Why do chains hire new grads to work as pharmacy managers?

[swatchgirl]

Why do chains like CVS and Walgreens employ new grads to work as pharmacy managers just fresh out of school? Are new grads with little retail experience ready to shoulder the responsibilities? It doesn't make any sense to me. They all say they are willing to train you, but I don't have a good feeling about it. What's their reason for hiring new grads when there are so many more experienced pharmacists who are currently looking for jobs? Are they trying to save on money?

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[Chalupa_Batman86]

Stay away from managerial positions. Far, far away.

Staff pharmacist is OK, and some of us work per diem in other shops just to maintain connections. In a way, we are festering pests trying to hang on to the breadcrumbs.

 

[Schwimmy]

As I look at it, the order of desirablility is per-diem<manager<staff unless you like being in charge.

I was hired on as "manager" of a pharmacy who only employed me. Even if I had a mix of good/bad people to take care of, it's not really that hard.

 

[ChalupaBatman86]

It's kind of like the Soviet space program:

On 3 November 1957, the second-ever orbiting spacecraft carried the first animal into orbit, the dog Laika, launched aboard the Soviet Sputnik 2 spacecraft (nicknamed 'Muttnik' in the West). Laika died during the flight, as was intended because the technology to return from orbit had not yet been developed

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[ChalupaBatman86]

Dog: can't believe they picked me to be a Cosmonaut when there are so many qualified humans! What time do we land?

Soviets: LOL

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[swatchgirl]

Dog: can't believe they picked me to be a Cosmonaut when there are so many qualified humans! What time do we land?

Damn, that's sad. :-(

 

[wagrxm2000]

Why do chains like CVS and Walgreens employ new grads to work as pharmacy managers just fresh out of school? Are new grads with little retail experience ready to shoulder the responsibilities? It doesn't make any sense to me. They all say they are willing to train you, but I don't have a good feeling about it. What's their reason for hiring new grads when there are so many more experienced pharmacists who are currently looking for jobs? Are they trying to save on money?

No one wants the manager position.

Anyone who thinks the rxm position is horrible doesn't know how to correctly do the job. Your pay is higher and you just delegate the extra work out. I try to do as much as possible but if I can't I just give it to the staff. Oh and there's never a reason to stay over.

 

[VeeSee]

Because it's better then floating

 

[297point1]

Why? Because we in academia didn't teach our soon-to-be graduates that it isn't a good idea to accept a PIC position right out of school.
Our lack of backbone on this sets some of our graduates up for failure.
Shame on us.

 

[confettiflyer]

Because they're too optimistic/dumb to know better.


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[WVUPharm2007]

PIC position sucks. There are extra meetings, extra responsibilities, and extra headaches and with a VERY negligible increase in pay. Remember in Billy Madison when he went to the chubby kid and warned him to stay in elementary school as long as possible? That's the regular staff position. It's the sweet spot of regular pay, vacation time, and money that you should strive for.

 

[owlegrad]

Why? Because we in academia didn't teach our soon-to-be graduates that it isn't a good idea to accept a PIC position right out of school.
Our lack of backbone on this sets some of our graduates up for failure.
Shame on us.

Sarcasm? I know we love to blame schools for all our woes but I don't think we can lay this one at y'all's feet.

 

[297point1]

Sarcasm?

Nope.

 

[hye345]

PIC position sucks. There are extra meetings, extra responsibilities, and extra headaches and with a VERY negligible increase in pay. Remember in Billy Madison when he went to the chubby kid and warned him to stay in elementary school as long as possible? That's the regular staff position. It's the sweet spot of regular pay, vacation time, and money that you should strive for.

Staying staff forever does sound like a sweet setup, but you also gotta look at it from the perspective of a supervisor and/or DM: you have new grads getting hired/coming in every year, who need placement; if everyone thought like this, and never left their staff position, there would be no place for these new grads to land, and the current saturation problem would be turned up to a TEN.

 

[ChalupaBatman86]

Staying staff forever does sound like a sweet setup, but you also gotta look at it from the perspective of a supervisor and/or DM: you have new grads getting hired/coming in every year, who need placement; if everyone thought like this, and never left their staff position, there would be no place for these new grads to land, and the current saturation problem would be turned up to a TEN.

There is a place for them to go. Outer space--I mean PIC.

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[RxPreceptor]

Because the experienced/smart staff pharmacists are too intelligent to take the bait of being offered to be PIC...the extra work & stress that come with PIC is NOT worth what little pay increase you obtain. New graduates can be naive in accepting such responsibility straight out of school (they don't know what they are getting themselves into).

