Why I won't get into med school...

[DD214_DOC]

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Here's why I won't get in: I have the most horrible, ****ty luck of anyone on the planet.

So I got to retake organic II because of some problems I had when I took it the first time. No big deal, I'm doing great. I have an 87 average going into the final exam.

The weekend before the final, I get sick. Sinus infection AND a bladder infection (as I find out 3 days later). I take almost all of my finals with a fever of over 100 and a lack of sleep. I go from a B+ in organic to a freaking C because I'm sick and our exam is 40% of our grade.

There's no way I can get around this problem now. Looks like I'm going to be doing a post-bacc. 😡

 

[OSUdoc08]

If you are going to let a 'C' prevent you from entering medical school, then maybe you really won't get in. I had many 'C's' in many subjects, and I was accepted to 4 schools.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Were any of those in retaken classes? That's my point ... I had to retake and got a C anyways.

 

[OSUdoc08]

No I didn't retake a class. But they go off your overall GPA and MCAT to decide who to interview. Once at the interview, grades are thrown out as deciding factors. As long as you have A's, B's, and C's, that's all that matters. D's & F's are the unacceptable grades.

Honestly though, not only were my massive amounts of C's not mentioned at the interview----grades weren't even discussed.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Are interview offers based on the AACOM GPA or the school's GPA?

 

[Adapt]

JKDMed, don't worry about it man. From your posting history here, I can tell you really want to be a DO and this will definitely show in your interviews. As long as your gpa is above a 3.0 and you do well on your MCAT, that C won't even matter.

Just apply to all DO schools and you will get in somewhere. It's just a matter of where.

 

[Ryan]

They go off of AACOM GPA...keeps everyone on a fairly even field given you can get above a 4.0 at some schools. 🙂

 

[Fenrezz]

Are interview offers based on the AACOM GPA or the school's GPA?

They are based only on the AACOM GPA. I wouldnt worry about it too much. My transcripts were a complete mess. I replaced quite a few classes because of grades I earned (I use the word "earned" loosely) many years ago, long before I decided I wanted to be a doctor. A "C" isn't the end of the road by any stretch, unless you had your heart set on elitist ivy league schools.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I don't really care about ivy league or allo schools. I'm probably over reacting, but it's disconcerting to go from an 87 to a <=79 because of one test and one bad day.

 

[kdances]

I don't really care about ivy league or allo schools. I'm probably over reacting, but it's disconcerting to go from an 87 to a <=79 because of one test and one bad day.

I did have my grades come up at two interviews becuase they were C's and I was able to really bump up my GPA in the following quarters. Just be prepared if they do ask you about your grades. Obviously you don't want to go into a long detailed explaination but just be honest. The school may not even ask. Good luck and I definately wouldn't throw up a white flag and give up on applying. Try to get that overall GPA up if you have time. Hope this helps 😀

 

[DD214_DOC]

I think a lot of you seem to be addressing the wrong problem. The problem wasn't that I got a "C", the problem is that I got a "C" the second time in the same course, as I was retaking it. I'm pretty sure this won't look good at all.

I'm under the impression that retakes must at least be a, "B".

 

[stoic]

Though I'm not a huge fan of the following course of action, it sounds like it your case it might be appropriate:

get a doctor's note and beg your teacher.

Good luck man. I feel your pain. I took my finals for fall semester with the flu and a 101 degree fever. Went from a 3.7 to a 3.2 because of it.

Let us know what you decide to do.

