Why doesn't US News rank Dental Schools?

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komondor

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just wondering, since they have rankings for medical schools and all these other health professions schools:
Audiology
Clinical Psychology
Healthcare Management
Nursing
Nursing-Anesthesia
Nursing-Midwifery
Occupational Therapy
Pharmacy
Physical Therapy
Physician Assistant
Public Health
Rehabilitation Counseling
Social Work
Speech-Language Pathology
Veterinary Medicine
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i think dental schools are probably the most difficult to rank.

USNEWS ranks medical schools mostly based on their research strength (how much money do they bring in, grants, top professors, etc.). If USNEWS did this for dental schools it would be pretty clear: Harvard, UCLA, UCSF, Columbia, Upenn, UNC.

Clinical rank for med schools is another rank they use. Clincial abilities across med schools is pretty standardized and can be easily measured. However for dental schools it is a little more difficult. How do you measure it for dental schools? Should it be based on number of crowns done, number of patients seen, or what? Clinical abilities are next to impossible to standardize for dental schools and to test?

For the other schools, like public health, you can measure that easily based on just research dollars.

For schools like speech language pathology, you base the ranking solely on clincial skills, which are for those schools, easy to measure.

I'm apathetic as to whether USNews should rank dental schools. It is very biased towards private schools and other stupid stuff. Yet at the same time the general public should know that Roseman and USC are not good and that UNC, Buffalo are good.

Just my 2 cents.
 
komondor said:
just wondering, since they have rankings for medical schools and all these other health professions schools:
Audiology
Clinical Psychology
Healthcare Management
Nursing
Nursing-Anesthesia
Nursing-Midwifery
Occupational Therapy
Pharmacy
Physical Therapy
Physician Assistant
Public Health
Rehabilitation Counseling
Social Work
Speech-Language Pathology
Veterinary Medicine
Click to expand...

Because most dentists end up being general dentist.
How can you rank the school if most people just wanna be technicians.

General dentists are all same.
 
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jpark1800 said:
If USNEWS did this for dental schools it would be pretty clear: Harvard, UCLA, UCSF, Columbia, Upenn, UNC.
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funding from NIDCR for FY2011. while it's true that harvard and the other private institutions have a lot of in-house and private funding, your "list" is a pretty biased opinion based solely on name recognition gained from sdn and maybe your mom's gossip circle.

1
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AT ANN ARBOR
11,270,000
2
FORSYTH INSTITUTE
9,552,340
3
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO
7,724,193
4
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY
7,597,608
5
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES
6,521,160
6
UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH AT PITTSBURGH
6,260,761
 
UCLAzy said:
funding from NIDCR for FY2011. while it's true that harvard and the other private institutions have a lot of in-house and private funding, your "list" is a pretty biased opinion based solely on name recognition gained from sdn and maybe your mom's gossip circle.

1
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AT ANN ARBOR
11,270,000
2
FORSYTH INSTITUTE
9,552,340
3
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO
7,724,193
4
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY
7,597,608
5
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES
6,521,160
6
UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH AT PITTSBURGH
6,260,761
Click to expand...

Forsyth is not a dental school. NYU has an astronomical rate of tuition that would land it out of any rankings. It has a low admit GPA as well. I didn't include every dental school that came to my mind. If I did, I would've included Michigan. I didn't say that USNEWS based its research rank solely on the amount of funds brought in. For the other fiscal years (besides the just 1 fiscal year you looked at), Pittsburgh does not have as consistent performance as UNC or UCSF or UCLA. From 2005 to 2009, The University of Pennsylvania was the most highly funded and received $27.77million. So no, my list is pretty darn good and is not based on name recognition gained from sdn nor my mom's gossip circle.
 
