner ivy league programs because that's what they want... The question is whether attending a low tier MD school will give you any great advantages over attending a DO school to the point that would be worth the hardship for someone who for whatever reason prefers the DO school.... And as a DO student (who just matched btw), it is my OPINION that the answer to that question is NO.... Others may disagree....
 
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Not to admittedly say that it doesn't add ethos to my argument when I have attend medical school. But honestly, it doesn't take medical school to know how to read statistics and consensuses held by multiple medical students and attends on this form. So yah, while I you may be correct in stating that I might be naive due to your wisdom, but I am not giving out nuggets of wisdom here, I am simply regurgitating ad nausum statistics that are freely available to all parties. You're free to interpret it as you will, and you're also free to comment directly without making an appeal to authority argumentative fallacy.

But you have to understand that there is a great selection bias on SDN.... Why don't you go on specialty forums and look at the interview lists people post on SDN.... Those are not your average med students.... And not to forget that med students like to b***..... This was obvious during the interview season on SDN.... People were getting interviews at top 10 places then b***ing about how their school's "reputation" limited them from getting the interview at MGH/etc (that's on the MD side if you haven't deduced).... a bit ridiculous...
 
I don't think you really need to apologize... You are completely correct that there are people here offering their vast wisdom on something they themselves have not even come close to experiencing.

Just clearing up and potential misinterpretations of my intentions. As we all know that hindsight is 20/20 and I remember those days of the unknown with fears that were unfounded. But nobody unerstands that until they get to the other side of the journey.
 
http://residency.med.yale.edu/programs/traditional/housestaff.aspx

There are no DOs in IM, one in primary care, for reference there are dozens of low tier MD residents and four IMGs...

EDIT: Yale does take DOs for IM....

In one of your previous posts, you complained about how DOs always use "that guy" who went to Mayo and ever since you always use "the other guy" who went somewhere else from a low tier MD school.... These matches are not common on either side and not applicable to the general population of pre-meds/med students.... Sure, if you are dead set on going to MGH, you probably shouldn't go to a DO school but going to a low tier MD school will also be of very little help, if any; and most (as in the vast, vast majority) of people who go to DO or MD (esp. low tier MD) don't end up going to MGH.



It's also interesting that the two DOs posting on that thread say that it'll be fine and they did OK and it's the MD students/residents/etc. saying how the OP will not match (b/c you know the MDs have so much experience about how DOs do) and sharing their delightful ideas/opinions about DOs....

You still haven't told us what your deal with DOs are though? I mean if you'd just posted once or twice about your experience (n=1) we could've attributed that to you wanting to share your experiences.... But making every thread on SDN about DOs and Radiology? 😕 You forgot to include your famous line about how FMGs do better than DOs in this one though, so you might want to go back and edit it!

Should I preemptively include the NRMP match results again on this thread too?



You are free to choose whatever career path you want and you should not rely on anything people tell you on SDN (including me).... Take all the information from all sources and make up your mind.... No body is here on SDN recruiting you to go to DO school ... And DO or MD attendings are entitled to their opinions... But just to generalize one attending at one hospital to the entire profession, it doesn't seem fair.... For every DO attending that says go MD, I can find you 2 DO attendings that will tell you the opposite (unfortunately, they don't participate on SDN forums)... Also, pre-allo and allo on SDN are not the authorities on the subject...

Just to be clear, if you go back and read my post, I did say that low tier MD schools do get a slight advantage in competitive specialties... I also said that they get a great advantage at their home program.... Both of which are easily balanced by the availability of AOA positions.... So, for instance, if you exclude all of the Univ. of KS matches from their match list then, their match list is not that different than the DO schools stated above...

Last but not least, the match list is irrelevant... I have friends who ranked community programs oner ivy league programs because that's what they want... The question is whether attending a low tier MD school will give you any great advantages over attending a DO school to the point that would be worth the hardship for someone who for whatever reason prefers the DO school.... And as a DO student (who just matched btw), it is my OPINION that the answer to that question is NO.... Others may disagree....
 
I don't think you really need to apologize... You are completely correct that there are people here offering their vast wisdom on something they themselves have not even come close to experiencing.

