Why do people care so much about politics?

Started by BMBiology
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BMBiology

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Every 2 years, our politicians get everyone all excited. For what? Political gains. Remember the Ebola virus 2 years ago?

I have benefited from every presidency from Bush crashing the economy to 0bama disaster healthcare plan. Now Trump wants to give me a tax cut? Hell yeah. I am not going to spend that money of course. I am just going to put it in my pocket.

At the end of the day it is about putting food on the table. It doesn't matter who is president. You are going to benefit from it. You just need to know how to play the game.


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I don't understand the hysteria either. Everyone was saying they'd move out of the country or felt sad/disappointed/angry etc if Trump won. I ask them how that will affect their lives and they don't have an answer.

When Obama was in office my health care premium tripled and I had to pay a $500 penalty for not having health insurance for a couple months. That's the only way I was affected by the previous president.
 
A lot of people totally lose their mind over social issues. I personally couldn't give a **** less, I just want less taxes and less government involvement. I don't want some political hack picking winners and losers and deciding who has too much or too little. Socialism and central planners are a threat to my financial goals.

Plus you have to keep in mind a lot of people made their living in industrial manufacturing which is being outsourced and a lot of college graduate are making 8 dollars and hour (not saying it isn't their own fault for spending 50k on an art degree but still...)
 
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https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51308.From_Mutual_Aid_to_the_Welfare_State

If you actually look at "Private Lives of Americans" prior to WWI, most Americans were apolitical and disengaged to the point of isolationism unless they had something specific in mind (patronage or land rights). Wilson had to drag an American public in kicking and screaming. The response to the WWI draft were along the lines of "WTH are you? What federal government?" The first steps to participation were a bunch of people got veteran benefits that tied them to federal government. Because until the New Deal, most everyone did not deal with the federal government directly. Income tax was only assessed on very high incomes, there was no SSN, pretty much the only interaction you had with the secular authorities is if you were an immigrant and the entry points. Veterans benefits (a different form of entitlement but also came with a conscription order) and entitlement programs change this attitude.

On the other hand, you bet your life that before the New Deal, you belonged to a church, and you did care very much about church politics, because how that collection money got used and how the parsonage was maintained and what charities were allocated from the church as you would be an eventual beneficiary of them. If you did not belong to a church, and inevitably had one of life's great disasters (loss of a job, someone gets sick, your house burns down), the resulting domino effect usually meant you and your family died if not for church charity. Your life depended on church membership, and you certainly believed in a benevolent God if only for the cynical reason that you needed the community who believed in the same God to survive. The reason why we can all be atheists in the present era is due to the New Deal and later Great Society, where the functions formerly covered by charity (care for the sick and aged, food security, poor relief) became functions of the federal government rather than the church. But to pay for those benefits, the taxes were extended down to very low income workers, so now due to the interactions of being a beneficiary and a payer, we all interact with the federal government to some degree.

At the end of the day it is about putting food on the table. It doesn't matter who is president. You are going to benefit from it. You just need to know how to play the game.

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I disagree as it can matter who is president, when we have one that actually changes the rules of the bureaucracy game as it trickles down to you in observable ways. FDR (creating the bureaucracy for economic and judicial policy), LBJ (expanded the bureaucracy into social policy), Nixon (expanded the bureaucracy into scientific policy), Reagan (expanded the military bureaucracy and made the civil service more accountable to the OMB), Clinton (expanded the bureaucracy by shifting civil service into contractor positions), GW Bush (expanded the bureaucracy into internal security). I actually think Hillary would have been one of those who would have changed the rules of the bureaucracy yet again. I'm not sure on Trump as I don't think anyone really has a handle of what he's capable of.

We all owe our jobs to LBJ at some level (both directly as a matter of health care reimbursement, but also indirectly from tax treatment and infrastructure construction via HCFA/CMS), and we owe the way we are paid from day to day to Reagan. If a Chris Christie shows up who is savvy enough to tear into the bureaucracy, that'll be another interesting day, and that day is soon coming if not Trump.

I'm looking forward though to the Trump tax cuts on the back of the poor. We do benefit from this, but it's a short term personal gain for a long term societal loss.
 
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I am predicting:

Trump wants a quick win so infrastructure, tax will be the first one to pass.

