Why Do Anesthesiologists Make More Than Surgeons

[YouNeverKnow22]

Why? I mean I'm no stickler for money but I've been shadowing a surgeon and they do more work, are under more stress and face more issues than anesthesiologists yet they are the ones who make more than surgeons...its doesn't make sense to me 😕.

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[MossPoh]

Pretty big generalization there. If you think an anesthesiologist is never under stress then you have never seen unplanned events happen in the OR. A good anesthesiologist is meticulous and doesn't allow for that stuff to happen. Their job is to stay cool. Don't think they are sitting there and staring into space while the surgeon cuts away. There is a lot of thinking and anticipation going on. Anesthesia is dangerous. It is a risk every time you are put under. Also, depends on the surgeon. General surgeons have gotten hosed more than many specialties when it comes to reimbursement.

There are tons of factors and variables. Looking at that little average salary thing doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

Pretty big generalization there. If you think an anesthesiologist is never under stress then you have never seen unplanned events happen in the OR. A good anesthesiologist is meticulous and doesn't allow for that stuff to happen. Their job is to stay cool. Don't think they are sitting there and staring into space while the surgeon cuts away. There is a lot of thinking and anticipation going on. Anesthesia is dangerous. It is a risk every time you are put under. Also, depends on the surgeon. General surgeons have gotten hosed more than many specialties when it comes to reimbursement.

There are tons of factors and variables. Looking at that little average salary thing doesn't tell the whole story.

I understand that, but residency for surgeons and residency for anesthesiologists same very different.....the surgeons have so much more to do it seems like....but I'm just speculating here, I'm def. not trying to take away from them because they do a great job but to earn more than the person fixing you up seems odd

 

[rHinO1]

I understand that, but residency for surgeons and residency for anesthesiologists same very different.....the surgeons have so much more to do it seems like....but I'm just speculating here, I'm def. not trying to take away from them because they do a great job but to earn more than the person fixing you up seems odd

How about a little credit for the guy keeping you alive during surgery. I've worked in a sugery department for a few years and although at times the anesthesiologists sometimes seam to be sitting back during surgery, actually they work very hard. They work very long hours and are constantly busy. They go from one surgery to another. In general they also have high malpractice insurance because they are responsible for the patients during sugery. When something goes wrong during surgery, the surgeon steps back and the anesthesiologist runs the code.

Anesthesiogists are great with difficult airways, pharmacology, and pain management.

 

[Depakote]

Anesthesiologists are doctors who keep patients alive while surgeons do things that would otherwise kill them.

American Society of Anesthesiology Newsletter

 

[Sharka]

i remember watching a heart surgery a few years back. the heart surgeon was working his buns off, while the anesthesiologist was reading a novel next to the patient's monitor. he would look up every few minutes to check the screen and adjusted the bed when the surgeon asked him to do so. that's when i decided i wanted to be an anesthesiologist 🙂

 

[lrkoehle]

i remember watching a heart surgery a few years back. the heart surgeon was working his buns off, while the anesthesiologist was reading a novel next to the patient's monitor. he would look up every few minutes to check the screen and adjusted the bed when the surgeon asked him to do so. that's when i decided i wanted to be an anesthesiologist 🙂

If you think all an anesthesiologist does is sit back and read, why would you want to do that? It doesn't sound very rewarding to me. I'm not trying to sound super idealistic, like, "you should only want to go into medicine to help," but sitting around reading doesn't sound enjoyable at all. That's more like a cubicle job.

With that said, I agree with the others who have pointed out how important the anesthesiologist is in surgery. They have a very important job.

 

[nick_carraway]

If you think all an anesthesiologist does is sit back and read, why would you want to do that? It doesn't sound very rewarding to me. I'm not trying to sound super idealistic, like, "you should only want to go into medicine to help," but sitting around reading doesn't sound enjoyable at all. That's more like a cubicle job.

