Why do we have to spend 2-3 more years?

[drhonor]

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I think it is not fair...
We got our degrees...
We are doctors...
Why does ADA do this to us.
After having all their tests done ,md's start their residency right away and they get paid.
As soon as we pass our all required tests ,why should we go back to the school, and pay a lot of money for the meaningless programs prepared for ftd!!!!!!!!!!?????????
what about the nonsense interviews?
in UIC during the interview they want me to read a book and summarize it.I was shocked ,I objected ,i asked their purpose and left the interview ,in usc or the others is kind a comedy.in USC they packed us 11-12 dentists in a room wanted from us to discuss a stupid subject in front of a lady and her assistant ,what a shame!!!!!!!
I dont know guys but it is disgusting... it does not make any sense at all...
These are the worst memories of my life....

 

[Ninja91]

Very right, the system needs to change more like our medicine counterparts. We all need to start somewhere with ADA

 

[pendejodo]

the solution is lawyers we need somebady smart enouth to get a law suit to the ada for discrimination rational country of origen why Drs they can kill easy is really no fair,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what we do next I kwon everyone they kwon this but they dont want to do nothing about this. is that rigth ?

 

[misssurgeon]

I hear you all guys but I know there is a price for a dental degree in the US and regardless of how many years it needs to be done, it does not change, a regular badge spends it in 4 year, ftd s in 2 .......The system has to make money out of ftd's. Do not forget that.

 

[poumpy]

I think it is not fair...
We got our degrees...
We are doctors...
Why does ADA do this to us.
After having all their tests done ,md's start their residency right away and they get paid.
As soon as we pass our all required tests ,why should we go back to the school, and pay a lot of money for the meaningless programs prepared for ftd!!!!!!!!!!?????????
what about the nonsense interviews?
in UIC during the interview they want me to read a book and summarize it.I was shocked ,I objected ,i asked their purpose and left the interview ,in usc or the others is kind a comedy.in USC they packed us 11-12 dentists in a room wanted from us to discuss a stupid subject in front of a lady and her assistant ,what a shame!!!!!!!
I dont know guys but it is disgusting... it does not make any sense at all...
These are the worst memories of my life....

We don't have to ....
this is a question of choice we do...
nobody forced us to do it.....

 

[doc76]

We don't have to ....
this is a question of choice we do...
nobody forced us to do it.....

yes poumpy is right...this is aquestion of choice...nobody forced us ...when we came to this country and left our own countries it was our choice nobody forced us to leave and nobody invited us either.this is a diffrent country they have their own laws.we cant force them to change. practicing dentistry here is not our right its a privilege....and i dont mind spending $200000 when we know we can make more ..... if we dont like it we can always go back....ya 1 thing is there discrimination between us and our medicine counterparts.......but they know better...right

 

[IndianGraduate]

dr honor....i hear ya....but nothing's gonna change man....that's the game called life.

 

[drhonor]

We don't have to ....
this is a question of choice we do...
nobody forced us to do it.....

yes they forced us to spend extra years and a tons of money ,this is reality?
so whats your offer pumpy?,do u want from ftds to leave this country,or deliver pizza instead of performing their profession?
accept or not!
there is a discrimination for ftds
show me an other job group like us!
mds,pharmacists/teachers?engineers?vets? who?
i ve just wanted to have fair conditions
i passed the boards ,i will be able to pass the nerb or others as well,we have more experience...
we have the same may be more knowledge from the US graduates
so what?
couple guys in ADA decided unfair decicesion in a room and we have to obey this????
we are doctors,we have to behave smarter ,we lead the society,we have a honor dignity...
come on guys,be logical,dont behave like fasicsts
WE DONOT DESERVE THIS
THIS IS NOT FAIR
THIS IS AGAINST THE SOUL and THE LOGIC OF MEDICINE

 

[poumpy]

so what?
we are doctors,we lead the society,we have a honor dignity...

we are doctors the place where we can practice. Do you know that in Quebec(Canadian provice) is said clearly: " Everyone could be a DDS or DMD, but nobody can't call himself a DENTIST without a registration in the Province. "

 

[doc76]

we are doctors the place where we can practice. Do you know that in Quebec(Canadian provice) is said clearly: " Everyone could be a DDS or DMD, but nobody can't call himself a DENTIST without a registration in the Province. "

well said.....poumpy

 

[drhonor]

we are in US anyways
i open this folder to discuss this discrimination towards us
i do not want to argue at all.This is a real discrimination and unfair circumstances for ftds
i got my acceptance from 2 different colleges already
but there are a lot of dentists out there,
we should not be selfish...,
we do not have to pay so much anyways
we are not supposed to waste our times...
well it is my choice and i will never give up to chase this unfair condition,
things will change guys
things must change..
Please write your opinions if u would...
may be we go from here to somewhere altogether
thanks

 

[newdentist79]

there is a discrimination for ftds
show me an other job group like us!
mds,pharmacists/teachers?engineers?vets? who?
i ve just wanted to have fair conditions

I can't agree more, I don't mind spending two more years in a residency program, getting paid a little bit of money, just to survive those couple years,like mds (as far they don't think that the dental board and state board are enough). This way it would be fair comparing to the other professions, and so we won't be burden with those $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that we have to be financing for at least 10 years after all this hard work.
It's really rare to find someone who got already accept or get done with the program to agree with that, because unfortunately a lot of us are selfish and self centered .

