Why DIDN'T you apply to DO schools?

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actually I was never asked even though my scores would certainly have made them think that I would.
 
Gosh it would be hard to not reply with some sort of douche response. Probably make up some BS about wanting to go to school with similar peers and where you felt you'd make the best fit. While this reason is probably true, everyone knows why people don't apply to DO. (I usually mention this in DO threads: DO's are equivalent to MD's. End of story, don't debate it here.)
 
"Because I'm applying early decision to this school, my first choice, which is not a DO school. SO WHY AREN'T YOU A DO SCHOOL, EH? EH???"
 
I guess a safe answer would be because you didn't agree with the DO philosophy or something? I was never asked this question in interviews though.
 
RelicLTD said:
So you're asked in an interview... Did you apply to any DO schools?

No.


Why not?
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I doubt you'll be asked this. But if you are, it's a great chance to turn it around on the interviewer and make a positive statement about their school. Example:

"Well, I very carefully selected the schools I applied to based on X and Y. I also didn't want to apply to more than Z schools since this process is pretty expensive. That's why I'm so happy to be interviewing at your school. I feel like you do a great job of X and Y by ________________. "
 
JJMrK said:
I doubt you'll be asked this. But if you are, it's a great chance to turn it around on the interviewer and make a positive statement about their school. Example:

"Well, I very carefully selected the schools I applied to based on X and Y. I also didn't want to apply to more than Z schools since this process is pretty expensive. That's why I'm so happy to be interviewing at your school. I feel like you do a great job of X and Y by ________________. "
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Great response. I was simply going to go based on honesty and say... I really didn't want to do a whole separate application on a different service etc. or I simply would say I had no excuse not to apply to DO schools i simply didn't make the time to do so. Your answer is much more appropriate
 
Because I don't want to pay a nonrefundable $1500 to hold my seat.:idea:
 
BlueElmo said:
I guess a safe answer would be because you didn't agree with the DO philosophy or something? I was never asked this question in interviews though.
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I agree that this is a dumb question that will probably never be asked. But if it were I would not give the above answer. The DO philosophy about approaching the patient as a whole person as opposed to just a collection of symptoms is embraced by the MD community. If you say you disagree with this philosophy that would be a major turn off.

I would have been honest and said that I didn't apply because I didn't feel it was necessary to pay the fees and put the time into an entirely separate application. Using it as an opportunity to talk up their school is gold also.
 
What's the point of this thread except to start another MD vs DO flame war? Seriously, was there a legit point?
 
Is there any flaming going on? I was just wondering if anyone got asked this... cause my Pre-med Advisor asked why I didn't want to apply to DO schools, and I didn't have a solid answer.
 
RelicLTD said:
Is there any flaming going on? I was just wondering if anyone got asked this... cause my Pre-med Advisor asked why I didn't want to apply to DO schools, and I didn't have a solid answer.
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Just tell him/her the truth next time: You didn't want to go through life with a DO behind your name instead of an MD because the stigma by pre-meds hurts your feelings.
 
RELAX11 said:
Just tell him/her the truth next time: You didn't want to go through life with a DO behind your name instead of an MD because the stigma by pre-meds hurts your feelings.
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Even if it is the truth, there has got to be a better way to say it =)

We all think we are so much more badass then every other premed that we don't care what they think.
 
I was told by a DO school dean that if you really, really want to do research, DO school probably isn't for you. And this was at CCOM, which actually has more research going on than most DO schools. If I hadn't applied to DO schools and needed to come up with a reason why, I'd pick that one.
 
I'd have a few reasons, not the least of which is that I chose my schools very carefully based on location and some other factors. There weren't really any DO schools that fit my goals... though that's hard to defend when I applied to UTSW in Dallas and not UNT in Fort Worth.

I think I was asked in my interview why I hadn't applied to a few of the TMDSAS schools and I was honest about it. I didn't want to live in Galveston. I didn't want to live in El Paso, and I was weary about being the first year of students at a new school. I didn't apply to UNT because I didn't want to be a DO.

Why not DO? I shadowed several DOs, one of whom told me that if I wanted to do competitive surgical specialties, I was putting myself at a great disadvantage by being DO. He said it's possible, but there are many more options MD. Don't debate with me whether this is true or not, I was told this by a DO and I believed him. If it's not true, he did a good job of lying.
 
RelicLTD said:
Even if it is the truth, there has got to be a better way to say it =)

We all think we are so much more badass then every other premed that we don't care what they think.
Click to expand...