 

[HeavyD]

There are some very postive things that osteopath schools do in their selection process, things that tend to minimalize those times in life when it's your turn to take a big bite of the turd sandwich.
1) GPA is just one consideration of the overall applicant.
2) Even if this is not the only class typically required for application that you are retaking, determination says alot of one's charater and I think DO schools are open-minded to this
3) This, as well as any potentially 'negative' aspect of your application can actually work towards your advantage (as long as there aren't too many 'bad but good' attributes). Once you get into school, and you will get in given enough determination, there will be more of these bum-deals coming. During you PS and interviews, use this event as an opportunity to address two issues at once. "Describe a time when a very stressful situation happened and what you did/how you handled it (a frickin' perannial favorite at just about every school I interviewed)". Describe how you had to suck it up and did your best given the situation all while being acutely aware of the potential ramifications a 'C' might be. Then lead right into how you now can view this as a growing event for you; that you 'just kept on going' despite an unexpected bump. Really, those bumps are everywhere during med school and you will have to be able to handle them in stride and keep on going once you're in(if I can speak metaphorically for a momement). Mention this during your PS/interview. It has been a frightful sight seeing what the relentless stress has done to the outward appearance of some of my classmates that aren't so well adept in handling the bumps. God only knows how beat up they are on the inside. Resiliance is a strength in med school and this is an opportunity for you to demonstrate yours.

 

[Aaron Earles]

Don't worry about it JKDMed. I had a couple of C's on my transcripts as well. I think that you will still be ok.

 

[Megalofyia]

. Once at the interview, grades are thrown out as deciding factors. As long as you have A's, B's, and C's, that's all that matters. D's & F's are the unacceptable grades.

I hope your just refering to DO schools because many schools do not throw GPAs out once you get an interview. What they do is then take everything into consideration. It is infact possible to get an interview and still get rejected because of your GPA. I got waitlisted at two DO schools because of my undergrad gpa. They didn't even throw that out in considedration of my masters GPA after the interview.

I'm not trying to discourage JKDMed: Their undergrad GPA is higher than mine to begin with. I'm just saying it's a bit of a myth to say that once you get an interview all that counts is how you do on the interview.

 

[ez073323]

I think a lot of you seem to be addressing the wrong problem. The problem wasn't that I got a "C", the problem is that I got a "C" the second time in the same course, as I was retaking it. I'm pretty sure this won't look good at all.

I'm under the impression that retakes must at least be a, "B".

JKDMed,

You are most definitely over reacting...

take a minute to catch your breath, collect your thoughts, and put yourself in the shoes of an admissions committee member that is reviewing your file... Do you honestly think they will look at your file and say, "well this guy got a C the second time around in Organic Chemisty... what makes him think that he will be a good physician??"

If a school that I applied to did have an admissions committee member that followed that thought process, I wouldn't want to go that that school anyway...

Stay positive and forward seeking and you will score an interview... worst case scenario your interviewer asks about the C and you tell them everything that happened...

Hope you are recovered!

Brian Enriquez
[email protected]

 

[OSUdoc08]

Most interviews that I went to did not have access to GPA or MCAT, i.e. they were "closed" interviews. That is what I am referring to.

 

[mamaMD]

Here's why I won't get in: I have the most horrible, ****ty luck of anyone on the planet.

So I got to retake organic II because of some problems I had when I took it the first time. No big deal, I'm doing great. I have an 87 average going into the final exam.

The weekend before the final, I get sick. Sinus infection AND a bladder infection (as I find out 3 days later). I take almost all of my finals with a fever of over 100 and a lack of sleep. I go from a B+ in organic to a freaking C because I'm sick and our exam is 40% of our grade.
QUOTE]

I understand, I have had a rough semester myself with my kids getting sick and my husband having knee surgery, and financial problems. I am pretty sure I will end up with a C for Gen Chem 1. I'm not too worried about it though, this will be the first C on my transcript so that kinda upset me, but I'm certainly not retaking this stupid class.....LOL

MamaMD

 

[Back34]

Here's why I won't get in: I have the most horrible, ****ty luck of anyone on the planet.

So I got to retake organic II because of some problems I had when I took it the first time. No big deal, I'm doing great. I have an 87 average going into the final exam.

