Why Focus on anything other than GPA?

[mitrieD]

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I'm just curious. If one of the main reasons of not getting accepted into dental school is a low GPA, then why do we even consider fitting in shadowing/EC's/studying for DAT's during the school year? Why don't we just focus on studying with the time that we have so our GPA is high? I'd rather take a year off after graduation to focus on that other stuff while graduating with a high GPA. Maybe I'm missing something?

Thanks

 

[bluesolic]

I'm just curious. If one of the main reasons of not getting accepted into dental school is a low GPA, then why do we even consider fitting in shadowing/EC's/studying for DAT's during the school year? Why don't we just focus on studying with the time that we have so our GPA is high? I'd rather take a year off after graduation to focus on that other stuff while graduating with a high GPA. Maybe I'm missing something?

Thanks

You are right.

You need to focus on having high GPA and that might cause you to have less time to study but the thing is that there are tons of people who get high GPA and good EC

That is why dental school is competitive.

 

[qnzbabi91]

AMEN! I couldn't agree more. I feel like some people cannot study all day like me so then EC would look better than browsing on facebook all day lol

 

[sacapuntas]

If you can't get a high GPA in undergrad unless you cut out all other activities, you are really going to struggle in professional school where we will be expected to take in so much more information. You also don't want to waste several years of your life only studying when you could actually get good grades and live a little.

 

[Zbtb7]

I'm just curious. If one of the main reasons of not getting accepted into dental school is a low GPA, then why do we even consider fitting in shadowing/EC's/studying for DAT's during the school year? Why don't we just focus on studying with the time that we have so our GPA is high? I'd rather take a year off after graduation to focus on that other stuff while graduating with a high GPA. Maybe I'm missing something?

Thanks

You can study for the DATs during the summer.

The shadowing and extracurriculars are best done during the academic year. Adcoms value these not only because they shape your character, but because it shows your time management skills. ECs aren't just something to check off-this is why the AADSAS asks for dates and weekly time spent in addition to total hours.

If all you did with your free time was study, you could easily get straight A's. Unfortunately, the moment you enter dental school, there's simply too much volume to grind through if you had to grind to succeed during college. Therefore, adcoms like applicants who can get good grades while having many other time commitments. This shows that they are superior students because they can do just as well as a bookworm while committing significantly less time to studying.

You could do all of your ECs during your gap year, but why take that chance? Adcoms aren't idiots. They'll realize that you had to grind to get that gpa and therefore, you're a less intelligent individual than the numbers suggest.

 

[OMF_HNS]

To be a great dentist requires great people skills. Hence ECs and involvement in the field of dentistry. Anyone can sit down and study and do well. But who will out the extra time in to go out and make a change and learn. A well rounded individual is favored over a bookworm with minimal ECs that lack interpersonal skills. Good luck as I'm sure all of here want to be a dentist one day and eventually we will alll get there. Just commit and remain focused.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[shulk]

How do any of us 'know' what adcoms like? We can only see trends in the data for acceptance and secondhand commentary from people who have already gone through the process. No adcom is the same and will interpret different things differently.

The best solution, in my opinion, is to aim for a very high gpa, high DAT, and to gain exposure to dentistry through shadowing/volunteering. Having interests in addition to your schoolwork you can coherently discuss is definitely a plus - this makes you a more personable individual and getting along with people is an important skill in dentistry. But there is no denying that as far as dental schools go, the GPA/DAT duo is the most important part of your application. So yes, we should be studying hard - but surely we can all find time to fit in 100 hours of shadowing sometime during our education (there are over 8500 hours in a year after all).

I disagree that 'anyone can sit down and study and do well' - it's ECs that anyone can do and continually add to their resumes. But if you already have a bad GPA.... well there's only so much that can be done with that.

 

[diasIItema]

You're right, maintaining a high GPA is of primary importance. However, if you can't even manage to maintain a competitive GPA while have some strong EC's, you will struggle in dental school. Getting in is not the hard part, unfortunately. There are several people in my class who had 4.00 GPA's in hard sciences coming out of reputable schools who are barely passing several classes.

Someone who earned a 3.5 with a very well-rounded resume looks better than someone who earned a 4.00 and has nothing else to offer, I promise you that.