 

[bulgogi]

If you don't like the situation, maybe you can get a job driving a Waaambulance for awhile.

This has been dicussed, and it almost sound slike you are the same person as in this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=469078

You are mistaken. You are not discriminated against. You were never guaranteed rights to do anything you wanted in the US. If you dont like the system, maybe your home country has a better system, and better pay for dentists. Did you ever think that maybe the pay is higher here because of the higher standards of qualification? If they let every foreign dentist practice that wanted to, the quality of care would lower to the average world standard, and the wages would drop to nothing.

In fact, you have an advantage in being a foreigner. You can apply to IDP programs that only take 2 years. In America, the average dental student takes 4-5 years of college and 4 years of dental school. In much of the world, most dental schools are 5 years total from what I believe. If you only have to do 2 years + 5 at home, you are ahead a year.

There are standards here set by a professional community. The standards are there for a very good reason. Not all countries produce the quality of dentists the U.S. expects. In some countries, you qualify for dental school only by knowing the dean, and can graduate without really doing anything.

Dont whine that you passed the boards. They are only one part of becoming a qualified dentist. The best way to ensure people have a basic qualification is to have a reputable school observe their ability to learn the American standard, grant them a diploma, and then give them a test. If there was only a written board, you can bet it would be tougher-like the bar exam for lawyers. You wouldn't pass it without having been to a Western school.

Really, who do you think you are to come to a safe country of good opportunity, and talk down about it, and play a victim, saying your rights have been violated.

Its my opinion that America is doing things well. Maybe not the best, but we do things alright, and better than most when it comes to being fair and equitable. I think you will discover that, despite what you may think, many of us love this country and dont like it when someone shows up as an immigrant and starts saying how unfair the system is for them.

If our system is so bad compared to yours, simply go back home. I'm sure your home country is much more sensitive to people who think they've been discrimintated against. I'm sure your home country is so much more reasonable than the US...

But I think there is a reason you came here. Its a great country, and things are generally fair.

Go USA!👍

 

[newdentist79]

If you don't like the situation, maybe you can get a job driving a Waaambulance for awhile.

This has been dicussed, and it almost sound slike you are the same person as in this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=469078

You are mistaken. You are not discriminated against. You were never guaranteed rights to do anything you wanted in the US. If you dont like the system, maybe your home country has a better system, and better pay for dentists. Did you ever think that maybe the pay is higher here because of the higher standards of qualification? If they let every foreign dentist practice that wanted to, the quality of care would lower to the average world standard, and the wages would drop to nothing.

In fact, you have an advantage in being a foreigner. You can apply to IDP programs that only take 2 years. In America, the average dental student takes 4-5 years of college and 4 years of dental school. In much of the world, most dental schools are 5 years total from what I believe. If you only have to do 2 years + 5 at home, you are ahead a year.

There are standards here set by a professional community. The standards are there for a very good reason. Not all countries produce the quality of dentists the U.S. expects. In some countries, you qualify for dental school only by knowing the dean, and can graduate without really doing anything.

Dont whine that you passed the boards. They are only one part of becoming a qualified dentist. The best way to ensure people have a basic qualification is to have a reputable school observe their ability to learn the American standard, grant them a diploma, and then give them a test. If there was only a written board, you can bet it would be tougher-like the bar exam for lawyers. You wouldn't pass it without having been to a Western school.

Really, who do you think you are to come to a safe country of good opportunity, and talk down about it, and play a victim, saying your rights have been violated.

Its my opinion that America is doing things well. Maybe not the best, but we do things alright, and better than most when it comes to being fair and equitable. I think you will discover that, despite what you may think, many of us love this country and dont like it when someone shows up as an immigrant and starts saying how unfair the system is for them.

If our system is so bad compared to yours, simply go back home. I'm sure your home country is much more sensitive to people who think they've been discrimintated against. I'm sure your home country is so much more reasonable than the US...

But I think there is a reason you came here. Its a great country, and things are generally fair.

Go USA!👍

What are you even talk about?!!! , he didn't cut the USA down by anyways.
He is just comparing between how to get your license as a mds,pharmacists,teachers or engineers and, as a dentist.

I am really getting sick of those people who whenever you talk, they just answer by go back to your home if you don't like it !!!!. Anybody has the right to express his thoughts even if he is legal immigrant, your grand father or grand grandfather was an immigrant, America is the land of immigrant and it has been built by them.

 

[bulgogi]

What are you even talk about?!!! , he didn't cut the USA down by anyways.
He is just comparing between how to get your license as a mds,pharmacists,teachers or engineers and, as a dentist.

I am really getting sick of those people who whenever you talk, they just answer by go back to your home if you don't like it !!!!. Anybody has the right to express his thoughts even if he is legal immigrant, your grand father or grand grandfather was an immigrant, America is the land of immigrant and it has been built by them.

I didnt say he cut down the USA, he whined about the system here. He is not just comparing the different professions, he is saying there is discrimination against foreign doctors. He said that foreigners have the same if not more knowledge than American trained dentists, and says that the ADA is unfair, so I stand by my point.

When did I say he can't express his opinion? I didn't! He can as much as he wants, and I am expressing mine- which is is that if you think the system is unfair here, go somewhere else. The right to express an opinion comes with the risk of being called out on it. If he really wants to work in the US, he can try to get qualified in MN. CA used to allow this but decided it was a bad idea.

