Why do Dentists generally earn more than MD's?

[Smooth Operater]

Please show some mercy, and forgive me asking this question if it seems stupid to ask.

I just couldn't contemplate why most MD's (i.e family physician, internal physician) ,who usually require longer education, have bigger responsibility in ppl's lives, expose to more stress situation, and have unstable schedule, deserve lower income than general dentists? What are the justifications? Or It's always have been that way? I would like to know. Hope you guys can help me out! Thank you!!

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[JavadiCavity]

Please show some mercy, and forgive me asking this question if it seems stupid to ask.

I just couldn't contemplate why most MD's (i.e family physician, internal physician) ,who usually require longer education, have bigger responsibility in ppl's lives, expose to more stress situation, and have unstable schedule, deserve lower income than general dentists? What are the justifications? Or It's always have been that way? I would like to know. Hope you guys can help me out! Thank you!!

I think in the simplest sense that the answer is related to basic economics. MD's, dentists, plumbers, etc. make as much money as their patients/clients/customers are willing to spend for their services. Going to school for a zillion years doesn't correlate to a high income. In my experience, the more specialized your skills coupled with a limited supply of providers, tough entry into your job market by competitors, and demand for your services is a better predictor of monetary reward than education, responsibility, stress, or lifestyle.

Also, I think that managed health care pressures and out-of-control malpractice insurance costs are starting to eat away many MD's profits--problems few, if any, dentists have to deal with. I think their are issues on a variety of levels that other people may be able to address.

Honestly, this is a great topic. One that I'd love to read actual research about.

 

[dragonj]

I agree with the previous reply. # of years spent in an institute and how involved one is in their client/patients' lives doesn't mean a correlation to salary.
All CEO's of huge companies probably make more than medical doctors. I believe the richest man alive was anounced recently as being the guy who owns IKEA. Celebrities make big money and they don't need to be educated.
Of course these examples are outside of healthcare but I used them to support my point of view.
Some other reasons:
-Dentistry is more like a business
-Patients usually pay cash/credit (some insurance but it's not a problem)
-Dentists can see more patients a day because they have assistants and
hygenists
-There isn't an overabundance of dentists, so high rates can be charged
without competition. In many instances in America there is a high demand
for underserved areas.

 

[Reed1978]

I just couldn't contemplate why most MD's (i.e family physician, internal physician) ,who usually require longer education, have bigger responsibility in ppl's lives, expose to more stress situation, and have unstable schedule, deserve lower income than general dentists? What are the justifications?

Are you serious? Since when does a family physician require more schooling? And bigger responsibility? Family physicians don't do anything that a PA or pharmacist can't do. 95% of the time most people go to their doctor solely to get prescriptions for medication they could have prescribed themselves (but this isn't an advantage over dentists, because they can prescribe medication too).

General dentists make more money than GP's because they possess a real, marketable skill.

PS. You know you spelled "Operater" wrong right?

 

[coodoo]

PS. You know you spelled "Operater" wrong right?

That's not very smooth

 

[ItsGavinC]

Are you serious? Since when does a family physician require more schooling?

A family physician has a residency to fulfill. That makes it longer than the 4 years of dental school.

 

[groundhog]

HMO's and a large influx of foreign medical school graduates into a greatly expanded US residency program created by the US Congress a few years back (which has since been radically reduced).

 

[!dr_nick!]

A family physician has a residency to fulfill. That makes it longer than the 4 years of dental school.

Not to mention many family docs staff EDs as well. Lets see a dentist stabilize a trauma patient.

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

Anyone ever notice that the ones who come in the Dental Forums to rip on dentistry or put us down haven't even started med school yet? You will never get this kind of stuff out in the real world. Maybe it's just a way for these guys to let off some steam. It just seems like it's been especially bad these past few days.

And you of all people, "Dr." Nick should be a little more sympathetic toward those not privileged enough to obtain the coveted Medical Deity degree. As I recall, you are just going to be a chiropractor with prescription rights, aren't you?

