Why I believe UMDNJSOM is the most "unosteopathic" DO school!

[njdesi]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I am hopping that this thread may not anger or offend people, but I would like to share briefly my experience with the Dean of Admissions at UMDNJSOM. I am a NJ state resident, a graduate of Rutgers University (3.3 undergrad, 3.16 postbaac, science cum 3.03), and have an MPH from the UMDNJ system (3.85) (and a 25P MCAT). My file has been "on hold for an interview" at UMDNJSOM for months. I finally e-mailed and talked to Dean Warren Wallace what makes my application too good for rejection, but not good enough for an interview. His answer is the most bull **** answer I have heard from any osteopathic medical school admissions person ever : "your science GPA and MCAT is below our average". I never expected a DO school to
be so numbers oriented. I am positive if I was a Hispanic or African American female I would have been given an interview. I realize now that these state funded medical schools are very political. I am Asian so I am expected to come with a higher GPA and MCAT score.

I thought that DO schools looked at more than just numbers! I have been interviewed and accepted at 4 DO schools. I had to turn down interviews at KCOM and UNECOM due to lack of funds and time. I will be heading off to PCOM in August. UMDNJSOM cannot even compare to KCOM and PCOM.

I am still left to wonder why this school is so arrogant. It's OMM hours is among the lowest of DO schools, its clinical affiliations are mediocre at best, and the facilities cannot compare to other sister schools such as PCOM and KCOM. It does not even have nationally ranked osteopathic hospitals such as MSUCOM, OUCOM, TCOM and WVSOM among the state funded DO schools. I feel this school is overrated and arrogant.

 

[DermRes]

"unosteopathic DO school"?

now there is an oxymoron to add to these top 20 lists

Taken from oxymoronlist.com
20. Government Organization
19. Alone Together
18. Personal Computer
17. Silent Scream
16. Living Dead
15. Same Difference
14. Taped Live
13. Plastic Glasses
12. Tight Slacks
11. Peace Force
10. Pretty Ugly
9. Head Butt
8. Working Vacation
7. Tax Return
6. Virtual Reality
5. Dodge Ram
4. Work Party
3. Jumbo Shrimp
2. Healthy Tan
1. Microsoft Works

Number 2 is my favorite

 

[FlemishGiant]

Hey Derm Res,
RANDOM question, but is it true that you are made to sign a contract before starting your residency at KCOM stating that you would not practice Derm w/ in 100 miles of Kirksville after completion of your residency or is that just another dirty rumor? If it is true it seems a little, actually a lot, screwy to me.

Thanks!

 

[DermRes]

I don't know where you get your information. All AOA residents sign standard AOA contracts, and so did I.

To be honest, I never really read my contract until today. There is an old addage among the derm residents... When there is a contract for dermatology position with your name on it, You DON'T READ IT!! YOU SIGN IT!!

It is a dirty rumor alright. Here is another oxymoron for you..
"accurate rumors"

 

[me109cito]

Originally posted by njdesi
I am hopping that this thread may not anger or offend people, but I would like to share briefly my experience with the Dean of Admissions at UMDNJSOM. I am a NJ state resident, a graduate of Rutgers University (3.3 undergrad, 3.16 postbaac, science cum 3.03), and have an MPH from the UMDNJ system (3.85) (and a 25P MCAT). My file has been "on hold for an interview" at UMDNJSOM for months. I finally e-mailed and talked to Dean Warren Wallace what makes my application too good for rejection, but not good enough for an interview. His answer is the most bull **** answer I have heard from any osteopathic medical school admissions person ever : "your science GPA and MCAT is below our average". I never expected a DO school to
be so numbers oriented. I am positive if I was a Hispanic or African American female I would have been given an interview. I realize now that these state funded medical schools are very political. I am Asian so I am expected to come with a higher GPA and MCAT score.

I thought that DO schools looked at more than just numbers! I have been interviewed and accepted at 4 DO schools. I had to turn down interviews at KCOM and UNECOM due to lack of funds and time. I will be heading off to PCOM in August. UMDNJSOM cannot even compare to KCOM and PCOM.

