MD Why didn't I get any interviews...

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SLM914

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How many low and mid tier schools did you apply to in total? Do you have any red flags (academic dishonesty, alcohol violations, criminal record, anything) that might have come up? How early was "early"? Did you ever fail, withdraw from, or get a D in any science courses over the years? Did you have a downward trend?
 
Have you contacted any of the schools asking for information on the rejections? If at least a few respond to you that could be helpful. You could just be a diamond that slipped through the cracks. What have you been doing during the application season? Perhaps try adding even more of the new and "low-tier" medical schools. Will you be reapplying this year?

How many low and mid tier schools did you apply to in total? Do you have any red flags (academic dishonesty, alcohol violations, criminal record, anything) that might have come up? How early was "early"? Did you ever fail, withdraw from, or get a D in any science courses over the years? Did you have a downward trend?

Reading the application he posted would be helpful.
 
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Have you contacted any of the schools asking for information on the rejections? If at least a few respond to you that could be helpful. You could just be a diamond that slipped through the cracks. What have you been doing during the application season? Perhaps try adding even more of the new and "low-tier" medical schools. Will you be reapplying this year?



Reading the application he posted would be helpful.
Reading through long-ass PDFs on a smartphone is terrible though lol.
 
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Well for one, you're a reapplicant. That hurts you. What state are you from? I'm running all of your school choices through the 'ol LizzyM spreadsheet to see how things look.
 
Well for one, you're a reapplicant. That hurts you. What state are you from? I'm running all of your school choices through the 'ol LizzyM spreadsheet to see how things look.
Yes, but only at 4 schools. If you subtract those, that still leaves 7 or 8..
 
These are all schools you didn’t have much of a chance of being interviewed at to begin with- we'll forget you even bothered applying to them:
Sinai-Long Shot
Hopkins-Long Shot
Emory-Long Shot
Columbia-Long Shot
Yale-Long Shot
University of Michigan-Long Shot
University of Pittsburgh-Long Shot
Brown-Long Shot
Washington University-Long Shot
Cornell-Long Shot
Harvard-Long Shot
Tufts-Long Shot
University of Chicago-Long Shot
NYU-Long Shot
Northwestern-Long Shot
Perelman-Long Shot
Stanford-Long Shot

Which leaves these 15 that you actually had a shot of interviewing at, with three of them being a low shot:
Boston University-Hopeful
Albert Einstein-Hopeful, Low cGPA
Case Western-Hopeful

Of the remaining schools, there are 9 where you stood an average to high chance to getting in:
Rosalind Franklin-Go For It
St Louis U-Go for It, Low cGPA
Temple-Go for It
University of Maryland-Go For It, Low GPA, only 27% OOS accepted
Georgetown-Go For It
Jefferson-Go For It
Loyola-Go For It
Rush-High Chance, but only 28% OOS accepted
NYMC-High Chance
Drexel-High Chance
GWU-High Chance
University of Illinois-High Chance, but only 30% OOS accepted

Your only real red flags are those two withdrawals. Perhaps your explanation of them is your problem. You should have gotten at least one interview out of the schools you actually had a shot at. If your explanation made it sound like if someone were to die while you were in medical school, you might have problems, it could very well have made adcoms leery. Bad things will happen during med school and residency- your loved ones could die, you could become ill, unforeseen troubles could arise, etc. If adcoms walk away with the impression that you cannot handle such events, you will not be interviewed, so I would analyze your explanation for your withdrawals. Also, accommodations are never looked favorably upon- they may view your MCAT as inflated due to seeing that accommodations were required. I am chalking up your lack of interview invites to a fairly top-heavy app and possible questions as to your withdrawals and need for accommodations coupled with a dash of bad luck.

Also keep in mind I'm using an old LizzyM table, and that admissions have gotten more competitive in the last three years, so you are actually less competitive than you appear to be in the above analysis.
 
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Trust me the withdrawals were warranted, it wasn't a grandmother or a sisters uncles brothers cousins. That's all I'll share there.

I have crohns disease. It's not like I got extra time, just a few more bathroom breaks. Plus isn't it illegal to discriminate based on accommodations.
It could be your father, brother, or sister in medical school- you're expected to perform well regardless. And it is only illegal if you can prove the discrimination occurs (which is basically impossible), and only in states where such discrimination is illegal to begin with, as it isn't a federal law. I'm not saying your Chron's doesn't deserve accommodation or that discrimination is right, but at a glance, they see your score and that you had a non-standard administration and a couple withdrawals.