 

[Sal427]

you're right, maintaining a high gpa is of primary importance. However, if you can't even manage to maintain a competitive gpa while have some strong ec's, you will struggle in dental school. Getting in is not the hard part, unfortunately. There are several people in my class who had 4.00 gpa's in hard sciences coming out of reputable schools who are barely passing several classes.

Someone who earned a 3.5 with a very well-rounded resume looks better than someone who earned a 4.00 and has nothing else to offer, i promise you that.

+1

 

[alucidinterval]

Because then if you don't pull the 4.0 like you planned, you're stuck with nothing to show that you were doing something other than studying. And if you study all day everyday through undergrad chances are you won't have the greatest communications skills, which will be reflective in your interview. Plus adcoms want to see that you're actually interested in dentistry, which you probably won't be able to show without shadowing.

 

[joshwake]

because I have a 3.3 gpa and 3.0 sgpa and a 19 on the dat and 4 pre december interviews. Go look at the "no interviews" thread. There are many in there with 3.7+ and 21+ on the DAT with no interviews.

That being said, gpa and dat is still the main stat.

 

[mitrieD]

because I have a 3.3 gpa and 3.0 sgpa and a 19 on the dat and 4 pre december interviews. Go look at the "no interviews" thread. There are many in there with 3.7+ and 21+ on the DAT with no interviews.

That being said, gpa and dat is still the main stat.

That's an awesome point that I'm going to remember. Thanks

Congrats on your interviews! Do you mind posting your EC stats so I can get an idea of where I'm heading based on what I have so far?

 

[gumdrop16]

because I have a 3.3 gpa and 3.0 sgpa and a 19 on the dat and 4 pre december interviews. Go look at the "no interviews" thread. There are many in there with 3.7+ and 21+ on the DAT with no interviews.

That being said, gpa and dat is still the main stat.

r you urm...................

 

[qnzbabi91]

Because then if you don't pull the 4.0 like you planned, you're stuck with nothing to show that you were doing something other than studying. And if you study all day everyday through undergrad chances are you won't have the greatest communications skills, which will be reflective in your interview. Plus adcoms want to see that you're actually interested in dentistry, which you probably won't be able to show without shadowing.

In order to attain a 4.0 you most likely have to have good enough communication skills to approach your professors to smooze a bit lol just saying 😀

 

[diasIItema]

In order to attain a 4.0 you most likely have to have good enough communication skills to approach your professors to smooze a bit lol just saying 😀

Most people with 4.00's never need to talk to their professors. It's the irony in trying to get letters of rec.

 

[joshwake]

That's an awesome point that I'm going to remember. Thanks

Congrats on your interviews! Do you mind posting your EC stats so I can get an idea of where I'm heading based on what I have so far?

I got an MPH through ATSU and I did very well (3.8) so that definetly helps. I have worked 3+ years in an infectious disease lab and I get to participate in research on a monthly basis. I have thousands of hours of service (served an LDS mission in Brazil), most recently working with a dental sealant program helping with grant writing and marketing.

certainly everyone should focus mainly on GPA and DAT, but most dental schools are searching for a well rounded applicant.

 

[Dentalkid434]

Truthfully, it is the number on paper at seems to appeal to people more than the well-roundedness of a candidate. I am learning it the hard way now. This is unfortunate, but the reality of the situation. I have an oGPA of 3.93 and AA of 20 and my extracurriculars are not even looked out since those numbers do not seem to attract the admissions committees at the dental schools. However, although I possess a relatively competitive GPA and have a laundry list of extracurriculars (leadership roles, shadowing, research, community service....etc), all that diligence and hard work is meaningless due to the 18 I received on the reading section of the DAT. My out of classroom involvement are not even looked upon if my scores are dismissed.

Bottom line: you could have performed research at one of the most prestigious research institutions in the country, published papers, served as a mentor, volunteered at disability centers, tutored for free, shadowed countless hours, presented before professors that are masters of their discipline, be completely and wholeheartedly committed to pursuing a DDS/DMD degree, spent countless hours reading your textbook and still be overlooked.

Honestly, if you ask me, I remember both: the person with a 3.2 but was outgoing, offered to help, and committed to making a difference, and the person who maintained a 4.0, is unapproachable and chose not to share their notes when you missed class after you spent hours studying with them for the previous exam (in an attempt to weed their competition)....Yet, I view each of them under a very different light: I admire the former and look negatively upon the ladder.

