Why do you want to spend 160K more to go to a private school?

[plainolerichie]

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Why would you want to spend 160K more (in loans) to go to a private school on the other side of the country instead of going to your state school? When you graduate, you'll probably be 200K in debt instead of maybe 40-50K? Is it worth it? And it will be hard to move your stuff to that school so far from home in a city you've only been to once?

HELP ME ANSWER THIS QUESTION PLEASE!!!

I just got into Keck, and my dad absolutely hates the idea of me going there! I was accepted into UT Memphis and got a 13400 dollar scholarship which means it would cost 25K a year and I got no scholarships at Keck, meaning it would cost 65K a year.

Should I even worry too much about money? The only "practical" (and by practical, I mean financial) reasoning I can think of is that I have a better chance of getting a competitive residency placement. I don't care much about money, I just need to somehow explain this to my parents.

FYI: I've been in TN every year of my life (22 years, today's my B-day btw) and would LOVE to go to a new area. Plus, I really liked Keck.

 

[EndSong]

Most of the doctors I have talked to have all told me its not worth the extra money. 4 years out of your life is very little when you consider its out of some 72 or 80. Also, most doctors will tell you that there's very little difference in your program unless you A) want to be a researcher, B) want to be an academic (in which case costlier and brand-name universities will definitely help) or C) have chosen a very particular specialty in which the costlier school is known for. Most schools tend to pick their own for residency programs and if you really want to be say an emergency room doc, USC is hands down a better choice. Otherwise there's no logical reason to choose 150 k more in debt. Also, USC is not such a brand name school that it would be more helpful to A or B than Memphis. Plus you got some great food around that area and good blues music.

 

[MediMama23]

I don't think going to Keck over UT Memphis will get you a more competitive residency. Getting a competitive residency depends on grades/rank (if your school has those), board scores, and interviews. People get into competitive residencies from every single school in the United States. You have to have the credentials, not just the school name to back you up.

Don't trip off your dad; at some point, you've got to start living for you. If you want to go to UT Memphis, stay there. If you want to go to Keck, tell him you're going to Keck, and that he should think of it as a nice vacation spot for him to visit you at. 😎

 

[plainolerichie]

Well, I'm just curious, what is almost everyone else on this site's reasoning for going to these "decent" or top 50 private schools over their own state schools? What does justify the costs if anything?

 

[MediMama23]

Well, I'm just curious, what is almost everyone else on this site's reasoning for going to these "decent" or top 50 private schools over their own state schools? What does justify the costs if anything?

Ego.
Reasearch opportunities.
Area, population, and hospitals in those areas.
Don't like their state school.
Didn't get into their state school (this highly applies to CA residents, poor things 🙁 ).
Step 1 pass rates and Match lists.

Man, the list goes on...

 

[MirrorTodd]

You can't always get into your state school and the prices of private schools had dropped or so I believe. My state (hawaii) only has one medical school and I really don't want to be stuck in this rock forever. I would like to get out and explore different areas. Those prices don't really mean much because everything else is out-of state for me which means higher prices everywhere. I like how the private schools charge equal for in-state and out-of-staters. JHU charges less than 40K per year which to me is outstanding. I never would dreamed that I could pay less than 50k when I first thought of becoming a doctor.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

go with the money. l.a. is a (much) nicer place to live than memphis, but after 4 years you'll be able to live well somewhere else with far less debt. ut-mem offers good clinical exposure (poor city with high crime and obesity rates).

 

[QofQuimica]

Well, I'm just curious, what is almost everyone else on this site's reasoning for going to these "decent" or top 50 private schools over their own state schools? What does justify the costs if anything?

To my mind, not much short of a scholarship, assuming you are a single, trad-aged student. There would have to be really extenuating circumstances to make me give up a scholarship like the one you got from UT to go to an expensive private school where I had to pay full price.

Look, if you want to go to Keck, why don't you apply there for residency? Then you'll get the best of both worlds: you get your MD on the cheap, and the school will actually pay YOU (albeit not much, but still!) to come.