I'm just throwing my ideas out there, there's no way to know exactly why you didn't get in. But these are the things that stand out about your app, so they're what I'm focusing on.
 
Thanks for the help. What a terrible experience this has been.
You can probably get in if you give it another cycle. Just make sure you apply to more lower tier schools, see if you can get an adcom to look over your explanation for your withdrawals to make sure it makes you come across as resilient rather than weak. Put positive spin on it- "Despite the emotional toll the loss of my loved one took on me, I was able to succeed in all of my courses save for two... From these tragic experiences and my battle with Chron's Disease, I have learned to be resilient, even in the most dire of circumstances." or something along those lines- don't portray these experiences as excuses for withdrawals or accommodation, show that what hasn't killed you has made you stronger. Use the LizzyM tool to apply broadly to lower schools- you tried 15 reach schools last cycle, and none of them bit. As a re-applicant with no significant changes in your app, you'll just be pissing away money. Use that cash to instead apply to another 10-15 lower tier schools. If you want to be a physician, don't want to do a fourth cycle, and definitely want to get into medical school this year, you might even want to throw in a couple of the higher "tier" DO schools (PCOM, MSUCOM, NYCOM, RowanSOM, CCOM).

Good luck, and don't lose hope. You can do this!
 
It could be your father, brother, or sister in medical school- you're expected to perform well regardless. And it is only illegal if you can prove the discrimination occurs (which is basically impossible), and only in states where such discrimination is illegal to begin with, as it isn't a federal law. I'm not saying your Chron's doesn't deserve accommodation or that discrimination is right, but at a glance, they see your score and that you had a non-standard administration and a couple withdrawals.

I'm just throwing my ideas out there, there's no way to know exactly why you didn't get in. But these are the things that stand out about your app, so they're what I'm focusing on.
This is the most ridiculous **** I have ever heard. If your parent or sibling die, only a sociopath would be able to sail smoothly. Honestly, I don't believe there could ever be a school that vindictive and inhumane.
 
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You should have gotten plenty interviews. Nature journal publication? Most students barely have any publication if at all. I am very confused. Maybe they see you as more fit for grad school perhaps?
 
You should have gotten plenty interviews. Nature journal publication? Most students barely have any publication if at all. I am very confused. Maybe they see you as more fit for grad school perhaps?

OP clarified that his publications came after he submitted his app. While s/he may have mentioned them in an update letter or two, it's possible many schools passed on the app before seeing them. I still find it puzzling that no IIs were granted.

OP should contact some schools about how to improve his application, sometime after May 15th. He did apply to a few schools that are known to do that sort of thing. Also, if he doesn't get in anywhere this cycle, he should really apply to Ohio State next cycle -- I'm assuming living in Ohio is okay as OP already applied to CWRU this cycle. Our backgrounds are somewhat similar and OSU fast tracked my application. I promise, you can get into medical school if I somehow managed. Also, make sure you don't have a lousy letter of recommendation...but I guess your BU adviser would have told you that?
 
I'm as baffled as everyone else on the thread. 2 Ws aren't going to be lethal. Strongly concur with the advice to contact Admissions deans to get feedback on the rejections. The only other thing I could think of is did something get left out of your app? In case you have't done so already, invest in MSAR Online and apply tot schools whose median numbers are close to your own.
 
Did you say there actually was a "red flag" letter, or just that you are positive there wasn't one?
 
I'm a bit confused how people say something like "you should have gotten at least one interview." If Mad Jack's analysis is right and there are 9 schools the OP has a reasonable shot at an interview, then even if there was a 20% chance she'd get interviewed at each school (which seems kind of high so correct me if I'm wrong) then she still would just get unlucky and go without an interview (0.8)^9 = 13.4% of the time.

That seems kind of nuts that there's just a 13.4% chance OP gets unlucky and gets no interviews and now has to apply as a re-applicant to all those schools (given the above assumptions, of course real numbers are different and no one knows them). I definitely don't want to make excuses for myself or anyone else who didn't get as many II as they'd have hoped, but I feel like people may underestimate how important luck is. Either that or I still just don't fully understand this process.
 
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Alas, I don't. I think Einstein doesn't give out this helpful info.

Any idea which schools are receptive to giving feedback? You think I could send those emails now?


