Why is Dental school so competitive, yet there are schools with low GPAs?

[GypsyHummus]

So Im looking at applying to dental schools, and I have around a 3.4, 3.2 cumulative and science GPA. I was worried about my science GPA, so I called some dental schools to see where I fall on the averages and I must say, I am really surprised. I thought most D schools had averages in the 3.6 area, but places like AT Still and Western have GPAs in the 3.2 range, cumulative and science. I even called one of the institutions who had averages in the 3.5 range and they said that a 3.2 science would be fine with a good DAT score in the 19-20 range.

That means for schools with averages of 3.2, there are people who have 3.5s as well as people who have 3.0 or even lower.

What I found weird is that people still have trouble getting accepted on this forum with above average numbers. Why is it, with lower GPA schools are people not getting interviews and subsequently, accepted? I commonly see people getting lots of interview, but very rarely acceptances, even multiple waitlists. Please know that i am not asking to be grating, I genuinely want to know how dental school can be so competitive with such low GPA averages and why people are having so much trouble. It doesn't make mathematical sense to me

Thanks!

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[JLT223]

They care more about community service and the desire to work with undeserved populations. Schools like this typically don't focus on research and place as many students into specialty programs. If you apply to a school that is heavily focused on community work, and you have zero on your application (regardless of stats), it's an easy rejection. It's all about what you want out of your education.

 

[hellofuturedentists]

The schools you mentioned are private schools I believe. Acceptance rates are lower for less expensive, state schools. Those schools also might weigh heavily on other factors like JLT said, such as community service. A nice DAT score can also make up for a less than solid GPA, especially if it's a situation where freshman year sucked but there's a large upward trend. Finally, if you have nice stats but present yourself poorly in an interview, the school might realize how it would rather take someone with a .2 GPA lower than you but with an excellent personality. This could also happen if you don't speak English very well.

 

[Cello]

Don't be fooled by some of the schools with low GPAs. For example, ASDOH is extremely competitive. Just look at their total applicants vs. how many they accept. As the dean there said during my interview day, they could accept only people with high stats if they wanted to, but that's not the kind of school they want to run. They go for the people with diverse backgrounds and experience as well as a passion for service.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Don't be fooled by some of the schools with low GPAs. For example, ASDOH is extremely competitive. Just look at their total applicants vs. how many they accept. As the dean there said during my interview day, they could accept only people with high stats if they wanted to, but that's not the kind of school they want to run. They go for the people with diverse backgrounds and experience as well as a passion for service.

Then why do so many people on SDN with high GPAs and High DATs get lots of interviews and like 1 acceptance?

 

[hellofuturedentists]

Then why do so many people on SDN with high GPAs and High DATs get lots of interviews and like 1 acceptance?

They don't present themselves well enough in interviews to earn more acceptances.

 

[Cello]

Then why do so many people on SDN with high GPAs and High DATs get lots of interviews and like 1 acceptance?

It happens, but rarely. Most users with high stats get multiple offers if they applied and interviewed at multiple schools. You may be forgetting that there are many students with stellar stats who only want to go to their state school, or they get an offer at their #1 and then decline all future interviews.

 

[yolokie]

... Also a lot of people don't use SDN and those with average/below average stats are less likely to post.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

it's a very legit question and I've wondered the same thing over and over when I didn't get accepted last year and when I was waitlisted at most schools this year (until I got off the waitlist).
If they really chose people based on their stats alone, all the schools would have 3.8~4.0 and 23+ DATs students. I guess if they want to do it, it's possible because they have enough of those qualified candidates.
But seeing that not all schools are cherry picking high stat people, they must be looking at other things, i.e community service, other ECs, etc.

It's really mind boggling to see some really highly qualified candidate get waitlisted. I am not that highly qualified, but I applied thinking that I have a great shot, but no, I was freaking waitlisted at all of them.
If it was only stats game, it would be easy for gunners/nerds who has 4.0 and 25DAT to get in and impossible for people with 3.0 and 17DAT.

 

[JLT223]

it's a very legit question and I've wondered the same thing over and over when I didn't get accepted last year and when I was waitlisted at most schools this year (until I got off the waitlist).
If they really chose people based on their stats alone, all the schools would have 3.8~4.0 and 23+ DATs students. I guess if they want to do it, it's possible because they have enough of those qualified candidates.
But seeing that not all schools are cherry picking high stat people, they must be looking at other things, i.e community service, other ECs, etc.