The weekend before the final, I get sick. Sinus infection AND a bladder infection (as I find out 3 days later). I take almost all of my finals with a fever of over 100 and a lack of sleep. I go from a B+ in organic to a freaking C because I'm sick and our exam is 40% of our grade.
QUOTE]

I understand, I have had a rough semester myself with my kids getting sick and my husband having knee surgery, and financial problems. I am pretty sure I will end up with a C for Gen Chem 1. I'm not too worried about it though, this will be the first C on my transcript so that kinda upset me, but I'm certainly not retaking this stupid class.....LOL

MamaMD

Hey, don't sweat it. I failed physics, chemistry, and anatomy when I was an undergrad. Study your butt off for the MCAT because a good score can offset blemishes on your transcript (I wound up with a 30 and just finished my second year of med school). Get well soon and good luck!!

 

[PublicHealth]

Here's why I won't get in: I have the most horrible, ****ty luck of anyone on the planet.

So I got to retake organic II because of some problems I had when I took it the first time. No big deal, I'm doing great. I have an 87 average going into the final exam.

The weekend before the final, I get sick. Sinus infection AND a bladder infection (as I find out 3 days later). I take almost all of my finals with a fever of over 100 and a lack of sleep. I go from a B+ in organic to a freaking C because I'm sick and our exam is 40% of our grade.

There's no way I can get around this problem now. Looks like I'm going to be doing a post-bacc. 😡

How are your other grades? If your AACOMAS science GPA is in the 3.2 or higher range and you have solid MCAT scores, you should not have any problem getting into DO programs. Keep in mind that DO programs tend to evaluate the whole application. I highly doubt that ONE grade in ONE retaken class is going to make or break you. Best of luck.

 

[that dr. jack]

jk darling, don't worry. things seem crap now because you're disappointed, but believe me if you have enough other positive aspects to your app as a whole, it won't matter. i got 6 Cs in my science classes and i never once got asked about my grades.

 

[docslytherin]

I don't really care about ivy league or allo schools. I'm probably over reacting, but it's disconcerting to go from an 87 to a <=79 because of one test and one bad day.

you'll get more of this in med school. it happens... there are some classes here (like psychiatry - i think) where you only have one grade for the course. in my immunology class we really only had a midterm and a final with some small quizzes thrown in that didn't really matter much.

the best thing is to just move on. don't worry about it. i had a C in organic 1 and it was never even brought up in my interviews. just go into your interviews confident that you belong in med school and certain that you want to go to a DO school and you'll be fine. don't let them intimidate you if the interviewers bring it up. most of the time that stuff gets brought up to see if you make excuses for it (my teacher hated me, etc.) instead of accepting responsibility for it or they just want to make you squirm.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Unfortunately, the truth sounds like an excuse, "I was sick". Would they actually buy this? Or should I lie and say I didn't study or something?

 

[zman1910]

JKDmed pleaseee just chilll!! Dont worry about everything so much. So what if you get a C in organic the first, second, or third time. Its your overall gpa that matters and what will propel you through. Yes all gpa's need to be good, but dont worry you seem to be in good shape, so jsut relax and concentrate on your MCAT and hopefully everything will follow through for you. I understand your worried, but osteopathic schools are simply not based on a couple of grades here and there. Instead of all this resentment use your energy for the MCAT and trust me you should be fine with your gpa so long as you have at least an avg MCAT score! By the way I also went to USC-Columbia. I just graduated in December with my bachelors in chemical engineering. I have decided to attend LECOM-Bradenton this fall as well out of the 2 osteopathic schools I applied to. I got a C+ in orgo 1, and they looked past it, although my gpa was still above average. So just relax and try not to worry to much! The key to your interview is to be confident and give answers with confidence and only answer the questions they ask you. Dont be sloppy and dont feel you need to explain your grades unless asked. I was not asked about my C+ in any interview. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Best Wishes 😀

 

[sophiejane]

Here's my sob story:

Grandma died (at home, with me by her side): C in Gen Chem I
Grandpa died (one month later): D in Gen Chem II
Retook Gen Chem: got a B
Orgo I: C (no excuse, just found it hard and was working full time)
Orgo II: B
Physics I: C (the final was equal to the ENTIRE grade. No pressure there...)
Physics II: B

I got B's and A's in everything else, squeaked by with a science GPA of 3.01 and the bare minimum of science prerequisites, and a boatload A's in arts and literature, with an overall GPA of 3.67. MCAT 24 (second try--first was even more dismal).