I will be a DO. I don't care what ignorant pre-meds think. In the end I will be able to do whatever I choose and work hard at. The only significant diff is omm which is being more and more practiced my mds, just look at harvard teaching it. All non primary care specialties are exactly the same for both, where no omm is utilized.
 
Bacchus said:
That would not be the answer to give.
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Why not, exactly? I am not ruling out DO schools. But I'm not focusing on MD because of feelings that they are less worthy to be doctors, or that may not make as much money (see blog).

Rather, I honestly just don't agree with the more spiritual aspect that seems to permeate most DO schools. I don't have a problem with it existing; it works for some people, and that's fine. But I am a pretty logic-based guy, and I would have a hard time incorporating any degree of suspension of belief to my practice of medicine, whether it's believing in poorly-supported evidence for OMM, any belief in unmeasurable energy (resulting in chiropractic philosophy), etc.

Like I said, DO's have as much ability to practice as an MD, and I understand that not all DO's follow the philosophy behind the degree. But if I'm going to spend that much time and money to learn medicine, I'd prefer it to be over topics that I feel are supported and scientific, which is (arguably) not always found in a DO school. Even spending just a few weeks on OMM results in thousands of dollars going toward training I believe is, well, garbage, and I think that if I have a choice, applying MD because I disagree with the osteopathic philosophy is completely valid.

Granted, I would venture to be a bit more tactful in an interview were this question asked, but my answer would be the same.
 
Tin Man said:
Why not, exactly? I am not ruling out DO schools. But I'm not focusing on MD because of feelings that they are less worthy to be doctors, or that may not make as much money (see blog).

Rather, I honestly just don't agree with the more spiritual aspect that seem to permeate most DO schools. I don't have a problem with it existing; it works for some people, and that's fine. But I am a pretty logic-based guy, and I would have a hard time incorporating any degree if suspension of belief to my practice of medicine, whether it's believing in poorly-supported evidence for OMM, any belief in unmeasurable energy (resulting in chiropractic philosophy), etc.

Like I said, DO's have as much ability to practice as an MD, and I understand that not all DO's follow the philosophy behind the degree. But if I'm going to spend that much time and money to learn medicine, I'd prefer it to be over topics that I feel are supported and scientific, which is (arguably) not always found in a DO school. Even spending just a few weeks on OMM results in thousands of dollars going toward training I believe is, well, garbage, and I think that if I have a choice, applying MD because I disagree with the osteopathic philosophy is completely valid.

Granted, I would venture to be a bit more tactful in an interview were this question asked, but my answer would be the same.
Click to expand...

The main contention of osteopathic philosophy is the desire to treat a patient as a whole person. Is this something you'd want to disagree with? The OMM argument is reasonable, but I wouldn't go further than that into the "philosophy" that you disagree with.
 
There are lots of things you could consider:

Money. Neither Application service is free. I think AACOMAS with 3 schools cost me around $210. Then there's also going through INTERFOLIO for your letters, which I think was maybe 20$? Then there's more secondary fee's...45-80$. And then if you're lucky enough to get accepted...$1000-$2000 to hold your seat. Alot of them tend to be a bit more expensive tuition wise as well.

Location. The closest DO school to me is 3.5 hours away. There's 2 MD schools 2 hours away, and another 1 hour away. Unless you live down the road from the local DO school, location is a good reason. Unless of course, you're from California applying to Boston...

I would really not go in there saying that you disagree with the philosophy. I think the philosophy is something the schools teach you, but you don't really use past that. I shadowed a DO OB-GYN and there's really nothing he's doing differently from someone with MD after his name.
 
RELAX11 said:
I will be a DO. I don't care what ignorant pre-meds think. In the end I will be able to do whatever I choose and work hard at. The only significant diff is omm which is being more and more practiced my mds, just look at harvard teaching it. All non primary care specialties are exactly the same for both, where no omm is utilized.
Click to expand...

ehhh
 
Because I am not interested in Primary Care and I want research to be a part of my career.

Someone will undoubtedly follow this with "My DO school matched someone into Derm" but the fact is an unproportionally high amount of DO students go into Primary Care in comparison to Allopathic schools, and many DO schools place an emphasis on it. And getting into a competitive specialty is more difficult coming from a DO school...just look at match results.