 

[akaz]

go with the money. l.a. is a (much) nicer place to live than memphis, but after 4 years you'll be able to live well somewhere else with far less debt. ut-mem offers good clinical exposure (poor city with high crime and obesity rates).

It depends. I am choosing Cornell over my state U of Mich. However, that is because I am interested in Research. I went to U of Mich undergrad, and then Harvard for grad. I realize how extensive the research opps are at Rockefellar and Sloan Kettering. They are good at Mich, but I know my area is better at Rockefellar and sloan. The other reason is every year for 10 yrs Cornel has had at least 2 students match in what I want where I want. U of Mich has not. U of Mich has a great match list, just not in the very particular area I want. Just think it through. I am older so I know what i am very interested in. If you are undecided, it probably doesn't matter--Unless you want a residency at that school

 

[NonTradMed]

Well, I'm just curious, what is almost everyone else on this site's reasoning for going to these "decent" or top 50 private schools over their own state schools? What does justify the costs if anything?

In some ways, people attend a private med schools over their public med schools for the same reason they apply to private colleges over their state ones.

Many wealthier the private med school may have more money to offer their students than their state school, so it's not necessarily cheaper to go instate.

Even if there is a cost differential, the scholarships covered by a private med school may lower the difference so much that other factors, such as location, residency placement, USMLE scores, major hospitals, research opportunities may be bigger reasons to attend the slightly more expensive school.

Of course, there's also the fact that some people are into academic medicine, research or ultra competitive residency. Yes, every single MD school has people going into rad and derm, but some schools may have give people a better shot at it and/or have more people who end up in those places.

 

[almost_there]

Well, I'm just curious, what is almost everyone else on this site's reasoning for going to these "decent" or top 50 private schools over their own state schools? What does justify the costs if anything?

For me, location is important. If you were thinking about potentially going to California, it is MUCH easier to get a residency in California if you go to a California school. Sure, you can go anywhere in any field if you are tops in your class at any medical school, but places like their own home-grown graduates, or graduates of a nearby medical school.

I'm not sure that "top 50 private" vs. "state school" is really how the decision should be made. Specific things about each school that meet YOUR needs (e.g. research-intensive, serve a large immigrant population, have a really great surgery program, location that you want to be, near a beach so you can surf in your free time) are the things that should be considered.

And when there is a large cost difference, you gotta decide how much these things are worth to you. It is 4 precious years of your life, and you want to enjoy it, as well as set yourself up for the rest of it, financially and career-wise.

 

[jojocola]

happy birthday. i have no other useful information to provide to you. sorry

 

[dbhvt]

Ego.
Reasearch opportunities.
Area, population, and hospitals in those areas.
Don't like their state school.
Didn't get into their state school (this highly applies to CA residents, poor things 🙁 ).
Step 1 pass rates and Match lists.
private school is actually CHEAPER because their state school is dumb

 

[almost_there]

Oh, and happy b-day, BTW! 🙂

 

[Dookter]

I was in sort of the same situation as the OP. I am from TN and was accepted at UT. I also was invited to interview for their full scholarship [I didn't get it, but I was then in the running for other scholarships b/c of the initial round]. I also got into Duke, WashU, Emory, and ETSU. I am going to Duke, which is tough since I am from Memphis, my family lives in Memphis, and my fiance is from Memphis. We are packing up and moving all the way to crappy Durham, NC, all just to go to Duke.

However, due to Duke's rockin' finaid, I am paying about the same as it would cost me to attend UT. [WashU gave me an even better package that would have been cheaper than UT!]. UT is so slow to hand out finaid awards that I was absolutely not even thinking of going there....it would have to be REALLY cheap for me to go there over Duke, but they didn't send out their awards.