I am still left to wonder why this school is so arrogant. It's OMM hours is among the lowest of DO schools, its clinical affiliations are mediocre at best, and the facilities cannot compare to other sister schools such as PCOM and KCOM. It does not even have nationally ranked osteopathic hospitals such as MSUCOM, OUCOM, TCOM and WVSOM among the state funded DO schools. I feel this school is overrated and arrogant.

Get over it. Go to the school that accepted you and be happy for it. Don't try to blame other minorities for your short comings. Obviously the people at UMDNJSOM don't want you in their programs. Maybe they already have too many asians and they don't need one more. So stop whining and be happy you got in somewhere. No school is required to interview you, right?

 

[goooooober]

njdesi, I don't know anything (and I mean anything) about the school you are talking about. However, you are absolutely right about the minority students. I know many of my friends who had lower grades and MCATs than me, but were given interviews at very top programs. These were C avg. students. However, just because they were applying as minority students, they were given priority. The affirmative action policy is not an appropriate policy for contemporary times, nevertheless it is in place. The best thing to do is try, and I know its hard, but try to not pay attention and move on. You have a bright future that even affirmative action can't take away. Peace out.

 

[me109cito]

Originally posted by goooooober
njdesi, I don't know anything (and I mean anything) about the school you are talking about. However, you are absolutely right about the minority students. I know many of my friends who had lower grades and MCATs than me, but were given interviews at very top programs. These were C avg. students. However, just because they were applying as minority students, they were given priority. The affirmative action policy is not an appropriate policy for contemporary times, nevertheless it is in place. The best thing to do is try, and I know its hard, but try to not pay attention and move on. You have a bright future that even affirmative action can't take away. Peace out.

What kinda of top programs were your C average friends interviewed at?

 

[me109cito]

Originally posted by njdesi
I am hopping that this thread may not anger or offend people, but I would like to share briefly my experience with the Dean of Admissions at UMDNJSOM. I am a NJ state resident, a graduate of Rutgers University (3.3 undergrad, 3.16 postbaac, science cum 3.03), and have an MPH from the UMDNJ system (3.85) (and a 25P MCAT). My file has been "on hold for an interview" at UMDNJSOM for months. I finally e-mailed and talked to Dean Warren Wallace what makes my application too good for rejection, but not good enough for an interview. His answer is the most bull **** answer I have heard from any osteopathic medical school admissions person ever : "your science GPA and MCAT is below our average". I never expected a DO school to
be so numbers oriented. I am positive if I was a Hispanic or African American female I would have been given an interview. I realize now that these state funded medical schools are very political. I am Asian so I am expected to come with a higher GPA and MCAT score.

I thought that DO schools looked at more than just numbers! I have been interviewed and accepted at 4 DO schools. I had to turn down interviews at KCOM and UNECOM due to lack of funds and time. I will be heading off to PCOM in August. UMDNJSOM cannot even compare to KCOM and PCOM.

I am still left to wonder why this school is so arrogant. It's OMM hours is among the lowest of DO schools, its clinical affiliations are mediocre at best, and the facilities cannot compare to other sister schools such as PCOM and KCOM. It does not even have nationally ranked osteopathic hospitals such as MSUCOM, OUCOM, TCOM and WVSOM among the state funded DO schools. I feel this school is overrated and arrogant.

Your numbers do suck so you have nothing to complain about. I can understand if you had a 30 on your MCAT and 3.7 on your science GPA. So maybe the affirmative action worked on your favor at another school.

 

[goooooober]

me109cito, I wish I could tell you, but I am afraid my friends will read this post and know who I am. I will tell you however, they were all allopathic schools in the east coast. I am not making this up. when they told me where they were interviewing, my jaw dropped. I could not believe how much race will make a difference for an applicant. It is time for pre-meds and med students to realize getting into med school is all about politics and nothing else.

