Why did you decide on medicine?

[innerout]

To the psychiatrists out there.

I'm a rising senior at Dartmouth, and after taking some time off for personal issues, I've developed an interest in going into psychiatry. After some research into medical school/residency life, I realize that I need to have a solid, unwavering, convincing (at least for myself) reason to apply to medical school. I have friends who go off to Africa and volunteer at clinics, do all this intense stuff that makes them seem to absolutely love medicine--but honestly I would not think to do such a thing. I would only do research in a lab in the United States or shadow physicians (which I've done before and enjoyed). Sometimes it seems like the general sentiment is that for someone to get into a good medical school and succeed there, you have to be totally in love with medicine.

Do you guys think this is true? Would you think that interest in a certain specialty is good enough to go to medical school (though realizing there's good chance people change specialties)?

I'm curious as to what your initial sentiments were towards medicine (and thus why you went to medical school) Thanks, appreciate any insight

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[NYCMS2]

To the psychiatrists out there.

I'm a rising senior at Dartmouth, and after taking some time off for personal issues, I've developed an interest in going into psychiatry. After some research into medical school/residency life, I realize that I need to have a solid, unwavering, convincing (at least for myself) reason to apply to medical school. I have friends who go off to Africa and volunteer at clinics, do all this intense stuff that makes them seem to absolutely love medicine--but honestly I would not think to do such a thing. I would only do research in a lab in the United States or shadow physicians (which I've done before and enjoyed). Sometimes it seems like the general sentiment is that for someone to get into a good medical school and succeed there, you have to be totally in love with medicine.

Do you guys think this is true? Would you think that interest in a certain specialty is good enough to go to medical school (though realizing there's good chance people change specialties)?

I'm curious as to what your initial sentiments were towards medicine (and thus why you went to medical school) Thanks, appreciate any insight

Just an MS3 myself, but I think people who apply to med school with one particular specialty in mind are foolish. For instance, how much time have you spent researching psychology vs psychiatry? Knowing what I know now, I think the psychology route is preferable to the MD route in terms of what you learn, the work, the lifestyle, and the stressfulness of the path.

Medicine (IM) is miserable. Yet it is the core rotation in med school, and it is the precursor for a bunch of IM subspecialties. Make sure you understand exactly what medicine is all about before deciding you want to go to medical school to become a shrink - there are easier ways to arrive at the same place that don't involve medical school.

 

[notdeadyet]

I would echo NYCs comments somewhat. There are a small percentage of psychiatrist who enter medical school focused on specialty. Psychiatry is very different than psychology. It has a very different mindset, and a very different approach to mental illness.

Given the differences, I would be very hesitant to endorse medical school, for anyone who doesn't have a drive to practice medicine. To succeed in medical school, I think requires an ability to embrace medicine as a whole. You need to ultimately be someone who wants to cure illness. This requires some knowledge of biology, chemistry, and whole a lot of science that is not required for psychology.

My opinion may be a minority, but my view of psychiatry is that you are essentially just like any other physician. The only difference is that your particular illness of interest, happens to be mental health.

If you are not able to embrace that, if you are not interested in becoming a physician who happens to be interested in mental health, I would think long and hard before pursuing a degree in medicine.

 

[NYCMS2]

I would echo NYCs comments somewhat. There are a small percentage of psychiatrist who enter medical school focused on specialty. Psychiatry is very different than psychology. It has a very different mindset, and a very different approach to mental illness.

Given the differences, I would be very hesitant to endorse medical school, for anyone who doesn't have a drive to practice medicine. To succeed in medical school, I think requires an ability to embrace medicine as a whole. You need to ultimately be someone who wants to cure illness. This requires some knowledge of biology, chemistry, and whole a lot of science that is not required for psychology.

My opinion may be a minority, but my view of psychiatry is that you are essentially just like any other physician. The only difference is that your particular illness of interest, happens to be mental health.

If you are not able to embrace that, if you are not interested in becoming a physician who happens to be interested in mental health, I would think long and hard before pursuing a degree in medicine.

I like the way you put it in the underlined. Actually what I was trying to convey.

Go to medical school to become a physician, and make sure you understand (and embrace) the entirety of that long and arduous path.

 

[TexasPhysician]

MS3 did it for me.

I started 100% EM.
2nd year - Derm.
3rd year started with Radiology, and then I discovered psych was amazing.

 

[tobi44]

To the psychiatrists out there.

I'm a rising senior at Dartmouth, and after taking some time off for personal issues, I've developed an interest in going into psychiatry. After some research into medical school/residency life, I realize that I need to have a solid, unwavering, convincing (at least for myself) reason to apply to medical school. I have friends who go off to Africa and volunteer at clinics, do all this intense stuff that makes them seem to absolutely love medicine--but honestly I would not think to do such a thing. I would only do research in a lab in the United States or shadow physicians (which I've done before and enjoyed). Sometimes it seems like the general sentiment is that for someone to get into a good medical school and succeed there, you have to be totally in love with medicine.