For comparison, EVMS vs. VCOM match results:

http://www.evms.edu/images/page-specific-images/education/2009-match-results.pdf
http://vcomdo.com/wp-content/uploads/Match-Results-3-20-2010.xlsx
 
RELAX11 said:
I will be a DO. I don't care what ignorant pre-meds think. In the end I will be able to do whatever I choose and work hard at. The only significant diff is omm which is being more and more practiced my mds, just look at harvard teaching it. All non primary care specialties are exactly the same for both, where no omm is utilized.
Click to expand...

You're going through an awful lot of effort to convey that you don't care.

Why attack the previous poster for not wanting to go DO? It's his decision, big boy.
 
Tin Man said:
Why not, exactly? I am not ruling out DO schools. But I'm not focusing on MD because of feelings that they are less worthy to be doctors, or that may not make as much money (see blog).

Rather, I honestly just don't agree with the more spiritual aspect that seems to permeate most DO schools. I don't have a problem with it existing; it works for some people, and that's fine. But I am a pretty logic-based guy, and I would have a hard time incorporating any degree of suspension of belief to my practice of medicine, whether it's believing in poorly-supported evidence for OMM, any belief in unmeasurable energy (resulting in chiropractic philosophy), etc.

Like I said, DO's have as much ability to practice as an MD, and I understand that not all DO's follow the philosophy behind the degree. But if I'm going to spend that much time and money to learn medicine, I'd prefer it to be over topics that I feel are supported and scientific, which is (arguably) not always found in a DO school. Even spending just a few weeks on OMM results in thousands of dollars going toward training I believe is, well, garbage, and I think that if I have a choice, applying MD because I disagree with the osteopathic philosophy is completely valid.

Granted, I would venture to be a bit more tactful in an interview were this question asked, but my answer would be the same.
Click to expand...
If you don't want to practice OMM and such, learn it and then don't make it a part of your practice.

It's hard to say you don't agree with the DO philosophy when you can learn it and then ignore it.
 
Thanks all for the input.

I can see that this thread may indeed be going down a bad road.

Apologies.


Edit: Is there no way for a thread creator to lock or remove a thread?
 
JoshUNCW said:
Oh, look, its started.
Click to expand...

I can't believe it!

shocked.jpg
 
I see DO residents at Mayo all the time. They are just as capable and competent. And they aren't just in Primary Care...
 
RelicLTD said:
Thanks all for the input.

I can see that this thread may indeed be going down a bad road.

Apologies.


Edit: Is there no way for a thread creator to lock or remove a thread?
Click to expand...
no, only donors can lock their own thread.

if you'd like it locked we can do that. the best way to request things like this is to report the original post or any offending post and ask for it to be locked.
 
rxlea said:
I see DO residents at Mayo all the time. They are just as capable and competent. And they aren't just in Primary Care...
Click to expand...

Nobody ever said they weren't capable or competent. The fact is that if you want to match into a competitive specialty, you are better off going MD rather than DO. It's a legitimate reason. DO schools even put a huge emphasis on primary care. And primary care is something I'm not interested in(I withdrew from WVU's MD school applicant pool for this reason).

Here's a nice Wikipedia chart:

MD_and_DO_inTexas.PNG


Also, check this out:

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf
 
There's something I don't quite understand about the primary care logic. When you say that DO schools put a huge emphasis on primary care, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean they have more courses focusing on primary care? Or that they have a line or two about it on the "about" page of their websites? To me, it seems that the fact that many DO students choose to go into primary care shouldn't really have a bearing on your individual plan/desire/actions. I think that DO schools attract a large number of students interested in primary care, particularly non-trads, but how would that affect you, really?

Matching into MD residencies in super competitive specialities is another issue, and a valid one.
 
illegallysmooth said:
The main contention of osteopathic philosophy is the desire to treat a patient as a whole person. Is this something you'd want to disagree with? The OMM argument is reasonable, but I wouldn't go further than that into the "philosophy" that you disagree with.
Click to expand...
Thank you... I didn't want to have to type it.
 
VTBuc said:
You're going through an awful lot of effort to convey that you don't care.

Why attack the previous poster for not wanting to go DO? It's his decision, big boy.
Click to expand...

Truth hurts? Didn't attack anyone. And those 2 to 3 sentences really wore me down.
 
illegallysmooth said:
There's something I don't quite understand about the primary care logic. When you say that DO schools put a huge emphasis on primary care, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean they have more courses focusing on primary care? Or that they have a line or two about it on the "about" page of their websites? To me, it seems that the fact that many DO students choose to go into primary care shouldn't really have a bearing on your individual plan/desire/actions. I think that DO schools attract a large number of students interested in primary care, particularly non-trads, but how would that affect you, really?