So the point in all this ranting is this: private schools are not always more expensive. If you can attend an elite school for the same money, it makes sense.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

No one should try to pick a specialty before ever attending medical school, but I would try to consider where you think your interests are heading. If you're thinking of interventional cardiology or neurosurgery, I wouldn't worry too much about the money if you want to go to Keck. (I would consider, however, that the difference in tuition won't be all of your additional expenses by a long shot - housing in Southern California is going to be 3 times what you're used to, maybe more - you'll end-up having at least one roommate all through school and probably through residency. Things like car insurance and even gasoline are much more expensive in Southern California.) If you think you might be attracted to primary care, however, the additional loan payment to pay off the Keck debt will put a real crimp in your lifestyle.

 

[mdavey]

looking at the MSAR average indebtedness, it looks to only be about $25-30k difference between state and private school in the end, so don't necessary think that private schools are all that much more expensive.

 

[thinknofu3]

Hey guys - I faced this decision just a few days ago. I had been accepted to UIC (my state school) and then got off the waitlist at University of Chicago. I have a bunch of reasons for spending the extra money - first, the class size is much smaller (104 as opposed to 175 just in Chicago), the pass/fail curriculum, an incredible adminstration,and a school that really helps you pursue your interests outside of medicine as well. Also, coming from a private school for undergrad, and seeing UIC, you find that some state schools cannot provide you with the same resources that a private school can. It's sometimes easy to say that there "isn't a difference", but when an adminstration can spend more money on it's students, there is always a difference. Of course, the public schools are good schools, but in terms of these two, when I matched them up, the choice was really clear for me.

 

[frostynorthwind]

Many of these factors have already been addressed but they also influenced my decision to choose an out of state private (Pritzker) versus my one and only midwestern public state institution (University of Kansas). Here is why I chose Pritzker:

Cost: Only 50 K more to attend Pritzker after financial aid
Location: I dislike the climate, landscape, homogeneity, corporatization, and backward views toward science and research that I have encountered here in Kansas.
Population diversity: Sadly, the population is largely homogenous in terms of socio-political views and biases. Cultural diversity is difficult to come by in my current home state.
Quality of life/ Personal happiness: Purely subjective on this one
Research opportunities: In-state Public institution: "It would behoove you all to find your own opportunities to do research while a med student." Pritzker: "We strongly encourage you to do research. Not only do we provide opportunities for 2/3 of each class to do research here but we'll also provide you with a 4K minimum stipend for the summer between years 1 and 2."
Diversity of clinical experiences: Chicago vs. Kansas City/ Wichita
Pre-clinical cirriculum style: personal skeptic of PBL, here. I prefer the traditional cirriculum at Pritzker that yearly undergoes revision in response to student feedback in order to better serve students. The 2006 entering class at my state school will contend with an entirely new systems-based cirriculum that relies heavily on PBL.
Opportunity to pursue non-medical academic/ music interests: More opportunities for me to perform in chamber music settings in Chicago than KC/Wichita.
Opportunity to pursue joint degrees: At Pritzker, if I should so choose, I can pursue a MBA, JD, PhD, or other advanced degree through the U. of Chicago network. These opportunities do not exist at my state school.
Third/Fourth Year required/elective rotations: Pritzker emphasizes the specialties by devoting more rotation time to them. State school emphasizes primary care
Mentality of the administration: The philosophies of large public state schools and their smaller private counterparts seem to me to be inherently different. I would prefer to be an individual with a name rather than a seven digit number. The administration of Pritzker strongly impressed me with regard to their eagerness and willingness to help their students on a professional and personal basis. Regrettably, the administration at my public state school did not convey such an attitude when dealing with students.
Potential for networking: Chicago versus KC/Wichita
Future practice opportunities: I do not intend to return to Kansas to practice.


Looking at medical school as an investment for a career I will potentially practice for the next 50 years, I would say $50,000 dollars is a pretty sound investment considering the greater opportunities it will afford me. Please note, however, PRESTIGE was left off the list intentionally. I realize there are much more prestigous and higher ranked institutions out there. Ultimately, I know it's my responsibility to take advantage of the opporunities Pritzker (and my additional $50,000) will offer me, and I have every intention of doing so. 🙂

 

[SRK85]

There is pretty much no difference between state and private schools.