Do you guys think this is true? Would you think that interest in a certain specialty is good enough to go to medical school (though realizing there's good chance people change specialties)?

I'm curious as to what your initial sentiments were towards medicine (and thus why you went to medical school) Thanks, appreciate any insight

MSII here. You don't have to go to Africa to volunteer if you want to do medicine, many pre-meds don't do intense stuff like that. People can explore their interest in different ways. If you enjoy research in a biomedical lab and like to shadow doctors then I think that shows a certain level of interest. I would just say to spend some more time volunteering in local clinics ect to flesh it out. I wasn't a super pre-med in undergrad but I still knew I wanted to be a doctor. Actually, I wan't so much in love with medicine. I just I couldn't really think of anything else I could see myself doing.

 

[nitemagi]

I don't think you have to be "in love" with medicine. In fact I think it's healthier to recognize from the beginning its limitations and problems, yet still want to do it because other career paths don't seem as appealing. Better to NOT romanticize it, to prevent yourself from a hard fall when you realize the truth. Be honest, but be sure. What admissions committees want to know is that you've thought it through, as you're committing to at least 7 years of your life. Applying on what appears to be a whim worries people because then there's a concern you might drop out once the going gets tough (and it will).

 

[sunlioness]

I am so totally not in love with medicine or psychiatry. Fortunately I'm not in hate with it either.

 

[hamstergang]

You see so little of psychiatry in medical school that if you don't enjoy medicine as a field or don't find it interesting, I don't know how you can stay happy and focused enough to graduate.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

It's a shame how internal medicine is taught in this country. It made me hate it. If I had a choice of picking up trash in a park barefoot vs being a medical student or resident in internal medicine, I would gladly pick up trash in a park.

Luckily, I still enjoy picking up medicine books and teaching myself.

 

[nitemagi]

Just an MS3 myself, but I think people who apply to med school with one particular specialty in mind are foolish. For instance, how much time have you spent researching psychology vs psychiatry? Knowing what I know now, I think the psychology route is preferable to the MD route in terms of what you learn, the work, the lifestyle, and the stressfulness of the path.

Medicine (and psychiatry in particular) I believe is what you make of it. It can be a crappy lifestyle for a long while, but your breadth and depth of knowledge can exceed (IMO, not trying to cause a flame war) that of psychologists if you don't stop at the minimum, the lifestyle after training is very good, the pay is much better than psychologists, and the opportunities are much broader. Looking at the long term picture it's a much safer career choice, just with a decent amount of deferred gratification.

 

[Bartelby]

Medicine (and psychiatry in particular) I believe is what you make of it. It can be a crappy lifestyle for a long while, but your breadth and depth of knowledge can exceed (IMO, not trying to cause a flame war) that of psychologists if you don't stop at the minimum, the lifestyle after training is very good, the pay is much better than psychologists, and the opportunities are much broader. Looking at the long term picture it's a much safer career choice, just with a decent amount of deferred gratification.

Seconded.

That said, if you know therapy is all you want to do psychology can be a really rewarding path and starting your own private practice can create a very nice lifestyle for you. One psychologist I worked with in medical school did just that, runs his own office (doing the scheduling, billing, etc.) and it is a sweet setup. He schedules with online calendars, accepts credit cards with his iPad, and found a place that rents for like $300/mo in a building with other practitioners. He operates with virtually no overhead, is darn good at what he does, and leads a great lifestyle of balance between time with his family and doing the therapy that he loves to do. Your mileage may vary, but many paths can work out great if you make the commitment to excel at them.

 

[NYCMS2]

Medicine (and psychiatry in particular) I believe is what you make of it. It can be a crappy lifestyle for a long while, but your breadth and depth of knowledge can exceed (IMO, not trying to cause a flame war) that of psychologists if you don't stop at the minimum, the lifestyle after training is very good, the pay is much better than psychologists, and the opportunities are much broader. Looking at the long term picture it's a much safer career choice, just with a decent amount of deferred gratification.

My intended point to the OP was that if as an undergrad he is interested in 'psychiatry' and not medicine in general that he should thoroughly examine psychology. Not saying this is true of the OP, but my guess is that most lay people envision psychiatrists as therapists a la Freud, straight out of central casting.

