OP could have been worded better
Last edited:
I have had a difficult time getting a straight answer on this. By what evidence do we say that the U.S. has a poor healthcare system?
I'm sure some part of this belief came from the WHO ranking system more than a decade ago that put the U.S. pretty far down the list of countries in terms of quality of care. However the WHO came under intense scrutiny for their methodology from this report and subsequently ceased publishing their rankings. They were essentially taking self-reported statistics from each country and comparing them directly without actually making sure the statistics were consistent (i.e. what age is a fetus considered "viable").
mynjms said:I've also heard the argument that we spend more on healthcare than every other country without any improvement in quality. What puzzles me about this is that we spend more on EVERYTHING than every other country: education, recreation, energy, construction, and everything in between.
It's virtually impossible to start a thread like this without an ensuing argument, but I would just like to know: what is your most compelling evidence for why the U.S. has poor healthcare?
Well your initial premise is begging the question. It's not so much a poor healthcare system as it is the poor health of the people that it's supposed to care for. Doctors in other countries aren't dealing with hordes of unhealthy, obese individuals who believe that freedom means they can do whatever they want despite the consequences and have the gall to demand that other people take responsibility for their actions.
Well your initial premise is begging the question. It's not so much a poor healthcare system as it is the poor health of the people that it's supposed to care for. Doctors in other countries aren't dealing with hordes of unhealthy, obese individuals who believe that freedom means they can do whatever they want despite the consequences and have the gall to demand that other people take responsibility for their actions.
The Healthcare systems of nations are almost impossible to compare.
serenade said:A nation that is heterogeneous, large and spread out, and multiple environmental and urban factors that affect vastly different populations cannot be compared to a nation that effectively stretches between two longitudinal plains and is in majority populated by one or two ethnic groups.
serenade said:The American health care system has to deal with a lot more issues than many other nations do.
serenade said:Thus this raises the cost of healthcare through means of transportation, having to buy equipment to stock hospitals across the country, etc.
I mean lets be honest, a small country like Singapore pays less per capita because it only buys enough specific machines per capita, as opposed to the US that needs ever hospital stocked for everything including most situations save for level 1 trauma events ( Which probably ever 3rd hospital is prepared for).
and malpractice lawyers who get in the way of the doctor-patient relationship and don't allow for medicine to be practiced as it had been in the past.
I know. Single malt, coming right up.
Aren't you a surgical resident? Or attending?
Odd, considering people have been doing it for decades.
Does that make it right?
Why not?
You've never been outside the country have you?
Does it?
yes.
Singapore spends less because it price controls the bejeezus out of everything. The rest of the above paragraph simply makes my brain run out through my eye sockets.
Either way, I'm off this week.
America has higher rates of obesity than other industrialized nations, but we have the lowest prevalence of smoking, and our rate of alcoholism is on the low side. In terms of cardiovascular disease we are pretty middle-of-the-pack.
So unfortunately you cannot just wave a little magic wand and pawn the whole thing off on fat, entitled patients. Our "system" really is deeply screwed up.
Singapore is a city state where the health can be centrally monitored as opposed to peripherally as we do in this country. Sorry, but there's no way getting around it.
serenade said:We waste a lot of money on the necessity of spreading things out to accommodate suburbia.
serendate said:This not to mention over 70% of Singapore is a single ethnic group with almost identical life styles.
The Healthcare systems of nations are almost impossible to compare. A nation that is heterogeneous, large and spread out, and multiple environmental and urban factors that affect vastly different populations cannot be compared to a nation that effectively stretches between two longitudinal plains and is in majority populated by one or two ethnic groups.
The American health care system has to deal with a lot more issues than many other nations do. Thus this raises the cost of healthcare through means of transportation, having to buy equipment to stock hospitals across the country, etc.
I mean lets be honest, a small country like Singapore pays less per capita because it only buys enough specific machines per capita, as opposed to the US that needs ever hospital stocked for everything including most situations save for level 1 trauma events ( Which probably ever 3rd hospital is prepared for).
This not to say that we don't have issues, because we do have them. But generally if the healthcare system wasn't as good as it was, then most Americans would be dead by 60.
Edit: Defensive Medicine is the key word in healthcare costs. For every dollar spent on medicine, another is spend on defensive medicine to protect doctors for lawyers.
Singapore is a city state where the health can be centrally monitored as opposed to peripherally as we do in this country. Sorry, but there's no way getting around it. We waste a lot of money on the necessity of spreading things out to accommodate suburbia. This not to mention over 70% of Singapore is a single ethnic group with almost identical life styles.
Not saying that our system doesn't need [significant] tweaking, but we certainly have some of the highest costs in the world in terms of managing chronic diseases as well as end-of-life healthcare.
It's poor for some people, but not others. It depends on who you are.
I have had a difficult time getting a straight answer on this. By what evidence do we say that the U.S. has a poor healthcare system?
I'm sure some part of this belief came from the WHO ranking system more than a decade ago that put the U.S. pretty far down the list of countries in terms of quality of care. However the WHO came under intense scrutiny for their methodology from this report and subsequently ceased publishing their rankings. They were essentially taking self-reported statistics from each country and comparing them directly without actually making sure the statistics were consistent (i.e. what age is a fetus considered "viable").
I've also heard the argument that we spend more on healthcare than every other country without any improvement in quality. What puzzles me about this is that we spend more on EVERYTHING than every other country: education, recreation, energy, construction, and everything in between.
It's virtually impossible to start a thread like this without an ensuing argument, but I would just like to know: what is your most compelling evidence for why the U.S. has poor healthcare?