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jpark, why do you think Roseman is not a good school? Honestly curious.
 
jpark1800 said:
Forsyth is not a dental school. NYU has an astronomical rate of tuition that would land it out of any rankings. It has a low admit GPA as well. I didn't include every dental school that came to my mind. If I did, I would've included Michigan. I didn't say that USNEWS based its research rank solely on the amount of funds brought in. For the other fiscal years (besides the just 1 fiscal year you looked at), Pittsburgh does not have as consistent performance as UNC or UCSF or UCLA. From 2005 to 2009, The University of Pennsylvania was the most highly funded and received $27.77million. So no, my list is pretty darn good and is not based on name recognition gained from sdn nor my mom's gossip circle.
Click to expand...

you know, going back even further..georgetown dental was lookin pretty good back in the 80's.

your list is, if anything, outdated. as i said before, seems like you took what you knew about those schools from the past and applied it to something current. that's why usnews comes out with a new list each year 😉

not only is it outdated, but barely anybody in dentistry cares about research. so the point is moot; hence why there are no rankings
 
Rank is just for Uber Weirdo pre meds who think that if they aren't at a top 20 they will learn medicine on the side of the freeway.

Consider it a good think we dont have rank I think it ruins a ton of pre med in their app cycle and just gets those top schools tons of apps(and money) to throw away.
 
UCLAzy said:
you know, going back even further..georgetown dental was lookin pretty good back in the 80's.

your list is, if anything, outdated. as i said before, seems like you took what you knew about those schools from the past and applied it to something current. that's why usnews comes out with a new list each year 😉

not only is it outdated, but barely anybody in dentistry cares about research. so the point is moot; hence why there are no rankings
Click to expand...

I agree with the part about dentistry and no one caring about research. I wonder if this will change with the recession and as job salaries go down for dentists?
 
komondor said:
just wondering, since they have rankings for medical schools and all these other health professions schools:
Audiology
Clinical Psychology
Healthcare Management
Nursing
Nursing-Anesthesia
Nursing-Midwifery
Occupational Therapy
Pharmacy
Physical Therapy
Physician Assistant
Public Health
Rehabilitation Counseling
Social Work
Speech-Language Pathology
Veterinary Medicine
Click to expand...

Can't help but wonder if dental schools mostly dont want to be ranked?
 
Luonghd said:
Wow, is this list accurate? Did not know buffalo had more seats tha nyu.
Click to expand...

A lot of this looks inaccurate and out of date. Buffalo has about 100 seats, not over 300.
 
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That is what I thought. How about the "smart" rank. Is that based on anything solid and accurate?
 
Luonghd said:
That is what I thought. How about the "smart" rank. Is that based on anything solid and accurate?
Click to expand...

No idea lol. This is the best I could find that has all the schools with some info on its stats.
 
LBJ6 said:
No idea lol. This is the best I could find that has all the schools with some info on its stats.
Click to expand...

I love the UI though,I wish someone supper imposes dr. Tooth ache's and ada's data on this website.
 
Their formula sucks. Just ask any reputable medical school faculty member or informed medical student and they'll all agree with how poor their measurement for medical school or dental school really is. I'm glad they don't rank dental schools. For some oddly ridiculous reason, they factor in undergraduate school ranking when they rank medical school! For that reason, one of the most prestigious and most selective medical school like Mayo Clinic, is not ranked as highly as it should be. The ranking has a lot to do with research funding which may or may not be arguably important as a performance measure for quality medical school education. Their ranking is highly subjective and rely on nationwide deans' opinions on each others' schools.
 
The best school is the one that best fits you. Do you want P/F or letter grades? Do you want a plethora and a variety of research opportunities? Do you want to go to a school and just become a general dentist with broad training or attend a school with the traditional specialty departments where difficult cases have to be siphoned off from you? Do you want to stay in-state and go to an affordable state school? Do you want to live in a city or in a more rural area?
 
Stacker said:
Their formula sucks. Just ask any reputable medical school faculty member or informed medical student and they'll all agree with how poor their measurement for medical school or dental school really is. I'm glad they don't rank dental schools. For some oddly ridiculous reason, they factor in undergraduate school ranking when they rank medical school! For that reason, one of the most prestigious and most selective medical school like Mayo Clinic, is not ranked as highly as it should be. The ranking has a lot to do with research funding which may or may not be arguably important as a performance measure for quality medical school education. Their ranking is highly subjective and rely on nationwide deans' opinions on each others' schools.
Click to expand...