As I and others are pointing out, one must want to become a physician to go through the internal medicine gauntlet (with more of that fun to come in residency) if you choose to attend medical school. Applying to medical school with a narrow career focus seems like a very bad idea to me; in the OP's case, it is a little late to figure out you hate medical school once you are in the middle of it, especially when he could have pursued an easier mental health professional path. Not that the paths are interchangeable, but for the OP, the question is what about psychiatry interests him? Has he also looked at psychologists?

Go to medical school because you are drawn to medicine; figure out the details later.

Finally, maybe because I am presently in the middle of my IM rotation my feelings are a bit raw, but I really hate it, and everybody around me feels the same way, including the residents...so damn toxic.

 

[innerout]

My intended point to the OP was that if as an undergrad he is interested in 'psychiatry' and not medicine in general that he should thoroughly examine psychology. Not saying this is true of the OP, but my guess is that most lay people envision psychiatrists as therapists a la Freud, straight out of central casting.

As I and others are pointing out, one must want to become a physician to go through the internal medicine gauntlet (with more of that fun to come in residency) if you choose to attend medical school. Applying to medical school with a narrow career focus seems like a very bad idea to me; in the OP's case, it is a little late to figure out you hate medical school once you are in the middle of it, especially when he could have pursued an easier mental health professional path. Not that the paths are interchangeable, but for the OP, the question is what about psychiatry interests him? Has he also looked at psychologists?

Go to medical school because you are drawn to medicine; figure out the details later.

Finally, maybe because I am presently in the middle of my IM rotation my feelings are a bit raw, but I really hate it, and everybody around me feels the same way, including the residents...so damn toxic.

Thank you, I appreciate the honesty. I want to realize as fully as possible what medical school requires before embarking on a decade-long, goodbye-to-20s journey. I thought about psychology vs. psychiatry, and to be very frank, I'd rather have an MD than a phD, and have the freedom (to research, teach, practice, etc). I also analyzed my personality strengths, and believe that in the long run psychiatry would be an excellent fit for me. I've been very careful to not choose a path based solely on "passion for medicine" or something totally abstract. Doesn't passion for anything run out after a while? And with that (I'm totally hypothesizing please correct me), is that why a lot of med students run out of fuel because of the time and personal demands of med school that just sap that passion?

What could someone do in order to help decide whether medicine is what s/he's interested in? Shadowing is such a broad term, and seems you aren't really doing much except observing. What things should someone watch out for and keep in mind to see if medicine is right?

 

[Leo Aquarius]

As for what someone could do, try to get as much exposure as you can. Find a doctor who will let you work in his or her office for a summer where you can assist with procedures. Talk to as many physicians as you can. Ask the tough questions, most will be glad to share if you ask at the right time. That's what I did. I worked for a GI doctor for two summers and I saw his daily routine, met many patients, felt the stress levels, worked with nurses, talked to administration staff, it was a real wake-up call. Many times I questioned what I was doing, almost walked away from medicine. Get this kind of exposure so you don't end up burning out in med school.

As for what to keep in mind, that matters on where you are in life which changes a lot on age and life progression. Here's my list before med school:
-How much am I fascinated by the work (who cares about lifestyle, I'm single and an overachiever)
-Which specialties will make good money
-How can I save lives and feel like a hero every day
-Surgery seems so amazing, when can I start

After medical school my list is now:
-I discovered where my talents lie in medicine...how can I grow as a person and doctor every day
-I find joy helping people in any way, and it's a privilege to use medical knowledge to do this (doesn't have to be surgery, in fact I much prefer interpersonal interaction)
-How can I make time for my family
-Now I'm older and I value the 9-hour work day (even though many days in residency are 16 hrs)

Write down your list and examine it carefully. I gotta go back to studying for Step 3. Good luck!

 

[surftheiop]

Thank you, I appreciate the honesty. I want to realize as fully as possible what medical school requires before embarking on a decade-long, goodbye-to-20s journey. I thought about psychology vs. psychiatry, and to be very frank, I'd rather have an MD than a phD, and have the freedom (to research, teach, practice, etc). I also analyzed my personality strengths, and believe that in the long run psychiatry would be an excellent fit for me. I've been very careful to not choose a path based solely on "passion for medicine" or something totally abstract. Doesn't passion for anything run out after a while? And with that (I'm totally hypothesizing please correct me), is that why a lot of med students run out of fuel because of the time and personal demands of med school that just sap that passion?

What could someone do in order to help decide whether medicine is what s/he's interested in? Shadowing is such a broad term, and seems you aren't really doing much except observing. What things should someone watch out for and keep in mind to see if medicine is right?

I think if you go into it with the mindset that your "missing your 20's" or "going to miss out on the best part of life" or something like that, then your probably destining yourself to be unhappy. Yes, you will be busy, but if you choose to have a life outside of medschool its certainly possible for the most part. If you expect to be miserable, you will be.