With that said, I agree with the others who have pointed out how important the anesthesiologist is in surgery. They have a very important job.

You've clearly never had a massive stack of books/magazines sitting at home because you don't have the time to read them. If you were an anesthesiologist, problem solved.

In all seriousness, though, I want to be an anesthesiologist because I'm insanely OCD and wouldn't trust someone else to watch over a patient.

 

[Sharka]

If you think all an anesthesiologist does is sit back and read, why would you want to do that? It doesn't sound very rewarding to me. I'm not trying to sound super idealistic, like, "you should only want to go into medicine to help," but sitting around reading doesn't sound enjoyable at all. That's more like a cubicle job.

With that said, I agree with the others who have pointed out how important the anesthesiologist is in surgery. They have a very important job.

i get to read books in the ER, get paid boat-loads of money, and provide a very important service to the patient (as you have stated). i do all of this while having a heart of gold and wanting to help others.

 

[circulus vitios]

I've heard that malpractice for surgeons is a lot more. If they paid the same amount of malpractice as anesthesiologists, they would make as much if not more.

 

[bananaking]

Anesthesiologists don't earn that much. The big bucks go to ophthalmologists. At least that's the trend in Canada.

http://www.discoveryfinance.com/national-average-income-for-medical-doctors-canada.html

 

[lrkoehle]

i get to read books in the ER, get paid boat-loads of money, and provide a very important service to the patient (as you have stated). i do all of this while having a heart of gold and wanting to help others.

I wasn't trying to criticize. These differences are what make the world go round, and let's face it if no one wanted to go into anesthesiology that would not be good for many medical fields. The anesthesiologists I have interacted with seemed generally happy, so good luck.

 

[VMSmith]

i remember watching a heart surgery a few years back. the heart surgeon was working his buns off, while the anesthesiologist was reading a novel next to the patient's monitor. he would look up every few minutes to check the screen and adjusted the bed when the surgeon asked him to do so. that's when i decided i wanted to be an anesthesiologist 🙂

Either you were watching a pacemaker implantation or else you were watching a patient who had been switched over to a heart-lung machine, in which case the perfusionist is temporarily managing everything. I have a hard time believing that a cardiac surgeon, whose hold on his job is so precarious, would be okay with the anesthesiologist reading a novel while his ass is on the line.

Cardiac surgeons and cardiac anesthesiologists have to work together exceedingly well during cardiac surgeries.

Anesthesiologists need to be 10 steps ahead of any given situation so that they can react instinctively without thinking. If they're doing their jobs correctly, they'll have everything they need close at hand and know exactly what steps to take and in what order to do them before anything actually happens. 95% of the time, nothing happens and the preparation goes "to waste". But that 5% of the time is what separates good anesthesiologists from average or poor ones, and is what makes the difference between a patient living and dying.

 

[nick_carraway]

Anesthesiologists need to be 10 steps ahead of any given situation so that they can react instinctively without thinking. If they're doing their jobs correctly, they'll have everything they need close at hand and know exactly what steps to take and in what order to do them before anything actually happens. 95% of the time, nothing happens and the preparation goes "to waste". But that 5% of the time is what separates good anesthesiologists from average or poor ones, and is what makes the difference between a patient living and dying.

Nothing impresses me more than being in the OR when something goes wrong. The normal banter is gone instantly, auxiliary people step away, and everyone moves on autopilot until the situation is resolved. Pretty commendable.

 

[45408]

Being an anesthesiologist is very challenging, but I think it's ridiculous that they typically make more money and work less.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. According to the AMGA most surgeons make just as much if not more than anesthesiologists.

check it out: http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

EDIT: according to that chart there's such a specialty as orthopedic-medical. Wtf is that all about??

 

[IHeartNerds]

I also take umbrage with the premise of the thread...Although I've seen stats for gas and general surgery that are widely similar in the 225-300k range, all 'specialist' surgeons (colorectal, cardiac, nsgy, ortho, plastics, gyn onc) make significantly more than gas, by all numbers i've seen. 😕

 

[bananaking]

EDIT: according to that chart there's such a specialty as orthopedic-medical. Wtf is that all about??