I just think it makes bad practice...the "young" less experienced PICs do not seem to command/get any respect compared to the veteran PICs.

 

[mikejones123]

No one wants the manager position.

Anyone who thinks the rxm position is horrible doesn't know how to correctly do the job. Your pay is higher and you just delegate the extra work out. I try to do as much as possible but if I can't I just give it to the staff. Oh and there's never a reason to stay over.

The rxm manager job is horrible. You can't delegate liabilities to your staff. When you get written up for failing an LP audit because a staff rph forgot to check off a control invoice, how do you delegate that?How about when the state fines you when the tech ratio is off on your day off. The pay is not that much higher, most overnight rph make more than veteran rxm. Plus in most chains, rxm have to attend unpaid meetings and conference calls. Most of them can't be delegated. Add it all up the average rxm probably does at least 100 hours of unpaid work per year.

 

[wagrxm2000]

The rxm manager job is horrible. You can't delegate liabilities to your staff. When you get written up for failing an LP audit because a staff rph forgot to check off a control invoice, how do you delegate that?How about when the state fines you when the tech ratio is off on your day off. The pay is not that much higher, most overnight rph make more than veteran rxm. Plus in most chains, rxm have to attend unpaid meetings and conference calls. Most of them can't be delegated. Add it all up the average rxm probably does at least 100 hours of unpaid work per year.

Hmm none of this happens to me. We've had one meeting in the past year, when you have a meeting you subtract it from your normal hours. But again, not everyone is capable of doing it.

I've always said the percentage of pharmacists here that hate retail is way different in my area. Most rxms are long term and outside of floaters most enjoy their job.

 

[owlegrad]

Hmm none of this happens to me. We've had one meeting in the past year, when you have a meeting you subtract it from your normal hours. But again, not everyone is capable of doing it.

I've always said the percentage of pharmacists here that hate retail is way different in my area. Most rxms are long term and outside of floaters most enjoy their job.

Interesting, I have a friend that just became RXM for Walgreens and he has several meetings he has to go to and does not get to subtract it from his normal hours. I have always found your claims of leaving early to be unreal though. How can that be possible?

 

[wagrxm2000]

Interesting, I have a friend that just became RXM for Walgreens and he has several meetings he has to go to and does not get to subtract it from his normal hours. I have always found your claims of leaving early to be unreal though. How can that be possible?

I have no clue. We have yet to have a meeting this year. We have conference calls though once a week. It's my understanding the dm is to go to each store every 2 weeks so there's no reason for meetings.

I can only speak for my district, maybe I've just been lucky to have good dms. When we still had pharmacy supervisors there was a brief moment when we had a strict one who had quarterly meetings but obviously he only cared about numbers and getting his bonus.

 

[Sine Cura]

I assure you field managers don't want new grads as pharmacy managers. It's due to lack of options for reasons already stated. "Training" is a joke. You either have the motivation to learn on your own (these days there is documentation for almost everything that is established so you don't need to ask anyone most of the time) or you will sink

 

[doublehh03]

Interesting, I have a friend that just became RXM for Walgreens and he has several meetings he has to go to and does not get to subtract it from his normal hours. I have always found your claims of leaving early to be unreal though. How can that be possible?

Walgreens doesn't have the insane amount of metrics that CVS does.

 

[Old Timer]

Why do chains like CVS and Walgreens employ new grads to work as pharmacy managers just fresh out of school? Are new grads with little retail experience ready to shoulder the responsibilities? It doesn't make any sense to me. They all say they are willing to train you, but I don't have a good feeling about it. What's their reason for hiring new grads when there are so many more experienced pharmacists who are currently looking for jobs? Are they trying to save on money?

1. They have nobody else
2. They have inexperienced supervisors or DM's or whatever that don't realize in their panic to fill a spot that you need a certain amount of experience to lead a group of people

 

[FarmD711]

I was a successful PIC directly out of school. But I hated every second of it. No time to learn to be a pharmacist in a non intern environment before having all that pressure. Some states are now requiring a period of licensure (1-2 years) before being allowed to be a pic which I definitely support.


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[rph3664]

The startup LTC place where I briefly worked in the summer of 2011 was going to install a new grad as their PIC. As one of my non-pharmacy friends who has worked in HR said, "He'll probably hit the ground stumbling", and she was right.