One thing I hear a lot from folks is " Don't do medschool unless you can't imagine doing anything else". But I think this is bad advice for some people, many people likely have multiple careers they could be happy with (or tolerate enough to be happy), if someone thinks medicine is the only possible thing for them, then they probably haven't looked very hard at anything else. So my advice would be don't worry about trying to meet the "can't imagine anything else" criteria that some folks in medicine talk about.

 

[hamstergang]

I thought about psychology vs. psychiatry, and to be very frank, I'd rather have an MD than a phD, and have the freedom (to research, teach, practice, etc).

What freedoms do you have wrt research, teaching, and practice with an MD vs a PhD?

What could someone do in order to help decide whether medicine is what s/he's interested in? Shadowing is such a broad term, and seems you aren't really doing much except observing. What things should someone watch out for and keep in mind to see if medicine is right?

Observing is what you should be doing. Most people don't really know what being a doctor entails. Without shadowing or doing medical school rotations, you don't get a good enough sense of what the doctors do day to day, hour to hour, to know if that's something you'd want to do.

At least that's how I felt. I chose medicine because I thought I would enjoy it and be good at it, but after doing the rotations in med school, I realized that I didn't really have a good enough sense beforehand what goes on in "doctor work." (I still think I enjoy it and am good at it, in case anyone was worried.)

 

[diagonal]

At least that's how I felt. I chose medicine because I thought I would enjoy it and be good at it, but after doing the rotations in med school, I realized that I didn't really have a good enough sense beforehand what goes on in "doctor work." (I still think I enjoy it and am good at it, in case anyone was worried.)

Precisely. And I don't really think there's a way to truly internalize that sentence until you've gone through it. Even when shadowing, you'll always be wondering what's going through the doctor's head. What exactly is it that they know?? After going through the process, I realized that the mental gymnastics are a much different sport than I idealized as a pre-med. That said, I can say similar things about psychiatry. I always overlooked it as a possibility. I was certain I'd be a surgeon. But it just so happens that I like the mental sport of psychiatry far better than anything else in medicine.

Whether you need to love medicine? I don't think so. I went into medical school knowing I had no interest in "medicine". I wanted to be a surgeon. That said, it has indeed been grueling and depressing and many other negative things. But in the end I'll be a physician, I'll enjoy my niche, I'll make a good living, I'll make my mother proud, I'll slay chicks at the clubs, and I'll help people in need.

I've made worse decisions.

 

[surftheiop]

What freedoms do you have wrt research, teaching, and practice with an MD vs a PhD?


Observing is what you should be doing. Most people don't really know what being a doctor entails. Without shadowing or doing medical school rotations, you don't get a good enough sense of what the doctors do day to day, hour to hour, to know if that's something you'd want to do.

At least that's how I felt. I chose medicine because I thought I would enjoy it and be good at it, but after doing the rotations in med school, I realized that I didn't really have a good enough sense beforehand what goes on in "doctor work." (I still think I enjoy it and am good at it, in case anyone was worried.)

I talked to a psychiatrist part of a pretty big research group at my undergrad, and he mentioned that he essentially does 90% the same job as the PhDs in his research group, but gets paid 30 to 50% more, I dont know if this is typical.

 

[innerout]

I think if you go into it with the mindset that your "missing your 20's" or "going to miss out on the best part of life" or something like that, then your probably destining yourself to be unhappy. Yes, you will be busy, but if you choose to have a life outside of medschool its certainly possible for the most part. If you expect to be miserable, you will be.


One thing I hear a lot from folks is " Don't do medschool unless you can't imagine doing anything else". But I think this is bad advice for some people, many people likely have multiple careers they could be happy with (or tolerate enough to be happy), if someone thinks medicine is the only possible thing for them, then they probably haven't looked very hard at anything else. So my advice would be don't worry about trying to meet the "can't imagine anything else" criteria that some folks in medicine talk about.

I suppose, I expect medical school to be crappy because I don't know what to make of medical school reality besides what people say, and one thing people say (and apparently viewers tend to agree on):

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinaz...go-to-medical-school-a-gleefully-biased-rant/

I'm concerned that I won't develop a fiery enough passion for medicine to warrant me confidently applying to med school; in fact, what I really want to do--like those of many people my age, I'd imagine--is to play professional sports. But looking at myself objectively and evaluating my strengths, I do think psychiatry or perhaps another branch of medicine (maybe sports medicine) would in the long run provide many opportunities and be fulfilling because I'd be using my personality strengths.

Of course there are those like you--surftheiop--who for whatever reason are content/happy with med school. Is there anyone reading this who liked medical school but--pardon me for saying this--was generally more or less apathetic towards medicine? How were you able to tolerate med school without going beserk and ranting out in a public blog like the guy above?