Stacker said:
The best school is the one that best fits you. Do you want P/F or letter grades? Do you want a plethora and a variety of research opportunities? Do you want to go to a school and just become a general dentist with broad training or attend a school with the traditional specialty departments where difficult cases have to be siphoned off from you? Do you want to stay in-state and go to an affordable state school? Do you want to live in a city or in a more rural area?
Click to expand...

Both are true. 👍
 
Dental education is not like a medical education where it is a necessity to have a research publication in order to enter any specialty. A research intensive medical school is generally more prestigious and selective.
Dental schools vary very little from each other in terms of competitiveness as compared to the way medical schools vary from 3.5 GPA and 29 MCAT to 3.9 GPA and 37 MCAT.
Just as undergraduate name plays a role in our admission to dental school, medical school name plays just as much or more of a role when applying to residencies. In dentistry, the vast majority of us stop our formal education after dental school so there is little incentive in attending a prestigious school.
 
KittySquared said:
Highly recommend everyone to checkout this link for a side by side comparison when comparing schools.
Click to expand...

It's out-of-date and has errors. Some of the listed semester/quarterly tuition rates are incorrectly recorded as yearly rates.
 
It's fun playing around w the tabs though. It would be better if the stats were substituted with the numbers from ADEA guidebook. The tuition rank still holds true, more or less, I believe; although the numbers have all gone up a lot already.

I'm looking at tuition sheets from 3 schools right now lol and their numbers are all higher than the one on that site. BUT it's interesting regardless in doing side by side comparisons.

Oh, their "smart" rank ranks Marquette at the very bottom of the list. WTF LMAO
 
Last edited:
KittySquared said:
It's fun playing around w the tabs though. It would be better if the stats were substituted with the numbers from ADEA guidebook. The tuition rank still holds true, more or less, I believe; although the numbers have all gone up a lot already.

I'm looking at tuition sheets from 3 schools right now lol and their numbers are all higher than the one on that site. BUT it's interesting regardless in doing side by side comparisons.
Click to expand...

Still tuition alone makes up only a fraction of the fixed costs. For example at UCLA, the first academic year's tuition and fees should be 50,640. The listed tuition on that website says 14,471. Not only did they post only the summer tuition rate but they forgot to account for the fact that some schools hide costs through fees. Yet for UCSF, they chose to post the yearly tuition and fee costs. I can't imagine what else is inaccurate.
 
Stacker said:
The best school is the one that best fits you. Do you want P/F or letter grades? Do you want a plethora and a variety of research opportunities? Do you want to go to a school and just become a general dentist with broad training or attend a school with the traditional specialty departments where difficult cases have to be siphoned off from you? Do you want to stay in-state and go to an affordable state school? Do you want to live in a city or in a more rural area?
Click to expand...

THIS is why I am happy that dental schools aren't ranked. It's one less BS thing some immature applicants can look at. Instead, predents are forced to actually look at what matters to them and what the best-fit school for them is. That's what's important--which factors are most important to you and what do you want out of your education? Not some ranking.

Also, who the hell cares why dental schools aren't ranked?
 
KittySquared said:
It's fun playing around w the tabs though. It would be better if the stats were substituted with the numbers from ADEA guidebook. The tuition rank still holds true, more or less, I believe; although the numbers have all gone up a lot already.

I'm looking at tuition sheets from 3 schools right now lol and their numbers are all higher than the one on that site. BUT it's interesting regardless in doing side by side comparisons.

Oh, their "smart" rank ranks Marquette at the very bottom of the list. WTF LMAO
Click to expand...

Why else do you think I am going there? I would hate to go to too good of a school.
 
Titus Times said:
Rank is just for Uber Weirdo pre meds who think that if they aren't at a top 20 they will learn medicine on the side of the freeway.

Consider it a good think we dont have rank I think it ruins a ton of pre med in their app cycle and just gets those top schools tons of apps(and money) to throw away.
Click to expand...

:laugh:

Also, didn't all of the dental schools collectively decide to not participate in the rankings because they are obsolete and not necessarily relevant?
 
Optometry schools are not ranked either. There are 21 schools, and they all teach you to become an O.D.

