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so....back to asians 😀
Why do WHITES complain about AA???
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Heh, I figured that since we'd already ventured away from the original topic, it was worth a shot...
I recall having an AA lunch convo with some friends (all dead convos end up on AA or horses), and one (Korean) said that her father (who happens to be a physician) didn't really believe it to be an issue, that if you're destined to become a doctor, it will happen when the time comes. And that if you have to work harder to get there, that it'll just be more worthwhile in the end
I recall having an AA lunch convo with some friends (all dead convos end up on AA or horses), and one (Korean) said that her father (who happens to be a physician) didn't really believe it to be an issue, that if you're destined to become a doctor, it will happen when the time comes. And that if you have to work harder to get there, that it'll just be more worthwhile in the end
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"AA might get you into med school, but it won't get you through it."
Vixinell- this couldn't be further from the truth. For one thing, it is extremely difficult to get kicked out of med school once you're in there. they make sure you get through, no matter what color your skin is.
Again, affirmative action comes into play in residency applications. Again, this is only from my own personal experience, but some of the weakest minority students in my class got interviews at Mass General and Hopkins while highly qualified white students did not. When I saw some of these students at the interviews at Mass General, etc. I had to do a double take. I was like "what the hell are you doing here?!?" For one of the black students in question, I happened to know his class rank (bottom quartile) and Step I score (50 points below mine) because he told me a while back. And this kid did not cure cancer or do anything marvelous that would compensate for his poor stats. And yet there he was, along with several other subpar minority students from my class, sitting at the same interview that I worked my ass off to get. Then, to top it all off, at the end of the interview day, the minority students were wined and dined above and beyond what the rest of us got during their "minority recruitment reception".
What the hell is going on here!!!! Not only do they get into med school with subpar stats, but they get interviews at prestigious residency programs with subpar applications and then they get wined and dined once the get there!!!! Does anyone else see this as unfair, or is it just me?
the real question that this provokes is this: at what point to these minorities stop needing affirmative action? O.K., I'll grant you that letting some minorities into prestigious colleges with slightly lower stats because they come from poor schools might be o.k. (even that's stretching it). But once they're in these prestigious universities, should the standards for getting into med school be lower? I mean, after 4 years at Harvard, or Yale, is the playing field still not even? and then, once they get into med school, is the playing field still so uneven that they need tons of help getting into the top residencies? And I know for a fact that academic teaching hospitals actively recruit minorites for attending positions. When does it all stop?????
My guess is that it never stops and perhaps, like it or not, rightfully so. For without all this help, there might be no minority physicians in this country. Then who would be left to take care of all of the inner-city residents who can't afford medical care?
Vixinell- this couldn't be further from the truth. For one thing, it is extremely difficult to get kicked out of med school once you're in there. they make sure you get through, no matter what color your skin is.
Again, affirmative action comes into play in residency applications. Again, this is only from my own personal experience, but some of the weakest minority students in my class got interviews at Mass General and Hopkins while highly qualified white students did not. When I saw some of these students at the interviews at Mass General, etc. I had to do a double take. I was like "what the hell are you doing here?!?" For one of the black students in question, I happened to know his class rank (bottom quartile) and Step I score (50 points below mine) because he told me a while back. And this kid did not cure cancer or do anything marvelous that would compensate for his poor stats. And yet there he was, along with several other subpar minority students from my class, sitting at the same interview that I worked my ass off to get. Then, to top it all off, at the end of the interview day, the minority students were wined and dined above and beyond what the rest of us got during their "minority recruitment reception".
What the hell is going on here!!!! Not only do they get into med school with subpar stats, but they get interviews at prestigious residency programs with subpar applications and then they get wined and dined once the get there!!!! Does anyone else see this as unfair, or is it just me?
the real question that this provokes is this: at what point to these minorities stop needing affirmative action? O.K., I'll grant you that letting some minorities into prestigious colleges with slightly lower stats because they come from poor schools might be o.k. (even that's stretching it). But once they're in these prestigious universities, should the standards for getting into med school be lower? I mean, after 4 years at Harvard, or Yale, is the playing field still not even? and then, once they get into med school, is the playing field still so uneven that they need tons of help getting into the top residencies? And I know for a fact that academic teaching hospitals actively recruit minorites for attending positions. When does it all stop?????
My guess is that it never stops and perhaps, like it or not, rightfully so. For without all this help, there might be no minority physicians in this country. Then who would be left to take care of all of the inner-city residents who can't afford medical care?
Either you can handle the material or you can't. There isn't any grade inflation for minorities only. Even if they have an advantage getting in, they still have to perform the same tasks as everyone else. You ever heard of extra credit on the USMLE for black students?
