Why do I read on here that 3rd/4th year are the worst

[Ho0v-man]

---

Members don't see this ad.

M3 was friggin dope. You get to run around and play doctor, call the shots, and hang with residents.

The students who have a hard time either 1) have trouble with shelves, 2) are not easy to get along with, 3) have never had a job (and lack professionalism), or 4) whine all friggin day.

Not “hard” just pointless feeling sometimes. Just feels like it’d be more efficient if there was like 2 more months max in the classroom to do the shelf stuff and then just do your rotations. I feel like without shelf stuff looming I’d be able to focus on stuff specific to my rotation/being a doctor.

But yeah, monumentally better than the first two years so far!

 

[differentiating]

Having to worry about shelves was the worst part about M3. Finding time/desire to study was sometimes hard. For me, my hours weren’t bad for the most part since I worked with reasonable residents/attendings who acknowledged there was nothing for the students to do. Exceptions obviously surgery which was 6-5 a lot (but i was leaving 2-3 some days) and OB.

Oh wow... at my school, 6-5 was the regular/easy rotation schedule, and the harder subspecialties were like 5-7. 12 hour days were considered standard.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

I’ve noticed the people who didn’t like M1/M2 were those who studied like 6+ hours a day. Yeah, of course 6 hours of clinic is better than 6 hours of studying. But for many of us there’s no way spending every waking moment in the hospital beats the freedom and leisure time of the first 2 years.

 

[Dantes]

I’ve noticed the people who didn’t like M1/M2 were those who studied like 6+ hours a day. Yeah, of course 6 hours of clinic is better than 6 hours of studying. But for many of us there’s no way spending every waking moment in the hospital beats the freedom and leisure time of the first 2 years.

Depends on the school curriculum I suppose. I feel like I have zero free time second year.

 

[ciestar]

Oh wow... at my school, 6-5 was the regular/easy rotation schedule, and the harder subspecialties were like 5-7. 12 hour days were considered standard.

Yeah I got lucky.

 

[efle]

M3 was friggin dope. You get to run around and play doctor, call the shots, and hang with residents.

The students who have a hard time either 1) have trouble with shelves, 2) are not easy to get along with, 3) have never had a job (and lack professionalism), or 4) whine all friggin day.

Having to worry about shelves was the worst part about M3. Finding time/desire to study was sometimes hard. For me, my hours weren’t bad for the most part since I worked with reasonable residents/attendings who acknowledged there was nothing for the students to do. Exceptions obviously surgery which was 6-5 a lot (but i was leaving 2-3 some days) and OB.

Lmao if this is what my M3 experience was like I'd be loving life too. I worked a full time 9-5 job in research before med school, and M3 so far is worse on many fronts:

1) far, far more hours. Night shifts. Weekend shifts. Friends are also on crazy schedules so it's very hard to hang out like you used to.
2) way more boring and lame work during those hours (e.g. most recently, manipulating the uterus and staring at the laparoscopy screens for 10 hours/day for weeks). Many hours or even days at a time pass by without needing to use my brain.
3) I feel like my performance is going to be evaluated the same whether I put in 70% effort or 110% effort, and shelves are only a tiny fraction of our final grade, so I have very little motivation to push myself in my daily med student tasks or my independent learning
4) A lot of terrible personalities. During preclinical it's easy to find your group of people you enjoy and spend time mostly with them. On the wards, if you get a super intense, mirthless, workaholic dingus as your attending/chief/resident you're stuck with that, day after day.
5) No autonomy in your life any more. You're told where to go, what to do, how to do it, when to leave, when to eat...

I'm sure there's more stuff I'm missing. It's absolutely bonkers to me that anybody would, in a Groundhog Day scenario, choose to relive M3 over and over compared to M1, M2, or working 9-5.

 

[Lawpy]

Lmao if this is what my M3 experience was like I'd be loving life too. I worked a full time 9-5 job in research before med school, and M3 so far is worse on many fronts:

1) far, far more hours. Night shifts. Weekend shifts. Friends are also on crazy schedules so it's very hard to hang out like you used to.
2) way more boring and lame work during those hours (e.g. most recently, manipulating the uterus and staring at the laparoscopy screens for 10 hours/day for weeks). Many hours or even days at a time pass by without needing to use my brain.
3) I feel like my performance is going to be evaluated the same whether I put in 70% effort or 110% effort, and shelves are only a tiny fraction of our final grade, so I have very little motivation to push myself in my daily med student tasks or my independent learning
4) A lot of terrible personalities. During preclinical it's easy to find your group of people you enjoy and spend time mostly with them. On the wards, if you get a super intense, mirthless, workaholic dingus as your attending/chief/resident you're stuck with that, day after day.
5) No autonomy in your life any more. You're told where to go, what to do, how to do it, when to leave, when to eat...