It's really mind boggling to see some really highly qualified candidate get waitlisted. I am not that highly qualified, but I applied thinking that I have a great shot, but no, I was freaking waitlisted at all of them.
If it was only stats game, it would be easy for gunners/nerds who has 4.0 and 25DAT to get in and impossible for people with 3.0 and 17DAT.

Thankfully it's an interpersonal profession

 

[GypsyHummus]

it's a very legit question and I've wondered the same thing over and over when I didn't get accepted last year and when I was waitlisted at most schools this year (until I got off the waitlist).
If they really chose people based on their stats alone, all the schools would have 3.8~4.0 and 23+ DATs students. I guess if they want to do it, it's possible because they have enough of those qualified candidates.
But seeing that not all schools are cherry picking high stat people, they must be looking at other things, i.e community service, other ECs, etc.

It's really mind boggling to see some really highly qualified candidate get waitlisted. I am not that highly qualified, but I applied thinking that I have a great shot, but no, I was freaking waitlisted at all of them.
If it was only stats game, it would be easy for gunners/nerds who has 4.0 and 25DAT to get in and impossible for people with 3.0 and 17DAT.

You are highly qualified. as far as my understanding, a 24 DAT is really great.

Thats what doesn't make sense to me. For med schools, as long as you don't come across as a sociopath, if you have a 510MCAT and 3.6 GPA, you are virtually garenteed somewhere. Not so much for dental school it seems.

Did you feel as if the schools you were waitlisted at had different interview experiences? For example, your waitlist at NOVA, your interview was horrendous, and you interview at LECOM was great?

 

[JLT223]

if you have a 510MCAT and 3.6 GPA, you are virtually garenteed somewhere. Not so much for dental school it seems.

Nothing is ever guaranteed my friend!

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

You are highly qualified. as far as my understanding, a 24 DAT is really great.

Thats what doesn't make sense to me. For med schools, as long as you don't come across as a sociopath, if you have a 510MCAT and 3.6 GPA, you are virtually garenteed somewhere. Not so much for dental school it seems.

Did you feel as if the schools you were waitlisted at had different interview experiences? For example, your waitlist at NOVA, your interview was horrendous, and you interview at LECOM was great?

Honestly, it all feels random. And i dont know what got me in to two schools and waitlisted/rejected me at others.

For lecom interview, i know i did terribly. It just wasn't my style.. Nova interview was so-so, i could tell that the interviewer wasnt really interested in what i had to say, result, waitlisted 12/1.


My dat is above average, but i have a huge gap year and inconsistent gpa trend, so i am sure high dat alone couldnt get me in. I am thinking that it is the combination of these things thay got me waitlisted at many schools. It could also be my interview skills, i wasnt really well prepared for a some of them.

Touro on the other hand, i think the interview went really well, or so i thought. I did get accepted on their first wave.

Nobody knows for sure what gets people in. I think well rounded people have easier time convincing adcom that they will do well than people with inconsistencies.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[BluntForceTrauma]

Death, taxes, and the Yankees overspending on free agents who they'll have to pay when they're washed up brah

Seems legit

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[nonociceptors]

So Im looking at applying to dental schools, and I have around a 3.4, 3.2 cumulative and science GPA. I was worried about my science GPA, so I called some dental schools to see where I fall on the averages and I must say, I am really surprised. I thought most D schools had averages in the 3.6 area, but places like AT Still and Western have GPAs in the 3.2 range, cumulative and science. I even called one of the institutions who had averages in the 3.5 range and they said that a 3.2 science would be fine with a good DAT score in the 19-20 range.

That means for schools with averages of 3.2, there are people who have 3.5s as well as people who have 3.0 or even lower.

What I found weird is that people still have trouble getting accepted on this forum with above average numbers. Why is it, with lower GPA schools are people not getting interviews and subsequently, accepted? I commonly see people getting lots of interview, but very rarely acceptances, even multiple waitlists. Please know that i am not asking to be grating, I genuinely want to know how dental school can be so competitive with such low GPA averages and why people are having so much trouble. It doesn't make mathematical sense to me

Thanks!