Just deal with it, man. Life is too short to be so pissed off about something you can't do anything about.
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You must be referring to the meetings with your local chapter's grand wizard.
Oh you're correct. You just suggested that every minority physician is subpar.
Oh my fault; I had you pegged as a COMPLETE racist.
almostMD (aka alreadya****HEAD)...Your opinions and your propagation of them are part of the problem that creates these idiotic stereotypes. I sincerely hope you realize that your elitist ideals make you, in fact, subpar in a larger community...that being humanity.
Why was this thread with that title allowed to remain open?
I'm sure if the title was "Why do Blacks complain about Segregation?" All the responses would have called the OP a racist and it would have been closed.
Just because whites are the majority doesn't give others a free pass to discriminate against them.
I'm sure if the title was "Why do Blacks complain about Segregation?" All the responses would have called the OP a racist and it would have been closed.
Just because whites are the majority doesn't give others a free pass to discriminate against them.
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I think part of the point of affirmative action is getting missed. It isn't so much that minorities "need" AA to be accepted as much as it is society's response to encourage minority professionals. I know that it sounds like the same thing...but the points vary a little bit. It's more than just about the poor kid who grew up in the inner city and did not have the educational advantages as others. It's also about fulfilling an obligation to provide society with URM doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. It helps improve the status of some URM so the next generation can enjoy some of the benefits that others have. It's also about creating positive role models in the professional communities that many URM otherwise might never see. The playing field is not level regardless how much money someone had growing up...because like it or not...racism still exists, which is evident from these threads.
Because ASIANS are typically the more shy and reserved type who have trouble standing up for themselves. Hows that for a sterotype?🙂
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Big Lebowski- I think your post was excellent and you really got to the point that I was alluding to at the end of my last post.
Affirmative action exists b/c society needs black doctors (or lawyers, etc.). Like I said, who else is going to take care of poor, inner city people? Certainly not the doctors that cater to the rich, for these docs rarely accept medicaid and will amost certainly not make a habit of treating those without insurance.
But the real issue is this: does promoting minority physicians just for the sake of having them in the workforce, a dangerous thing for their patients. I believe that it might be. Subpar med students beget subpar physicians and these physicians increase the morbidity and mortality of the patients they're taking care of.
O.K. I think the horse we've been beating here is dead.
Affirmative action exists b/c society needs black doctors (or lawyers, etc.). Like I said, who else is going to take care of poor, inner city people? Certainly not the doctors that cater to the rich, for these docs rarely accept medicaid and will amost certainly not make a habit of treating those without insurance.
But the real issue is this: does promoting minority physicians just for the sake of having them in the workforce, a dangerous thing for their patients. I believe that it might be. Subpar med students beget subpar physicians and these physicians increase the morbidity and mortality of the patients they're taking care of.
O.K. I think the horse we've been beating here is dead.
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Some points I want to add:
1. I do not think almostmd is a racist. He/she's a little too blunt for his own good, but I doubt he would admit many of these things without the cloak of anonymity. Overall, he is a hardworking person who is going to do a lot of good whereever he is. I think almostmd is entitled to a little bitching if he's who he really claims to be.
2. In general, there's factual evidence that can be used to support some of the stereotypes about URMs being "inferior." Also, there are factual entrance stats that could be used to support a simliar MD>DO generalization. Sure, I'm going into a DO school because I love the profession, but I can understand where some of the stereotypes come from. I would hope that URMs and DOs use some of that to fuel the next generation into performing better on the MCAT, doing better in undergrad GPAs, and overall "sticking it to 'em!" As of right now, we can just dismiss it as bitterness and try to do the best that we can do - we owe that much to future patients and ourselves.
3. All stereotypes (both positive and negative) aren't ridiculous. Whenever I used to go to parties or clubs as an undergrad, I noticed that most of the black folks completely blew the whites and Asians out of the water with their dancing. And this happened everywhere I went, even on vacations with friends to different cities. It could have been nature, nurture, or WHATEVER. But it was a phenomenon that I noticed. I am going to try to make sure my kids get every opportunity in the world to learn how to dance well (because it's a cool and impressive activity that helps in getting you laid!), but I am never going to make a ridiculous claim like Indian undergrads are better dancers than (or even equal to) black undergrads, because I know that isn't true. BUT, if we're talking about the greatest athletes of all time in the NBA, MLB, NFL, or the NCAA, then I bet Asians and particularly Indians dominate all discussions, no?