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

Just for the record, everybody, I don't have anything against DOs. I go to one myself. I just have nothing better to do tonight than post inflammatory replies to these guys. You know, keep the flames fanned. I'll have to stop soon though; midterms are coming up. 🙂

 

[groundhog]

Plus its apples and oranges. Its the experience that really matters and the degree is merely the entry ticket to gain the experience. For example, if my life were on line and needed immediate attention I'd choose a veteran metropolitan EMT or veteran ER ARNP over a rookie ER resident any day of the week.

 

[honestpredent]

For these reasons

1. Most dentists own their own practice. Many physicians are payed on salaries by a hospital or an HMO like Kaiser. Therefore, most dentists can write off most of their expenses and keep whatever is left over.

2. Dentists don't pay high malpractice insurance. This is huge. Lawyers are coming after doctors like crazy. Many physicians can't afford to practice medicine because they pay so much in malpractice insurance. Dentists pay a tiny fraction of the malpractice that doctors pay. Many physician can pay as much as 200K for malpractice insurance each year depending upon their field. Typically physicians pay in excess of 30K per year just for malpractice insurance. Surgeons pay a lot more

3. Most patients that dentists see pay in cash or have insurance that reimburses well. Most dental complications are not chronic therefore, many people lack dental insurance and will pay out of pocket for dental procedures. So if a root canal is $1000 then a patient will most likely pay $1000 for it. Sure, they may get on some type of payment plan but they will eventually pay it off. In medicine, patients always pay through some type of insurance that they are on. Those insurance plans have lousy reimbursement. A medical procedure that's $1000 will probably get reimbursed 300 - 400 dollars by their insurance.

4. Dental insurance reimburses better than medical insurance. Even if patients have dental insurance, it usually offers a much higher rate of reimbursment than their medical counterparts.

5. Dental procedures are expensive. Many physicians rarely perform procedures and rely upon the cost of an office visit. Dentists don't consult with patients; write them prescriptions and then send them home. Usually the minimum dental procedure is a cleaning. Most cleanings entail X-rays which can total $150-$200 per patinet. A cleaning by itself without X-rays usually costs between $50-$100 depending upon the area of the country you live in. And cleaning are usually fully reimbursed. Whereas as office visits rarely if ever get fully reimbursed. Even if you see a specialist, his or her office visit may cost $200 but they usually only get reimbursed half that or less depending upon the type of insurance you have.

And remember, I was talking about clearnings with X-rays. Most dental procedures involve crowns, bridges, root canals, etc that are close to a $1000 dollars each. I didn't even discuss cosmetic work which can range from a total mouth reconstruction with porcelain veneers (30K) to a one or two veneers (2K-3K). Many general dentists do a lot of cosmetic work these days which is pricey.

6. Low competition from foreign dentists. U.S. educated physicians also compete with students who were trained overseas; they are called FMG's. Dentists don't face such brutal competition. Foreign trained dentists must undergo 2 years of dental school before they can practice in the United States. Some states are trying to loosen these policies like South Dakota. But in general, most states require foreign trained dentists to attend dental school for two year. In medicine, foreign trained doctors can start their residency here as long as they pass their boards. They don't need to attend a U.S. medical school. So many foreign trained physicians emigrate to the U.S. knowing they only have to take the USMLE. Most foreign trained dentists refuse to come to the U.S. knowing they must complete two years in a U.S. dental school prior to practicing. No one wants to go back to school.

 

[!dr_nick!]

Anyone ever notice that the ones who come in the Dental Forums to rip on dentistry or put us down haven't even started med school yet? You will never get this kind of stuff out in the real world. Maybe it's just a way for these guys to let off some steam. It just seems like it's been especially bad these past few days.

And you of all people, "Dr." Nick should be a little more sympathetic toward those not privileged enough to obtain the coveted Medical Deity degree. As I recall, you are just going to be a chiropractor with prescription rights, aren't you?

Huh, i make one comment and im ripping on dentistry? Whatever.
I didnt mean to be offensive, i was only responding to a previous poster stating that family docs were little more than vending machines for drugs.

 

[!dr_nick!]

PS Chiropractics is a fine profession.

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

Oh, OK. Sorry then, Nick. Misunderstood your intent. 🙂

 

[!dr_nick!]

