Why do i need shadowing/clinical hours

[Loveneko]

So question, I'm a Nurse on a Cardiac/Oncology. I've been working in hospitals for 5 years. I know intimately what physicians do and how they do it and I collaborate with them on a daily basis (and there is very little, if any difference between a physician and a nurse when it comes to determining the best course of treatment for a patient, i mean Afterall I AM with the patient for a cool 13 hours and I'm not just there talking about "feelings".
Do i need unpaid shadowing hours? Seems a little redundant but i might be incorrect and if so I'll ask one of our doctors if they wouldn't mind me tagging along for free.

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[el_duderino]

I think shadowing hours would probably be a good idea, because it's different working as a nurse vs spending the entire day with the physician. As a nurse you have a bunch of things you're responsible for to keep you occupied without getting a good understanding of the daily life of the physician. It would also be a good way to get experience with different types of specialties - you could shadow someone in the ER, or a dermatologist, or a psychiatrist, and get exposed to types of medicine you haven't seen clinically. So it would be a good idea for you to shadow; shadowing one of your own docs is fine but it would certainly behoove you to shadow other types as well.

I don't think you'd need to do anything specifically to boost "clinical" hours. You've obviously had tons of direct patient interaction, so you know what it's like dealing with sick people.

You will want to have some volunteering on your application. Also, I suggest you avoid any "I AM with the patient for hours and there's very little difference between a nurse and physician when it comes to blah blah" talk on the app or in an interview. I don't think adcoms or MDs want to hear a nurse talking about how they're practically the same

 

[Loveneko]

I think shadowing hours would probably be a good idea, because it's different working as a nurse vs spending the entire day with the physician. As a nurse you have a bunch of things you're responsible for to keep you occupied without getting a good understanding of the daily life of the physician. It would also be a good way to get experience with different types of specialties - you could shadow someone in the ER, or a dermatologist, or a psychiatrist, and get exposed to types of medicine you haven't seen clinically. So it would be a good idea for you to shadow; shadowing one of your own docs is fine but it would certainly behoove you to shadow other types as well.

I don't think you'd need to do anything specifically to boost "clinical" hours. You've obviously had tons of direct patient interaction, so you know what it's like dealing with sick people.

You will want to have some volunteering on your application. Also, I suggest you avoid any "I AM with the patient for hours and there's very little difference between a nurse and physician when it comes to blah blah" talk on the app or in an interview. I don't think adcoms or MDs want to hear a nurse talking about how they're practically the same

Thank you for your response.
I just wanted to clarify though, i did not mean we are the same in the way it came off to you i meant we work simultaneously to the same goal, the health of the patient.
For example i had a pt in ICU the doc kept ordering hypotonic saline but the pts sodium level was like 120 and naturally hours k level dropped too. Caught him, questioned the hypotonic prescription and then had a explain to him why iso or hyper would be the better remedy because the patient was loopy as all hell because his brain was swelling. Then we addressed the potassium issue and like a check and balance system we work together to solve problems.
I would never, as an aspiring physician assume i know as much. I am well educated and a capable balance to a doctor's checks, but i am not a doctor.

 

[LongTimeLurk]

So question, I'm a Nurse on a Cardiac/Oncology. I've been working in hospitals for 5 years. I know intimately what physicians do and how they do it and I collaborate with them on a daily basis (and there is very little, if any difference between a physician and a nurse when it comes to determining the best course of treatment for a patient, i mean Afterall I AM with the patient for a cool 13 hours and I'm not just there talking about "feelings".
Do i need unpaid shadowing hours? Seems a little redundant but i might be incorrect and if so I'll ask one of our doctors if they wouldn't mind me tagging along for free.

Stay away from this attitude. difference is years of training. be prepared for question of why medicine if you are already so involved w/patient care.

shadowing is super easy for you to accomplish. just use your lunch hour (or come in early, stay late) to follow around a doc. you still need letters from docs

 

[Loveneko]

Stay away from this attitude. difference is years of training. be prepared for question of why medicine if you are already so involved w/patient care.


shadowing is super easy for you to accomplish. just use your lunch hour (or come in early, stay late) to follow around a doc. you still need letters from docs

Also see post above.

I know there's some conflict between nurses and doctors that makes people feel that when a nurse states she HAS been educated in the basics of anatomy physiology biochemistry pathophysiology pharmacology and health assessment that she is saying she's the same as a doctor.

I never compared myself to a doctor. I am well aware of the difference between the fields and the education necessary. But people need to recognize we are taught to know what's right in a body and what's wrong. If you can't see that then you should ask yourself exactly what does a nurse do and what does she learn in undergrad.

But i do value your opinion in regards to shadowing.

 

[akinetopsia]

I have the highest respect for nurses. My aunt's been a critical care nurse for over 30 years. That being said, be careful how you come off in your application & interviews, as other people have said. Arrogance is a red flag in applicants, and that's how it comes off when you say (paraphrase), "I know what doctors do, I'm a nurse and work along side them for 13 hour shifts over x years." If I were you, I'd shadow outside of the hospital, with probably a family practice physician, internist, or pediatrician, and also another doctor in a non-PC specialty.

It's oversimplifying things a bit to say there's no difference in determining the best course of treatment for a patient between a doctor & a nurse. If that's the case, why make the switch to be a doctor when you're already a nurse? However, good nurses save doctors all the time, like if dosages aren't calculated correctly (example: bioavailability of something IV vs PO), and the nurse catches it and tactfully says, "Hey doc, didn't you mean to give x dose instead of y dose?"