4. In the end, people should just worry about SELF-ACTUALIZATION. Screw what everyone else thinks. I will never have a problem seeing a URM or DO physician, because I know that the difference between the top 25% at Harvard Medical School and the bottom 10% at Harvard Medical School is really not that large. Also, the differences are not that large between an average MCAT of 27.5 at a DO school, an average MCAT of 29 at Temple, or even 32 at an Ivy med school. Of course, others are free to choose as they wish. I'm sure students with 1600 SATs felt vastly superior to students with 1400 SATs at times, but in the grand scheme of things, both were very smart and both will likely be successful at whatever they do. We tend to forget that there are real people attached to the numbers, and their personal traits are also important parts of the "complete package." The truly elite will realize that winners don't try to win the race, they just love to run.
1. I do not think almostmd is a racist. He/she's a little too blunt for his own good, but I doubt he would admit many of these things without the cloak of anonymity. Overall, he is a hardworking person who is going to do a lot of good whereever he is. I think almostmd is entitled to a little bitching if he's who he really claims to be.
2. In general, there's factual evidence that can be used to support some of the stereotypes about URMs being "inferior." Also, there are factual entrance stats that could be used to support a simliar MD>DO generalization. Sure, I'm going into a DO school because I love the profession, but I can understand where some of the stereotypes come from. I would hope that URMs and DOs use some of that to fuel the next generation into performing better on the MCAT, doing better in undergrad GPAs, and overall "sticking it to 'em!" As of right now, we can just dismiss it as bitterness and try to do the best that we can do - we owe that much to future patients and ourselves.
3. All stereotypes (both positive and negative) aren't ridiculous. Whenever I used to go to parties or clubs as an undergrad, I noticed that most of the black folks completely blew the whites and Asians out of the water with their dancing. And this happened everywhere I went, even on vacations with friends to different cities. It could have been nature, nurture, or WHATEVER. But it was a phenomenon that I noticed. I am going to try to make sure my kids get every opportunity in the world to learn how to dance well (because it's a cool and impressive activity that helps in getting you laid!), but I am never going to make a ridiculous claim like Indian undergrads are better dancers than (or even equal to) black undergrads, because I know that isn't true. BUT, if we're talking about the greatest athletes of all time in the NBA, MLB, NFL, or the NCAA, then I bet Asians and particularly Indians dominate all discussions, no?
4. In the end, people should just worry about SELF-ACTUALIZATION. Screw what everyone else thinks. I will never have a problem seeing a URM or DO physician, because I know that the difference between the top 25% at Harvard Medical School and the bottom 10% at Harvard Medical School is really not that large. Also, the differences are not that large between an average MCAT of 27.5 at a DO school, an average MCAT of 29 at Temple, or even 32 at an Ivy med school. Of course, others are free to choose as they wish. I'm sure students with 1600 SATs felt vastly superior to students with 1400 SATs at times, but in the grand scheme of things, both were very smart and both will likely be successful at whatever they do. We tend to forget that there are real people attached to the numbers, and their personal traits are also important parts of the "complete package." The truly elite will realize that winners don't try to win the race, they just love to run.
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"AA might get you into med school, but it won't get you through it."
this is false logic and is for the most part not true. once into a med school, you generally do not flunk out.... most people attribute this to the competitive admissions process, but this is not necessarily the case. it would not look for a med school to fail or have a lot of med students drop out. this would be reflected badly upon the school, so the med schools have a ton of programs to keep med students in. most provide free/ manditory tutoring for those students who are having problems. most have a 5 yr option where you take courses over if needed during the sumemr until you pass. if someone makes it through med school it is not necessarily a reflection of their brilliance. it's more a reflection of their determination. if someone doesn't make it through med school, it's not because they couldnt get through the classes -there are plenty of resources available to help your through the classes. the people that do not make it through med school are the people that run into a serious problem, most often personal which some how deteriorates their determination and will to go on (more so than the curriculum stress). Again, this is not my own thinking. this is coming straight from the horses mouth: from 3 people that my parents know who sit on 2 topnotch med school admissions boards or teach at the med schools themselves.
so the above quote needs to be restated: "AA gets you into med school, and the med school makes sure you get through it"
AA needs to either be abolished or radically changed, and i would vote for the former.
this is false logic and is for the most part not true. once into a med school, you generally do not flunk out.... most people attribute this to the competitive admissions process, but this is not necessarily the case. it would not look for a med school to fail or have a lot of med students drop out. this would be reflected badly upon the school, so the med schools have a ton of programs to keep med students in. most provide free/ manditory tutoring for those students who are having problems. most have a 5 yr option where you take courses over if needed during the sumemr until you pass. if someone makes it through med school it is not necessarily a reflection of their brilliance. it's more a reflection of their determination. if someone doesn't make it through med school, it's not because they couldnt get through the classes -there are plenty of resources available to help your through the classes. the people that do not make it through med school are the people that run into a serious problem, most often personal which some how deteriorates their determination and will to go on (more so than the curriculum stress). Again, this is not my own thinking. this is coming straight from the horses mouth: from 3 people that my parents know who sit on 2 topnotch med school admissions boards or teach at the med schools themselves.
so the above quote needs to be restated: "AA gets you into med school, and the med school makes sure you get through it"
AA needs to either be abolished or radically changed, and i would vote for the former.