I didnt "just answer go back home" I clearly laid out my ideas. "Go back home" doesn't apply in most cases, but if someone is whining about the entire dental education industry, and how it is discriminitory against them, I fully support my idea above. If you dont like it go somewhere else.

Also, I wouldnt want a Pharmacist trained in a 3rd world country to be able to work here withuot some kind of standardization program either. I've been to countries that you can too easily get through a serious program without any idea of what you are doing if you know the right people or are from a certain family. I dont want those people qualified to work in the U.S. based on their home country standard.

 

[poumpy]

It's really rare to find someone who got already accept or get done with the program to agree with that, because unfortunately a lot of us are selfish and self centered .

It is not a question of selfish or self centered. I am using my wife's ID and actually I am not a student yet, but this does not change the rules of the game. I knew it before I immigrated to Canada and by doing this step I agreed to follow these rules. I am always free to go back to Europe and practise there, this is really my personal choice to stay, apply and spend money. And you have to know in the USA ftds are lucky about application fees. In Canada the cheapest is 250 dollars and ends up to 1500 dollars for 50 spots in the whole country.

 

[NileBDS]

yes they forced us to spend extra years and a tons of money ,this is reality?
so whats your offer pumpy?,do u want from ftds to leave this country,or deliver pizza instead of performing their profession?
accept or not!
there is a discrimination for ftds
show me an other job group like us!
mds,pharmacists/teachers?engineers?vets? who?
i ve just wanted to have fair conditions
i passed the boards ,i will be able to pass the nerb or others as well,we have more experience...
we have the same may be more knowledge from the US graduates
so what?
couple guys in ADA decided unfair decicesion in a room and we have to obey this????
we are doctors,we have to behave smarter ,we lead the society,we have a honor dignity...
come on guys,be logical,dont behave like fasicsts
WE DONOT DESERVE THIS
THIS IS NOT FAIR
THIS IS AGAINST THE SOUL and THE LOGIC OF MEDICINE

You have a high sense of self-entitlement drhonor.

There are several states in the US that will license you following successful completion of a ADA accredited dental residency, without having to go through a DDS/DMD program. Problem solved.

In addition, MD's are not exactly the best lead to follow. Those of us living in the US for long enough realize the magnitude of the medical community's wounds.

Having gone through a DDS curriculum myself, I can attest to the grave differences in the manner and organization medicine and dentistry are practiced in the US and overseas. These advanced standing programs are not merely expensive and unjust wastes of our time. That would be terribly naive to think of it as such.

 

[poumpy]

Having gone through a DDS curriculum myself, I can attest to the grave differences in the manner and organization medicine and dentistry are practiced in the US and overseas. These advanced standing programs are not merely expensive and unjust wastes of our time. That would be terribly naive to think of it as such.

👍👍👍👍👍

 

[misssurgeon]

I very much agree to Nile BDS.

 

[akg]

I think it is not fair...
We got our degrees...
We are doctors...
Why does ADA do this to us.
After having all their tests done ,md's start their residency right away and they get paid.
As soon as we pass our all required tests ,why should we go back to the school, and pay a lot of money for the meaningless programs prepared for ftd!!!!!!!!!!?????????
what about the nonsense interviews?
in UIC during the interview they want me to read a book and summarize it.I was shocked ,I objected ,i asked their purpose and left the interview ,in usc or the others is kind a comedy.in USC they packed us 11-12 dentists in a room wanted from us to discuss a stupid subject in front of a lady and her assistant ,what a shame!!!!!!!
I dont know guys but it is disgusting... it does not make any sense at all...
These are the worst memories of my life....

I think you have to loosen up a bit and get used to the system....as such there is no perfect system anywhere in the world...

admission selection process may be wierd at bunch of schools it doesnot mean the system is wrong.. i support the idea of FTD program so that foreign trained dentists can even out the differences or deficiencies in their foreign dental program so that they are at par with the current standards practiced in US.

best wishes

 

[drhonor]

I can't agree more, I don't mind spending two more years in a residency program, getting paid a little bit of money, just to survive those couple years,like mds (as far they don't think that the dental board and state board are enough). This way it would be fair comparing to the other professions, and so we won't be burden with those $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that we have to be financing for at least 10 years after all this hard work.
It's really rare to find someone who got already accept or get done with the program to agree with that, because unfortunately a lot of us are selfish and self centered .

residency? a little bit money? where?

 

[drhonor]

If you don't like the situation, maybe you can get a job driving a Waaambulance for awhile.

This has been dicussed, and it almost sound slike you are the same person as in this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=469078

You are mistaken. You are not discriminated against. You were never guaranteed rights to do anything you wanted in the US. If you dont like the system, maybe your home country has a better system, and better pay for dentists. Did you ever think that maybe the pay is higher here because of the higher standards of qualification? If they let every foreign dentist practice that wanted to, the quality of care would lower to the average world standard, and the wages would drop to nothing.

In fact, you have an advantage in being a foreigner. You can apply to IDP programs that only take 2 years. In America, the average dental student takes 4-5 years of college and 4 years of dental school. In much of the world, most dental schools are 5 years total from what I believe. If you only have to do 2 years + 5 at home, you are ahead a year.

