Why have arbitrary GPA/MCAT cutoffs?

[TexasTriathlete]

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So I have been rejected from AZCOM and CCOM for not meeting the 2.75 GPA cutoff, despite a post-bac GPA of over 3.4 (80 hours), and an overall science GPA of about 3.3. Not stellar numbers, but I also got a 33 on the MCAT, which is well above their averages.

Now I can accept the fact that I have to play by the rules of each school, but what is the point of a 2.75 GPA cutoff? If it was like 3.5 or something, I could understand. So they just want people who really perform well in class or whatever.

But 2.75? That's mediocre or worse, and IMO, anyone with that kind of GPA who is actually applying to med school probably has a lot more going on than you can tell just by looking at the GPA. And I think KCOM has a 2.5 cutoff. UNECOM is 2.7. They zapped me, and I am appealing.

And some of the MCAT cutoffs are even weirder. UNECOM requires an 18. Huh? Who even applies to med school with less than that? Anyone who gets that low is probably taking the test again.

What, exactly, are they trying to do with these low, but arbitrary numbers? Just reduce workload for their admissions people? I don't get it.

 

[Terpskins99]

What, exactly, are they trying to do with these low, but arbitrary numbers? Just reduce workload for their admissions people?

In a word: yes.

And why shouldn't they? These schools probably came up with GPA cutoffs based upon statistical evaluation of their applicant pool (and perhaps even retrospective studies on their past medical students' performance). They probably found out that students with at least a 2.75 undergrad gpa reached a minimum acceptable passing rate on boards/graduation.

You're also making a strange assumption that programs weigh MCAT's over undergraduate performance... when its been well documented that OSTEOPATHIC programs have always been the opposite (which I agree with).

Btw, if you knew they had a 2.75 GPA cutoff, then why did you bother applying?

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Because a lot of schools have overlooked their cutoffs for me, because of how unusual my profile is. It was worth a shot.

I have also talked to a lot of admissions people. I'm not firing blindly here. I've done my homework.

 

[nlax30]

I'd definitely talk with them and see if there's anyway they can look at your entire file. I could definitely see them just throwing down your app after seeing the 2.75 overall GPA without looking further into it and seeing all the post-bacc classes and that GPA.

 

[Meatwad]

Well, you condemned the 2.75 cut-off but not the 18 one; if anything, you've got to admit they are both either equally very arbitrary or neither are arbitrary at all. I'd go with both are just arbitrary and stupid, since most people (you excluded) wouldn't bother applying with sub-2.9-or-so GPAs or sub-24 MCAT scores. The only reason they do it is to decrease volume of applications they actually look over, I guess. They do get a hell of a lot of applications. It's funny, though, because when someone like you, who actually has proved themselves beyond what their numbers would tell, you end up appealing and giving them a bigger headache than if they had just not implemented a stupid cutoff to begin with

 

[belichek]

well my mcat sucked(23Q) and my GPA isnt that stellar either (3.28cum with a 3.41 BCPM) and i have already gotten 4 interviews so i guess nothing is impossible.

 

[Terpskins99]

Because a lot of schools have overlooked their cutoffs for me, because of how unusual my profile is. It was worth a shot.

I have also talked to a lot of admissions people. I'm not firing blindly here. I've done my homework.

You talked to "a lot of admissions people". Clearly you did not speak to their admissions people.

I remember having my VCOM application rejected (after I had already submitted my non-refundable secondary check, of course) simply because I didn't have a letter of recommendation from a DO. Nevermind that my other letters consisted of recommendations from an NCI principle investigator, a university department chair of cell biology, the pediatrics residency director for the US Navy, the pediatric endocrinology fellow director for the US Army, not to mention rec letters from every 300 and 400 level science course I took as an undergrad.

Oh, and I also called up VCOM's admissions department ahead of time, and the secretary told me to go ahead and submit my application since they'd certainly waive the DO rec letter requirement for me.

And sure enough... right after the check was cashed, I received a letter in the mail telling me that they could not process my application, but how I would be an excellent candidate for the following year so long as I got that pointless rec somehow. To which I believe I replied with, "screw that" and just went someplace else.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

You are actually wrong. I did talk with someone from AZCOM's admissions office, and she told me that I would not be automatically eliminated. That is part of why I'm a little aggrivated with their rule.