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i dont blaim URM for defending AA.... if i were a URM, i would be all for it as well! i am for anything that would give a better chance at getting into med school over the next guy....
all u have to do is answer one question: "does AA give you a better chance at getting into med school? does it make it mroe likely that you will get in over a white guy with the same or better stats?"
OF COURSE IT DOES, and this is what's not right! it's almost like AA is racist against white guys- reverse discrimination!
the biggest thing wrong with AA is that it keeps the thought and notion of a difference between races alive! this is why it is wrong! if you want to have a country where everyone walks "hand in hand" regardless of race, then you cannot create laws or government programs or allow popular ideas that still promote seperation of races through treating each race differently! there is no ****ing difference between me and a black guy or white guy or anything! i believe that on average and that in the eyes of God we are equals, and this should be what is upheld. one race should not be given a better chance at something than another race- this will only keep the idea of racism alive all the longer!
to simplify:
Because of AA: people will start to assume (And they already have) that minority doctors get in and through med school only because they are minorities ---> this will make white guys angery against minorities----> this promotes racism!
i have heard people say: "oh, he's a black doctor? oh, we don't go them. blah blah--- they didnt have to work as hard as white doctors" ...is this right? of course not! but it is what AA does, and is why it needs to be abolished or radically changed!
you guys say that almostMD is being racist. i do not think he is, but regardless. there are MANY people that share his same beliefs, and do you want to know why they have those "racist" beliefs? BECAUSE AA PROMOTES THOSE THOUGHTS, BY PROVIDING A DIFFERENCE/SEPERATION OF RACES!
all u have to do is answer one question: "does AA give you a better chance at getting into med school? does it make it mroe likely that you will get in over a white guy with the same or better stats?"
OF COURSE IT DOES, and this is what's not right! it's almost like AA is racist against white guys- reverse discrimination!
the biggest thing wrong with AA is that it keeps the thought and notion of a difference between races alive! this is why it is wrong! if you want to have a country where everyone walks "hand in hand" regardless of race, then you cannot create laws or government programs or allow popular ideas that still promote seperation of races through treating each race differently! there is no ****ing difference between me and a black guy or white guy or anything! i believe that on average and that in the eyes of God we are equals, and this should be what is upheld. one race should not be given a better chance at something than another race- this will only keep the idea of racism alive all the longer!
to simplify:
Because of AA: people will start to assume (And they already have) that minority doctors get in and through med school only because they are minorities ---> this will make white guys angery against minorities----> this promotes racism!
i have heard people say: "oh, he's a black doctor? oh, we don't go them. blah blah--- they didnt have to work as hard as white doctors" ...is this right? of course not! but it is what AA does, and is why it needs to be abolished or radically changed!
you guys say that almostMD is being racist. i do not think he is, but regardless. there are MANY people that share his same beliefs, and do you want to know why they have those "racist" beliefs? BECAUSE AA PROMOTES THOSE THOUGHTS, BY PROVIDING A DIFFERENCE/SEPERATION OF RACES!
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if you hate racism, you should hate AA: it's not helping you out! i would hate to think that a substantial percent of people thought I got into med school based on my race and thought that I was an inferior doctor based on my race!
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I would suggest that the source of information in this post may be reconsulted. It may also be helpful for interested parties to examine USMLE Step I pass rates, which do range between 85-95% at most schools. I may also recommend consideration of the 5-15% who fail the exam initially, 40-60% pass upon the second attempt. Although it may be a small point, I believe there are students whose failures in medical school are attributable to more than personal reasons. I also think it may not be quite the case that many schools make a tremendous effort to prevent students from failing. In fact, I believe that a first year drop-out rate of 1-3% is not considered unhealthy.
I believe that passing the medical school classes, clerkships, and the USMLE I&II are no small feats. I do not think that anyone would do well to make light of these accomplishments, least of all those who may be unfamiliar with medical school.