He then will want to renegotiate trade deals with China, Japan, Mexico. I can see him making a deal with China - he will get a better trade deal in return for the control of the South China Sea or something similar. However, the Chinese will not be pushed around even if it hurts them. I can see countries like Japan and Korea making a deal with China and become less reliance on the U.S.

Mexico will not have many options. They will work something out with the U.S which means things will become more expensive in the U.S

He will push for the wall. That is a given but that won't happen until he take care of the economy.




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He will want to act fast. If he tumble, democrats and even republicans will go on the attack. The democrats will use their filibuster earlier and hard. Remember, he is not popular. People voted for him because the alternative is Hillary and her husband.


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The first thing he will do is undo all of Obama's executive orders. Next in line I would imagine is Obamacare and the wall... it's looking like he will keep some parts of Obamacare such as preexisting conditions but the actual insurance exchange is probably gone. I think he would get the wall through congress easily but it will probably take a long time to get into motion with the EPA and dealing with all the private property that would probably have to be bought. Lowering taxes will be easy. God only knows what will happen with foreign policy and trade... both could end up a disaster.

His cabinet will tell the story. Is Trump going to engulf the republican establishment or is the republican establishment going to engulf Trump? My main concerns are Russia and trade. I hope he realizes that Putin is not our friend.
 
To be able to say that you don't care about politics usually means that you're either complacent and not aspiring for a more perfect union, or you have an incredible amount of privilege where you do not have to worry about the government obstructing your way of life and safety, i.e. you have access to all your necessities without depending on the government (almost impossible unless you have a lot of money or you are an able-bodied off-the-grid survivalist, in which case you probs wouldn't be on SDN right now), and you aren't constantly experiencing violence without much recourse from government authorities (not to mention that in some cases the acts of violence are committed by the authorities themselves).
 
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I'm not worried about Trump, I'm more worried about his idiot followers (not the intellectual ones).

You know, the ones that tell "Go back to China!" to Asian people getting gas at a gas station, or people randomly ripping off hijabs and telling kids that look brown that they're going to get deported.


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I'm not worried about Trump, I'm more worried about his idiot followers (not the intellectual ones).

You know, the ones that tell "Go back to China!" to Asian people getting gas at a gas station, or people randomly ripping off hijabs and telling kids that look brown that they're going to get deported.


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Exactly. I fear for the direction our country is headed.
 
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I'm not worried about Trump, I'm more worried about his idiot followers (not the intellectual ones).

You know, the ones that tell "Go back to China!" to Asian people getting gas at a gas station, or people randomly ripping off hijabs and telling kids that look brown that they're going to get deported.


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Almost every one of the stories you are quoting have been debunked. It's pathetic people make crap up for attention and to divide further when they are upset. It's spread like wildfire on social media, mama always said you can't believe everything you read on the internet
 
I don't know why so many people are worried about Trump.

Our whole system is set up to protect the minority from the Electoral College to 60 votes in the Senate is needed to stop a filibuster.

Trump is probably the closest third party candidate we have so far. He used the Republican Party as a host and he took away democrat votes. Look at what he wants to do - infrastructure spending, taxing the very rich, preserving part of Obamacare. Those things are not republican ideas. Those are democrats.

Yeah he played on the white votes and yes, there are people who think they are entitled to certain things. But you know what? F*ck them. If they can't compete, they are going down. That is how the system works.


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I'm not worried about Trump, I'm more worried about his idiot followers (not the intellectual ones).

You know, the ones that tell "Go back to China!" to Asian people getting gas at a gas station, or people randomly ripping off hijabs and telling kids that look brown that they're going to get deported.


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I have to repost this:

You: I am an American!
They: No, you are not.

You: Yes, I am! I was born here. I speak your language.
They: No

You: I adopted your culture. I have assimilated! I have been Americanized
They: Sorry, you are not an American!

You see how stupid this is? There are people who think they are entitled to certain things because their ancestors got here before you did. They will never accept you. They are just telling you what they really think of you. But so what? They are not going to last. That is how it works in this country.

In the long run, the only thing that matters is your ability to compete. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow doesn't think you belong in this country so there is no need for you to adopt to his culture and there is certainly no need for you to try to gain his acceptance. So who cares? You do your thing and let natural selection do its things.



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......

In the long run, the only thing that matters is your ability to compete. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow doesn't think you belong in this country so there is no need for you to adopt to his culture and there is certainly no need for you to try to gain his acceptance. So who cares? You do your thing and let natural selection do its things.