Matching into MD residencies in super competitive specialities is another issue, and a valid one.
Click to expand...

Obviously I have never attended a DO school, but from my visits to MD schools I can tell you that different schools emphasize different parts of medicine(research vs. rural care vs. peds vs. etc) and while any school can get you into any path, you ought to make sure your career goals are a good fit for the school's philosophy.

Here's a good journal article about the different attitudes:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120786483/HTMLSTART

This study presents evidence that the culture of osteopathic medical schools supports learners' choice of primary care careers to a greater extent than that of most allopathic medical schools. Because we controlled for primary care orientation in our analyses, we believe we can attribute differences between the two communities to their cultural practices and not simply to the higher proportion of primary care faculty or primary-care-oriented learners in osteopathic medical schools. The pattern of responses to this survey from members of the osteopathic community indicates the pervasiveness of their commitment to support primary care. Beginning with an explicit, stated primary care mission, the osteopathic medical community admits new members whose personal characteristics and interests fit well with a primary care culture and who are, therefore, likely to choose primary care careers. Not only are structures in place to support primary care training—i.e., mission statements, curricular hours, and a relatively high proportion of primary care faculty—but both primary care and nonprimary care faculty strongly encourage learners to enter primary care careers. Also, residents and students encourage their peers.
Despite large differences between the osteopathic and allopathic communities, there is reason to believe that the two cultures have begun to converge. At the time of this study, 63% of osteopathic graduates entered allopathic residency programs. 9 This dilution of the osteopathic culture, along with the emphasis on high technology and subspecialty medicine practiced in allopathic residency programs, may diminish osteopathic residents' positive attitudes toward primary care and align their attitudes more closely with the culture of allopathic medicine than with osteopathic medicine. Because we did not differentiate between osteopathic residents in osteopathic and allopathic training programs, we cannot determine the degree to which any of these forces was associated with residents' attitudes.
Click to expand...


And again, there are plenty of MD schools with philosophies in primary care(WVU wants rural primary care, EVMS is big into peds), so if primary care is something you are not interested in you might want to consider a school that does put an emphasis on specialty training or research.
 
RELAX11 said:
Truth hurts? Didn't attack anyone. And those 2 to 3 sentences really wore me down.
Click to expand...


Uhh...yes you did? There's plenty of legitimate reasons why someone might not apply to a DO school other than some insecurity. You're a bit premature in throwing that accusation at the OP when nothing he said suggests that some pre-med stigma is the reason he didn't apply DO.
 
illegallysmooth said:
The main contention of osteopathic philosophy is the desire to treat a patient as a whole person. Is this something you'd want to disagree with? The OMM argument is reasonable, but I wouldn't go further than that into the "philosophy" that you disagree with.
Click to expand...

I don't agree that the idea of "treating the whole person" is unique to osteopathy, as much as that idea is flung around. MD's don't only treat half the person. In fact, with the adoption of the biopsychosocial model, it's becoming even more a part of every physician's practice that not only is the whole body treated, but the mind is also taken into account. DO's don't hold that realm exclusively because they have a less research-oriented approach to healthcare.

And yes, it's true that I could learn OMM and ignore it as a physician. As I said, spending weeks on OMM is costing me thousands of dollars and a lot of time that could be dedicated toward something else. Remember, the question is why I don't want to apply to a DO school, not why I don't want to be a DO. That makes a difference, because then I simply discuss my objections to spending time practicing treatments and philosophies I don't agree with. I'm spending a lot of money and time to be a doctor, and I want to spend time studying scientific medicine.

If I was applying to a grad school for biology, I'm not going to enroll at a graduate program where I would be working to disprove evolution. At the end of the day, I would still be a PhD in biology, and I could just ignore the parts of my research that I didn't agree with, but it doesn't change the fact that I spent a good deal of time dedicated toward something I don't believe in.

I say again. I am not doubting the ability of a DO to practice. I fully believe that after med school, they are as capable as any doctor. My personal physician is a DO, and I think he's awesome. I just don't want to spend time learning techniques I don't believe to work and trying to approach medicine from a more spiritual, homey perspective that I don't share. That seems like a perfectly valid reason to avoid DO. And as I also said, it's not out of the question. It's just not my first choice of ways that I want to learn medicine.
 