👍👍
 
. In one of your previous posts, you complained about how DOs always use "that guy" who went to Mayo and ever since you always use "the other guy" who went somewhere else from a low tier MD school.... These matches are not common on either side and not applicable to the general population of pre-meds/med students.... Sure, if you are dead set on going to MGH, you probably shouldn't go to a DO school but going to a low tier MD school will also be of very little help, if any;

DO you just make things up and assume people are going to believe you?

Even low tier MD schools give you vastly better options than any DO school. Here are some notable matches from my med school class (a low tier medical school)

MGH- urology
Johns Hopkins- Medicine
Johns Hopkins- Child Neurology
Johns Hopkins- Pediatrics
Johns Hopkins- Psychiatry
UCSF- Ortho
Duke- Medicine
Duke- Medicine
Duke- Pediatrics
Duke- Path
Cleveland Clinic- ortho
Yale- IM
Mayo clinic x2


Now if you want to compare match lists for any DO school, you will realize, that what you are saying isn't right. The big difference is in the middle of the class. At a DO school, the top of the class will match into mid-tier university programs. At MD schools, the middle of the class matches to mid-tier programs.
 
Lol you totally hate me don't you? Haha

I don’t hate you :meanie:, no really I don’t. I think that you often have good things to say and that you do try to be reasonable , although I might not agree with you all of the time I certainly don’t hate you. I suppose I wasn't very clear in my 🙂thumbup: ). I was directing it at the "You are completely correct that there are people here offering their vast wisdom on something they themselves have not even come close to experiencing" part of the comment.
I think that most of us are guilty of over valuing our experiences/opinions on SDN, and from time to time we all need to realize that nobody on SDN knows as much as they think they do, especially those that are have not even began what they are claiming to know for certain. I am not saying that you can’t have a good grasp on a situation without living it but in all likely hood we will look back at ourselves and say “ I didn’t know ½ crap I thought I did” rather than “ yep I was spot on”.

I wish you well and hope you get into your number one school/residency.
 
Even a blind squrriel can find a nut once in a blue moon.
Blind squirrels have no problems finding nuts. They can SMELL them... sorry, but a rat in the dark can still find food...

Sorry that analogy bugs me.

Anyway, I went with DO (besides all the academic things) because I want to learn OMM. My family wants me to learn OMM, my friends want me to learn OMM. I want to practice family med, my only fear is that in Denver, most of the residencies are controlled by the UC-Denver, who hates RVU (not for why you may think either, it isn't their profit status)... So my concern is being able to get into a residency in Denver when the cards may be stacked against me... however, I looked into the FP residencies, and pretty much every year, every residency has taken at least one DO. So, I am hopeful... Since Denver has so few slots, it seems to me to be more competitive, even for FP/IM, etc than some other areas.... but it is what it is, I am accepted, and I am excited/terrified!
 
This thread is STILL alive? With the same BS flying back and forth too!
 
Well that is a very good reason to go DO then. I'm sure you'll be competitive for FM residencies, even regionally, there's always a lot of spots open after the match so many don't fill, plus DOs are well-suited for FP with OMM and a primary care focus.

Blind squirrels have no problems finding nuts. They can SMELL them... sorry, but a rat in the dark can still find food...

Sorry that analogy bugs me.

Anyway, I went with DO (besides all the academic things) because I want to learn OMM. My family wants me to learn OMM, my friends want me to learn OMM. I want to practice family med, my only fear is that in Denver, most of the residencies are controlled by the UC-Denver, who hates RVU (not for why you may think either, it isn't their profit status)... So my concern is being able to get into a residency in Denver when the cards may be stacked against me... however, I looked into the FP residencies, and pretty much every year, every residency has taken at least one DO. So, I am hopeful... Since Denver has so few slots, it seems to me to be more competitive, even for FP/IM, etc than some other areas.... but it is what it is, I am accepted, and I am excited/terrified!
 