It's not a random process, so you can't use odds as if you're calculating the lottery....even though the process seems that way at times.

I'm a bit confused how people say something like "you should have gotten at least one interview." If Mad Jack's analysis is right and there are 9 schools the OP has a reasonable shot at an interview, then even if there was a 20% chance she'd get interviewed at each school (which seems kind of high so correct me if I'm wrong) then she still would just get unlucky and go without an interview (0.8)^9 = 13.4% of the time.

That seems kind of nuts that there's just a 13.4% chance OP gets unlucky and gets no interviews and now has to apply as a re-applicant to all those schools (given the above assumptions, of course real numbers are different and no one knows them). I definitely don't want to make excuses for myself or anyone else who didn't get as many II as they'd have hoped, but I feel like people may underestimate how important luck is. Either that or I still just don't fully understand this process.
 
Maybe one of the following reasons?(I have not read your actual application since it was taken down)

LOR. Many professors come across nice but only offer generic letters that are not that impressive. Did you chat with them about the letter? I know many professors only give several sentences as a letter of rec. Also, make sure your LOR meets the requirements for the schools you are applying to, some schools do require more.

School list. Your GPA is not as high as it should be for most Ivy or so called "top-tier"schools. Choose your schools accordingly and make sure the theme of your personal statement matches their scope.

Essays. I know you mentioned that your academic advisors and mentors had proof-read them. Did your essays have a central theme on why you want to become a doctor, and what you want to do in the future? For extracurricular, did you mention what you learned from it and how it relates to becoming a good physician? Often times people with excellent application fail to do this part right. If you really enjoy research and only do MD, make sure you can justify why not MD/PhD.

Withdrawal. I think 2Ws are fine since you can justify the reason for having them.

MCAT? I am assuming it is a well-balanced score and not something like 15/4/15.

Other red flags that are not mentioned?

There must be something wrong in your application. Dig through your app again and try to correct them. Good luck!
 
Hi all... I had been posting in the Panic thread and people told me to post here. Here's the summary:

No idea what to do at this point.
34 MCAT (so no point taking it again)
3.5 GPA/3.6 Science GPA (nothing I can do about that)
Tons of research, clinical, non-clinical volunteer etc.
Very good essays and overall application (according to my adviser's at BU and Harvard etc.)
Dr. Ann McKee at BU told me my application was excellent and I should have no problem getting many interviews and several acceptances.
I've been published in Nature, New England Journal of Medicine, and had interviews in NY Times.
Applied to a very broad range of schools. (Not top heavy at all)

I was in a similar boat (very similar grades), except I actually scored a 40 on the MCAT and still didn't get a single interview the first year I applied. I made a similar mistake and only did top of the line schools. The next year when I applied more broadly I still didn't get a ton of interviews, but did gain 3 acceptances to chose from.

One mistake I made my first application cycle was spending my personal statement trying to explain away my flaws (I actually had something a bit worse than 2 W's grades-wise on my transcript). You have to remember to not draw too much attention to such things (especially at the cost of not including other interesting items), unless it is somehow important to your path to medicine.

PM me with your app (identifying content removed) if you'd like me to take a look at it.
 
I think Mad Jack has given you good advice. Tufts may be worth applying to though. Consider adding the newly established medical schools such as Hofstra, Quinnipiac, Oakland Beaumont, Western Michigan, Sacramento Northstate. There are other low mid tier schools you could add like Albany, Rochester, Tulane, Creighton. Of course apply to all your state schools. There is no reason not to apply to several DO schools.
 
Also, look at some of these flyover states like Kentucky, Alabama, Oklahoma, Arkansas etc. They'd be chomping at the bit for someone with your stats and they're pretty darn good schools to boot. You could have easily slipped through the cracks given that list of schools. I also think you'd be competitive for OOS admissions in Texas. It's a second primary but very cheap. Best of luck, OP.
 
I think Mad Jack has given you good advice. Tufts may be worth applying to though. Consider adding the newly established medical schools such as Hofstra, Quinnipiac, Oakland Beaumont, Western Michigan, Sacramento Northstate. There are other low mid tier schools you could add like Albany, Rochester, Tulane, Creighton. Of course apply to all your state schools. There is no reason not to apply to several DO schools.
Northstate did not open.
 
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Alas, I don't. I think Einstein doesn't give out this helpful info.