LOL, yes well I know a lot of premeds/docs can be jerks. I happen to believe the dentists earn every penny of what they get.

I really dont want to come off as a pretentious prick!!

 

[MacGyver]

Family physicians don't do anything that a PA or pharmacist can't do.

PA? Yes

Pharmacist? Absolutely NOT! Pharmacists dont get any training at all in diagnosis, and barely get any training in pathophysiology. You cant script drugs generally speaking if you cant diagnose people.

95% of the time most people go to their doctor solely to get prescriptions for medication they could have prescribed themselves

Now this is just pure idiocy. I'll chalk this comment up to a temporary delusion.

General dentists make more money than GP's because they possess a real, marketable skill.

See above.

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

I didnt mean to be offensive, i was only responding to a previous poster stating that family docs were little more than vending machines for drugs.

Totally understandable. I know a lot of people feel that way about both phsyicians and dentists. You do something that takes 10-15 minutes and charge them $100 (well not quite that much in the school clinics 😉 ) and people say "what, you didn't even do anything?!"

Until you are actually treating patients it's hard to understand that the hard part isn't always knowing how to do something but rather knowing when and why to do it.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

PS. You know you spelled "Operater" wrong right?

HAHHAH....good call....I didnt even notice...thats classic....it really amazes me sometimes how people can have university educations, yet cant spell simple words or speak, or write well. I see it all the time and it really makes me question how valuable a university education is these days.....granted, its not like I proofread SDN posts, because SDN is informal and who really cares if words are spelled incorrectly (except in your username!!!), but Im just talking in real life...its scary.

 

[lnn2]

HAHHAH....good call....I didnt even notice...thats classic....it really amazes me sometimes how people can have university educations, yet cant spell simple words or speak, or write well. I see it all the time and it really makes me question how valuable a university education is these days.....granted, its not like I proofread SDN posts, because SDN is informal and who really cares if words are spelled incorrectly (except in your username!!!), but Im just talking in real life...its scary.

😀 😀 I agree! even college grads say "I have no etc...." instead of I don't have etc... or "I'm doing fine" instead of I'm doing well (a common mistake!)...or "I have nothing" instead of I don't have anything....and the list goes on..... 😀

 

[math_nerd]

I am sorry for asking such a stupid question, but I really don`t know. I am from Canada and here dentist make more. The earnings of physicians are capped by the government because the government pays their salaries. However, I thought that because medicine is privatised in the US, general physicians made more than dentists (general). No one ever said so, I just assumed. Does anyone know for sure. (By the way, I am talking about averages. I know that it`s all relative and doesn`t apply in every single case.)

 

[math_nerd]

There is no comparison between dentistry and medicine. It is like comparing apples to bananas. The two fields are separate and, thus, it makes sense that members in one may earn more than members in another (on average).

Speaking of earnings, I do not think physicians need to worry about money. And, if dentists make more, who cares? There are lots of people/professions earning more than physicians and dentists. Just look around.

Moreover, no one can really take physicians or dentists for granted. MD`s are vital. Moreover, if anyone thinks that the work of a DDS does not matter, get a simple tooth ache and then say it. By watching television for just one hour, you will probably encounter a dozen ads for dentally related products.

Anyway, I think that as time passes, more and more people are starting to see medicine and dentistry in a new light. The ?tension?/?rivalry? between dentistry and medicine is disappearing because really, no one gives a $%*!. So lets all get along and be extremely grateful that we got into these professions. 🙂 🙂 👍 👍 😍

 

[ItsGavinC]

😀 😀 I agree! even college grads say "I have no etc...." instead of I don't have etc... .or "I have nothing" instead of I don't have anything....and the list goes on..... 😀

Actually, both of those phrases ("I have no/I have nothing") are perfectly acceptable! The major conflict with those only arises when used as double negatives ("I do not have nothing" is incorrect and should substitute the word "anything"). Yet still, the double negative is perfectly acceptable in other languages.

Your other comment about well/fine is correct. We "do well" and "feel fine".