I have an acquaintance whose daughter graduated in 2012, and Wags wanted her to start out as a PIC. She refused to do that, and still does staff work at that store.

 

[angryrx]

True story. New PIC in retail has a surprise visit from BOP. Asking to see originals for random C2 script #s in the last year. Scripts were not found. $$$$ in fines, PIC asks retail chain to pay for fines, and retail chain advised the new PIC to seek legal counsel. BOOYAH!

 

[ldiot]

How much more does the PIC actually make assuming all else is equal in terms of just salary? 5k? 20k?

 

[BidingMyTime]

True story. New PIC in retail has a surprise visit from BOP. Asking to see originals for random C2 script #s in the last year. Scripts were not found. $$$$ in fines, PIC asks retail chain to pay for fines, and retail chain advised the new PIC to seek legal counsel. BOOYAH!

Which is absolutely why every pharmacist should have their own individual liability insurance and not depend on their place of employment.

I remember my first, maybe my second week of working in a hospital after getting licensed as a pharmacist. State inspector comes in and is asking for C2 and other records....I have no idea where they are kept. The technicians have no idea. I start looking through all the cabinets and files for them, I finally find some inventory logs dated from like 10 years before....I'm thinking "no way, surely we have something more recent????" Fortunately, the state inspector was a bit sympathetic to the situation. The director (on vacation) eventually returned and cleared everything up. But imagine the situation where its the director who is the newly license pharmacist and has no idea where their predecessor kept everything....

 

[zelman]

How much more does the PIC actually make assuming all else is equal in terms of just salary? 5k? 20k?

$2-3k plus bonus. So $2-12k overall.

 

[Jibby321]

Sarcasm? I know we love to blame schools for all our woes but I don't think we can lay this one at y'all's feet.

IMO, academia should have courses built into curiculum in business/management. Wether you like it or not if you are the RXM or the staff on duty you are the boss and need to know how to run a ship and run it well while being cognizant of the pharmacy budget/ P&L etc. This also applies to hospital practice.

 

[Jibby321]

The rxm manager job is horrible. You can't delegate liabilities to your staff. When you get written up for failing an LP audit because a staff rph forgot to check off a control invoice, how do you delegate that?How about when the state fines you when the tech ratio is off on your day off. The pay is not that much higher, most overnight rph make more than veteran rxm. Plus in most chains, rxm have to attend unpaid meetings and conference calls. Most of them can't be delegated. Add it all up the average rxm probably does at least 100 hours of unpaid work per year.

You hold those responsible accountable. I.E you write them up for those infractions. Especially if you your self got in trouble or written up for the LP, or tech ration example. But to be fair if you are writing the schedule as the RXM and you schedule over the tech limit then that's your own fault and need to own that you ****ed up if the board came in and caught your hand in the cookie jar.

 

[owlegrad]

Is it really possible to follow the tech:rph ratio laws? I can't imagine doing so in FL. It would mean limiting yourself to three techs max. I would much, much rather have more help than less.

 

[Jibby321]

Is it really possible to follow the tech:rph ratio laws? I can't imagine doing so in FL. It would mean limiting yourself to three techs max. I would much, much rather have more help than less.

It's not possible at cvs. They don't give you enough RPH hours in the busy stores. Lol

 

[Chalupa_Batman86]

IMO, academia should have courses built into curiculum in business/management. Wether you like it or not if you are the RXM or the staff on duty you are the boss and need to know how to run a ship and run it well while being cognizant of the pharmacy budget/ P&L etc. This also applies to hospital practice.

Replace these dumb classes that have students playing doctor with actual business courses that properly teach folks to efficiently run ship without feeling the urge to quit after 3 months. Don't force them into an extra year of tuition and school through MBA schooling. Get rid of these stupid gimmicks and run a practical curriculum.

 

[gwarm01]

Is it really possible to follow the tech:rph ratio laws? I can't imagine doing so in FL. It would mean limiting yourself to three techs max. I would much, much rather have more help than less.

I think Florida allows you to have a higher ratio if you appeal to the board and meet certain criteria, but that might have been a hospital thing.

 

[owlegrad]

I think Florida allows you to have a higher ratio if you appeal to the board and meet certain criteria, but that might have been a hospital thing.

The default is 1:1 and you can appeal for an increase to 1:3. They were going to completely remove the ratio a year ago or so but it was outvoted.

 

[zelman]

Is it really possible to follow the tech:rph ratio laws? I can't imagine doing so in FL. It would mean limiting yourself to three techs max. I would much, much rather have more help than less.