Then again, there are those who maintain a healthy balance between the "numbers" and extracurriculars and are just wonderful people.

 

[UCSFx2017]

If your only responsibility is to be a student, getting a high GPA without ECs is not impressive for an undergraduate student, at least for me. You should be able to handle a "tough" undergraduate level course load while being involved with other activities. Undergrad. courses are not as difficult as graduate dental school course loads and so it is very doable to be both well-rounded and successful academically as an undergrad. For me, it's too easy to do well in my undergrad. without research and volunteering. Juggling more responsibilities than just schooling forces good time-management skills that are essential in dental school.

 

[dentalWorks]

I'm just curious. If one of the main reasons of not getting accepted into dental school is a low GPA, then why do we even consider fitting in shadowing/EC's/studying for DAT's during the school year? Why don't we just focus on studying with the time that we have so our GPA is high? I'd rather take a year off after graduation to focus on that other stuff while graduating with a high GPA. Maybe I'm missing something?

Thanks

thats the problem with many pre-professional prospects.... They lack in the heavy areas (GPA / DAT , etc) so they try to compensate with easy works such as a billion hours shadowing and volunteering.

Lets get something straight, Everyone can rack up hours upon hours of shadowing and volunteering, only select, motivated, and privileged few can land high GPAs and DATs.... who do you think the adcoms will more likely interview/accept?

 

[Zbtb7]

thats the problem with many pre-professional prospects.... They lack in the heavy areas (GPA / DAT , etc) so they try to compensate with easy works such as a billion hours shadowing and volunteering.

Lets get something straight, Everyone can rack up hours upon hours of shadowing and volunteering, only select, motivated, and privileged few can land high GPAs and DATs.... who do you think the adcoms will more likely interview/accept?

The adcoms are going to interview/accept the people with high gpas and DATs and with a billion hours of shadowing and volunteering. 😀 You're right though. You need competitive stats to even get your ECs looked at (although I've known ppl with terrible stats/excellent ECs that got into schools). However, ECs are frosting and not having sufficient amounts can also get an app out-competed by competitors with equal stats

Seriously though, I thought getting a high gpa and DAT was easier than doing my ECs. I've spent more than twice the amount of hours I'd spent studying doing research, shadowing, and volunteering. Studying was interesting and I got to chillax on a couch or lie down on my belly. ECs take a lot of time and are often tedious.

 

[CMistry]

Lets get something straight, Everyone can rack up hours upon hours of shadowing and volunteering, only select, motivated, and privileged few can land high GPAs and DATs.... who do you think the adcoms will more likely interview/accept?

Agreed. Dental school is a lot tougher (academically speaking) than college and they want to make sure you can hack it. The best and easiest way for them to do that is to look at your grades.

 

[toastybread]

If you see extra currics and shadowing hours as just requirements to fill, then yeah go ahead and focus on GPA. But that sounds kinda anti-social and unrealistic to me.

Sure you'll get a 4.0 GPA but there are people out there who can get 3.8's and 3.9's too while having a life doing other things. Guess who comes out on top?

Wouldn't you want to pride yourself on being well-rounded? What kind of dentist do you wanna be, one that's involved in the community or one that stays holed up in his/her practice all day?

 

[coolslugs]

I'm just curious. If one of the main reasons of not getting accepted into dental school is a low GPA, then why do we even consider fitting in shadowing/EC's/studying for DAT's during the school year? Why don't we just focus on studying with the time that we have so our GPA is high? I'd rather take a year off after graduation to focus on that other stuff while graduating with a high GPA. Maybe I'm missing something?

Thanks

Here is a scenario for you...for a school with 100 seats, they will probably interview ~500 out of 4000 applications. A high GPA and reasonable DAT score will get you an interview. ECs and whatever that makes you well rounded will then get you that acceptance. There are plenty of people in dental school that have both. As for ECs...remember it's not how many hours you did that counts, but the depth and experiences that makes you more interesting.

 

[ggj]

You've already gotten a thousand responses to this post, but I agree with everyone.