There are standards here set by a professional community. The standards are there for a very good reason. Not all countries produce the quality of dentists the U.S. expects. In some countries, you qualify for dental school only by knowing the dean, and can graduate without really doing anything.

Dont whine that you passed the boards. They are only one part of becoming a qualified dentist. The best way to ensure people have a basic qualification is to have a reputable school observe their ability to learn the American standard, grant them a diploma, and then give them a test. If there was only a written board, you can bet it would be tougher-like the bar exam for lawyers. You wouldn't pass it without having been to a Western school.

Really, who do you think you are to come to a safe country of good opportunity, and talk down about it, and play a victim, saying your rights have been violated.

Its my opinion that America is doing things well. Maybe not the best, but we do things alright, and better than most when it comes to being fair and equitable. I think you will discover that, despite what you may think, many of us love this country and dont like it when someone shows up as an immigrant and starts saying how unfair the system is for them.

If our system is so bad compared to yours, simply go back home. I'm sure your home country is much more sensitive to people who think they've been discrimintated against. I'm sure your home country is so much more reasonable than the US...

But I think there is a reason you came here. Its a great country, and things are generally fair.

Go USA!👍

you are too young you should think more wise and calm and kind

 

[drhonor]

I think you have to loosen up a bit and get used to the system....as such there is no perfect system anywhere in the world...

admission selection process may be wierd at bunch of schools it doesnot mean the system is wrong.. i support the idea of FTD program so that foreign trained dentists can even out the differences or deficiencies in their foreign dental program so that they are at par with the current standards practiced in US.

best wishes

first of all i donot care who and when this subject is discuss this is the reality,i do not agree with you i am staying here and i will fight fo that issue

 

[drhonor]

You have a high sense of self-entitlement drhonor.

There are several states in the US that will license you following successful completion of a ADA accredited dental residency, without having to go through a DDS/DMD program. Problem solved.

In addition, MD's are not exactly the best lead to follow. Those of us living in the US for long enough realize the magnitude of the medical community's wounds.

Having gone through a DDS curriculum myself, I can attest to the grave differences in the manner and organization medicine and dentistry are practiced in the US and overseas. These advanced standing programs are not merely expensive and unjust wastes of our time. That would be terribly naive to think of it as such.

hey nile
i know u are coming from a culture which is shaped by old and new phorahs who oppressed their own people.
do not try to oppress people as soon as you get the power.be nice please first.If i am a 'high sense of self-entitlement ' what would you be?
i am sure you know that there is not any 'free' residency prog in this country.so?problem is not solved...
several states?named them,pls?
well i still believe that we have a very loyal job,and we lead the society,just cut this oppressed ideas out,you ae in a free country.
this programs may not be expensive for you but they are expensive for majority of the students.i know a lot of students with empty pocket.
best

 

[dent_mangalore]

I think it is not fair...
We got our degrees...
We are doctors...
Why does ADA do this to us.
After having all their tests done ,md's start their residency right away and they get paid.
As soon as we pass our all required tests ,why should we go back to the school, and pay a lot of money for the meaningless programs prepared for ftd!!!!!!!!!!?????????
what about the nonsense interviews?
in UIC during the interview they want me to read a book and summarize it.I was shocked ,I objected ,i asked their purpose and left the interview ,in usc or the others is kind a comedy.in USC they packed us 11-12 dentists in a room wanted from us to discuss a stupid subject in front of a lady and her assistant ,what a shame!!!!!!!
I dont know guys but it is disgusting... it does not make any sense at all...
These are the worst memories of my life....

Hey Dr Honor,
i kind of agree as well as disagree with you.
Yes, I definitely think that these people at universities should treat us with a certain dignity , we being trained dentists already.
Some schoold like UPenn treat us extremely well, not just after getting in but also during the interview process.......
yes, thats unfair, MDs get to do their residency, engineers get to take up a job, CAs need to clear CPA etc etc ..............only DENTIST HAVE TO REPEAT THE SCHOOL...........but having said that the immediate solution is not at hand, and going through a dental school here, I feel that there is definitely a difference between what we learned and what we will be learning.
and at the end its all worthwhile........
SO may be just take the bitter pill untill we are capable of bringing about the change.

 

[shabu2]

Hey Dr Honor,
..............only DENTIST HAVE TO REPEAT THE SCHOOL...........but having said that the immediate solution is not at hand, and going through a dental school here, I feel that there is definitely a difference between what we learned and what we will be learning.
and at the end its all worthwhile........
SO may be just take the bitter pill untill we are capable of bringing about the change.

I had a few FTD trained dentists in my class, and I asked them on numerous occasions about the differences in education, and everyone agreed our system was harder and more technically challenging. If you want to live here and practice on patients HERE, you got to follow the rules, as I would have to going to another country. My FTD colleagues struggled just as much as anyone of us, even with the title of "Dr." There were no huge differences or advantages in my opinion of FTD.

 

[shabu2]

You have a high sense of self-entitlement drhonor.

There are several states in the US that will license you following successful completion of a ADA accredited dental residency, without having to go through a DDS/DMD program. Problem solved.

In addition, MD's are not exactly the best lead to follow. Those of us living in the US for long enough realize the magnitude of the medical community's wounds.

Having gone through a DDS curriculum myself, I can attest to the grave differences in the manner and organization medicine and dentistry are practiced in the US and overseas. These advanced standing programs are not merely expensive and unjust wastes of our time. That would be terribly naive to think of it as such.