Orthopedic puts titanium screws and plates into your bones. 😀

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Orthopedic puts titanium screws and plates into your bones. 😀

I thought orthopedic surgeons did that? Huh, didn't even know a residency like that existed! Learn something new everyday here 😀

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

Being an anesthesiologist is very challenging, but I think it's ridiculous that they typically make more money and work less.

👍 I agree their job is VERY VERY important but surgeons put in SO much time you would think they get compensated a little more

 

[buffywannabe]

My PI is an anesthesiologist. He works both in the hospital and in our lab. I would ask to shadow him but I think it sounds super boring. Have any of you shadowed anesthesiologists? Is it interesting?

 

[nick_carraway]

My PI is an anesthesiologist. He works both in the hospital and in our lab. I would ask to shadow him but I think it sounds super boring. Have any of you shadowed anesthesiologists? Is it interesting?

Well as was mentioned earlier, some go into Pain Medicine and Critical Care medicine so it's a diverse field.

 

[MegaProjectile]

Why? I mean I'm no stickler for money but I've been shadowing a surgeon and they do more work, are under more stress and face more issues than anesthesiologists yet they are the ones who make more than surgeons...its doesn't make sense to me 😕.

Where did you get your figures from? Unless you have your own pain clinic you won't be making more than most established surgeons. The earning potential for surgeons is higher than anesthesiologists .Also anesthesiologists faced some competition with CRNAs which creates an over-supply, therefore, further depressing income in desirable locations.

Physician salaries :

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

 

[shemarty]

My PI is an anesthesiologist. He works both in the hospital and in our lab. I would ask to shadow him but I think it sounds super boring. Have any of you shadowed anesthesiologists? Is it interesting?

It sounds boring beause its harder to follow than surgery, which is often very visual. (sometimes it's really micro level stuff and then its impossible to see whats going on)

High school students could watch an operation and think that its awesome. But you probably need at least intro physiology before you can shadow an anesthesiologist and begin to understand what they're doing.

If you actually ask the anesthesiologists to explain what lines they're putting in, what drugs they're giving and why, how those drugs work, etc, it becomes more interesting.

The surgeons get all the praise when an operation is succesful. The anesthesiologist is the unsung hero keeping the patient alive.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

It sounds boring beause its harder to follow than surgery, which is often very visual. (sometimes it's really micro level stuff and then its impossible to see whats going on)

High school students could watch an operation and think that its awesome. But you probably need at least intro physiology before you can shadow an anesthesiologist and begin to understand what they're doing.

If you actually ask the anesthesiologists to explain what lines they're putting in, what drugs they're giving and why, how those drugs work, etc, it becomes more interesting.

The surgeons get all the praise when an operation is succesful. The anesthesiologist is the unsung hero keeping the patient alive.

On the other hand, a BAD anesthesiologist can make a world of difference. Especially when someone's giving birth and they misplace the epinephrine shot. How many times have I heard THOSE stories 🙁

 

[45408]

Where did you get your figures from? Unless you have your own pain clinic you won't be making more than most established surgeons. The earning potential for surgeons is higher than anesthesiologists .Also anesthesiologists faced some competition with CRNAs which creates an over-supply, therefore, further depressing income in desirable locations.

Physician salaries :

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

That link has been posted a billion times, and the majority of those times, someone will explain why it's not very accurate. Now is not one of those times, but rest assured, that link is not very accurate.

 

[bananaking]

How about this link: http://www.discoveryfinance.com/national-average-income-for-medical-doctors-canada.html?

Is the government's statistics more accurate? It only gives average salaries. I wish it has standard deviations or standard errors.... 🙄

 

[shnuffles]

Nothing impresses me more than being in the OR when something goes wrong. The normal banter is gone instantly, auxiliary people step away, and everyone moves on autopilot until the situation is resolved. Pretty commendable.