Would have been very true if it all ended as their "thoughts."

When it involves verbal and physical abuse, as they case may seem in several places within the past few days, that's a new low that calls for serious worries.
 
Would have been very true if it all ended as their "thoughts."

When it involves verbal and physical abuse, as they case may seem in several places within the past few days, that's a new low that calls for serious worries.

So fight back. Who is stopping you?

Do you really think these people didn't exist before Trump got elected? Don't think they are just the uneducated ones. They are educated and they will never accept you as one of their own.


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So fight back. Who is stopping you?

Do you really think these people didn't exist before Trump got elected? Don't think they are just the uneducated ones. They are educated and they will never accept you as one of their own.


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I think you misunderstood my point. I am not advocating for violence should be met with violence.

I am merely making a case as to why affected individuals are really worried, and cannot simply just "do their things and let natural selection do its things."

And I also find it interesting that you quickly assigned me into the affected group. No matter. Hatred has never recognized the educational status of its host.

Trump got elected partly for catalyzing the unleashing of such hate to a degree. I mean, what else gave someone the boldness to scream to another, "Go back to your country, this is Trump's America?"
 
I have to repost this:

In the long run, the only thing that matters is your ability to compete. It doesn't matter if Joe Blow doesn't think you belong in this country so there is no need for you to adopt to his culture and there is certainly no need for you to try to gain his acceptance. So who cares? You do your thing and let natural selection do its things.

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What do you consider the determining factors for one's ability to compete?
 
Brain power. A lot of hard work and some luck.


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I agree those things are key factors. I would also maybe add physical and mental health to that list. Now digging a little deeper - what determines the ability to develop brain power, to have opportunities for hard work, and to increase chances of experiencing good luck?
 
I agree those things are key factors. I would also maybe add physical and mental health to that list. Now digging a little deeper - what determines the ability to develop brain power, to have opportunities for hard work, and to increase chances of experiencing good luck?

I don't know and frankly, I don't care.

If you don't have the same opportunity as the guy sitting next to you then you need to be smarter and you need to work harder than him just to compete with him. That is how society works.


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I don't know and frankly, I don't care.

If you don't have the same opportunity as the guy sitting next to you then you need to be smarter and you need to work harder than him just to compete with him. That is how society works.


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I think you do know, since you have been able to outcompete a lot of people in society, and I would also garner that you care, since I assume you would like to continue to compete well.

And yes, you're correct that if I don't have the same opportunity as the guy sitting next to me I have to be smarter and work harder to compete with him. I might also start to question why I don't have the same opportunity as the guy sitting next to me, and I might start to question why society works in a way that makes me work harder than the guy sitting next to me just so I can reap the same reward he does. I will start to wonder if there is a different way for society to work so as not to disadvantage people such as myself in ways that seem arbitrary and not based on merit or ability.

Here's an extreme example - if the government decides to forcibly remove me from my home and ship me thousands of miles away to an internment camp because my parents were born in Japan, that would put me in a great disadvantage to be able to compete. My brain power, hard work, good health, and any other characteristic will not help me avoid this very catastrophic situation. I suppose you could file this under not having "luck" since I was unlucky enough to be born to Japanese parents. I could eventually overcome this situation if I am resilient enough and don't continue to suffer from even more "bad luck," but being imprisoned in an interment camp certainly impedes my ability to further develop brain power, to have opportunities for hard work, and to increase chances of experiencing good luck.

Does society really have to work this way? Where governments imprison people, take away their property and their freedom of movement practically overnight, just because of some arbitrary factor that the person doesn't have control over to begin with?

Because of real lessons that history has taught us, I care about what my neighbors think of me, what people who can vote think of me, and what the politicians they vote into office think of me. Because it can gravely impact my ability to compete. That's why I care about Joe Blow. Because many fascists started off as a Joe Blow. Because many fascists needed Joe Blows to gain power to begin with. These things don't just happen in a vacuum or out of nowhere.
 
Why does Trump want to keep the law on pre-existing conditions? It's like being able to buy car insurance after you wreck your car and getting it replaced for free. That's not insurance. Why should a healthy person pay insurance their whole life when they can just wait until they get a diagnosis to buy it instead? This is the kind of stuff that inflates premiums and if anything actually limits access and creates cost barriers
 
I think you do know, since you have been able to outcompete a lot of people in society, and I would also garner that you care, since I assume you would like to continue to compete well.