I'm sure there's more stuff I'm missing. It's absolutely bonkers to me that anybody would, in a Groundhog Day scenario, choose to relive M3 over and over compared to M1, M2, or working 9-5.

Maybe they got lucky in getting to work with chill and lenient attendings?

 

[ciestar]

Maybe they got lucky in getting to work with chill and lenient attendings?

I did.
They realized me sitting on my hands was of no use to anyone.

And now, my top choice for residency is the place I had my 3rd year rotation.

 

[odyssey2]

It really comes down to personality type. The more introverted types who don't mind sitting and studying for long periods of time don't mind the M1/M2 grind but get overwhelmed by the demands and multitasking required in M3, while the extroverted gung-ho types are tortured by sitting for hours on end and see M3 as a relief. These types also seem to choose different specialties at the end.

 

[ciestar]

It really comes down to personality type. The more introverted types who don't mind sitting and studying for long periods of time don't mind the M1/M2 grind but get overwhelmed by the demands and multitasking required in M3, while the extroverted gung-ho types are tortured by sitting for hours on end and see M3 as a relief. These types also seem to choose different specialties at the end.

Im mega introverted but, i still struggled in preclinical because i had zero friends from my school so i was incredibly lonely all the time. Some social interaction really helps life.

 

[Coltuna]

I hate to derail this thread but any advice for someone who goes to a school that 3rd year "grades" are completely dependent on the shelf exam? You obviously have to do enough to "pass" the rotation in the eyes of the preceptor but as far as pass vs high pass vs honors, that's completely determined by shelf.

 

[mistafab]

As I said, M3 can be tough for people like #4 in my post.

Lmao if this is what my M3 experience was like I'd be loving life too. I worked a full time 9-5 job in research before med school, and M3 so far is worse on many fronts:

1) far, far more hours. Night shifts. Weekend shifts. Friends are also on crazy schedules so it's very hard to hang out like you used to.
2) way more boring and lame work during those hours (e.g. most recently, manipulating the uterus and staring at the laparoscopy screens for 10 hours/day for weeks). Many hours or even days at a time pass by without needing to use my brain.
3) I feel like my performance is going to be evaluated the same whether I put in 70% effort or 110% effort, and shelves are only a tiny fraction of our final grade, so I have very little motivation to push myself in my daily med student tasks or my independent learning
4) A lot of terrible personalities. During preclinical it's easy to find your group of people you enjoy and spend time mostly with them. On the wards, if you get a super intense, mirthless, workaholic dingus as your attending/chief/resident you're stuck with that, day after day.
5) No autonomy in your life any more. You're told where to go, what to do, how to do it, when to leave, when to eat...

I'm sure there's more stuff I'm missing. It's absolutely bonkers to me that anybody would, in a Groundhog Day scenario, choose to relive M3 over and over compared to M1, M2, or working 9-5.

 

[mistafab]

Absolutely. Shelves are the toughest/hardest part. Then you get to your Sub-I, work twice as hard, but have way more fun. Not having a test hanging over head completely changes the game.

Having to worry about shelves was the worst part about M3. Finding time/desire to study was sometimes hard. For me, my hours weren’t bad for the most part since I worked with reasonable residents/attendings who acknowledged there was nothing for the students to do. Exceptions obviously surgery which was 6-5 a lot (but i was leaving 2-3 some days) and OB.

 

[mistafab]

Let step 2 ck Zanki + uworld deliver you to the promise land. Amen

I hate to derail this thread but any advice for someone who goes to a school that 3rd year "grades" are completely dependent on the shelf exam? You obviously have to do enough to "pass" the rotation in the eyes of the preceptor but as far as pass vs high pass vs honors, that's completely determined by shelf.

 

[ciestar]

I hate to derail this thread but any advice for someone who goes to a school that 3rd year "grades" are completely dependent on the shelf exam? You obviously have to do enough to "pass" the rotation in the eyes of the preceptor but as far as pass vs high pass vs honors, that's completely determined by shelf.

My school does this. Utilize your qbanks. If you’re a reader... some books are better than others. I did fine wirhout.

Edit: also Zanki

 

[efle]

As I said, M3 can be tough for people like #4 in my post.

Alternatively, it could be that your experience was very different than the norm. The fact that you thought a little reading on the side for shelves was the worst part is pretty telling.

What kind of employment were you doing full time before med school? Interested to hear what gig you had that was tougher for you than MS3

 

[Lawpy]