👍

 

[tkim]

On the other hand, a BAD anesthesiologist can make a world of difference. Especially when someone's giving birth and they misplace the epinephrine shot. How many times have I heard THOSE stories 🙁

Epidural.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Epidural.

Oh god I just realized that. What was I thinking

 

[BlueElmo]

My PI is an anesthesiologist. He works both in the hospital and in our lab. I would ask to shadow him but I think it sounds super boring. Have any of you shadowed anesthesiologists? Is it interesting?

Well if you shadow a surgeon, you can also watch what an anesthesiologist is doing. I don't know, I was too busy watching the surgeon performing surgeries than to watch what the anesthesiologist was doing.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Cause compensation isn't totally determined by how hard you work?

 

[jake2]

Supply and demand presently set physician salaries. Anesthesiologists are in demand with a limited supply thus their salaries.

That being said, they do not make as much as general surgeons but rather about the same amount. There are several fields (dermatology, radiology, rad onc, etc.) that make more than general surgery despite working significantly less hard. Yes, they work hard but general surgeons work brutally hard for their entire careers. In my opinion, they are greatly undercompensated for the work they do.

 

[m015094]

Anesthesiologists don't earn that much. The big bucks go to ophthalmologists. At least that's the trend in Canada.

http://www.discoveryfinance.com/national-average-income-for-medical-doctors-canada.html

I seriously hope that you are being sarcastic.

I appalls me when I hear pre-meds take about salary inequity. Why don't you compare the average doctor salary to your average patient salary?

Yeah, I know, you spent a lot more time and money on school, but come on.

300K/year isn't enough?

 

[Octagonecology]

Epidural.

I wonder what would happen if you injected 1:1000 Epi straight into the spinal cord?

 

[tkim]

Oh god I just realized that. What was I thinking

Dude, birthing is not Pulp Fiction.

 

[tkim]

I wonder what would happen if you injected 1:1000 Epi straight into the spinal cord?

Into the cord itself or intrathecally? Intrathecal epi is used to prolong spinal anesthesia, all the time, so I've heard. Injecting into the cord might cause vasospasm and tissue necrosis.

 

[Blesbok]

The only surgeons that I know even close to making less than anesthesia is a general surgeon with good hours.

And a better question is why do dermatologists make more than family practice doctors?

 

[circulus vitios]

I seriously hope that you are being sarcastic.

I appalls me when I hear pre-meds take about salary inequity. Why don't you compare the average doctor salary to your average patient salary?

Yeah, I know, you spent a lot more time and money on school, but come on.

300K/year isn't enough?

There's no such thing as "too much money." If you feel this way, I'll gladly take that extra money off your hands - free of charge.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Dude, birthing is not Pulp Fiction.

and I really wanted to see that picture too 🙁

 

[Vido]

During my very very limited shadowing experience, I've watched a small surgery where the anesthesiologist was sleeping. i didn't know if i should have said something but i kept it to myself 😎.I mean she could have been doing something else with her eyes closed.

 

[tkim]

and I really wanted to see that picture too 🙁

You haven't seen Pulp Fiction yet? That movie is 15 years old.

 

[Depakote]

You haven't seen Pulp Fiction yet? That movie is 15 years old.

all we see is an image saying "no hotlinking"

 

[core0]

Supply and demand presently set physician salaries. Anesthesiologists are in demand with a limited supply thus their salaries.

That being said, they do not make as much as general surgeons but rather about the same amount. There are several fields (dermatology, radiology, rad onc, etc.) that make more than general surgery despite working significantly less hard. Yes, they work hard but general surgeons work brutally hard for their entire careers. In my opinion, they are greatly undercompensated for the work they do.