Some DO schools will make you do an extra rotation 4th year in a rural town or an extra rotation in FP or IM with a preceptor. Other than that there was no emphasis on primary care throughout my 4 years. Physiology, pathology, and gastroenterology are taught the same wherever you go and we had a three month surgery rotation during third year. I can't speak for all DO schools but certainly nobody at my school tried to push me in any one direction.

There are some parts of OMM that are absolute garbage and unproven. If someone states this (eloquently) as a reason for not wanting to go to an osteopathic medical school I'd understand. It wasn't enough to persuade me to go allopathic, but someone who is very research oriented and can't fathom being taught anything nonevidence based would probably be unhappy. Let's not go overboard though. I never learned about spirts or energy (I have heard there was a school a few years back who's OMM professor was pretty "out there" and did talk about energy though). It was mostly acute and chronic muscle spasms and strains.
 
I won't apply DO because I don't think I would even get in. I don't have anything on my resume that even remotely shows I have experience with or interest in the DO philosophy.

That being said, DO manual manipulation is sort of interesting to me and hopefully will be able to do an elective or rotation in it at some point
 
I would have been pretty stunned if someone had asked me that. Might have as well asked me why I didn't apply to the other 100 MD schools, or why I didn't fill out the Texas primary.
 
Because DO's suck and I'm better than that, next question
 
Elpenor said:
Because DO's suck and I'm better than that, next question
Click to expand...

I read this and thought "Let's give him the benefit of the doubt here. He's probably being sarcastic." So I took one glance at your recent posts and...

Nope! You're just a dick.
 
Elpenor said:
Because DO's suck and I'm better than that, next question
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Care to cite a source that shows that DO's suck?

Hard to believe that you as a pre-med are already better than a DO at medicine... so... a little clarification on your part would be useful. After all, if you're going to go MD, then you're going to be dealing with a lot of evidence-based science. Might as well start practicing now by using evidence to prove both that DO's suck and that you are better than them at their practice.

Good luck.
 
Tin Man said:
I don't agree that the idea of "treating the whole person" is unique to osteopathy, as much as that idea is flung around. MD's don't only treat half the person. In fact, with the adoption of the biopsychosocial model, it's becoming even more a part of every physician's practice that not only is the whole body treated, but the mind is also taken into account. DO's don't hold that realm exclusively because they have a less research-oriented approach to healthcare.

And yes, it's true that I could learn OMM and ignore it as a physician. As I said, spending weeks on OMM is costing me thousands of dollars and a lot of time that could be dedicated toward something else. Remember, the question is why I don't want to apply to a DO school, not why I don't want to be a DO. That makes a difference, because then I simply discuss my objections to spending time practicing treatments and philosophies I don't agree with. I'm spending a lot of money and time to be a doctor, and I want to spend time studying scientific medicine.

If I was applying to a grad school for biology, I'm not going to enroll at a graduate program where I would be working to disprove evolution. At the end of the day, I would still be a PhD in biology, and I could just ignore the parts of my research that I didn't agree with, but it doesn't change the fact that I spent a good deal of time dedicated toward something I don't believe in.

I say again. I am not doubting the ability of a DO to practice. I fully believe that after med school, they are as capable as any doctor. My personal physician is a DO, and I think he's awesome. I just don't want to spend time learning techniques I don't believe to work and trying to approach medicine from a more spiritual, homey perspective that I don't share. That seems like a perfectly valid reason to avoid DO. And as I also said, it's not out of the question. It's just not my first choice of ways that I want to learn medicine.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point a bit. I completely agree with your first bolded statement, and that is exactly why the interviewee should not cite that he disagrees with the philosophy. The osteopathic philosophy was not formed in the medical environment that exists today. At the end of the 19th century, the allopathic community was not as you described above. Now, yes, the allopathic community has adopted a more holistic attitude. Which is precisely why you shouldn't poo-poo the "osteopathic philosophy." It's now more adequately called "common sense." I interviewed at several DO schools and I did not get any sort of "spiritual homey sense" at any point, at any school. That comment of yours leads me to believe you don't understand what DO schools are like as much as you think you do.

You comment about a program that disproves evolution is irrelevant and borderline offensive to osteopathic physicians given the context of your post. I don't think you're trying to be offensive or insulting, I just don't think you understand the context in which osteopathic medicine came to be, and now both the osteopathic and allopathic communities have changed in the last 100 years. In constrast to your statements, DO schools do practice "scientific medicine" and "evidence-based medicine."
 
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