Obviously, some people will always tell you their opinions on what the worst and the best are.....when all is said and done, and we have all studied hard, we'll all be O.D.'s no matter which school we went to.

By the way, I have never asked my dentist which school he or she has graduated from. So, as the general public, as long as you know your stuff, I'm satisfied.
 
There isn't a reason to rank dental schools because in the end, you'll be working for yourself. The income you bring in relies on your business prowess and can't be measured by the school you went to. Unless you're going into academia, then it's another story. I don't see the purpose of rankings for our profession. Like Loptometriste said, no patient will care where you went to, unless you plan to practice in a very affluent town where people know there is a dental school that's really good all the way on the other side of the country.

Patients care about 1) cost of procedures 2) friendliness 3) trustworthiness.
 
Dental schools boycotted rankings because the unique combo of hands on + didactic teaching was too difficult to measure school by school. Instead they said applicants should judge schools based on what they value most.
 
dantemac said:
Dental schools boycotted rankings because the unique combo of hands on + didactic teaching was too difficult to measure school by school. Instead they said applicants should judge schools based on what they value most.
Click to expand...

Really? How do you know this? If it's true, I really like that they did this. It allows people to really choose what program is right for them. 👍
 
Stacker said:
Their formula sucks. Just ask any reputable medical school faculty member or informed medical student and they'll all agree with how poor their measurement for medical school or dental school really is. I'm glad they don't rank dental schools. For some oddly ridiculous reason, they factor in undergraduate school ranking when they rank medical school! For that reason, one of the most prestigious and most selective medical school like Mayo Clinic, is not ranked as highly as it should be. The ranking has a lot to do with research funding which may or may not be arguably important as a performance measure for quality medical school education. Their ranking is highly subjective and rely on nationwide deans' opinions on each others' schools.
Click to expand...

I thought mayo clinic was only for interns\residents? Not a med school??

Sent from my Nexus 4 using SDN Mobile
 
That said... it has UNMC (nebraska) in DEAD LAST... which is just plain wrong. It is quite possibly a top 10 school they have one of the highest GPA/DAT scores in the nation, the numbers on that website are not the same numbers in the ADEA book or the numbers I got when I interviewed there. I'd love to go to the "62nd" ranked dental school on that website. And they have LECOM with a 16 AA DAT... surely it's not that low?
 
I am fairly new here, but long time reader. I am getting ready for the upcoming application cycle. I don't mind that they don't rank the schools, that's fine...However, how would go about finding out if school A is better at producing general dentists and school b is better at sending kids to residency.

These are some things I want to know. Obviously, I can guess that the Ivy's are the ones that are good at sending kids to residency, but what schools are good at teaching kids the real word of general dentistry?
 
Because all graduates of dental school receive the same title-Doctor.
 
gn4 said:
I am fairly new here, but long time reader. I am getting ready for the upcoming application cycle. I don't mind that they don't rank the schools, that's fine...However, how would go about finding out if school A is better at producing general dentists and school b is better at sending kids to residency.

These are some things I want to know. Obviously, I can guess that the Ivy's are the ones that are good at sending kids to residency, but what schools are good at teaching kids the real word of general dentistry?
Click to expand...

None of the schools fully prepare you for the real world. No one really knows which schools end up producing the better clinicians because that's largely dependent on the student. But you can look up what number of procedures are required at each school. Even then, that's not a good metric for determining which school generally produces the better clinicians.

You can categorize schools but I don't think it's fair to rank them.
 
UCSFx2017 said:
Still tuition alone makes up only a fraction of the fixed costs. For example at UCLA, the first academic year's tuition and fees should be 50,640. The listed tuition on that website says 14,471. Not only did they post only the summer tuition rate but they forgot to account for the fact that some schools hide costs through fees. Yet for UCSF, they chose to post the yearly tuition and fee costs. I can't imagine what else is inaccurate.
Click to expand...

No. UCLA's "tuition" for in-state and out-of-state is actually $14,864. I agree that $14,864 is not an accurate depiction of what someone will FULLY be paying (tuition and fees + that handy "Professional school fee" ($24,160)); however, tuition is $14,864 nonetheless.
 
