Why don't we use both sGPA and cGPA in LizzyM?

[notsobabydoc]

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Wondering this, since on MSAR all schools report both sGPA and cGPA. I understand for most people and schools, these two numbers are almost identical. But for those who have splits, wouldn't it make make more sense to assign weight to each of them and then put them into the LizzyM calculator?

 

[Kardio]

Wondering this, since on MSAR all schools report both sGPA and cGPA. I understand for most people and schools, these two numbers are almost identical. But for those who have splits, wouldn't it make make more sense to assign weight to each of them and then put them into the LizzyM calculator?

It’s just a heuristic. Your LizzyM could be 73 but it doesn’t matter if your B/B subscore is 118.

 

[LizzyM]

Back when I came up with the score, MSAR didn't have sGPA. Also, I created this so you could use publicly available data from school websites and didn't have to shell out more money to AAMC. I do believe that WARS is a more useful tool for making a school list. I don't use the score anymore myself.

 

[notsobabydoc]

Back when I came up with the score, MSAR didn't have sGPA. Also, I created this so you could use publicly available data from school websites and didn't have to shell out more money to AAMC. I do believe that WARS is a more useful tool for making a school list. I don't use the score anymore myself.

I see. I found WARS so subjective and also doesn't give you a better look at what the odds are at each individual school.

 

[Lucca]

I see. I found WARS so subjective and also doesn't give you a better look at what the odds are at each individual school.

admissions *is* subjective and nothing will effectively predict your odds at any individual school beyond very broad categories like "good", "some" or "very little"

 

[theKingLT]

Back when I came up with the score, MSAR didn't have sGPA. Also, I created this so you could use publicly available data from school websites and didn't have to shell out more money to AAMC. I do believe that WARS is a more useful tool for making a school list. I don't use the score anymore myself.

One day someone will write a book on the history of US med school admissions and in that book there will be a chapter about self-evaluation methods that will discuss in detail the merits of the LizzyM score =)

 

[907914]

admissions *is* subjective and nothing will effectively predict your odds at any individual school beyond very broad categories like "good", "some" or "very little"

Is there an honors category in there?

 

[blurb_123]

I see. I found WARS so subjective and also doesn't give you a better look at what the odds are at each individual school.

It's very subjective. As a general rule, I'd say SDN's WARS scores are inflated, especially relative to where/how many II are received. Almost everyone I see is an A/S and I have a hard time believing every is an "elite"/"near-elite" applicant.

 

[Engrailed]

It's very subjective. As a general rule, I'd say SDN's WARS scores are inflated, especially relative to where/how many II are received. Almost everyone I see is an A/S and I have a hard time believing every is an "elite"/"near-elite" applicant.

I'd also like to add that the LM and WARS fails to predict when the GPA and MCAT are very disparate.
Ex: 3.3 GPA and 520 MCAT and vice versa. (But as an aside, I think that having a much higher MCAT is better than vv)

 

[notsobabydoc]

It's very subjective. As a general rule, I'd say SDN's WARS scores are inflated, especially relative to where/how many II are received. Almost everyone I see is an A/S and I have a hard time believing every is an "elite"/"near-elite" applicant.

Self selection bias.

 

[Engrailed]

Self selection bias.

on sdn yes... haha

 

[blurb_123]

Self selection bias.

Perhaps, but even with self-selection, I'm very skeptical of all these S WARS scores. S implies you should be applying primarily to the T20 and not much else. Most applicants are not that much of a sure thing.

By inflation, I meant people are inflating their own, as opposed to where these SDN applicants fall on the applicant "bell curve" (obviously the whole pool is very right shifted).

 

[notsobabydoc]

Perhaps, but even with self-selection, I'm very skeptical of all these S WARS scores. S implies you should be applying primarily to the T20 and not much else. Most applicants are not that much of a sure thing.

By inflation, I meant people are inflating their own, as opposed to where these SDN applicants fall on the applicant "bell curve" (obviously the whole pool is very right shifted).

Yeah, possibly. But WARS is not constructed as a normally distributed statistic. Also, everyone freaks out when they start applying and wanting to make sure they get in somewhere, hence >90 applicants apply to 40 schools.

 

[blurb_123]

Yeah, possibly. But WARS is not constructed as a normally distributed statistic. Also, everyone freaks out when they start applying and wanting to make sure they get in somewhere, hence >90 applicants apply to 40 schools.

I think it's a valuable but subjective resource. I have a WARS in the A range (lower than most of my peers applying to the same schools) and have interviews at 2 T10 schools, more because I think I was very harsh/honest with the scoring system.

 

[Shadowkeep]

Perhaps, but even with self-selection, I'm very skeptical of all these S WARS scores. S implies you should be applying primarily to the T20 and not much else. Most applicants are not that much of a sure thing.

By inflation, I meant people are inflating their own, as opposed to where these SDN applicants fall on the applicant "bell curve" (obviously the whole pool is very right shifted).

WARS is more subjective than something like LizzyM score. I've noticed the same thing, with applicants putting their exact WARS scores in their bios, and it makes me wonder if people are the best judges of their own applications. That being said, I've met applicants on here whose accomplishments are absolutely bonkers.

 

[blurb_123]

WARS is more subjective than something like LizzyM score. I've noticed the same thing, with applicants putting their exact WARS scores in their bios, and it makes me wonder if people are the best judges of their own applications. That being said, I've met applicants on here whose accomplishments are absolutely bonkers.

WARS is designed so that the highest score in each subjective category is considered something special. Believe me when I say it's extremely rare to have a perfect score in more than 2 of research/clinical/volunteering/leadership&teaching.

 

[notsobabydoc]

I think it's a valuable but subjective resource. I have a WARS in the A range (lower than most of my peers applying to the same schools) and have interviews at 2 T10 schools, more because I think I was very harsh/honest with the scoring system.

Agreed. the system is very nebulous. You can definitely err on the side of undervaluing yourself and I am sure if that's what's been done by most people here, we will see a lot of A's than S's. the truth is that people like to use A's to construct their list and S's to assess their likelihood of getting in lol.

 

[notsobabydoc]

WARS is more subjective than something like LizzyM score. I've noticed the same thing, with applicants putting their exact WARS scores in their bios, and it makes me wonder if people are the best judges of their own applications. That being said, I've met applicants on here whose accomplishments are absolutely bonkers.

On the other hand, LM just doesn't capture much more than your stats So yeah, I think probably the two numbers together can paint a better picture of how strong or weak you are as an applicant. WARS is definitely not granular, which is not what it is designed for. In any case, the whole process is quite subjective other than the MCAT, which really can't be read in any subjective way. GPA's are quite a poor indicator of how good someone is academically because it can be adulterated, massaged, damaged, watered down, and etc. very easily. Who's to say how whether your clinical experience is top-notch or not? We are all pre-med and that's what we want to do. How much clinical experience is even possible to be gained as a pre-med??? pushing patients around and yada yada. By law, we can't really do much more than that!

 

[jfijiefjieji]

I think what's missing in WARS is how your experiences fit into your narrative. Those who are lacking in certain EC's but can write and talk really passionately about the ones that are meaningful to them will do very well I believe.

 

[LizzyM]

In some ways, the WARS punishes applicants who are not honest with themselves about their accomplishments. This may serve a valuable purpose by causing them to shoot too high and be taken down a peg before they re-apply.

 

[notsobabydoc]

In some ways, the WARS punishes applicants who are not honest with themselves about their accomplishments. This may serve a valuable purpose by causing them to shoot too high and be taken down a peg before they re-apply.

good point. Self-awareness is a virtue.