Any idea which schools are receptive to giving feedback? You think I could send those emails now?


It's not a random process, so you can't use odds as if you're calculating the lottery....even though the process seems that way at times.


Everything has a component of randomness to it. I could apply to the same school 10,000 times and probably get accepted 9000 times and denied 1000 times if I was an ideal applicant there. We can use a Bernoulli trial where the probability of success is modified depending on your stats/fit etc. The resulting binomial distribution where the variable is number of schools accepted to will likely cluster around a mean given enough measurements, which is why you apply to a lot of schools. But there is always a nonzero P(0). And if 500 people measuring a persons height results in a gaussian distribution and not a single consistent value, then I doubt that 500 different interviewers would all come to the same conclusion about an applicant with no variability. So there is a component of randomness.
 
I was wondering when the math major would chime in with an irrelevant comment.

Everything has a component of randomness to it. I could apply to the same school 10,000 times and probably get accepted 9000 times and denied 1000 times if I was an ideal applicant there. We can use a Bernoulli trial where the probability of success is modified depending on your stats/fit etc. The resulting binomial distribution where the variable is number of schools accepted to will likely cluster around a mean given enough measurements, which is why you apply to a lot of schools. But there is always a nonzero P(0). And if 500 people measuring a persons height results in a gaussian distribution and not a single consistent value, then I doubt that 500 different interviewers would all come to the same conclusion about an applicant with no variability. So there is a component of randomness.
 
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I was wondering when the math major would chime in with an irrelevant comment.

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All my publications have come in the last few months so they weren't on my primary.
I hope you have since sent updates to all the schools that had not already rejected you. Your research is very impressive.
 
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I was wondering when the math major would chime in with an irrelevant comment.

When someone says something is not a random process like the lottery but it is, then I refute them. Its like if someone thought diabetes mellitus and diabetes insipidus were the same thing, I would probably correct them if only so that they wouldn't give bad medical advice to others, regardless of whether the distinction applies to them. This is far from irrelevant, knowing that medical school admissions has a random component to it is a big deal for a lot of people. It can be the difference between people having hope that there is a small but significant chance that they slipped through the cracks vs. being 100% sure that they are a failure and shouldn't even bother applying again. I know that you will say that it is irrelevant and if they didn't get in then they should just be bettering themselves anyways, but there is a large mental health component that people always seem to forget about. How do you think the average premed feels who has been rejected from everywhere and is looking at a scary future with 0 prospects if they don't get in to medical school? They have worked for years and now they are not sure if they should just kill themselves and give up or keep going. Often times all it takes is just having that small glimmer of hope to give them the encouragement to keep going. Have you never seen the family of a child who has a very low chance of recovery staying with the child day and night in prayer, hoping for that small percentage chance to be a reality? Or are you the type to callously kick them out and tell them their child is a goner, get out and go home. Sure there are people who just have to get to work and improve their app, but sometimes the best advice you can give someone is to try again and acknowledge that the process has a random component. I have seen this in play, having to encourage someone very close to me that they should just try again, even though they did not make any changes to their app. They ended up getting into multiple schools, and thanking me for the encouragement that convinced them to just try again. But my rant is over now, I should probably get back to real life. SDN takes a pretty big toll on my mental health lol.
 
Congratulations on your interview invite! And wanting to second the advice to Update Letter any school that has not outright rejected you. Odds are slim, but all it takes is one... And if they know you're still available, it might be enough to tip the scale at a school that's not completely happy with it's applicants to date.

If you need to reapply, I think the suggestion to go 'low-tier and new schools' is actually too pessimistic. The 'everybody's safety' schools know who they are, and your application is, on the surface, too strong for them to have a realistic shot at. Plus, they get a huge number of applicants. So for those schools, it's not that you're not good enough, it's that you're not 'good odds of matriculating' -- a deal-killer of another sort. Your numbers are solidly 'good' and your ECs and research sound very strong. I'd aim more 'solid-middle' tier with 'upper mid' as your hopefuls and 'lower mid' as your safeties. Look at the number of applications the school receives and the percentage of OOS students interviewed to see if your chances are decent. (Yeah, I know it's not random, but if the OP is not unusual, then the typical chance is about as good an estimate as one could have.) I also agree with the suggestion to add some of the 'flyover state' schools.