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"Just curious. So if a doctor was from Spain would you see him. He would be hispanic but he is also european so he could be considered caucasian. How about a Mexican doctor who was light skinned with blue eyes (they do exist). Would you see her because she does look white, but would be considered a minority. Or when you say minority do you simply mean black since those are the cases you are referring to? I hope you realize how ridiculous of a statement you have made since there can be all kinds of minorities that could pass as non-minorities."
A couple of things...1) people from spain are NOT considered Hispanic. They are considered white europeans. This is a fact. Spanish people receive no preference in the admissions process, they have to earn their way in fair and square. So yes, I'd have no problem going to a Spanish physician.
2) Yes, there are mexican citizens with blue eyes who look white, but many of these said people are actually european transplants who emmigrated to mexico. I have met several "Mexican" Jews whose parents fled europe after the Holocaust. They are completely white, and unfairly, they can be considered hispanic and get preference in admissions (believe it, I've seen in happen!)
So basically, unless I can actually see a person and see that they are a minority physician, I guess I would plan on avoiding physicians with hispanic last names. I guess I'd also have to avoid doctors who graduated from Howard med school, or any of the other historically black med schools.
I know that I cannot possibly tell 100% if a doctor is a minority from their last name or where they went to med school, but it's a start. Besides, I currently choose my physicians through referrals from friends and family who have seen that physician before (thank God I have a PPO and not an HMO).
Once again, think of me as a racist if you want, I don't really care that much. I know I'm not a racist, just a realist. After all, there's nothing in this world more precious than your health. Why would I want to take any chances entrusting my healthcare needs to anyone I would have even the slightest doubt about?
A couple of things...1) people from spain are NOT considered Hispanic. They are considered white europeans. This is a fact. Spanish people receive no preference in the admissions process, they have to earn their way in fair and square. So yes, I'd have no problem going to a Spanish physician.
2) Yes, there are mexican citizens with blue eyes who look white, but many of these said people are actually european transplants who emmigrated to mexico. I have met several "Mexican" Jews whose parents fled europe after the Holocaust. They are completely white, and unfairly, they can be considered hispanic and get preference in admissions (believe it, I've seen in happen!)
So basically, unless I can actually see a person and see that they are a minority physician, I guess I would plan on avoiding physicians with hispanic last names. I guess I'd also have to avoid doctors who graduated from Howard med school, or any of the other historically black med schools.
I know that I cannot possibly tell 100% if a doctor is a minority from their last name or where they went to med school, but it's a start. Besides, I currently choose my physicians through referrals from friends and family who have seen that physician before (thank God I have a PPO and not an HMO).
Once again, think of me as a racist if you want, I don't really care that much. I know I'm not a racist, just a realist. After all, there's nothing in this world more precious than your health. Why would I want to take any chances entrusting my healthcare needs to anyone I would have even the slightest doubt about?
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The fact is, when all races are considered in the admissions process, whites are also recipients of AA (including you almostMD). This is a FACT. It is much HARDER for an Asian American to gain admission to a top medical school / residency program than it is for a white american. For all of you white racist students who believe that a black student is holding YOUR spot in medical school, think about the Asian American student?s spot that you might be holding. Asian Students should find some scapegoat white medical student and take them to the supreme court for unfair admissions. Asian students must work twice as hard as white students to gain admission and yet the majority (whites) don't see this as being wrong. If we were to stop race based admissions, the Asian student population would increase dramatically and the white population would decrease in medical and other schools (ex. uc berkely undergrad). This thread proves that WHITE RACIST AMERICA IS ALIVE AND WELL!
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I still have not heard of any medical student having a 45T and a 4.0 from Harvard. Everyone is susceptible to patronization, and that's why most successful people have a lot of humility. Our society loves to quantitate, and I think it causes unjustifiably enormous egos. We all have our flaws, but many get caught up in the numbers game. Is the difference between a 3.7 and a 3.6 really that large? Some people need to look over their own transcripts and lifestyles and really focus on the flaws. Did any of those prevent you from being a viable and even excellent candidate for med school admission? Is every healthcare need a life-threatening one? Do unworthy candidates really become neurosurgeons? Would hospitals admit, leave alone court, individuals that they think can't even hack it in their residencies? What exactly does "best man for the job" mean? Did the SAT, the MCAT, the USMLE I or II, or any other QUANTITATIVE measure ever really predict your ability to learn at the next level (or was it the fact that you were just a hard worker)?
Reading this thread has only lowered my impression of students with high numbers. But, I always try to look for the goodness in people, so I'll probably just dismiss most of it as blooming sexual frustration due to overachieving too often.