Well, the idea of the law is that when you need 4 techs, a second pharmacist should be added. So, there is a practical solution, but it's more financially advantageous to just pay the fine instead of paying the other pharmacist.

 

[owlegrad]

Well, the idea of the law is that when you need 4 techs, a second pharmacist should be added. So, there is a practical solution, but it's more financially advantageous to just pay the fine instead of paying the other pharmacist.

Practical solution for the chain, sure, but for the pharmacist who has to decide between working with 3 techs or breaking the law?

 

[zelman]

Practical solution for the chain, sure, but for the pharmacist who has to decide between working with 3 techs or breaking the law?

You do what the dark overlords desire.

 

[owlegrad]

You do what the dark overlords desire.

The best part is when they talk about optimizing the schedule and always include a reminder to follow all applicable ratio laws. Meanwhile the schedule will want 5 or 6 techs at certain parts of the day with no overlap hours available. Sure, they definitely are nor being disingenuous at all.

 

[BenJammin]

You hold those responsible accountable. I.E you write them up for those infractions. Especially if you your self got in trouble or written up for the LP, or tech ration example. But to be fair if you are writing the schedule as the RXM and you schedule over the tech limit then that's your own fault and need to own that you ****ed up if the board came in and caught your hand in the cookie jar.

WTF? Loss prevention audits fall on the PIC. If I made a mistake, it's the responsibility of the PIC to correct it. No way would I sign a write up because of that.

 

[owlegrad]

WTF? Loss prevention audits fall on the PIC. If I made a mistake, it's the responsibility of the PIC to correct it. No way would I sign a write up because of that.

So if the staff pharmacist brings a lunch bag into the pharmacy on the PICs day off it is the PIC's fault? I don't know, I see both sides of it. To me it depends on what caused the fail. If it is something like paperwork misfiled, of course that is the PIC. If it is something that the RPh on duty is responsible for, like not having personal items in the pharmacy, then yeah writing up the RPh on duty is fair. And it really doesn't matter if they sign the write up or not. I could just put refused to sign and it is still on record.

 

[Humble Sloth]

There is a place for them to go. Outer space--I mean PIC.

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Dude i'm not even an animal rights activist or anything but I find it pretty inappropriate to reference animal abuse/cruelty as part as humor in any context.

 

[Schwimmy]

So if the staff pharmacist brings a lunch bag into the pharmacy on the PICs day off it is the PIC's fault?

Why is bringing a lunch bag a bad thing? Is that a state law somewhere?

 

[ChalupaBatman86]

Dude i'm not even an animal rights activist or anything but I find it pretty inappropriate to reference animal abuse/cruelty as part as humor in any context.

You are absolutely right. As soon as I finish these veal chops I am going to put myself in timeout and think about what I've done.

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[wagrxm2000]

WTF? Loss prevention audits fall on the PIC. If I made a mistake, it's the responsibility of the PIC to correct it. No way would I sign a write up because of that.

Am I the only one who passes everything? You guys act like a staff rph isnt competent enough to handle any task given to them.

 

[catalyzt]

Why is bringing a lunch bag a bad thing? Is that a state law somewhere?

It's not a state law. It's a risk for diversion. You can only bring lunch in clear containers. Paper lunch bags are not allowed. Non-clear plastic containers are not allowed.

 

[BenJammin]

So if the staff pharmacist brings a lunch bag into the pharmacy on the PICs day off it is the PIC's fault? I don't know, I see both sides of it. To me it depends on what caused the fail. If it is something like paperwork misfiled, of course that is the PIC. If it is something that the RPh on duty is responsible for, like not having personal items in the pharmacy, then yeah writing up the RPh on duty is fair. And it really doesn't matter if they sign the write up or not. I could just put refused to sign and it is still on record.

The PIC is responsible for everything. Not having the reference requirement and/or law book is not corporate's fault, it's the PIC's fault. Tech stealing drugs on the PIC's day off in an ingenious way is the PIC's fault. That's the way it is. Doesn't matter who is physically on duty, if your pharmacy is open then your PIC is on duty.

 

[BenJammin]

Am I the only one who passes everything? You guys act like a staff rph isnt competent enough to handle any task given to them.

Below 90% at our outpatient pharmacy is a failing score.

 

[ldiot]

$2-3k plus bonus. So $2-12k overall.

That's horrid. I was expecting at least 10k in salary plus the bonus.