The main thing to remember is that a high GPA doesn't mean anything. You can cheat your way to a good GPA. I know plenty of people who cheated on exams and homework during my undergraduate years. So your 4.0 is really not indicative of anything if it's fake! (Not saying yours is, but giving you a worst case scenario)

You can't fake work experience or shadowing or volunteering (unless you know a supervisor), and unless you're a genius hacker, it's unlikely that you'll be able to cheat on the DATs.

They're just trying to get a complete picture of who you are before opening their doors to you, and humans have so many dimensions that an analysis of any reasonable magnitude just *needs* to go beyond your numbers. If that means taking a year off before dental school and doing what you please to stand out or to live life or whatever else, then go for it. But there are several 4.0's that apply to Harvard and have no personality. Conversely there are 2.0's that have an intense passion for patient care and research. There is no absolute formula other than being yourself!

 

[Sal427]

I have a lower DAT (18) and a relatively good gpa (3.73) but I think my ECs is what gave me an extra advantage and got me interviews. Without my good ECs I doubt I would have gotten any interviews.

 

[thewobblytooth]

Your ECs will speak volumes about your personality and allow the adcoms differentiate between you and another candidate. Just remember, they get thousands of applications a year and they all have GPAs that are comparable to each other. Whether or not your GPA is higher or lower than someone else may not matter in the grand scheme of things if your ECs really stand out. Imagine a 3.5GPA kid with no ECs and a 3.5GPA kid with ECs. They have one up on it. Also, they will ask you about these experiences during interviews and it's best to have something to talk about other than school.

 

[shulk]

You've already gotten a thousand responses to this post, but I agree with everyone.

The main thing to remember is that a high GPA doesn't mean anything. You can cheat your way to a good GPA. I know plenty of people who cheated on exams and homework during my undergraduate years. So your 4.0 is really not indicative of anything if it's fake! (Not saying yours is, but giving you a worst case scenario)

You can't fake work experience or shadowing or volunteering (unless you know a supervisor), and unless you're a genius hacker, it's unlikely that you'll be able to cheat on the DATs.

They're just trying to get a complete picture of who you are before opening their doors to you, and humans have so many dimensions that an analysis of any reasonable magnitude just *needs* to go beyond your numbers. If that means taking a year off before dental school and doing what you please to stand out or to live life or whatever else, then go for it. But there are several 4.0's that apply to Harvard and have no personality. Conversely there are 2.0's that have an intense passion for patient care and research. There is no absolute formula other than being yourself!

A high GPA definitely means something. I for one would rather have a high GPA/DAT and so-so ECs rather than so-so GPA and great ECs. That 2.0 with an intense passion you mentioned isn't going to be attending any dental school. And how exactly do you know that there are 'several 4.0s that apply to Harvard and have no personality'? Sounds like a stereotype to me.

One could 'fake' ECs in a sense by simply showing up and not caring or making them any kind of worthwhile experience. ECs are worthless if you make nothing of them - just physically having your body in another building other than your house isn't going to make you a better dentist in the long run - it's quality experiences that will do that.

 

[ggj]

A high GPA definitely means something. I for one would rather have a high GPA/DAT and so-so ECs rather than so-so GPA and great ECs. That 2.0 with an intense passion you mentioned isn't going to be attending any dental school. And how exactly do you know that there are 'several 4.0s that apply to Harvard and have no personality'? Sounds like a stereotype to me.

One could 'fake' ECs in a sense by simply showing up and not caring or making them any kind of worthwhile experience. ECs are worthless if you make nothing of them - just physically having your body in another building other than your house isn't going to make you a better dentist in the long run - it's quality experiences that will do that.

Check Harvard's website, honey. If you're interested in being a faceless 4.0 then go for it. It's proven that being involved in things outside of the classroom make you a more well-rounded applicant. If you have a 4.0 and your communication skills are ****, then no one is going to look twice at you. That's the entire point of the interview. Otherwise only high GPAs would get in. Not so difficult a concept to grasp frankly. And 2.0 was a hyperbole used to demonstrate a point. Get over it.

 

[deleted487471]

Check Harvard's website, honey. If you're interested in being a faceless 4.0 then go for it. It's proven that being involved in things outside of the classroom make you a more well-rounded applicant. If you have a 4.0 and your communication skills are ****, then no one is going to look twice at you. That's the entire point of the interview. Otherwise only high GPAs would get in. Not so difficult a concept to grasp frankly. And 2.0 was a hyperbole used to demonstrate a point. Get over it.