Reading this thread has only lowered my impression of students with high numbers. But, I always try to look for the goodness in people, so I'll probably just dismiss most of it as blooming sexual frustration due to overachieving too often.
I totally agree, ramsestiger.
AlmostMD, lets say, hypothetically, you choose a doctor with the whitest sounding last name you can find in the yellow pages. If he were to make a mistake, small or large, would that change your opinion of all white doctors, or doctors as a whole? God forbid you get screwed over by someone who "deserved" to get into med school.
Lets just agree on the fact that humans are falliable. Regardless of whether a candidate was "fit" to become a doctor, according to whatever standards, he is just as likely to make a mistake as any other doctor (though some will be more likely to get away with it than others). No amount of training will make anyone perfect.
i seriously don't understand why everyone here is trying to convince others that AA is wrong or AA is right! alsmostMD, it's not like some minority is going to read one of your posts and say, "you know, that redneck a$$ peckerwood has a point. i really don't deserve to be a doctor". everybody, save your breath cuz these stupid AA threads are only gonna piss you off more regardless of you opinion.
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Teacher: Do white people ever go to the islands because they were having a difficult time getting into American medical schools?
Kids: No, white doctors are perfect in every way!
Teacher: Good. That's what I got from my experience, too! Now, do you know if the basic standards that have been developed to judge whether a person is good enough to practice medicine in America are effective?
Kids: No, because it's like you said, they're only good enough for white people, not those dirty COLORED people!
Teacher: Good. My husband saw that first hand at a top 10 medical school! The nerve of some adcoms, letting in negros, spics, and towelheads because they're barely smart enough to pass and practice in America. And to think, ones from our white people should have had the spots!
Kids: But teacher, didn't you say towelheads get in on their own merit?
Teacher: Whoops, I forgot! But still, it's a shame that those Asians who study way too much are allowed to take spots away from hard-working white Americans. It's almost like they want us white people to give up our great lives to study like them just so we can compete for OUR spots. But hey, that topic is for another day. 🙂
Kids: 😕 But teacher, couldn't the blackies and the spics say that we whites study too much? Should we all just go see the Asian doctors???
Teacher: 🙄 JUST LOOK AT THE FREAKING NUMBERS!!! Asians study too much and URMs don't study enough. We white people are in the middle and we study just enough to be superior to everyone!!! Whites > Asians because we're cooler, and Whites > URMs because we're smarter. That's why we're the most deserving.
Kids: Wouldn't that mean the URMs are cooler and more deserving because of that?
Teacher:
JUST SHUT UP AND LEARN WHAT I SAID. You'll find out what I mean later - America belongs to whites, not *******, spics, towelheads, or squinties.
Kids: Do Asians go to the islands for medical school because they had trouble in the U.S.?
Teacher: Of course.
Kids: Do members of every race go to the islands, sometimes because they aren't perfect candidates for med school in the U.S.? Does that mean that you never know what you're going to get when you're knocked unconscious and struggling to survive at a hospital?
Teacher: Kids, just hope that you're always in a position to choose your white doctor, and only worry about things you can control. And try not to see ANY minorities as equals!
Kids: Teacher, the black kid in the back that you didn't see just pulled out his ding dong! 😱
Kids: No, white doctors are perfect in every way!
Teacher: Good. That's what I got from my experience, too! Now, do you know if the basic standards that have been developed to judge whether a person is good enough to practice medicine in America are effective?
Kids: No, because it's like you said, they're only good enough for white people, not those dirty COLORED people!
Teacher: Good. My husband saw that first hand at a top 10 medical school! The nerve of some adcoms, letting in negros, spics, and towelheads because they're barely smart enough to pass and practice in America. And to think, ones from our white people should have had the spots!
Kids: But teacher, didn't you say towelheads get in on their own merit?
Teacher: Whoops, I forgot! But still, it's a shame that those Asians who study way too much are allowed to take spots away from hard-working white Americans. It's almost like they want us white people to give up our great lives to study like them just so we can compete for OUR spots. But hey, that topic is for another day. 🙂
Kids: 😕 But teacher, couldn't the blackies and the spics say that we whites study too much? Should we all just go see the Asian doctors???
Teacher: 🙄 JUST LOOK AT THE FREAKING NUMBERS!!! Asians study too much and URMs don't study enough. We white people are in the middle and we study just enough to be superior to everyone!!! Whites > Asians because we're cooler, and Whites > URMs because we're smarter. That's why we're the most deserving.
Kids: Wouldn't that mean the URMs are cooler and more deserving because of that?
Teacher:
JUST SHUT UP AND LEARN WHAT I SAID. You'll find out what I mean later - America belongs to whites, not *******, spics, towelheads, or squinties. Kids: Do Asians go to the islands for medical school because they had trouble in the U.S.?
