why do the surgeons bitch about anesthesiologists salaries?

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ribcrackindoc

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1) Is this true?
2) If it is, then why do I hear so much talk about anesthesiologists making more than surgeons?
It doesn't seem to be true here.
3) Could they be referring to hourly wage?

Ortho-spine: $671,000
Neurosurgeons: $541,000
Cardiovascular surgeons: $515,000
Plastic surgeons: $412,000
Urologists: 358,000
Orthopedic surgeons: $342,000
Vascular surgeons: $329,000
Opthalmologists: $314,000
ENT: $311,000
General surgeons: $291,000

THEN ANESTHESIOLOGY AT $275,000

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Its true in some cases. MDA's can make 300-500K depending on partnership, location, etc...

Generally its the general surgeons that complain. But they really are complaining about how little the MDA works compared to the surgeon. Anesthesia doesn't have to worry about that pesky clinic.

I would gladly make less, work less, and be happier!

I think per hour there is no comparison to general surgeon. Some of the specialist may be diferent :)

But if you realize that to specialize in surgery, you need +/- 8 years of residency. In 4 years I will be in private practice making money. Even at ~200K, in 4 years I will be 800K ahead.
 
i think for the most part subspecialized surgeons can make a very good living, but they also work very long hard hours as attendings for the most part... however general surgeons frequently make less than most anesthesiologists, and that can be very frustrating for them 1) because of the unbelievable amount of sacrifice they endured for 5 to 9 years 2) their hours suck 3) they have less vacations 4) they have to go home at night and worry about their bowel anastomoses .... sometimes it blows my mind that a lap chole gets reimbursed at between 140 and 300 dollars by medicare!!! while the anesthesia gets 400!!!
 
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Not too sure why Surgeons would be jealous.... since General Surgery is still more competitive than Anesthiology... and back in the day was far more competitive. Surgeons made the choice.

The world keeps on turning. What what person gets paid now will not be so in 5-10 years. You think the insurance/government won't change reimbursements for Anesthiology in a few years? You think a ERCP or Bronch will still get as much now as in 10 years. Doubtful. Yet the "squeeky" wheel gets the attention. Surgeons complaining now will get better reimbursement in the future. Jealousy? hahaha. Just common sense.
 
Agree with Daredevil... except... general surgery more competitive than anesthesia = NO.
 
Are you sure you in the right forum? You seem to be quite the frequenter of gensurg/sub discourse. Where you are getting these salary numbers from?

Student doctor used to have a listing, which I cannot find anymore, but Anesthesia was more like 250k average, however gen surg could barely break 200k (180-210). Now I gotta admit this is quite the circumstantial evidence. If you go on gaswork, you'll see starting salaries from 180-350 range depending on the geographic location.

I think the reason for the discrepancy could be that there is no more "General" Surgery. Those guys are basically abdominal surgeons. Everything else has a subspecialty. It's a shame because of the gruelling 5 years of training. Back in the day General Surgeon was doing everything except for Neuro, now it's lipomas, hernias, chole's and appys. All these things pay like 5cents per hour from medicare and a little more from the other insurance.

I think surgeons tend to bitch more than other docs too, just like traders. I guess it's a stress relief mechanism.
 
I concur that the lifestyle of surgery, as compared to anaesthesiology might lend itself to the formation of some bitterness that is seen/talked about. Unless someone has concrete numbers, I'd say the salaries are relatively comparable. It's just the perceived lack of hours/effort/energy put in by the MDA for the same amount of money, that has some surgeons continually annoyed.

By the way, what's the final consensus on the more competitive residency as of 2003, surg or anes?

lar
 
alot of bitterness is cause surgeons work long hrs and therefore think they are better doctors than anyone else. this is called the "i am god" phenomena!
plus they dont have time to get laid so that builds up more frustrations and bitterness!:love:
 
A lot of this is probably in the context of academic surgeons comparing their salaries to private anesthesiologists. When I told one academic pediatric plastic surgeon how much starting private anesthesiologist can make, he stopped his operation, and then whined about how unfair that was. At no point did he say he wished he was an anesthesiologist. I don't think you'll hear as much griping from the private practice surgeons.
 
People bitch about how much us rads make given the relatively good lifestyle. But, the truth is, to make the big money you have to work like a surgeon. The difference is, most of us make less, but also work less and have happier lives. Even surgeons who are willing to make a less money work damn hard.
 
Originally posted by Teufelhunden
On what planet?

By a lot of indices (Match rate, % of US allopathic grads,etc..) this is still true, but its like comparing apples to oranges.

The mean/median salaries of Gerneral Surgery & Anesthesia are pretty close now on most surverys I see & the job offers I hear sound pretty close to these from my friends. I think most general surgeons will make slightly more then Anesthesia, but the salary per hour ratio is clearly better for anesthesia. It also seems to me however that some anesthiologists are in positions where they do MUCH better then General Surgeons, but those jobs seem to be disappearing as Medicare tightens up their margins. The interventional pain guys are still making a killing, but a lot of those guys are really shady ethically in their practices I've observed. Depending upon your patient mix, even Anesthesia can get really hurt in today's market - I witnessed the essential "bankruptcy" of the anesthesia group @ the 7th busiest heart hospital in the country as they got caught in a perfect storm of reduced volume, declining reimbursement, & out if control overtime pay for CRNA work after deacdes of living the good life under the old rules.

I don't think most surgeons are jealous of their colleagues. At just about every OR lounge in town, that's who you hang out with. A lot of my favorite people are some of the CRNAs & MDA's who've known me from the time I was an intern many years ago. I think Surgeons do feel that they have bourne the brunt of declining reimbursements heavier then most & the Professional Organizations are still being criticised for poor advocacy over the last 15 years on those issues as compared to the lobbying that other subspecialties did (notably orthopedics).
 
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