Nobody will look at a 2.0 without communication skills either (or even with them, for that matter). I see what you're saying - which is that EC's improve the application and show you have more than academic talent - and I agree with that. But EC's do little more than show you have interests and can balance your schedule. Many people grind them out for the express purpose of improving their application, and have no real interest in them. It's best to be well-rounded, but let's face it, a 4.0 with poor communication skills still has a better shot than a 2.9 with great EC's. By the way, poor EC's != no personality.

 

[shulk]

Check Harvard's website, honey. If you're interested in being a faceless 4.0 then go for it. It's proven that being involved in things outside of the classroom make you a more well-rounded applicant. If you have a 4.0 and your communication skills are ****, then no one is going to look twice at you. That's the entire point of the interview. Otherwise only high GPAs would get in. Not so difficult a concept to grasp frankly. And 2.0 was a hyperbole used to demonstrate a point. Get over it.

Sorry if I offended you, but I just don't think it's right to say that a 4.0 GPA means nothing. Not that I have one, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at someone who did and just make assumptions about their personality. I still think that your GPA/DAT is more important than your ECs, but I agree that having zero ECs and bad personal skills is a definitely a big detriment to your application. Ultimately, I think people should be more concerned about their GPA since it is much much harder to 'fix' than a lack of ECs.

 

[mitrieD]

Thanks for the replys guys. I'm not going to apply without any EC's. I was just typing off-the-thought because I notice that dental schools won't even look at you if you don't have numbers. Also, in my opinion, its a lot easier to improve an application thats lacking EC's than raising GPA/DAT.

Whats really interesting to me are people who get in without high above average numbers but with great EC's. Thats really inspiring and uplifting for me.

 

[ccm5166]

Thanks for the replys guys. I'm not going to apply without any EC's. I was just typing off-the-thought because I notice that dental schools won't even look at you if you don't have numbers. Also, in my opinion, its a lot easier to improve an application thats lacking EC's than raising GPA/DAT.

Whats really interesting to me are people who get in without high above average numbers but with great EC's. Thats really inspiring and uplifting for me.

What are considered as Great EC's?

 

[Zbtb7]

What are considered as Great EC's?

I know someone who had a poor gpa (low 3s but just above the stat screens) and average shadowing hours (~100). She got into multiple schools because she worked as a CNA (thousands of hours) to support herself throughout college.

 

[UCSFx2017]

What are considered as Great EC's?

Anything where you showed long-term dedication. It's a chance to show who you are, what you care about, and what your interests are. It's a good way to paint a picture of yourself as a unique individual who can relate broadly to other people and to show them that you're not a robot.
Good EC's that are academically related or generic are authorship and publication in peer-reviewed research journals, club leader, volunteering, work, sports, and hobbies.

 

[Dentalkid434]

I have a lower DAT (18) and a relatively good gpa (3.73) but I think my ECs is what gave me an extra advantage and got me interviews. Without my good ECs I doubt I would have gotten any interviews.

Congratulations on the invites!! Where are they and are they pre or post December?

 

[Trilby]

Congratulations on the invites!! Where are they and are they pre or post December?

Sal427 is URM. Caveat emptor.

 

[Sal427]

Sal427 is URM. Caveat emptor.

Is not*

 

[Trilby]

Is not*

Oops. Sorry. This threw me off.

Hey, does anyone have any recent stats on accepted URM gpa/DAT?

I took another look at your post history and it makes more sense. BU, NYU, and UMDNJ are all schools that weigh ECs heavily relative to stats.

 

[Sal427]

Oops. Sorry. This threw me off.



I took another look at your post history and it makes more sense. BU, NYU, and UMDNJ are all schools that weigh ECs heavily relative to stats.

Yup I was curious about that because I got into a convo with someone about URM stats on the under 20 AA thread and I wanted to see some percentages on this.

 

[Sal427]

Congratulations on the invites!! Where are they and are they pre or post December?

I already had NYU, Temple, UMDNJ, and BU. In November I have Tufts and I declined Meharry for travel reasons. I went to NYU and volunteered in their clinic for two years and I've done a lot of volunteering with nonprofits. I'm really interested in working with kids and adults with special needs.