To dismiss his opinion (which I'm sure is informed) just because he is a "pre-med" and assume he "has no clue" is for lack of a better word stupid

let me make it clear that I would never call somone stupid nor would I ever dismiss anyone's opinion since we all have the right to formulate one. My definition of "no clue" is more naivete than anything. No one can possiblly know what medical school is like until they go and since we only go to one, how can anyone possible have any comparison to any other school? My point is that pre-meds seem to focus their energies worrying about things like the best residencies, board scores, etc before they are even accepted. Worrying about the "quality of rotations" or how many times you have to move, etc when much of those issues and worries are beyond the student's control. The goal of any of my posts is simply trying to keep it real and pulling up that reality check that seems to get lost in the sea of attitudes and unfounded mental anguish.

Thanks for clarifying cabinbuilder, your comment seemed condescending, at least that's how I interpreted it and could easily be interpreted. And to be clear on my side, I wasn't calling you stupid, but rather the comment/idea itself. But as serenade was saying, even if you don't attend medical school, you can extrapolate trends from data, etc. Also, asking attendings and residents helps too.

You are right about the mental anguish, but with the boom in new MD and esp. DO schools (and FMG) and relatively stagnant residency spots, new healthcare policies, death of Stafford loans, unsustainable social/healthcare programs, higher interest rates on loans than previous generations, peak oil, stagflation...well comparing your situation and ours is like comparing apples to oranges...a little different, with a lot more stress. You can't blame us neurotic pre-meds for wanting to maximize our chances :laugh:
 
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EDIT: Yale does take DOs for IM....

In one of your previous posts, you complained about how DOs always use "that guy" who went to Mayo and ever since you always use "the other guy" who went somewhere else from a low tier MD school.... These matches are not common on either side and not applicable to the general population of pre-meds/med students.... Sure, if you are dead set on going to MGH, you probably shouldn't go to a DO school but going to a low tier MD school will also be of very little help, if any; and most (as in the vast, vast majority) of people who go to DO or MD (esp. low tier MD) don't end up going to MGH.



It's also interesting that the two DOs posting on that thread say that it'll be fine and they did OK and it's the MD students/residents/etc. saying how the OP will not match (b/c you know the MDs have so much experience about how DOs do) and sharing their delightful ideas/opinions about DOs....

You still haven't told us what your deal with DOs are though? I mean if you'd just posted once or twice about your experience (n=1) we could've attributed that to you wanting to share your experiences.... But making every thread on SDN about DOs and Radiology? 😕 You forgot to include your famous line about how FMGs do better than DOs in this one though, so you might want to go back and edit it!

Should I preemptively include the NRMP match results again on this thread too?



You are free to choose whatever career path you want and you should not rely on anything people tell you on SDN (including me).... Take all the information from all sources and make up your mind.... No body is here on SDN recruiting you to go to DO school ... And DO or MD attendings are entitled to their opinions... But just to generalize one attending at one hospital to the entire profession, it doesn't seem fair.... For every DO attending that says go MD, I can find you 2 DO attendings that will tell you the opposite (unfortunately, they don't participate on SDN forums)... Also, pre-allo and allo on SDN are not the authorities on the subject...

Just to be clear, if you go back and read my post, I did say that low tier MD schools do get a slight advantage in competitive specialties... I also said that they get a great advantage at their home program.... Both of which are easily balanced by the availability of AOA positions.... So, for instance, if you exclude all of the Univ. of KS matches from their match list then, their match list is not that different than the DO schools stated above...

Last but not least, the match list is irrelevant... I have friends who ranked community programs oner ivy league programs because that's what they want... The question is whether attending a low tier MD school will give you any great advantages over attending a DO school to the point that would be worth the hardship for someone who for whatever reason prefers the DO school.... And as a DO student (who just matched btw), it is my OPINION that the answer to that question is NO.... Others may disagree....

To be fair, my comment was not directed at you and the matter has been resolved.

In regards to the last point you make, if I had family, a spouse/long-term girlfriend, and a reputable, well established DO school nearby versus an unranked MD school in the boonies with the only diversity being the token URM minority, I would consider going to the DO school, because quality of life for 4 years plus regional bias and ease of regional rotations, and support network...these are important factors for me. But that's just me, and I have no plans to go into ortho or rads onc or academic medicine.
 