 

[CuriousDoc]

No doubt you are seriously freaking out about going to a DO school, I understand this because many of us were in similar situations. However, to disrespect a school just because you didn't get an interview is poor form. Firstly, your Rutgers scores are low but you surely make up for them with your masters grades. I think that being a asian male really doesn't factor into the decision making process, Dr. Wallace is a pretty fair guy.

Secondly, in saying the PCOM is a better school, they don't even have their own hospital. PROBLEM!!! By the by, look at our system we are the only school who filled 100% of our spots.

We do look at more than just numbers, perhaps your were deficent in other areas of your application. Be honest with yourself!! Our school does have quite a bit of variety but there are plenty of "Asians" including: indians(14)/1 Pakistani/4 chinese/taiwanese people/ 1 vientemese (who transferred out)/1 Phillipino and lots of mature (read: older) students. In addition, there are many traditional minorties in our school and 35 caucasians in our calss.

It is true UMDNJ does not have a particularly strong OMT department however, they rank #1-3 in board scores every year. Most of us don't even use it in clerkships anyway.

So suck it up, you in a school. Stop raggin on a school that you didn't get into and will probably want to do a 3rd or 4th year elective at.

 

[oceandocDO]

CuriousDoc,

Calm down my friend. Njdesi apologized for her original post in a thread below.

UMDNJ is a fine school, but I'm not so sure I'd want to start out there next year anyway as Governor McGreevy is all about major reform for the UMDNJ system and Rutgers, wanting to model it after the Univ of California system. While this may be fine and possibly better in the long run, there's bound to be changes and growing pains. I wouldnt want to be a guinea pig. Just my opinion.

By the way, not to be the devils advocate, but filling 100% of your spots isnt that difficult with a class size so small. How many spots do you have anyway? Just an observation, no harm intended. I actually almost went to UMDNJ. It was a last second decision in that a friend of mine had an ortho slot locked up there and they called 3 weeks later to tell her that the funding had "evaporated", so they left her high and dry. Poor professionalism, IMO, so it left a bad taste in my mouth.

anyway, back to peds.

 

[rbassdo]

Originally posted by FlemishGiant
Hey Derm Res,
RANDOM question, but is it true that you are made to sign a contract before starting your residency at KCOM stating that you would not practice Derm w/ in 100 miles of Kirksville after completion of your residency or is that just another dirty rumor? If it is true it seems a little, actually a lot, screwy to me.

Thanks!

This is definitely not accurate. I believe the contract says something about 60 miles - not 100. If this really is just a rumor (as DermRes suggests), then EVERYONE I've talked to in my class and the one before have been duped. The head Derm. guy at KCOM seems like a nice guy, and if there was another derm guy/gal in the area, his business could be cut in half.

 

[DermRes]

Originally posted by rbassdo
This is definitely not accurate. I believe the contract says something about 60 miles - not 100. If this really is just a rumor (as DermRes suggests), then EVERYONE I've talked to in my class and the one before have been duped.

Well, I don't "suggest". I know what I have signed. Unless there is another addendum to my contract that is coming my way you know about, I can say there is no such a clause in my contract be it 100 miles, 60 miles, or 5 miles.

I can't speak for other residents in the program as to what is in their contracts. I signed the standard AOA contract like any other residents in the AOA programs.

 

[edfig99]

Originally posted by DermRes
"unosteopathic DO school"?

now there is an oxymoron to add to these top 20 lists

Taken from oxymoronlist.com
20. Government Organization
19. Alone Together
18. Personal Computer
17. Silent Scream
16. Living Dead
15. Same Difference
14. Taped Live
13. Plastic Glasses
12. Tight Slacks
11. Peace Force
10. Pretty Ugly
9. Head Butt
8. Working Vacation
7. Tax Return
6. Virtual Reality
5. Dodge Ram
4. Work Party
3. Jumbo Shrimp
2. Healthy Tan
1. Microsoft Works

Number 2 is my favorite

ya can always add "Military Intelligence"
😉

 