Teacher: Of course.
Kids: Do members of every race go to the islands, sometimes because they aren't perfect candidates for med school in the U.S.? Does that mean that you never know what you're going to get when you're knocked unconscious and struggling to survive at a hospital?
Teacher: Kids, just hope that you're always in a position to choose your white doctor, and only worry about things you can control. And try not to see ANY minorities as equals!
Kids: Teacher, the black kid in the back that you didn't see just pulled out his ding dong! 😱
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Looking at the results after the passage of 209 in California, enrollment for both asians AND whites went up. Although the increase was smaller for whites than asians. So statistically there are no "whites holding asian spots". If there were, then that would also be racism and I would be against it.
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25% of Stanford's undergrad population is Asian. I was rejected with a 1560 on the SAT and perfect grades in the toughest classes, GREAT EC's, multilingual, started learning English at age 12, etc., etc., etc. - for colleges, I was as competitive as 99% of the students at Harvard, Stanford, or any of the schools in America. I was rejected at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford and a few other biggies, but made it into the lower ivies Penn and Cornell along with partial schollies at UNC and CMU. I chose UNC and loved it.
The simple point is this: I was fine with my choices - if a black or hispanic student with a 1200 got in instead of me, it doesn't burn me up because I realize that there are massive inequities among the racial divisions in America today. And, a 1200 isn't a bad score - the person certainly has the aptitude for success. If a few blacks or Native Americans catch a break after 300+ years of their race's oppression and likely facing racists without even knowing it, I don't really mind. The intelligent white or Asian students who get "screwed" don't exactly run off to Hamburger College or something. They're fine in the long run. If this were a society based on pure numbers, I'm sure whites would be bitching and moaning about more than half the classes at schools like Stanford and Harvard being filled by overzealous Asians. You guys have to complain about something!
The same applies in other situations - people getting a few breaks to improve the overall images of entire races in the country doesn't really hurt anyone. People that want to go to medical school can go to medical school - stop moaning about how unfair it is. What do you know about living in America with non-white skin??? Sure, complain about AA, but forget about the URM experience... how convenient. You have no idea how many times I have heard the word ****** in my life because people thought I wouldn't mind.
Physicians aren't gods, and none of them are perfect - we're suppose to be accepting of flaws in others, not throwing around the same b.s. arguments for suppressing URMs or condescending any group with slightly lower overall numbers. If they're really not good enough, they'll be weeded out so there's no need to worry your pretty little head about it. Have some faith in the system - I strongly believe that anyone who can pass ALL of the requirements to practice in America is a good physician. ALL physicians have their flaws, but it's ridiculous to single out groups and say they're not good enough to treat your papercut. I'll attend a DO school in the fall because I really liked the philosophy. If some preppy little MD with self esteem issues tries to patronize me, I might rip off a genital or two.
If the whites are really being oppressed in the USA, then Britney Spears masturbates to a picture of me on the wall!!!
The simple point is this: I was fine with my choices - if a black or hispanic student with a 1200 got in instead of me, it doesn't burn me up because I realize that there are massive inequities among the racial divisions in America today. And, a 1200 isn't a bad score - the person certainly has the aptitude for success. If a few blacks or Native Americans catch a break after 300+ years of their race's oppression and likely facing racists without even knowing it, I don't really mind. The intelligent white or Asian students who get "screwed" don't exactly run off to Hamburger College or something. They're fine in the long run. If this were a society based on pure numbers, I'm sure whites would be bitching and moaning about more than half the classes at schools like Stanford and Harvard being filled by overzealous Asians. You guys have to complain about something!
The same applies in other situations - people getting a few breaks to improve the overall images of entire races in the country doesn't really hurt anyone. People that want to go to medical school can go to medical school - stop moaning about how unfair it is. What do you know about living in America with non-white skin??? Sure, complain about AA, but forget about the URM experience... how convenient. You have no idea how many times I have heard the word ****** in my life because people thought I wouldn't mind.
Physicians aren't gods, and none of them are perfect - we're suppose to be accepting of flaws in others, not throwing around the same b.s. arguments for suppressing URMs or condescending any group with slightly lower overall numbers. If they're really not good enough, they'll be weeded out so there's no need to worry your pretty little head about it. Have some faith in the system - I strongly believe that anyone who can pass ALL of the requirements to practice in America is a good physician. ALL physicians have their flaws, but it's ridiculous to single out groups and say they're not good enough to treat your papercut. I'll attend a DO school in the fall because I really liked the philosophy. If some preppy little MD with self esteem issues tries to patronize me, I might rip off a genital or two.