This thread has really generated into a joke of sorts. You've got people referencing anecdotal evidence, putting down professions and making assumptions. It's a little sad to see this degenerating into such a wordy mess.

And referring the Auntminnie.com post in regards to one of the most competitive residencies in medicine is such a useless gesture. And the fact that someone said they got 'discouraged' because of it really grinds me. It's just people with no experience commenting on stigmas, with DO's posting and saying that it isn't anywhere near as bad.

And AOA is always an option. Limited options are pretty apparent for radiology (unless you're willing to live in MI or OH) but it looks like NY and CA have a few programs as well.

All I'm saying is that this thread is getting a little too exaggerated. Why are so many people outside the fold of this conversation making it into something it isn't?
 
Let's see if the kiddies will play nice today...
 
I keep tabs on this thread solely to see how ridiculous it is getting. I must admit, I'm feeling a little disappointed that nothing has been posted since this morning.
*kicks rocks while staring at the ground before an uncomfortable exit.....
 
It's not as simple as a MD vs. DO thing...there are a lot of factors like location, principles, etc

I could have gone to two MD schools in the East Coast, but I'm going to a lot more happy staying in SoCal and going to Western. It's not simply picking a school only because they will give you the letters MD in your degree, even though it may seem like that for many premeds out there 😛

Bottom line go to the school that meets your needs and keeps you happy.
 
It's not as simple as a MD vs. DO thing...there are a lot of factors like location, principles, etc

I could have gone to two MD schools in the East Coast, but I'm going to a lot more happy staying in SoCal and going to Western. It's not simply picking a school only because they will give you the letters MD in your degree, even though it may seem like that for many premeds out there 😛

Bottom line go to the school that meets your needs and keeps you happy.


AGREED! I'm having a really hard time deciding between an MD school in Chicago where I will have to endure the snow and crazy unpredictable weather, but may have an easier journey to match to a competitive specialty (given that I work my butt off) and will be recognized by more international countries than a DO (DOs can also practice abroad, but are limited in their scope of practice is some places)... or Western, where the sun is always shining, most matches are in Cali (the ideal location for me), and the other applicants were more welcoming. It really is more than just the two initials that come after the name. It's the location, proximity to family/friends/support, interest in specialty, desire to learn OMM etc. It's all about personal preference due to a variety of factors and shouldn't be based on ignorant people's opinions. You are all future physicians and you should be open minded and educate yourself! After shadowing 7 docs, both MDs and DOs, the more personable ones I shadowed were in fact DOs! Just like society in general, you will always find good and bad docs regardless of the initials behind their names. MDs and DOs may not be equivalent with their curriculum (as DOs have an extra modality to learn, and may have an upper hand on the understanding of anatomy), but each medical student, whether DO or MD has the potential to be an awesome doctor. It depends on the individual! Choose a school based on what the program offers and what will ultimately make you happiest! Comparing tuition doesn't hurt either!
 
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Why Poly?! Let this thread RIP! 😉
 
Bottom line end all: go to where you think you'll be mostly likely to score strongest on your boards. MD institutions (generally) have much more resources to educate you... though they're not always used. But then again, if you'd be happier in an area that happens to correspond with a DO school, that happiness can be a huge difference in how much studying vs moping you do.

Pick based on where you have the best chance to succeed. Match lists and affiliations mean little when you're not carrying around the scores to do anything with those resources.
 
Bottom line end all: go to where you think you'll be mostly likely to score strongest on your boards. MD institutions (generally) have much more resources to educate you... though they're not always used. But then again, if you'd be happier in an area that happens to correspond with a DO school, that happiness can be a huge difference in how much studying vs moping you do.

Pick based on where you have the best chance to succeed. Match lists and affiliations mean little when you're not carrying around the scores to do anything with those resources.

👍
 
I cant believe people still argue about this crap. DOs wont match as well as MDs END OF STORY.
 
This thread is getting really annoying. If you are wishing to practice as a hospitalist, private group, basically something that is non-academic, MD/DO really does not matter. By the way there are DO academic posts that require AOA specialty board certification.

If you would like to devote greater that 50% of your time to research/academics (and settle for less income though this is really inconsequential for most people) then by all means work your way towards a program with tons of NIH funding.
 
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