[DermpathDO]

njdesi,

I am sorry you feel the way you do about not getting into UMDNJ-som. Sounds like sour grapes to me. However, as one forum member posted, perhaps you will better off going to PCOM. PCOM is an excellent school , even without the hospital. Many osteopathic schools do not have affiliated hospitals and it doesnt seem to hurt their training, I trained at DMU and the lack of a hospital there did not harm me in any way. It did give me a chance to do rotations at many different institutions.
As a faculty member at UMDNJ, I agree your numbers were probably not up to par with the average we accepted for this year. Please realize we have about 90 slots, and get up to 300-400 applications for those slots. This is a factor in all medical schools not just DO schools. Also, affirmative action is a reality, and being asian may be helpful, but it does not guarantee you a slot.
Another issue noted by one forum member is going to be a reality in the coming years, Governor "mcgreedy" did cut funding to Universitysm drastically and is also doing a headlong rush into merging all state medical schools into one big mishmash. This will affect learning during the course of transition and has already depressed faculty morale.
Be Happy you were accepted somewhere, and get ready for the hardest work you have ever done in your life.

 

[goooooober]

I just wanted to say that Asians, although minority, are not considered so. Affirmative action is not aimed to help all minorities, only those that are represented by very few in higher institutions. Asians as a group are very highly educated and successful, so they are actually at a disadvantage than Hispanics, African Americans, and American Indians. Just like middle eastern people, or Asian Indians are not considered minority even though they really are. Point, don't be surprised as an Asian if you are not treated as a minority. Peace out.

 

[jhug]

aren't a lot of schools getting away from being directly linked to hospital(s) b/c in most cases they aren't making $$? I remember hearing about 2 state schools attached to state hospitals that are in financial woes b/c the hospital is losing money with lower medicaid/care reimbursements and lower private insurance reimbursements as well. I guess where i am going with this is that a school isn't necessarily better off with/without an attached hospital. just a thought

 

[oceandocDO]

aren't a lot of schools getting away from being directly linked to hospital(s) b/c in most cases they aren't making $$? I remember hearing about 2 state schools attached to state hospitals that are in financial woes b/c the hospital is losing money with lower medicaid/care reimbursements and lower private insurance reimbursements as well. I guess where i am going with this is that a school isn't necessarily better off with/without an attached hospital. just a thought

Totally. I'm not sure if any D.O. schools officially "own" their hospitals anymore. Could be wrong though. Some may be next door to the classrooms, but it doesnt mean their under the same leadership or legal constraints. Many MD hospitals and allopathic schools are following the D.O. hospital lead and have splitted legal partnership as well, for the liability is too great. Some retain the med school name (ie... an affiliate of XXXXX School of Medicine), and the resulting clerkship agreements, but legally they're separate entities. Medical schools are not in the business of running hospitals anymore these days, or at least that's the direction it's headed. Corporate america runs hospitals and the faster you immerse yourself in these corporate hospitals, the quicker you'll learn the system which is driving healthcare today.

 

[ramsestiger]

NJdesi - I honestly believe that you should not be throwing around the race issue so lackadaisically. I'm not trying to patronize you, but a lot of people would consider your comments to be classless. If you said those things in a professional environment, you could find yourself in some hot water.

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

ramesetiger,

njdesi already withdrew her comments in another thread. If you took the time to read through the whole thread you would realize that someone else already mentioned this to another person flaming her for her comments. Realize that she was in a bad mood from the comments she received and posted this thread without thinking it through fully. Please, in a professional environment you would be looked upon harshly too if you dredged up old news and criticized someone for something they already apologized for.

njdesi, I suggest you delete this thread as people keep pulling it up to flame you. Or at least update your original message with an apology. We need to close this thread forever.

Russell

 

[ramsestiger]

My apologies, then. I'm always willing to forgive, so I hope others are, too.

p.s. The apology from njdesi should probably be on this thread so everyone can see it before replying to the initial poster! But no worries...