Physician salary does not completely respond to supply and demand. The biggest difference between anesthesia and surgery is the reimbursement. Insurance reimburses more for procedures than cognition. This is why salaries are higher in derm for example than IM. In the late 80's Medicare changed payment for anesthesia making it much more lucrative. In the mid 90's they decreased payment for surgery supposedly in response to shorter surgeries and patient stays related to laprascopic surgery. The net result is that for a given amount of time spent the anesthesiologist gets paid more than the surgeon. Also surgery pays for a global period around the surgery which most surgeons will say does not compensate for the amount of work that they do.

There are some variations within the professions. There are rural remote sites that will pay a surgeon a substantial subsidy to keep the hosptial staffed. These same sites will probably hire a CRNA instead of an anesthesiologist because of pass through rules and cost. On the other hand anesthesia can negotiate sole source contracts with hospitals leading to increased efficiencies. They can also get subsidies for low reimbursing/low volume areas such as OB or trauma. Anesthesia management companies are moving into this area which means that individual ansthesiologist make less money.

Overall surgeons and anesthesiologhy make pretty compareable money from what I've seen. The biggest difference is that for the amount of hours worked anesthesia makes more money largely because of reimbursement.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[Blesbok]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. According to the AMGA most surgeons make just as much if not more than anesthesiologists.

check it out: http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

EDIT: according to that chart there's such a specialty as orthopedic-medical. Wtf is that all about??

It isn't uncommon these days for large ortho practices to have a FP trained in non-surgical ortho so that the ortho surgeons can spend less time in the clinic and more time in the OR. I assume this is what it is reffering too, but I don't know.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

all we see is an image saying "no hotlinking"

Yeah! I was so excited about seeing Samuel L. Jackson 😀

 

[FIREitUP]

[rant]how else are they supposed to get compensated for their inadequacy? just because they "keep people alive" doesn't mean that their job is a fraction as intensive as a surgeon, who too must anticipate, AND needs to follow up on patients, unlike worthless anesthesiologists which are basically rent-a-doctors.
[/rant]

 

[shemarty]

[rant]how else are they supposed to get compensated for their inadequacy? just because they "keep people alive" doesn't mean that their job is a fraction as intensive as a surgeon, who too must anticipate, AND needs to follow up on patients, unlike worthless anesthesiologists which are basically rent-a-doctors.
[/rant]

😕

 

[greatnt249]

[rant]how else are they supposed to get compensated for their inadequacy? just because they "keep people alive" doesn't mean that their job is a fraction as intensive as a surgeon, who too must anticipate, AND needs to follow up on patients, unlike worthless anesthesiologists which are basically rent-a-doctors.
[/rant]

Please, do tell us your credentials so that we can determine how the opinions in this rant are in any way qualified.🙄

 

[mahnster13]

Simply put, that surgeon wouldn't be able to operate without that anesthesiologist. You know how they did surgeries before the common use of anesthesia? Either get you extremely drunk (can still feel the pain), put a stick of wood in your mouth (can still feel the pain), or perform them in secluded wings of the hospital so the rest of the patients and staff couldn't hear the blood curdling screams of those undergoing surgery (reminds me of a horror movie for some reason). I for one would NOT like to see surgery performed under those conditions, and am extremely thankful for the modern anesthesiologist. Seeing as many modern surgical techniques are made possible by the use of anesthesia (i.e. the surgeon's job kind of depends on having an anesthesiologist), I would say the anesthesiologist definitely deserves a little more compensation.
Not that I myself really care about the money involved in medicine, I really don't, I would STILL choose medicine if I was going to be unable to pay off med school loans before I died because I don't make over 20K a year, but if we are talking about a difference in compensation based on the importance of the work, I would have to lean slightly in favor of the anesthesiologist. However, this does in NO WAY mean that the surgeon's work is not important. He is in there doing the "dirty work," actually, physically making the patient better, he is the quarterback making the big plays while the anesthesiologist is the coach who helps plan out the plays and helps ensure the game is under control.