...but here I am, almost an MS-II. Holding my own with all the science majors and youngsters. 🙂

You go. DO NOT give up. I repeat, DO NOT give up!

 

[fuegorama]

J-
Have you considered taking some wikkid biochem.? It shows you DO have what's required, knocks out some heavy time in MSI, and potentially obscures your poor o-chem performance. If your school is associated w/ a medical college, see if you can take their course.

UNECOM offers a distance biochem. that is pretty stout, but requires serious motivation/dedication. The entire course grade depends on a single exam.
You might want to check the website www.une.edu under distance learning.

Do not let another course interfere w/ MCAT prep. That bisnitch can make you a winnah or a cryah.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I was going to do biochem in the summer, but my financial aid fell through so I wouldn't even be able to take it until the fall -- too late.

Guess I chance it and see what happens.

 

[dollarbincommon]

I don't really care about ivy league or allo schools. I'm probably over reacting, but it's disconcerting to go from an 87 to a <=79 because of one test and one bad day.

Not to mean but in my university (in Toronto):

A+ = 90
A = 80
B+ = 70
B = 60
C+ = 50

So in my uni, you would have a B+. One of my profs says that the States has an skewed grading system (don't know if that's true).

 

[DD214_DOC]

Not to mean but in my university (in Toronto):

A+ = 90
A = 80
B+ = 70
B = 60
C+ = 50

So in my uni, you would have a B+. One of my profs says that the States has an skewed grading system (don't know if that's true).

The typical scale here is A 90-100, B 70-89, C 60-79, etc., but for some reason this professor decided to make our class a normal 10-point scale.

Oh well, at least I don't have to take it a third time.

 

[TomC727]

I got a total of 5 C's in my sciences and I got in. As long as you have good experience and come across as someone who understands and wants to practice osteopathic medicine, you will be just fine.

 

[nate2973]

I feel your pain. I was also sick during finals. Didn't do very well since I had no energy to study. Thankfully, my averages were high enough that they didn't affect my grades that much. Don't worry though, even future doctors get sick. As long as your grades don't go down the toilet from here on out you should be fine. 🙂

 

[WillowRose]

I was just "counseling" a student the other day on what he needs to do to pursue medical school. (Even though his family of MD's don't look favorably on DO's. I pointed out that they were foreign medical graduates and had no room to talk! LOL Just teasing............)

Anyway, he was in much worse shape than a C in Organic. The *trend* and the overall GPA are much more important than any single grade. If you start out great and then get worse every semester until you graduate, that's bad. If you have one bad class and you improve after, that's good. One C--even in a class you took over--is not going to kill your application.

I think my grades were mentioned *once* in my interviews. The interviewer was looking at the overall trend of my grades and noticed that I went from a nearly 4.0 one semeter to a 2.5 the next (not overall--just for the semester). I told the truth. I took several difficult classes first semester of soph. year and decided to party instead of study. Got my butt in gear after that. I had C's in both semesters of Physics and failed Calc 2 (made a B on retake, thank goodness). Also made a C in a graduate-level Inorganic Chemistry class.

Stop stressing over the grades. If they come up in an interview, tell the truth without whining. That's the key. It's one thing to say "I was sick and had a fever of 212...." It's quite another to whine about it. Even though your reason is the most common excuse in the book ;-) you don't have to sound like you're making excuses.

Willow~

 

[scrupulous79]

jk darling, don't worry. things seem crap now because you're disappointed, but believe me if you have enough other positive aspects to your app as a whole, it won't matter. i got 6 Cs in my science classes and i never once got asked about my grades.

6C's...now I know accepted DO students' averages are so low. I don't think that is something to bragg about. 🙄

Seriously, if you are repeating a class it is pretty much given one should aim for an A.