And yes, you're correct that if I don't have the same opportunity as the guy sitting next to me I have to be smarter and work harder to compete with him. I might also start to question why I don't have the same opportunity as the guy sitting next to me, and I might start to question why society works in a way that makes me work harder than the guy sitting next to me just so I can reap the same reward he does. I will start to wonder if there is a different way for society to work so as not to disadvantage people such as myself in ways that seem arbitrary and not based on merit or ability.

Here's an extreme example - if the government decides to forcibly remove me from my home and ship me thousands of miles away to an internment camp because my parents were born in Japan, that would put me in a great disadvantage to be able to compete. My brain power, hard work, good health, and any other characteristic will not help me avoid this very catastrophic situation. I suppose you could file this under not having "luck" since I was unlucky enough to be born to Japanese parents. I could eventually overcome this situation if I am resilient enough and don't continue to suffer from even more "bad luck," but being imprisoned in an interment camp certainly impedes my ability to further develop brain power, to have opportunities for hard work, and to increase chances of experiencing good luck.

Does society really have to work this way? Where governments imprison people, take away their property and their freedom of movement practically overnight, just because of some arbitrary factor that the person doesn't have control over to begin with?

Because of real lessons that history has taught us, I care about what my neighbors think of me, what people who can vote think of me, and what the politicians they vote into office think of me. Because it can gravely impact my ability to compete. That's why I care about Joe Blow. Because many fascists started off as a Joe Blow. Because many fascists needed Joe Blows to gain power to begin with. These things don't just happen in a vacuum or out of nowhere.

I hear you and I support you.

I also wanted to give you a realistic expectation of the society we live in. Nowhere in the world is a minority treated the same as the majority. Fight back. Do whatever you need to do but ultimately what matters is your ability to outwork most people. Economic power is just as important, if not more important than political power.


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Why does Trump want to keep the law on pre-existing conditions? It's like being able to buy car insurance after you wreck your car and getting it replaced for free. That's not insurance. Why should a healthy person pay insurance their whole life when they can just wait until they get a diagnosis to buy it instead? This is the kind of stuff that inflates premiums and if anything actually limits access and creates cost barriers

Yah try telling that to the type 1 diabetic "hey ******* why didn't you buy insurance when you were 6 years old before your diagnosis?"

your analogy doesn't work, because there's no plausible way to purchase before the event.

Or "hey hemophiliac...why didn't you buy insurance in utero! *******."


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Yah try telling that to the type 1 diabetic "hey ******* why didn't you buy insurance when you were 6 years old before your diagnosis?"

your analogy doesn't work, because there's no plausible way to purchase before the event.

Or "hey hemophiliac...why didn't you buy insurance in utero! *******."


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No idiot has a point. It's moral hazard. Why should a healthy person (nondiabetic, nonhemophiliac) get insurance if they can become insured after the fact? A comprehensive Healthcare system needs to address that.

Not that I agree with denying preexisting conditions of course. Just pointing out that idiot is right about the moral hazard of allowing people to purchase insurance only after they need to make a claim on it.

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Yah try telling that to the type 1 diabetic "hey ******* why didn't you buy insurance when you were 6 years old before your diagnosis?"

your analogy doesn't work, because there's no plausible way to purchase before the event.

Or "hey hemophiliac...why didn't you buy insurance in utero! *******."


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I'd tell them to get coverage through a full time job instead of asking everyone else to subsidize them, but that would get me fired. In all seriousness there's not a great solution... at the end of the day someone has to pay up.
 
Why does Trump want to keep the law on pre-existing conditions? It's like being able to buy car insurance after you wreck your car and getting it replaced for free. That's not insurance. Why should a healthy person pay insurance their whole life when they can just wait until they get a diagnosis to buy it instead? This is the kind of stuff that inflates premiums and if anything actually limits access and creates cost barriers
Pre-existing conditions has to go hand in hand with making insurance mandatory. But then it become a complex problem on how to ensure everyone follows through and gets insurance, affordability, subsidies, penalties if they don't, etc, etc.
 
Pre-existing conditions has to go hand in hand with making insurance mandatory. But then it become a complex problem on how to ensure everyone follows through and gets insurance, affordability, subsidies, penalties if they don't, etc, etc.