Dude, creepy avatar.

 

[drhonor]

I had a few FTD trained dentists in my class, and I asked them on numerous occasions about the differences in education, and everyone agreed our system was harder and more technically challenging. If you want to live here and practice on patients HERE, you got to follow the rules, as I would have to going to another country. My FTD colleagues struggled just as much as anyone of us, even with the title of "Dr." There were no huge differences or advantages in my opinion of FTD.

what do you mean?😕
is this system in here harder and more technicaly challenging only for dentists???Are those all harder!! and 'technically challenging'!!!! things discovered only for us?????????????do you mean dentisttry is the only academic field ignored in other countries and only foreign trained dentists are supposed to go back to school pay a lot of money to become eligible for their licence in here?what a crap?or do you mean foreign educated md s engineers etc...they are all educated more sophisticated than us?
😕😕😕
let me clarify this guys
do not tried to attempt to describe this discrimnative situation for ftds logically,because there is no logical explanation,it is just ridicioulus,it is not fair,lets try to do something together to get it fixed.
thanks

 

[igores07]

I believe that, those of us who want to move to the US or Canada and practice dentistry there must go through an adjustment phase of some sort of course (mostly for our own good!), and IMO, spending 2 years of your life on that purpose won't hurt in the long run, since you are gonna spend the first years of your career (any career!) on building relations, getting familiar with other aspects of the job, managing the practice, etc..I guess an academic setting is the place you will get most of the benefit from.

I personally thing, the only thing which is overlooked most of the time on this issue is the high amount of tuition which applies to most of the IDP programs!...But again maybe it's just me who is a bit bothered with it.

 

[g3k]

hey nile
i know u are coming from a culture which is shaped by old and new phorahs who oppressed their own people.
do not try to oppress people as soon as you get the power.be nice please first.If i am a 'high sense of self-entitlement ' what would you be?
i am sure you know that there is not any 'free' residency prog in this country.so?problem is not solved...
several states?named them,pls?
well i still believe that we have a very loyal job,and we lead the society,just cut this oppressed ideas out,you ae in a free country.
this programs may not be expensive for you but they are expensive for majority of the students.i know a lot of students with empty pocket.
best

Your attitude is going to get you nowhere. I think Nile was extremely nice in his answer. When you start the clinics you will understand why you have to go through two years. It is not easy to compare apples to oranges. The day to day materials we use in dentistry are way more expensive than the materials used in medicine. It is not easy to fund you tons of amalgam and composite and cerec machines so you can get your degree and get paid. You are expecting way too much from them. Good luck with your new venture. I would be more than happy to see you find a way out for the others!!

 

[g3k]

You have a high sense of self-entitlement drhonor.

There are several states in the US that will license you following successful completion of a ADA accredited dental residency, without having to go through a DDS/DMD program. Problem solved.

In addition, MD's are not exactly the best lead to follow. Those of us living in the US for long enough realize the magnitude of the medical community's wounds.

Having gone through a DDS curriculum myself, I can attest to the grave differences in the manner and organization medicine and dentistry are practiced in the US and overseas. These advanced standing programs are not merely expensive and unjust wastes of our time. That would be terribly naive to think of it as such.

Agreed 👍

 

[ddsindamaking]

Yes so true... why such discrimination with FTDs??? why is it because the engineers etc work for the Us companies and are answeable to them whereas we once get our license will basically be working for Noone but ourselves????Why wont they see the big picture which is that the sooner we get our license, the earlier we start serving their people by giving them quality dental care...

honestly speaking, i feel that Ada people were undergoing some kind of an inferiority complex before which now has turned into greed!! , i tell you why... because, they dont want FTDS to come to US, pass the boards,take bench, get the license and then wave them Goodbye and start rolling in dough, so they made this unfair law for the FTDS to go to school for two years, so that they can squeeze some money out of us before we kick their butt and start our own practice. I want to ask these ADA people that Why did they change the law in 2003 or watever year it was??? If this law was just, it would have been there since 70s or 80s or so, they didnt have this law before because there werent lot of FTDs showing up in their country before, Now they pick a rock and they find 1000s of FTDs under it, we have basically invaded their country like red ants and Now they want the crumbs from us. They wont even let us work as a dental hygenists w/o attending their programme? This is Really Not Fair. the Senior FTDS who were lucky enough to HIt the United State when there was no such law, wont even help us in this... and why would they??? they are happy with this situation AAMOF. I support drhonor view BUT also believe that this training is a blessing in disguise for those dentits who werent able to complete their Houe training back home, But for God's sakes 2damn years???? If u want us to get accustomed to your American Dentistry, 6months are enough.. Why asking 2 years and So much money?????