 

[dbhvt]

looking at the MSAR average indebtedness, it looks to only be about $25-30k difference between state and private school in the end, so don't necessary think that private schools are all that much more expensive.

Average indebtedness is a really dumb statistic.

Edit: That is, it's not a good way to judge how much debt you will end up with at the end of medical school.

 

[dbhvt]

There is pretty much no difference between state and private schools.

Uhh, how about cost?

 

[plainolerichie]

Many of these factors have already been addressed but they also influenced my decision to choose an out of state private (Pritzker) versus my one and only midwestern public state institution (University of Kansas). Here is why I chose Pritzker:

Cost: Only 50 K more to attend Pritzker after financial aid
Location: I dislike the climate, landscape, homogeneity, corporatization, and backward views toward science and research that I have encountered here in Kansas.
Population diversity: Sadly, the population is largely homogenous in terms of socio-political views and biases. Cultural diversity is difficult to come by in my current home state.
Quality of life/ Personal happiness: Purely subjective on this one
Research opportunities: In-state Public institution: "It would behoove you all to find your own opportunities to do research while a med student." Pritzker: "We strongly encourage you to do research. Not only do we provide opportunities for 2/3 of each class to do research here but we'll also provide you with a 4K minimum stipend for the summer between years 1 and 2."
Diversity of clinical experiences: Chicago vs. Kansas City/ Wichita
Pre-clinical cirriculum style: personal skeptic of PBL, here. I prefer the traditional cirriculum at Pritzker that yearly undergoes revision in response to student feedback in order to better serve students. The 2006 entering class at my state school will contend with an entirely new systems-based cirriculum that relies heavily on PBL.
Opportunity to pursue non-medical academic/ music interests: More opportunities for me to perform in chamber music settings in Chicago than KC/Wichita.
Opportunity to pursue joint degrees: At Pritzker, if I should so choose, I can pursue a MBA, JD, PhD, or other advanced degree through the U. of Chicago network. These opportunities do not exist at my state school.
Third/Fourth Year required/elective rotations: Pritzker emphasizes the specialties by devoting more rotation time to them. State school emphasizes primary care
Mentality of the administration: The philosophies of large public state schools and their smaller private counterparts seem to me to be inherently different. I would prefer to be an individual with a name rather than a seven digit number. The administration of Pritzker strongly impressed me with regard to their eagerness and willingness to help their students on a professional and personal basis. Regrettably, the administration at my public state school did not convey such an attitude when dealing with students.
Potential for networking: Chicago versus KC/Wichita
Future practice opportunities: I do not intend to return to Kansas to practice.


Looking at medical school as an investment for a career I will potentially practice for the next 50 years, I would say $50,000 dollars is a pretty sound investment considering the greater opportunities it will afford me. Please note, however, PRESTIGE was left off the list intentionally. I realize there are much more prestigous and higher ranked institutions out there. Ultimately, I know it's my responsibility to take advantage of the opporunities Pritzker (and my additional $50,000) will offer me, and I have every intention of doing so. 🙂

All of the people I have heard from have said that the price difference will ultimately be "little" like 50K or 25K. For me, it would be huge!!! Like 40K a year!!! Granted, I would like to go to Keck a whole hell of a lot more than UT Memphis.

Here's me repeating one persons post.