An excerpt from a Kaiser study on U.S. healthcare costs:
"Rise in chronic diseases Longer life spans and greater prevalence of chronic illnesses has placed tremendous demands on the health care system. It is estimated that health care costs for chronic disease treatment account for over 75% of national health expenditures. [7] In particular, there has been tremendous focus on the rise in rates of overweight and obesity and their contribution to chronic illnesses and health care spending. The changing nature of illness has sparked a renewed interest in the possible role for prevention to help control costs."
Not saying that our system doesn't need [significant] tweaking, but we certainly have some of the highest costs in the world in terms of managing chronic diseases as well as end-of-life healthcare.
The WHO model was incredibly complicated. I don't blame them for not wanting to do it again.
We don't just spend more than any other country, we are a severe outlier.
And what do we get for all that spending? Coverage of the entire population? No. Portable electronic health records? No. Shortest wait time to see a PCP? No. Universal prenatal care? No. World-leading access to preventive care? No. World-leading management of chronic diseases? No.
Highest proportion spent on administrative overhead? Yes.
and why do you think that is? I think it is because of paper pushers, ie the big fat bureaucratic hand that sticks its fingers in between the doctor and patient.
Because Americans:
1. are fat
2. are lazy
3. expect the government to take care of them, but don't want the government to control them
4. are poorly educated
5. are fat
Relevant avatar?
I believe we are the one of the few industrialized countries in the world that you can declare bankruptcy due to a unforeseen hospital visit as an uninsured patient.
I believe we are the one of the few industrialized countries in the world that you can be uninsured
Cause or effect? The person who can't afford to visit the doctor lets his issues compound until he/she cannot stand his quality of life. Is that a cause of high healthcare spending or an effect of our policies that marginalizes access to healthcare for a huge swath of the population?
I have had a difficult time getting a straight answer on this. By what evidence do we say that the U.S. has a poor healthcare system?
I'm sure some part of this belief came from the WHO ranking system more than a decade ago that put the U.S. pretty far down the list of countries in terms of quality of care. However the WHO came under intense scrutiny for their methodology from this report and subsequently ceased publishing their rankings. They were essentially taking self-reported statistics from each country and comparing them directly without actually making sure the statistics were consistent (i.e. what age is a fetus considered "viable").
I've also heard the argument that we spend more on healthcare than every other country without any improvement in quality. What puzzles me about this is that we spend more on EVERYTHING than every other country: education, recreation, energy, construction, and everything in between.
It's virtually impossible to start a thread like this without an ensuing argument, but I would just like to know: what is your most compelling evidence for why the U.S. has poor healthcare?
I have had a difficult time getting a straight answer on this. By what evidence do we say that the U.S. has a poor healthcare system?
I'm sure some part of this belief came from the WHO ranking system more than a decade ago that put the U.S. pretty far down the list of countries in terms of quality of care. However the WHO came under intense scrutiny for their methodology from this report and subsequently ceased publishing their rankings. They were essentially taking self-reported statistics from each country and comparing them directly without actually making sure the statistics were consistent (i.e. what age is a fetus considered "viable").
I've also heard the argument that we spend more on healthcare than every other country without any improvement in quality. What puzzles me about this is that we spend more on EVERYTHING than every other country: education, recreation, energy, construction, and everything in between.
It's virtually impossible to start a thread like this without an ensuing argument, but I would just like to know: what is your most compelling evidence for why the U.S. has poor healthcare?
The evidence, I believe, is based mainly on the rising cost of healthcare. The quality of healthcare in the US is one of the best, if not the best.
We point fingers at every direction yet we still haven't come to any conclusion on how to fix the US healthcare system.
Firstly, let's count our blessings. In America, people very rarely die of childbirth or cholera. The lifespan of American's are comparatively longer than other countries (#40/198, not bad at all), children get vaccines and mother's get prenatal care. Yay to America.
I will make this as simple as possible:
Because America is a capitalist country, and everything is done for profit.
Does your company need more profits? Increase prices or decrease services. Those are the two simplest ways. Repeat across the whole healthcare system for several decades.
I could throw in a dozen more (lesser) reasons, but that one covers most of it.
I will make this as simple as possible:
Because America is a capitalist country, and everything is done for profit.
Does your company need more profits? Increase prices or decrease services. Those are the two simplest ways. Repeat across the whole healthcare system for several decades.
I could throw in a dozen more (lesser) reasons, but that one covers most of it.
Because in the other industrialized countries you are insured by your national healthcare system.
Because Americans:
1. are fat
2. are lazy
3. expect the government to take care of them, but don't want the government to control them
4. are poorly educated
5. are fat
I will make this as simple as possible:
Because America is a capitalist country, and everything is done for profit.
Now onto the reasons why I think the cost of healthcare is rising.
The US ranks 40th in life expectancy behind Cuba, Chile, Slovenia, and Costa Rica. Moreover, I argue with the contention that mother's get prenatal care. Mother's in the US are not entitled to prenatal or early infant care, this type of care is only available to those who are able to afford it or who are covered by their employer.
I had a few question about this. I though countries such as Cuba had care that is given by the government itself? Considering that Cuba is not wealth, why would they have the ability to give prenatal care for its citizens while the U.S. does not?
I had a few question about this. I though countries such as Cuba had care that is given by the government itself? Considering that Cuba is not wealth, why would they have the ability to give prenatal care for its citizens while the U.S. does not?
Cuba is not wealthy, but it spends almost all the money it has on its health care system, and it is a system that is both highly organized and centered around preventive medicine.