This thing about the DO school looking at past number and looking at whole application sounds good, but in practice it is very difficult to practice. Seriously, how can admission committee even know the true motive of an applicant by looking at his extracurricular activities or his personal statement. MCAT and GPA are the most objective component of applicant's application and DO schools need to emphasize their importance! Currently, most applicant are not going to practice / integrate OMM after graduation; perhaps DO schools need to change this looking at whole person approach...

 

[JohnDO]

Seriously, how can admission committee even know the true motive of an applicant by looking at his extracurricular activities or his personal statement.

..and GPA + MCAT show true motives?

Oh, you meant motivation. Just because you struggle with a few classes doesn't mean you're not motivated. There are so many other factors to an applicant, which is why osteopathic schools look at everything.

MCAT and GPA are the most objective component of applicant's application

heh, because every organic chemistry class in this nation is exactly the same.

 

[meanderson]

Most interviews that I went to did not have access to GPA or MCAT, i.e. they were "closed" interviews. That is what I am referring to.

Of course. But at some point after the interview sessions the adcom or your adcom rep/interviewer is going to pull out your file and take it into consideration. It's not like they throw the file away after interview invitations are given out and then fill up their class based on who interviews best without regard to their gpa/mcat/whole secondary app.

One thing I'm learning from this thread is the difference in the allo and osteo student philosophies. If you're trying to get into an allopathic school, don't have a great gpa to begin with, and then retake what is probably the most important premed class with a C.....that is considered a 'major' deal. If it's not considered so in the osteopathic admissions world well then I'd say the OP is still in ok shape....

It seems like being a south carolina resident though it would be preferrable to go to one of their state allopathic schools. Just from a $$ standpoint. Wouldn't there be about a 70k tuition difference between going to USC or a DO school? Being a South carolina resident is a good deal in the medical school admissions games....two state schools with relatively low numbers by alloapthic standards.

 

[sophiejane]

6C's...now I know accepted DO students' averages are so low. I don't think that is something to bragg about. 🙄

Seriously, if you are repeating a class it is pretty much given one should aim for an A.

This thing about the DO school looking at past number and looking at whole application sounds good, but in practice it is very difficult to practice. Seriously, how can admission committee even know the true motive of an applicant by looking at his extracurricular activities or his personal statement. MCAT and GPA are the most objective component of applicant's application and DO schools need to emphasize their importance! Currently, most applicant are not going to practice / integrate OMM after graduation; perhaps DO schools need to change this looking at whole person approach...

Why should it be changed? Are we turning out bad, incompetent doctors? Not any more than the allo schools are. In fact, I'd say we are turning out some really excellent docs, given that most DOs go allopathic for residency and they have to really shine (more so than allo students) to get there.

Grades in undergrad are a HOOP to jump through. I am doing better than some of my classmates who had higher science GPAs and 33s on the MCAT. I will (if I do say so myself) be a very good physician and clinician someday. ...even though I (gasp) got 3 C's and a D in undergrad science and 24 on the MCAT.

Jump the hoops in undergrad. Do well in medical school. Become a doctor.

 

[meanderson]

Why should it be changed? Are we turning out bad, incompetent doctors? Not any more than the allo schools are. QUOTE]

I agree that osteopathic schools are turning out excellent doctors just like their allo counterparts, but they really aren't in a position to change their admissions policies. Sure, perhaps they could snap up a few of the 3.5/28ish students who don't get into an allopathic school and haven't shown any DO interest, but a lot of these students would just rather take another spin at the allopathic wheel anyway.

It's not like the average DO student has a 25.x mcat with EC's that make mother theresa look like a selfish diva and the average MD student has a ~30 mcat with no EC's. There is any evidence that DO schools place more emphasis on EC's than allopathic schools. The small difference in some cases is that you have to actually show some interest in the DO field by getting a DO letter, but these hardly speaks to the movivation of applicants or the EC profile of applicants as a whole.