 

[drhonor]

Your attitude is going to get you nowhere. I think Nile was extremely nice in his answer. When you start the clinics you will understand why you have to go through two years. It is not easy to compare apples to oranges. The day to day materials we use in dentistry are way more expensive than the materials used in medicine. It is not easy to fund you tons of amalgam and composite and cerec machines so you can get your degree and get paid. You are expecting way too much from them. Good luck with your new venture. I would be more than happy to see you find a way out for the others!!

i ve been taking clinics and i havenot seen hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee differences anyways.
You guys pls open your eyes and try to create some ideas that we get the adas hand out of our pockets.We had already paid a lot of money already for nothing.its crazy.attidude?i dont know what u r talking about but,i donot have any bad attidude to anybody but as u see above there r some bad attidudes against ideas,well i full of love to everybody thats why i would like to discuss this subject.😍

 

[drhonor]

Yes so true... why such discrimination with FTDs??? why is it because the engineers etc work for the Us companies and are answeable to them whereas we once get our license will basically be working for Noone but ourselves????Why wont they see the big picture which is that the sooner we get our license, the earlier we start serving their people by giving them quality dental care...

honestly speaking, i feel that Ada people were undergoing some kind of an inferiority complex before which now has turned into greed!! , i tell you why... because, they dont want FTDS to come to US, pass the boards,take bench, get the license and then wave them Goodbye and start rolling in dough, so they made this unfair law for the FTDS to go to school for two years, so that they can squeeze some money out of us before we kick their butt and start our own practice. I want to ask these ADA people that Why did they change the law in 2003 or watever year it was??? If this law was just, it would have been there since 70s or 80s or so, they didnt have this law before because there werent lot of FTDs showing up in their country before, Now they pick a rock and they find 1000s of FTDs under it, we have basically invaded their country like red ants and Now they want the crumbs from us. They wont even let us work as a dental hygenists w/o attending their programme? This is Really Not Fair. the Senior FTDS who were lucky enough to HIt the United State when there was no such law, wont even help us in this... and why would they??? they are happy with this situation AAMOF. I support drhonor view BUT also believe that this training is a blessing in disguise for those dentits who werent able to complete their Houe training back home, But for God's sakes 2damn years???? If u want us to get accustomed to your American Dentistry, 6months are enough.. Why asking 2 years and So much money?????

dental hygenist u gotto be kidding with me,tell me about dental asissstant position.u gotto join 2 weeks courses and of course u gotto pay moneyy!!!!!! to work like a dental assistant in most states.its kind a joke but its a reality.

 

[shabu2]

what do you mean?😕
is this system in here harder and more technicaly challenging only for dentists???Are those all harder!! and 'technically challenging'!!!! things discovered only for us?????????????do you mean dentisttry is the only academic field ignored in other countries and only foreign trained dentists are supposed to go back to school pay a lot of money to become eligible for their licence in here?what a crap?or do you mean foreign educated md s engineers etc...they are all educated more sophisticated than us?
😕😕😕
let me clarify this guys
do not tried to attempt to describe this discrimnative situation for ftds logically,because there is no logical explanation,it is just ridicioulus,it is not fair,lets try to do something together to get it fixed.
thanks

Whoa!!!! Slow down and don't be so quick to read into someones post. Obviously you are passionate about this, and I have nothing against FTD. My father is one.

In order to practice in the states, you gotta follow the rules...period.

Dentistry is the only profession where you do not need to work with supervision once you graduate. Dental school is the only place where you can be evaluated and made sure you are ok to practice in the US without a RESIDENCY. There is no other profession in the world that allows you to treat patients like dentistry. YOU may be the best dentist in the world, but there are some countries that don't train their dentists to be at the same level as us. I agree there are many inconsistencies with the ADA and the current policies, but what American organizations do not? So before you get fired up, think about the whole picture and why there are so many obstacles rather than getting frustrated and comparing dentistry to other professions. If you don't take one of those spots at a school, there will be hundreds of others who will, so suck it up and get through it.

 

[Indi Dentist]

hello ,am from Sydney and I need help with the books for ADC,If anyone can please sell them or send them to me ,I will be greatfull.....And also is it better to get the books from here or from India,wat is the difference in cost?????Hoping to hear from anyone soon.Please help.

 

[drhonor]

Whoa!!!! Slow down and don't be so quick to read into someones post. Obviously you are passionate about this, and I have nothing against FTD. My father is one.

In order to practice in the states, you gotta follow the rules...period.

Dentistry is the only profession where you do not need to work with supervision once you graduate. Dental school is the only place where you can be evaluated and made sure you are ok to practice in the US without a RESIDENCY. There is no other profession in the world that allows you to treat patients like dentistry. YOU may be the best dentist in the world, but there are some countries that don't train their dentists to be at the same level as us. I agree there are many inconsistencies with the ADA and the current policies, but what American organizations do not? So before you get fired up, think about the whole picture and why there are so many obstacles rather than getting frustrated and comparing dentistry to other professions. If you don't take one of those spots at a school, there will be hundreds of others who will, so suck it up and get through it.

look
i think u have something wrong with your understanding
just calm down and settle down,i know u r young but
think logically pls pls pls
everything that u showed or mentioned above as a requriment or reason for dentists who want to practice in us they are also supposed to be same at least similiar for the other professions.
but they are not
this rules are kinda prepared against ftds.
this the subject or issue i would like to raise,share and discuss,the things u mentioned above ,they are all evidences for an obvious discrimination which i am complaining about them.I had already stated them all above,pls put an idea front for contribution pls
thanks 😍

 

[shabu2]

look
i think u have something wrong with your understanding
just calm down and settle down,i know u r young but

Uh, Dr Honor,

I am an OMFS resident, and probably MUCH older than you. I contribute alot of insight and advice, and my advice is for you to take your own advice and simmer down.