 

[ItsGavinC]

Moreover, no one can really take physicians or dentists for granted. MD`s are vital. Moreover, if anyone thinks that the work of a DDS does not matter, get a simple tooth ache and then say it.

Which is what is interesting about our two professions. Our scopes don't infringe upon each other (except in the rare case of ENT/OMS).

The same cannot be said by NPs, PAs, etc., who it seems are attempting to branch out and make vast inroads into the medical profession.

Dentistry is the only healthcare specialty with no direct ties to the medical profession in terms of practicing. In other words, it's the only area of practice which physicians legally have no realm over.

 

[MacGyver]

Dentistry is the only healthcare specialty with no direct ties to the medical profession in terms of practicing. In other words, it's the only area of practice which physicians legally have no realm over.

This comment requires further investigation.

Its true in a purely technical sense, but its also false in the sense that the field of NURSING is not regulated by doctors.

The NPs have played a dirty trick on doctors. What they did is (in some states) got a state board of nursing which has SOLE authority over the practice of nurses. Of course, state nursing boards are run by nurses.

The trick they played was that they got the power/authority to define NURSING as whatever the STATE NURSING BOARD SAYS that it is, with absolutely zero oversight/approval required by doctors. For example, if they define "nursing" as diagnosing and scripting drugs, then bingo its the law. Once that happens, doctors have no control over what the NPs do.

Some states require that the medical scopes for all healthcare workers are agreed upon by both medical AND nursing boards. In this type of system, doctors have some control over what the NPs can and cant do.

Lets face it. Medical doctors have something that EVERY OTHER HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONAL WANTS. Even the dentists are seeking to expand scope into previously held MD "turf." I count at least 6 distinct classes of medical workers that are at war with MDs over turf battles:

NPs
PAs
Chiropractors
Naturopaths
Physical Therapists
Psychologists (PHD only)

Its clear that MDs hold the keys to medical kingdom, and now the serfs are storming the castle. Hell they've already broke thru in some places and are now threatening to burn down the keep.

 

[lnn2]

Actually, both of those phrases ("I have no/I have nothing") are perfectly acceptable! The major conflict with those only arises when used as double negatives ("I do not have nothing" is incorrect and should substitute the word "anything"). Yet still, the double negative is perfectly acceptable in other languages.

Your other comment about well/fine is correct. We "do well" and "feel fine".

Well, not correct according to my undergrad english professor. It's acceptable for using in a daily conversation but not in literature!
let's try this one: I have no car; it doesn't sound very smooth, does it?!

but then again, I'm not an english major so who knows 😉

 

[boboli_chef]

Well, not correct according to my undergrad english professor. It's acceptable for using in a daily conversation but not in literature!
let's try this one: I have no car; it doesn't sound very smooth, does it!

but then again, I'm not an english major so who knows 😉

It's correct, though. Just replace "car" with something you'd more commonly see, like "idea" or "experience", and you'll find the smooth factor increase and the grammatical correctness remain constant. 👍

 

[Reed1978]

Quote:
Posted by MacGyver

Pharmacists dont get any training at all in diagnosis, and barely get any training in pathophysiology. You cant script drugs generally speaking if you cant diagnose people.


Well, your 2000+ posts on these forums are certainly a testament to the fact that you're a complete turd and that you live on this site - so I really can't contend with your reply.

Ibid. Family doctors can't do anything that a PA or pharmacist can't do.

 

[lnn2]

Quote:
...you're a complete turd and that you live on this site - so I really can't contend with your reply.

😀

You can't polish a turd! and once a turd, always a turd 😀
Yes, they're copyrighted. I expect royalties if anyone else uses them 😀

 

[MacGyver]

Quote:
Well, your 2000+ posts on these forums are certainly a testament to the fact that you're a complete turd and that you live on this site - so I really can't contend with your reply.

you really cant contend with it because you are flat out wrong and dont have the facts or evidence to back up your ridiculous claim. It has nothing to do with being a "turd" or "living on this site." Nice ad hominem though.

Ibid. Family doctors can't do anything that a PA or pharmacist can't do.

I'll say it again: PAs? Yes. Pharmacists? Hell no.