Definitely follow up with schools that rejected you to find out what you can about improving your application next year. Is there anyone who's read your LORs that might be able to suggest which of them might be best to replace? Keep your question vague enough that it could be answered without revealing too much. And also, use the PS-Reader thread to get some additional opinions on your statement.

Good Luck --
 
I'm not here to give hugs and kisses, and not getting into medical school isn't the same as having a lethal or dangerous medical condition. I'm here to give realistic advice. The rah-rah Pollyanna attitude of "you'll get in somewhere, just keep applying" doesn't help get people into medical school.

Face the truth: there are lots of average and below avg pre-meds vying for too few seats. Therefore, they need to be above avg, or they need to stop trying to get into Harvard or JHU when their stats are perfectly fine for Penn State or Drexel.


It can be the difference between people having hope that there is a small but significant chance that they slipped through the cracks vs. being 100% sure that they are a failure and shouldn't even bother applying again. I know that you will say that it is irrelevant and if they didn't get in then they should just be bettering themselves anyways, but there is a large mental health component that people always seem to forget about. How do you think the average premed feels who has been rejected from everywhere and is looking at a scary future with 0 prospects if they don't get in to medical school?



They have worked for years and now they are not sure if they should just kill themselves and give up or keep going. Often times all it takes is just having that small glimmer of hope to give them the encouragement to keep going. Have you never seen the family of a child who has a very low chance of recovery staying with the child day and night in prayer, hoping for that small percentage chance to be a reality? Or are you the type to callously kick them out and tell them their child is a goner, get out and go home.

Sure there are people who just have to get to work and improve their app, but sometimes the best advice you can give someone is to try again and acknowledge that the process has a random component. I have seen this in play, having to encourage someone very close to me that they should just try again, even though they did not make any changes to their app. They ended up getting into multiple schools, and thanking me for the encouragement that convinced them to just try again. But my rant is over now, I should probably get back to real life.
 
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Face the truth: there are lots of average and below avg pre-meds vying for too few seats. Therefore, they need to be above avg, or they need to stop trying to get into Harvard or JHU when their stats are perfectly fine for Penn State or Drexel.

OP, the stand-out component to your application are the publications.
 
MadJack,
Do you have a quick link to this LizzyM table?

Thanks


These are all schools you didn’t have much of a chance of being interviewed at to begin with- we'll forget you even bothered applying to them:
Sinai-Long Shot
Hopkins-Long Shot
Emory-Long Shot
Columbia-Long Shot
Yale-Long Shot
University of Michigan-Long Shot
University of Pittsburgh-Long Shot
Brown-Long Shot
Washington University-Long Shot
Cornell-Long Shot
Harvard-Long Shot
Tufts-Long Shot
University of Chicago-Long Shot
NYU-Long Shot
Northwestern-Long Shot
Perelman-Long Shot
Stanford-Long Shot

Which leaves these 15 that you actually had a shot of interviewing at, with three of them being a low shot:
Boston University-Hopeful
Albert Einstein-Hopeful, Low cGPA
Case Western-Hopeful

Of the remaining schools, there are 9 where you stood an average to high chance to getting in:
Rosalind Franklin-Go For It
St Louis U-Go for It, Low cGPA
Temple-Go for It
University of Maryland-Go For It, Low GPA, only 27% OOS accepted
Georgetown-Go For It
Jefferson-Go For It
Loyola-Go For It
Rush-High Chance, but only 28% OOS accepted
NYMC-High Chance
Drexel-High Chance
GWU-High Chance
University of Illinois-High Chance, but only 30% OOS accepted

Your only real red flags are those two withdrawals. Perhaps your explanation of them is your problem. You should have gotten at least one interview out of the schools you actually had a shot at. If your explanation made it sound like if someone were to die while you were in medical school, you might have problems, it could very well have made adcoms leery. Bad things will happen during med school and residency- your loved ones could die, you could become ill, unforeseen troubles could arise, etc. If adcoms walk away with the impression that you cannot handle such events, you will not be interviewed, so I would analyze your explanation for your withdrawals. Also, accommodations are never looked favorably upon- they may view your MCAT as inflated due to seeing that accommodations were required. I am chalking up your lack of interview invites to a fairly top-heavy app and possible questions as to your withdrawals and need for accommodations coupled with a dash of bad luck.

Also keep in mind I'm using an old LizzyM table, and that admissions have gotten more competitive in the last three years, so you are actually less competitive than you appear to be in the above analysis.
 
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