 

[Momani]

I don't understand what is the whole dissection is about. YOU DECIDED TO COME TO THIS COUNTRY AND PRACTICE DENTISTRY HERE BY YOUR OWN CHOICE,SO FOLLOW THE RULES AND BE GREATFULL FOR THIS COUNTRY FOR GIVING A CHANCE TO DO THIS.

 

[drhonor]

I don't understand what is the whole dissection is about. YOU DECIDED TO COME TO THIS COUNTRY AND PRACTICE DENTISTRY HERE BY YOUR OWN CHOICE,SO FOLLOW THE RULES AND BE GREATFULL FOR THIS COUNTRY FOR GIVING A CHANCE TO DO THIS.

momani
i am not the only guy came to this country and claiming something more than the others.
ok let me give you guys an example:
I came to this country in the same plane with an md.we entered to this country exactly the same date and same time.we passed our board tests together.we both delivered pizzas and worked sevveral different jobs
now he matched to a program last april ,he put his "md " ID on his chest and he started to make money (started 63 k/year)as a doctor.
me?
disaster!!!!
i have to go back to school,and i will ended up at the end of this program with a depth around 300 K.
this is ridiciolus?
now i am asking u all is it fair?
this is what i am talking about.
rules???
what rules
rules are for change,period.couple guys came together in a nice meeting room in chicago and writing the rules.
We can change them guys.come on....

 

[helda]

Hi Dr. honor i agree with you iam also dentist on my country and i came here i do not know why the physician taking 2 exams and that is it . and the dentist need to take NBDE and 2 years studying iam just wasting my time to remmembring all the stuff that i have been studying years ago. some time ifeel sorry if i came here before i started dentistry in my country😕🙁

 

[shabu2]

Hi Dr. honor i agree with you iam also dentist on my country and i came here i do not know why the physician taking 2 exams and that is it . and the dentist need to take NBDE and 2 years studying iam just wasting my time to remmembring all the stuff that i have been studying years ago. some time ifeel sorry if i came here before i started dentistry in my country😕🙁

This thread is so pathetic. how can you guys compare yourselves to MD's The USMLE step I/II/III is WAY Harder than NDBE I/II. USMLE makes NDBE look like a joke. The amount of training that a physician gets compared to dentists is at least double (4yrs med school + 3-8yrs Residency compared to 4yrs dental school). NDBE is a way to standardize everyone. I don't think it is a waste of time to retake if it allows you to practice here.

Some of the people on this thread believe that they should get preferential treatment just because they are Dr's. The title is earned, not a right given by some extra letters behind your name.

 

[scandalouslj]

I agree with everyone else's post. I talked to a lot of foreign students and they said there was a big difference between what they learned and what they are learning now. True that may not be the case for you Dr.honor, but there is no way and really it would be too hard/expensive to try to decifer which foreign schools provide adequate training and which do not. We had some foreign students who had never even done a crown. As for the residency part...there are not enough 2 year residencies to accomodate all the foreign students, and on top of that residencies are partly hands off which means you practice and only have faculty overlooking you if you need help, they do not evaluate your work, which is needed to make sure you are doing quality work. True ts diffferent for med school and that is because med students lean most of their stuff in residency and do more bookwork while in med school which is not the case in dental school. Why does it cost so much, welll dental school is expensive all the students, including the american ones pay the same tuition. The difference is we have to pay it for 8 years, while you only have to pay it for 2. And finally the US dental profession is one of the most trustworthy proffessions in the US and that is because of the quality work and schooling we have to go through, we dont need a bunch of foreign dentists that dont know what they are doing tarnishing our name and making us equivalent to car mechanics. Oh and the crying about the interviews and having to summerize a book or talk about a topic is pretty normal and that is to make sure you have the social skills to not only survive in school, but also the profession. Us american students go through the same types of things, I had to take a speech classs to apply to Indiana University dental school, and write an essay at Temple along with a group interview. No school needs a foreign student that cant understand english or cant communicate effectively with a patient.

 

[pandu]

This thread is so pathetic. how can you guys compare yourselves to MD's The USMLE step I/II/III is WAY Harder than NDBE I/II. USMLE makes NDBE look like a joke. The amount of training that a physician gets compared to dentists is at least double (4yrs med school + 3-8yrs Residency compared to 4yrs dental school). NDBE is a way to standardize everyone. I don't think it is a waste of time to retake if it allows you to practice here.

Some of the people on this thread believe that they should get preferential treatment just because they are Dr's. The title is earned, not a right given by some extra letters behind your name.

Hey, I will back you up on the second part of what U said, but saying NBDE is 'a joke compared to USMLE', is utter rubbish. That claim is too pompuos. Let each one stand in their own place.Are you a dental student or a medical student? If you are the former one,you should be ashamed to have said that, and if you are the latter, you should stop making such obnoxious comments.

 

[shabu2]

Are you a dental student or a medical student? If you are the former one,you should be ashamed to have said that, and if you are the latter, you should stop making such obnoxious comments.

Doesn't anyone read the entire threads anymore???!!!! Read the above posts. I am an OMFS RESIDENT. I can tell you objectively that USMLE is WAY harder than NDBE. I made that statement because someone else tried to compare physicians and dentists and the way they are tested. You cannot compare the two because they are not the same. 80% of dental students, including dentists would outright fail the USMLE ......so stop comparing the two.