If the whites are really being oppressed in the USA, then Britney Spears masturbates to a picture of me on the wall!!!
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almostMD,
You're not a racist because of what you said. That term is WAY overused nowadays. I also think you'll probably make a great physician. That being said, I think you're casting an awfully wide net of prejudice.
I'm white and will likely be attending a historically black university this fall. Academically, I'm above average for state med schools. My extracurriculars and med experience aren't as good as they probably should be (which is why I'm still on hold at state meds). Anyway, when I get an MD, you wouldn't come to me as a physician? Why not? Because of the school I went to? That doesn't make a bit of sense.
It's ignorant to say you wouldn't go to minority doctors. It's not racist...it just doesn't make any sense!! There are too many good minority doctors out there to make such a blanket statement. 🙂
You're not a racist because of what you said. That term is WAY overused nowadays. I also think you'll probably make a great physician. That being said, I think you're casting an awfully wide net of prejudice.
I'm white and will likely be attending a historically black university this fall. Academically, I'm above average for state med schools. My extracurriculars and med experience aren't as good as they probably should be (which is why I'm still on hold at state meds). Anyway, when I get an MD, you wouldn't come to me as a physician? Why not? Because of the school I went to? That doesn't make a bit of sense.
It's ignorant to say you wouldn't go to minority doctors. It's not racist...it just doesn't make any sense!! There are too many good minority doctors out there to make such a blanket statement. 🙂
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I suppose no one is going to come out and admit that maybe his/her viewpoint of physician sectors was a little distorted.
I suppose no one is going to come out and admit that maybe you are an idiot for bumping this dreaded thread back to the top 🙄
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You know, I am kinda glad this dreaded thread has been bumped back up to the top and I am bumping it up there again because I think a lot of what has been revealed in this thread is very important to read.
I for one am absolutly shocked and appalled that one, the sort of attitudes expressed by almostmd still exist and exist among well educated people, and two, that there are so many people that don't even recognize them as racism! What else is it when you make gross generalizations about another group of people based on a limited experience? What else is it when you say that someone is MOST LIKELY not as intelligent or well qualified as someone else because of their SKIN color or LAST NAME!!!! If you don't want to call it racist, call it prejudice...neither are characteristics that any doctor should possess.
Perhaps they should screen for that in medical school applications.
As for the last name thing, that is truely the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I am about as white as they come and will be marrying someone with a very hispanic last name. Guess you won't be coming to me. But, come to think of it, that is more than okay with me.
I would like to point out for the hundreth time, medical licencing exams exist for a reason. You cannot be a doctor without passing them and many intelligent people have worked long and hard ensuring that only a competent physician could pass them.
It doesn't matter how much someone was coached to get through medical school or their exams. What matters is that they got through.
People need to get off their bloody high horse.
Sorry for the rather incoherent rant. Just a little blown over by some of the things I have read. Blatent stupidity frustrates me to no end.
I for one am absolutly shocked and appalled that one, the sort of attitudes expressed by almostmd still exist and exist among well educated people, and two, that there are so many people that don't even recognize them as racism! What else is it when you make gross generalizations about another group of people based on a limited experience? What else is it when you say that someone is MOST LIKELY not as intelligent or well qualified as someone else because of their SKIN color or LAST NAME!!!! If you don't want to call it racist, call it prejudice...neither are characteristics that any doctor should possess.
Perhaps they should screen for that in medical school applications.
As for the last name thing, that is truely the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I am about as white as they come and will be marrying someone with a very hispanic last name. Guess you won't be coming to me. But, come to think of it, that is more than okay with me.
I would like to point out for the hundreth time, medical licencing exams exist for a reason. You cannot be a doctor without passing them and many intelligent people have worked long and hard ensuring that only a competent physician could pass them.
It doesn't matter how much someone was coached to get through medical school or their exams. What matters is that they got through.
People need to get off their bloody high horse.
Sorry for the rather incoherent rant. Just a little blown over by some of the things I have read. Blatent stupidity frustrates me to no end.
Well michiMO I think it's time you got off YOUR high horse. What gives you the right to call the opinions of others "blatant stupidity"? It's their opinion of things and I think everyone has made some valid arguments here. You seem very intolerant to the ideas of others and that's a characteristic "that no doctor should possess." You need to handle yourself. If I'm a black ER doctor and a KKK member is rushed to me in critical condition, I'm not gonna explode in his face for his views. I'm gonna take that hood off his head and save his life. Open your mind.
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see michiMO, this is the reason that we should all just let this beast die.
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