Like I said... A higher cutoff, say 3.5, gives a picture of what the school may be looking for. But 2.75? So they're looking for people who make B's and C's? If you're going to go that low, why have a cutoff? Just look at each application closely.

I don't care as much about the MCAT cutoff, because a crappy MCAT score can be fixed in one day. If you blow it, just get better and re-take it.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Why? Because they've had people apply with gpa's and mcat's that low. SDN is NOT representative of the application pool for SDN, you know this I'm sure. It sucks that they threw you out but yes, appeal to them and see what they say. Also, usually that gpa cut-off is cum to include any other work you might have done. If you only have a 2.7 cum after that, then yes they might be concerned of WHY you did so poorly. I'm sure you addressed this in your PS but remember the volume of apps some of these schools get.

with the appeal.

 

[NjD00]

They have cutoffs to simply tell the applicant that they are not competitive once a score goes too low. For example, a GPA below 2.75 and/or MCAT below 18 and you have pretty much no chance of getting in. There will always be PLENTY of applicants above a 3.0 with a decent MCAT that will outcompete the person that is too low.
This "cut-off" is simply there to tell the thousands of people across the country with 16 MCATs and 2.65 GPAs that they should simply save their money and look elsewhere. Can you imagine what would happen if no schools listed a cutoff? Everyone and their brother could think they have a shot, resulting in 15000 applications for a school to process.

This is in general; your situation is a little different. Granted, not many people smart enough to get a 33 MCAT gets a 2.75 GPA or lower, and I would think the schools would give you a thorough look. Then again, they might wonder WHY a smart person underachieved in college...

 

[TexasTriathlete]

My GPA is still only 2.68 because I originally graduated with a 2.2, and 80 hours of science at a 3.41 clip raises my 2.2 to a 2.68.

My struggles early on are explained in my personal statement, but I don't really dwell on it. There were things beyond my control, but I still could have done a lot better.then again, medical school was the furthest thing from my mind.

 

[nlax30]

Good luck with talking with 'em though! After my first two years of undergrad my GPA was around a 2.3 or so and it's amazing at how easy it is for a GPA to drop, and then how hard it seems to be to bring it up.

 

[diggintheDOs]

Good luck with talking with 'em though! After my first two years of undergrad my GPA was around a 2.3 or so and it's amazing at how easy it is for a GPA to drop, and then how hard it seems to be to bring it up.

hey, i've only been on this a few times and i just started recently, so forgive me for asking questions you've probably dealt with before...

i see you're going to lecom, which is awesome... congrats! i am planning to apply there and was just wondering how badly my 2.9 science gpa (3.3 overall) is going to hurt me. i have a 25 mcat, and i'm planning to retake. any insight you can offer would be great.

 

[nlax30]

hey, i've only been on this a few times and i just started recently, so forgive me for asking questions you've probably dealt with before...

i see you're going to lecom, which is awesome... congrats! i am planning to apply there and was just wondering how badly my 2.9 science gpa (3.3 overall) is going to hurt me. i have a 25 mcat, and i'm planning to retake. any insight you can offer would be great.

Eh, will really depend on the other parts of you app. With the 2.9 science GPA does that include any class retakes? Remember that AACOMAS will replace a retaken course with the new (and hopefully better) grade. At least I'm assuming it still does this.

I guess if you're applying for the upcoming '09 cycle then there really isn't much you can do about the GPA at this point besides just seeing how it plays out.

Since you are retaking the MCAT do whatever you can do really well on it. My GPA wasn't all that much higher than yours (~3.1-3.4) but luckily I think my MCAT helped make up for some of it.

So make sure you are prepared for the MCAT, do well on it, and assuming the rest of your application is strong (Rec letters, extracurriculars/experience, etc...) then you may have a decent shot.

 

[EEL08]

I think there should be a smilie for digging old threads up from the grave.

 

[nlax30]

I think there should be a smilie for digging old threads up from the grave.

And this was only '07, always fun to see something like a 3 year old thread get revived randomly.