Cost: 40K a year!!!
Location: Memphis vs. L.A. (huge freaking difference)
Population diversity: Both have "diverse" populations in termrs of race/ethnicity numbers. But I really would like a change of culture from TN and the South. Plus, LA is definitely more diverse.
Quality of life/ Personal happiness: The only plus for UT is I could probably get a better appartment. Otherwise, I'll be much happier in LA.
Research opportunities: Keck wins here for research opportunities
Diversity of clinical experiences: Both have large teaching hospitals with lots of hands on experience, but I still think Keck wins here (LAC is biggest hospital in the West)
Pre-clinical cirriculum style: Both lectures, USC also has these small group sessions too.
Opportunity to pursue non-medical academic: I don't have any major non-medical interests, other than maybe research.
Third/Fourth Year required/elective rotations: The rotations are more elective and personal at Keck. I will have to learn Spanish though for Keck (I've taken it in college).
Mentality of the administration: I didn't feel like a number at UT Memphis at all. I'm pretty sure the Dean knows exactly who I am (there were only two other black guys going there). I had called a lot (even speaking to him directly some) and been there twice, both times meeting the Dean. I think class size is about equal. I have not spoken to the deans at Keck enough to make a fair judgement about the administration, but the little that I have spoken to them, they seemed really friendly.
Potential for networking: I'd think LA would be a greater opportunity
Future practice opportunities: This is probably the biggest one. Almost alll of UT Memphis's residency placements are in TN or Memphis specifically, especially Surgery (which is what I want to go into). I'm thinking if I go to UT Memphis, I'll probably be there for the next 8 years or at least in TN. But I don't know Keck's residency placements (which scares me too)! Even if they are in California mostly, that would be a huge plus for Keck.

My logic is (and call me crazy if you must), although the cost difference is great, I'll still be a doctor and living comfortably, even if half of my income for the first two or three years of practice is going to go to paying off loans.

 

[kyidmnmaiv]

I spent my freshman year of undergrad at a private school before transferring to a public state school. I love my state school, and it's actually very similar to the private I was at. However, I know I definitely want to go private for medical school. It has nothing to do with the individual programs; for me, it's more of an atmospheric preference.

My public school is in the middle of massive budget cuts. Faculty numbers are being reduced while they're trying to attract a larger student population. Health services are being cut back (we don't even have a SANE nurse anymore). My department is in need of better facilities, but that won't be happening any time soon. Would any of this ever happen at my old private? Hell no.

I've also noticed a major difference in student attitudes. Granted, as a medical student, I'll be isolated from the undergrad population, but it's hard to ignore the plethora of smashed ice cream cones that cover campus, courtesy of a brilliant freshman class. I go to a beautiful public school, but the students treat the campus like it's their toilet. Grafitti is everywhere. They're not only taking the grounds for granted, but also the education they're receiving (which would be excellent if they would take full advantage). At the private, students couldn't take these things for granted; they (or their parents) pay to much for the privilege to be there.

These differences matter to me, and will affect how I choose any future schools I attend. I guess it's sort of like taxes. If you want to pay less money, then you'd better be OK with budget cuts and a certain level of inconvenience. If the bells and whistles matter to you, then it shouldn't be as difficult to shell out a larger percentage of your resources.

 

[frostynorthwind]

All of the people I have heard from have said that the price difference will ultimately be "little" like 50K or 25K. For me, it would be huge!!! Like 40K a year!!! Granted, I would like to go to Keck a whole hell of a lot more than UT Memphis.

My logic is (and call me crazy if you must), although the cost difference is great, I'll still be a doctor and living comfortably, even if half of my income for the first two or three years of practice is going to go to paying off loans.

Plainolerichie, it sounds like you have a tough choice to make. Just out of curiosity, have you looked at recent match lists for graduates matching in surgical specialties at BOTH Keck and UT? Although a lot of people poo poo match lists, they can be a great source of information. Take a look at not only the geographic distribution of matches for a given specialty but also the types of programs these schools match with. It doesn't mean much to say school X matched someone at Mass General, Johns Hopkins, U Mich, UNC, or a similarly competitive surgical residency in 2006. A smart kid with a 260+ Step I/II, AOA, and all honors grades can graduate from any obscure US MD-granting institution and still fare well in the match. The vast majority of us won't fall into this category, though, which is why it's safer to judge a school's program by considering larger groups of students over a few years.
It speaks highly of a program that can match 15-20 graduates (assuming a class size of 100) annually in the highly competitive surgical residencies... How does Keck's match list over the past few years fare against UT-Memphis?