JAWSSS said:
No. UCLA's "tuition" for in-state and out-of-state is actually $14,864. I agree that $14,864 is not an accurate depiction of what someone will FULLY be paying (tuition and fees + that handy "Professional school fee" ($24,160)); however, tuition is $14,864 nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Oh. If there were any website that tried to rank schools according to cost, the cost should be total fixed-cost (tuition + fees), not just tuition. :annoyed:
 
Every day someone asks in pre-med, what school is better? Anyone have DO school ranking list? Etc. They are all so obsessed with top schools. It is all about how YOU do in school. The school tries to sell people with board scores, school rankings, etc. It's all BS. I say goto the cheapest school in the area you like the best. At the end ofthe day you will still have an MD/DO/DDS/DMD or whatever you are going for. If you are going to a school just so that when you tell other people they are like "oh my, that is a great school!" Then your priorities are messed up. Other people outside of these professions have no idea what programs are good anyway. Sorry for the rant, it is just really annoying.
 
gmcguitar4 said:
Every day someone asks in pre-med, what school is better? Anyone have DO school ranking list? Etc. They are all so obsessed with top schools. It is all about how YOU do in school. The school tries to sell people with board scores, school rankings, etc. It's all BS. I say goto the cheapest school in the area you like the best. At the end ofthe day you will still have an MD/DO/DDS/DMD or whatever you are going for. If you are going to a school just so that when you tell other people they are like "oh my, that is a great school!" Then your priorities are messed up. Other people outside of these professions have no idea what programs are good anyway. Sorry for the rant, it is just really annoying.
Click to expand...

A lot of commodities are sold and advertised for the idea that it's associated with, not the quality of the product. Look at Nike and its advertisements. It's no longer an informative commercial. It just sells the idea of youth, health, and the feat of accomplishing great physical things. Or Apple which sells the idea of a progressive-minded youth. Subconsciously, when you watch these commercials, you think to yourself "If I buy Nike, I'm associating myself to the idea of accomplishing great physical feats or if I buy Apple, I'm a cool, hip individual." Although there are still people who buy and judge these material things for what they're really worth, plenty of people buy them just because of the idea that are associated to their brand through advertisements.

^Same thing goes with some schools and predents choosing them based on prestige alone.
 
I'm all about the brand names.

Gucci loupes and LV scrubs. They make me a great dentist.
 
komondor said:
just wondering, since they have rankings for medical schools and all these other health professions schools:
Audiology
Clinical Psychology
Healthcare Management
Nursing
Nursing-Anesthesia
Nursing-Midwifery
Occupational Therapy
Pharmacy
Physical Therapy
Physician Assistant
Public Health
Rehabilitation Counseling
Social Work
Speech-Language Pathology
Veterinary Medicine
Click to expand...

I can see ranking of law schools as something that makes sense....my understanding is, getting a law degree from a top 10 or even top 20 school will almost/always guarantee the newly graduate a six figure job at a top firm (so I've heard).... but the same can't be said from someone whom got their law degree from a less known institute

however, with dental schools.... that makes no sense, everyone graduates and gets into a job. Pretty much every general dentist is in the same paying (not "playing") fields (assuming zip codes are standardized across the board). I don't see how you can rank dental schools. Maybe you can rank which dental schools offer the most (say) clinic time doing specific (high demand) procedures? but even then, that doesn't equate to much ranking.
 
UCSFx2017 said:
None of the schools fully prepare you for the real world. No one really knows which schools end up producing the better clinicians because that's largely dependent on the student. But you can look up what number of procedures are required at each school. Even then, that's not a good metric for determining which school generally produces the better clinicians.

You can categorize schools but I don't think it's fair to rank them.
Click to expand...

ok. makes sense. Thanks for input. I was just curious. Basically, tuition cost should be a deciding factor for where I go.
 
dantemac said:
Dental schools boycotted rankings because the unique combo of hands on + didactic teaching was too difficult to measure school by school. Instead they said applicants should judge schools based on what they value most.
Click to expand...

Yes. They did this in like 1996. I was alive back then in the stone ages (pre-internet) and remember this. Some of you may not have been born yet. 😱
 
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