It's not like if PCOM could have mcat/gpa averages of 3.7/31 they wouldn't love it. They take what they get(just what we all do in life)

 

[DD214_DOC]

My performance has been relatively consistent. Calculating the way AACOMAS does it, my cumulative is right at 3.30 with science either 3.21 or 3.17, depending on if they count physio psych. I don't have hardly any science hours at all. In fact, one A in the science I'm signed up for during the summer will dump it back up to 3.31.

My year-by-year performance:

Freshman:3.30
Sophomore:3.42
Junior: 3.30
Senior: 3.18

Senior would have been in the 3.30-3.40 range as well, if not for the problems I have stated in this thread (the C in organic II). My sophomore year is only above the 3.40 range because I had about 5 hours' worth of fluff. Semester-by-semester is totally wild, but I imagine it isn't the best indication of performance due to normal inconsistency amongst individual classes.

 

[topolm]

Hi,

Just wanted to chime in. I am interested in applying to a DO med school. Graduated in 2001 with a bs in CHE. With the 6 bio classes I need to take at community college to finish of prequisites for med school (assuming I get A's in them) my overall gpa should be a 3.29, and science gpa a 3.12. Question is this: I took physical chemistry (required for graduating) and my whole class got ass raped by the professor. Avg grade was a D+. I got a D. Additionally, my gpa trend through my 4 years in school was a downward decline. Chemical Engineering classes were devastating my gpa (mostly B's, B-'s) Its not practical to take this class over because I live in anther state and have been working for three years now. Could I still be a competitive candidate? assuming a descent mcat, LOR? Starting volunteer work at Inova fairfax ER, and pre-med classes this june with hope of getting into med school by 2007. Additionally, how would admissions look at work experience? My job is hard as hell being a patent examiner with the USPTO, so I'm no slouch when it comes to understanding technical matters. Any opinions are GREATLy appreciated

 

[internetwop]

yeah, I received a "C" for gen chem I & a "C+" for gen chem II because I had a real crappy prof!! But, all my other grades are A's & B's. I'm kinda worried about those C's myself, but I'm still applying. If C's in gen chem are going to determine whether they think I would be a good physician, then I say screw them all. I want to be a doctor, NOT a chemist!!

 

[HeavyD]

Topolm,

Having gone through the application process 3 times and always assessing where I was and what I needed to do to get where I wanted, I give you my humble offerings:
Pros:
Science major (esp. in Chem!) everyone who has ever ventured into the halls of a chem dept are well aware of the living evil that p-chem is. The mere fact that you passed that class is a credit.
Experience: Life; holding a real job and living in the real world provides a perspective that traditional ug's just don't have. This will come out in interviews, PS, etc. Work: keep up the health care stuff. ER's are great places to gain insight as to why you want to go through all the hell that awaits. Use unique experiences gained in the ER for the all too common questions: "Tell of a stressful time in your life", or "Why do you want to be a doctor" and the other BS interview/app questions. Throwing in experience-related qualifiers are a plus (per admission folks I've spoke w/ in the past).
Cons:
Bio pre-rec's at a JC/CC. Any way to take them at a 4yr? Not a big deal, but I have been told pre-rec's from 4 yr. schools are much more encouraged.
Science GPA. Easily explained as a chem major (assumably grade inflation hasn't corrupted your alma mater's chem dept., too many institutions are guilty of this and tend to hose those from more honest programs).
Unknowns:
MCAT. Talk about a big variable. Didn't post your scores, don't know where you stand. Seems that the DO nat'l ave. is somewhere around 25-26. Should be an easy task w/ a chem major (strong PhysSci background) and taking bio pre-recs soon (have it fresh in the mind when MCAT comes). Solid MCAT scores will open all sorts of doors for you and balance out and GPA issues.
Bottom line: Go for it. The sooner you apply the sooner you get in. Period. Enough hard work, and it will come, either on the first application or second or ....., it will come if you have the dedication.

 

[topolm]

Hey,

thanks for the thoughtful post. Chemistry would have been alot easier than this damn major I gut sucked into. Yeah, P-chem is a b****! I really hated sub atomic physics. Anyways, I have not taken the MCAT yet, so I have no score here.