And you also need to regulate how insurance companies charge each patient. If it is too expensive then people can't afford it = healthy people need to pay more into the risk pool.

So pretty much = Obamacare 2.0

I see Trump getting rid of some regulations and increasing HSA max contribution (great way to reduce your tax liability) but his hands are tied.

The sad truth is before Obamacare, people with pre-existing conditions don't have access to healthcare and many of them die early. This reduces their opportunity to reproduce (and pass on their disease genes) but this also reduces healthcare cost for the general public.




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The bottom line is that healthcare costs are just too high. None of the solutions are good.

1) Government mandated pricing: Healthcare industry gets screwed, quality of care goes down and investment in research drops
2) Obamacare: Healthy subsidize the unhealthy
3) Single payer: Rich subsidize the poor combined with government mandated pricing/formulary

Every solution creates a new problem. For example, with pre-existing conditions you must force healthy people to buy insurance/pay penalty to balance out costs, and even then the plans are still too expensive for the people that they target. Remove the penalty like Trump wants and prices will go up even more.

My personal opinion is to just limit government involvement. Honestly the private sector is more efficient than the government and I personally don't want the government in-charge of my healthcare; they aren't exactly known for their money management skills either. Encourage competition in the market to deliver more value to the consumer. At the end of the day there is no perfect solution and someone has to pay. We still have medicaid and medicare to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves, and many (most?) of the newly insured were a result of the medicaid expansion anyways.
 
The cost of health insurance from the individual market is always going to be an issue because there's no employer to shield them from premium costs. By the way, all insurance is fundamentally about the lucky subsidizing the unlucky. If only we could just tell people with pre-existing conditions to go **** themselves and endure financial ruin (the status quo before Obamacare for those without access to employer-sponsored insurance or who opt out) or create strong enough "incentives" for healthy people to buy in (mandate) and tell them to go **** themselves when faced with a medically catastrophic situation if they do not.
 
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CA has had TCT for a while, still requires pharmacist audit. Pharmacy laws are state level, I don't see that changing anytime soon (or in my lifetime).


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This won't affect me as well. But sometimes, not everything is about you.

exactly

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me
 
Almost every one of the stories you are quoting have been debunked. It's pathetic people make crap up for attention and to divide further when they are upset. It's spread like wildfire on social media, mama always said you can't believe everything you read on the internet
you have your head in the sand if you think this isn't happening - I have three friends who have had people their their children in various ways at school that they have to move - one was told to watch for the great purge. seriously - this happens
 
you have your head in the sand if you think this isn't happening - I have three friends who have had people their their children in various ways at school that they have to move - one was told to watch for the great purge. seriously - this happens

I've had things said to me while pumping gas. Granted this has happened before Trump, and will continue after...but there's a certain amount of arrogance now.

I used to think these backwater racists would eventually die of meth overdoses and stop breeding...now I'm not so sure.


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I've had things said to me while pumping gas. Granted this has happened before Trump, and will continue after...but there's a certain amount of arrogance now.

I used to think these backwater racists would eventually die of meth overdoses and stop breeding...now I'm not so sure.


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I grew up in meth land - these people unfortunately have about 4 kids prior to them overdosing or blowing themselves up. Racism has been around forever - but the biggest issue is that more people now think it is OK to flaunt it.
 
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Pretty sure this is legal in several states; doesn't really affect anyone except hospital pharmacists. Instead of doing product verification for pyxis machines they can do something that requires half a brain.

Exactly. TCT doesn't apply to compounded IV bags made for little NICU babies. Or compounded narcotic batches.

We still look at cubie loads at our hospital but it takes like half a second for each cubie.

I do vehemently disagree with TCT though, just because I'm all for pharmacist in general job protection. It's asinine to give up any unique responsibility with a glut of new graduate practitioners.
 
Another option being discussed about how to cover those with pre-existing conditions is to extend HIPAA protections to individual policies. As long as have a policy, they can't charge you extra. If you don't have a policy and then get sick, the insurance companies can charge you extra.

Long-term, we need to get away from the model of buying health insurance from employers. It is not a good method.
 
Tech check tech is the pharmacy version of the smallpox infested blanket.

We do it for some things and I don't hate it.

My per diem job does not, and I can't believe they pay me that much money to check Pyxis fills!

Also, the techs at that place are subpar and I find many errors...


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