 

[LongTimeLurk]

Also see post above.

I know there's some conflict between nurses and doctors that makes people feel that when a nurse states she HAS been educated in the basics of anatomy physiology biochemistry pathophysiology pharmacology and health assessment that she is saying she's the same as a doctor.

I never compared myself to a doctor. I am well aware of the difference between the fields and the education necessary. But people need to recognize we are taught to know what's right in a body and what's wrong. If you can't see that then you should ask yourself exactly what does a nurse do and what does she learn in undergrad.

But i do value your opinion in regards to shadowing.

I find myself questioning nursing education in this country everyday.

(I'm just kidding, of course)

 

[alpinism]

So question, I'm a Nurse on a Cardiac/Oncology. I've been working in hospitals for 5 years. I know intimately what physicians do and how they do it and I collaborate with them on a daily basis (and there is very little, if any difference between a physician and a nurse when it comes to determining the best course of treatment for a patient, i mean Afterall I AM with the patient for a cool 13 hours and I'm not just there talking about "feelings".
Do i need unpaid shadowing hours? Seems a little redundant but i might be incorrect and if so I'll ask one of our doctors if they wouldn't mind me tagging along for free.

Also see post above.

I know there's some conflict between nurses and doctors that makes people feel that when a nurse states she HAS been educated in the basics of anatomy physiology biochemistry pathophysiology pharmacology and health assessment that she is saying she's the same as a doctor.

I never compared myself to a doctor. I am well aware of the difference between the fields and the education necessary. But people need to recognize we are taught to know what's right in a body and what's wrong. If you can't see that then you should ask yourself exactly what does a nurse do and what does she learn in undergrad.

But i do value your opinion in regards to shadowing.

You don't need any more clinical hours. However, based on your posts you should absolutely shadow if anything to get a better idea of what a doctor actually does. Yes, you're with 1 patient for 13hrs, however during residency doctors can be responsible for up to 40-50 patients for over 30 hrs at a time. Its a completely different job. No one is saying nurses aren't educated in science and medical care, however its at a much more basic and superficial level than medical school/residency/fellowship. I can say this having been a paramedic and taken nursing courses prior to medical school.

 

[Indianarn]

I am an RN from last three years and just got accepted to an Osteopathic Medical School. I shadowed 4 docs all in different specialties. Due to my RN experience, I didn't have to shadow each for like 100 hours, all I did was 10-16 hours and most of them I knew from work or in other ways. They gave me excellent LOR. The reason you want to do it is to see how a physician actually works from office to interacting with patients in different settings. This will show that you know what you are getting into and you are prepared for it. As far as how you questioned a doc, all good. I understand everyone makes mistakes and that's why that check is there. Nurses do get educated in all of the things you said, but no way near what you are going to go through in the future. Though related at the hip, both are different careers with some what of a different philosophy. My uncle is a doctor, and he has been telling me to change my attitude of a nurse as I get ready to start medical school. Nothing is wrong with that attitude, just have to have a different presence as a doctor. Hope you understood.

 

[Loveneko]

I am an RN from last three years and just got accepted to an Osteopathic Medical School. I shadowed 4 docs all in different specialties. Due to my RN experience, I didn't have to shadow each for like 100 hours, all I did was 10-16 hours and most of them I knew from work or in other ways. They gave me excellent LOR. The reason you want to do it is to see how a physician actually works from office to interacting with patients in different settings. This will show that you know what you are getting into and you are prepared for it. As far as how you questioned a doc, all good. I understand everyone makes mistakes and that's why that check is there. Nurses do get educated in all of the things you said, but no way near what you are going to go through in the future. Though related at the hip, both are different careers with some what of a different philosophy. My uncle is a doctor, and he has been telling me to change my attitude of a nurse as I get ready to start medical school. Nothing is wrong with that attitude, just have to have a different presence as a doctor. Hope you understood.

Thank you, i find your reply most helpful and would certainly enjoy looking into fields i may not have seen in nursing school like dermatology, radiology, etc and sprinkle more primary care because that is what i would like to do.

Thank you

 

[wholeheartedly]

Just a note to a few of the posts above. Some adcoms on here say they don't place much value in letters from physicians where they know you in just a shadowing capacity. Lizzy M has some comments about this.

You definitely want the shadowing. It'll help you see the other facets of what doctors do when you aren't around them and will let you see areas outside of things you've been exposed to by checking out other specialties.

Clinical experience is to see if you like working in a clinical setting and working with real live patients. I think you've got that covered.

Volunteering is to show you're dedicated to service and helping others, so that's one you need. Long term is best. Doesn't have to be clinical if you've got that covered elsewhere, so pick something you enjoy like tutoring kids, coaching volleyball etc.

Agree with others to be careful how your words come across to others when you discuss your interest and experiences in medicine.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

So question, I'm a Nurse on a Cardiac/Oncology. I've been working in hospitals for 5 years. I know intimately what physicians do and how they do it and I collaborate with them on a daily basis (and there is very little, if any difference between a physician and a nurse when it comes to determining the best course of treatment for a patient, i mean Afterall I AM with the patient for a cool 13 hours and I'm not just there talking about "feelings".
Do i need unpaid shadowing hours? Seems a little redundant but i might be incorrect and if so I'll ask one of our doctors if they wouldn't mind me tagging along for free.

No, you don't need to do more clinically. The only benefit to shadowing would be for other specialties you may not come across regularly, but for you, that's not a requirement.