 

[dentalbug]

This thread is something else, but anyways here is my opinion:

FACT 1 - FTDS must go through 2 yrs of training to gain LIC. in US, it would be close to impossible to change this. So, if you would like to practice as a dentist in US then one must become HUMBLE, since the process for FTDs is competative and tough, so I suggest buckle up and deal with it like the rest of us 🙂. I Agree with NileBDS and g3k totally.

FACT 2 - California used to allow FTDs to practice with out any education, they changed in 03 i believe, one can say that was not fair, BUT Cali must see that there is a need for education, so hence the change.

FACT 3 - Haveing the 2 or 3 year education is NOT a bad idea for the profession as a whole, WHICH means the FLUX of dentist will be limited by the number of SEATS!!! - So, the result would be JOB SAFETY & Less saturation of dentists!!. The ADA is not only holding up the high standards of the profession, but controling the supply of dentist indirectly.

FACT 4 - USMLE vs NBDE - I would say for foriegn trained MDs one of the biggest disadvantage is YOU can only take USMLE Once if you pass (any passing score), if you fail then and only then you can repeat it. So, if one gets a passing score of 75 in USMLE they can NOT take it again, hence most hospitals wont even accept them as residents, and when competetion is high even USMLE scores of high 80s dont get residency. While NBDE one can repeat and get a higher score.

Hope the above puts more light on the argument and brings about the end of this heated debate.

 

[Jasckelin]

It is the truth, but we know that it is the price for a dental degree in the US, many years have to be spent ... the system have to change, but I think it is very difficult .

Nobody want to spend two more years in a residency program, getting paid a little bit of money, just to survive those couple years. We all need to start somewhere with ADA.

 

[pandu]

Doesn't anyone read the entire threads anymore???!!!! Read the above posts. I am an OMFS RESIDENT. I can tell you objectively that USMLE is WAY harder than NDBE. I made that statement because someone else tried to compare physicians and dentists and the way they are tested. You cannot compare the two because they are not the same. 80% of dental students, including dentists would outright fail the USMLE ......so stop comparing the two.

Maybe, even you should better understand what people are saying on the forums.Nobody is comparing the intellectuality of MDs or Dentists. I know there is no comparison between the two.What exactly are you doing when you say' 80% of the dentists will fail the USLME'. That is the lamest comparison.Do you mean to tell us that the MDs are going to ace the NBDE?
Sorry to say that applies to them too.You wouldn't understand what the FTD goes through, so You probably wouldn't even understand the base line.I know your Dad is one ,but that was long ago!

 

[shabu2]

Maybe, even you should better understand what people are saying on the forums.Nobody is comparing the intellectuality of MDs or Dentists. I know there is no comparison between the two.What exactly are you doing when you say' 80% of the dentists will fail the USLME'. That is the lamest comparison.Do you mean to tell us that the MDs are going to ace the NBDE?
Sorry to say that applies to them too.You wouldn't understand what the FTD goes through, so You probably wouldn't even understand the base line.I know your Dad is one ,but that was long ago!

Hey Panda,

This thread is getting no where. Someone already tried to compare the two professions and the tests. Actually, a med student who just took the USMLE step I would destroy our NDBE anatomy, path/micro, and biochem. But prob fail the DAO thus failing NDBE, but there is no way a dental student would pass Step I without some serious preparation.

I am not discrediting dentistry in anyway, but I am tired of your term "pompous" FTDs thinking they have equal considerations as their US counterparts when in reality they DON'T. Read the OP's previous posts, and read some of the other posts here. That is why you all have to train more here. Everyone who are in the programs don't complain and are very thankful for the opportunity.

Enough is enough! Either be thankful you are enrolled and get an opportunity to treat patients and practice IMO the best profession in the world, or go to another country other than the US and use your degree there. As they say "**** or get off the pot" and stop complaining that you don't get enough credit for being a Dr..........whew!!😡

I am done ranting.....LOL

 

[drhonor]

Hey Panda,

This thread is getting no where. Someone already tried to compare the two professions and the tests. Actually, a med student who just took the USMLE step I would destroy our NDBE anatomy, path/micro, and biochem. But prob fail the DAO thus failing NDBE, but there is no way a dental student would pass Step I without some serious preparation.

I am not discrediting dentistry in anyway, but I am tired of your term "pompous" FTDs thinking they have equal considerations as their US counterparts when in reality they DON'T. Read the OP's previous posts, and read some of the other posts here. That is why you all have to train more here. Everyone who are in the programs don't complain and are very thankful for the opportunity.

Enough is enough! Either be thankful you are enrolled and get an opportunity to treat patients and practice IMO the best profession in the world, or go to another country other than the US and use your degree there. As they say "**** or get off the pot" and stop complaining that you don't get enough credit for being a Dr..........whew!!😡

I am done ranting.....LOL

shabu2
i mention my md friend as an EXAMPLE....
why do you change the subject?
SUBJECT IS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST DENTISTSSSSSSS

i mentioned my md friend as an EXAMPLE

But I also mentioned the other profession above

you have something wrong with your understanding skills...(getting into OMFS residency should not be that easy 😎)

FOR EXAMPLE
FOR EXAMPLE
logically,
if mds have more tougher education than the other countries,they shpuld gp back to school but they dont...
what about vets?
engineers?
archtitects?
pharmacists?
pilots?
so on so fort
i dont know how to describe more for you to get u apoint man!!!!!
i will use abocus and beams next time to 😳