Ultimately, from the student's perspective, what is the purpose of medical school? It's to train you-the student- to be the BEST resident you are capable of being. (It's the goal of a residency to train you to be the highly competent physician/surgeon you wish to be.) Do you think UT-Memphis will prepare you for a surgical residency as well as or better than Keck? If not, is Keck worth an additional $160,000 to you? Just know that in terms of clinical preparedness for residency, all schools are not equal in their capacities to prepare you to succeed in your years as a resident. Contacting current senior medical students or alumni from both schools might help you better judge the two programs.

While accreuing massive debt is an intimidating thought, you're only in medical school once, and assuming you are not interested in primary care, you shouldn't have a problem paying it back (eventually). It sounds like you have a strong desire to go to Keck and for this reason, I'd echo the advice given to me by fellow SDN posters, friends, and advisors: go where you want to be and think you will best succeed and don't look back. No regrets, eh?

Best of !

 

[almost_there]

My logic is (and call me crazy if you must), although the cost difference is great, I'll still be a doctor and living comfortably, even if half of my income for the first two or three years of practice is going to go to paying off loans.

Sounds like your heart is on USC. Go for it. You don't want to spend your years in med school (and after) wondering about what it would have been like to go and regretting your comfortable (safe) choice.

(Plus, it might motivate you to work harder and take advantage of the opportunities 🙂 )

!

 

[plainolerichie]

Sounds like your heart is on USC. Go for it. You don't want to spend your years in med school (and after) wondering about what it would have been like to go and regretting your comfortable (safe) choice.

(Plus, it might motivate you to work harder and take advantage of the opportunities 🙂 )

!

That's exactly the way I feel about it. I don't think I'll be poor after residency because I went to Keck. I think I'll work harder (worked for undergrad). I don't want to regret anything...but will I regret 160K in debt?

 

[MediMama23]

That's exactly the way I feel about it. I don't think I'll be poor after residency because I went to Keck. I think I'll work harder (worked for undergrad). I don't want to regret anything...but will I regret 160K in debt?

If you can think about it as "you get what you pay for," then you'll get a great education at Keck. And it's not like you won't be able to pay it off. Sure, it might take a little while longer, but the pros that I've seen listed outweigh the cons. Think about what you want out of your education, not about the cost. If both schools could offer you everything you wanted, then yeah, I would say go for the cheaper. But that's clearly not the case; these schools are very different and offer very different opportunities. I'd go for the school that could offer me the most possibilities. Your preferences may change drastically down the line; will the school you end up choosing be able to accomodate you in that regard?

 

[DNAroolez]

I am in a similar situation to yours. I just recently chose a private school in an area i asolutely love over my state school that offered me some money. I can't disagree more with the people that say med school is only 4 years, and you should tough it out to save some money. Med school is not only a considerable chunk of your time, but those years will undoubtably be 4 of the most grueling, hard working, and stressful times as well. You want to go somewhere you can be happy and comfortable. Yeah. 4 years isn't long in the scheme of your entire life, but I don't want to look back on my life and see medical school as a time i was wishing away for better things. I don't think decisions regarding personal happiness should be made based on money. (unless you are the type of person where money makes you happy- i'm not one of those people.) I would much rather have regrets over some money than over my happiness.

 

[SRK85]

Uhh, how about cost?

Yea thats the only difference. I meant the education is generally the same. Private schools have higher tution to cover costs and state gets the money from the government. Obviously but then again it depends on the university some privte colleges don't have the best income or classrooms like my college.

 

[gostudy]

Seriously, the decision is not that hard. Simply go where you want to. You are in medical school and you will eventually have a significant income. You will pay off any debt you have. When was the last time you saw an MD living paycheck to paycheck? Go where your heart desires. If money is an issue, then go to the cheaper school. Just do what will make you the most happy.

 

[rgarrig]

My 2 pence:

Go to the best school you got into. If, after some research and soul-searching, you cannot decide which of the two schools is "best" by non-financial criteria, go with the cheaper school.