 

[spazzz]

I think we all need to hear this.

ANYTHING LESS OF A 3.0 WILL ALWAYS BE A STIGMA.

thank you.

 

[butiwuvu]

But 2.75? That's mediocre or worse, and IMO, anyone with that kind of GPA who is actually applying to med school probably has a lot more going on than you can tell just by looking at the GPA.

I doubt it. There are so many "dreamers" in Premed Land that if the schools had to take a seriously good look at every application with a sub-2.75 GPA, they would simply be flushing time down the toilet.

Think about it. Great med applicants with a GPA lower than 2.75 are few and far between. Sorry - I'm sure there are a few good'uns out there (you included), but most will be accompanied with a MCAT in the high teens or low twenties. And if the schools start giving one person a break or a right to appeal, then everybody will be writing letters trying to get around the cutoff.

Schools have a limited amount of time to review apps. They've either got to impose these "arbitrary" cutoffs (which actually tend to have a legitimate basis, despite what you might think), or they've got to increase their application fees to pay for additional staff.

File this thread under "Cautionary Tales - slacking off in undergrad".

 

[EEL08]

And this was only '07, always fun to see something like a 3 year old thread get revived randomly.

😆 I love it! I think I may check back when I'm a resident or something and bump my own threads.

 

[Thantis]

[This post has been removed by the Church of Scientology.]

 

[Doctor]

Remember that AACOMAS will replace a retaken course with the new (and hopefully better) grade. At least I'm assuming it still does this.

I thought this was the best thing ever, then I looked at the 3 science courses I got less than an A in (and I got C, C+, B- in them so they are significant down-weights). Guess what? All 3 of them aren't even offered anymore at the university I graduated from! And they weren't replaced by any similar courses either.

Do you think if I found similar courses at another university, I could replace the grades that way? Also, one of them was chemistry for non-science majors... could I replace this one with the grade from my "real" Intro Chemistry course? The other two were Marine Biology and Natural Resources, both intro type courses.

 

[nlax30]

I thought this was the best thing ever, then I looked at the 3 science courses I got less than an A in (and I got C, C+, B- in them so they are significant down-weights). Guess what? All 3 of them aren't even offered anymore at the university I graduated from! And they weren't replaced by any similar courses either.

Do you think if I found similar courses at another university, I could replace the grades that way? Also, one of them was chemistry for non-science majors... could I replace this one with the grade from my "real" Intro Chemistry course? The other two were Marine Biology and Natural Resources, both intro type courses.

Hmmm... Just a guess here but I'd probably say it would be hard to get those replaced with a different class. I honestly don't know if AACOMAS has some way to deal with situations such as that, you'd have to call them and see. My gut just says that you'll probably be out of luck. But if those 2C's and B are the only sciences that are less than an A you should be in pretty good shape, right? Not sure what year you are in but if it's still early in your college career and you don't have a lot of credits done yet then yeah, they can have a large impact, but in the end people have had much worse.

 

[Doctor]

Yeah... it'll work out I guess. The bigger concern I suppose is my overall GPA rather than science GPA. But I wanted to strive for a "retake" 4.0 in science. 😳 Luckily, all the non-science courses I had below a B and never retook (F, D+, D+, C-) are still offered.

I'm actually already graduated (long time ago) and going back to school. My transcript is so messed up that if I can manage to get high grades (say straight A-'s) in the pre-reqs, that could leave me with a 3.50 Science and 3.44 Overall for AACOMAS thanks to forgiveness but a 3.51 BCPM and only 3.08 Overall for AMCAS (no forgiveness).

 

[Wylde]

Maybe you are falsely assuming that no one applies with GPAs lower than 2.75 or an MCAT of 18.

Medical schools get a ridiculous amount of applications, I would imagine that a good number of these have very low statistics for medical school admissions. They are probably willing to save the man-hours by dropping the xxxx number of applicants with below 2.75, even though they might lose an acceptable applicant or two.

 

[scdocusc]

I saw a post earlier about VCOM's admission. I have to agree that their screening for interviews is completely random. I didnt hit as low as a cutoff but they do take your money before they tell you what's wrong with your application.