All I'll say is if you're assuming you'll get accepted based on a school saying you're "fine" with a 3.2 and a 19-20, be prepared for disappointment. Not saying you won't get in somewhere, because idk your DAT score, but if you have a 3.2 and want to get an acceptance, don't settle for a 19-20.

 

[hellofuturedentists]

All I'll say is if you're assuming you'll get accepted based on a school saying you're "fine" with a 3.2 and a 19-20, be prepared for disappointment. Not saying you won't get in somewhere, because idk your DAT score, but if you have a 3.2 and want to get an acceptance, don't settle for a 19-20.

Based on his post history, it looks like he has unsuccessfully applied to medical school and might now be looking to dental school as more of a sure thing based on stats alone, which it still isn't.

 

[JLT223]

Based on his post history, it looks like he has unsuccessfully applied to medical school and might now be looking to dental school as more of a sure thing based on stats alone, which it still isn't.

Ugh oh

 

[GypsyHummus]

Based on his post history, it looks like he has unsuccessfully applied to medical school and might now be looking to dental school as more of a sure thing based on stats alone, which it still isn't.

Busted!

I was waitlisted at DO school. I took a diagnostic DAT and scored a 16, which was much higher percentile than my actual MCAT by a lot. Ive been doing some research into the DAT, and the questions are so much easier than the MCAT, and I believe I could do much better on it.

Ive been eyeing dental school for quite some time, since really high school, but I was a horrible student my first 3 years of college and thought that my GPA of 3.0 couldn't cut it. Thinking the dental dream was over, I pursued DO school. Did GPA replacement for DO school and got all As the last 40 credit hours. 3.6c, 3.4s after 2 long years. Alas, D school doesn't take into account grade replacement, so my stats are around the 3.5c, 3.2s, but with a dramatic upward trend.

I know that D school is more competitive than DO school. I understand it is not a backup, but an entire task by itself to take on seriously and something that ADCOMs actually look for to see if students are using it as a backup. I do have a genuine interest in D school however, and I feel I can do much better on my DAT than I could ever do on my MCAT. So I was getting a feel for the whole process.

There will prolly be preDents that will tear me up wanting to know what the process is like, and think that Im looking at this as a backup. I am not. Ive done Dental shadowing for about 60 hours, and Ive been constantly reading up on news and new research on dental practices. Im ready to take the next step.

 

[nonociceptors]

Busted!

I was waitlisted at DO school. I took a diagnostic DAT and scored a 16, which was much higher percentile than my actual MCAT by a lot. Ive been doing some research into the DAT, and the questions are so much easier than the MCAT, and I believe I could do much better on it.

Ive been eyeing dental school for quite some time, since really high school, but I was a horrible student my first 3 years of college and thought that my GPA of 3.0 couldn't cut it. Thinking the dental dream was over, I pursued DO school. Did GPA replacement for DO school and got all As the last 40 credit hours. 3.6c, 3.4s after 2 long years. Alas, D school doesn't take into account grade replacement, so my stats are around the 3.5c, 3.2s, but with a dramatic upward trend.

I know that D school is more competitive than DO school. I understand it is not a backup, but an entire task by itself to take on seriously and something that ADCOMs actually look for to see if students are using it as a backup. I do have a genuine interest in D school however, and I feel I can do much better on my DAT than I could ever do on my MCAT. So I was getting a feel for the whole process.

There will prolly be preDents that will tear me up wanting to know what the process is like, and think that Im looking at this as a backup. I am not. Ive done Dental shadowing for about 60 hours, and Ive been constantly reading up on news and new research on dental practices. Im ready to take the next step.

Then just study your ass off for the DAT so you can score better than 16. Hell, you'll probably need better than 19-20. Worry less about what people on SDN think of you and more about what potential interviewers are going to think about what you just wrote lol.

 

[JLT223]

Busted!

I was waitlisted at DO school. I took a diagnostic DAT and scored a 16, which was much higher percentile than my actual MCAT by a lot. Ive been doing some research into the DAT, and the questions are so much easier than the MCAT, and I believe I could do much better on it.

Ive been eyeing dental school for quite some time, since really high school, but I was a horrible student my first 3 years of college and thought that my GPA of 3.0 couldn't cut it. Thinking the dental dream was over, I pursued DO school. Did GPA replacement for DO school and got all As the last 40 credit hours. 3.6c, 3.4s after 2 long years. Alas, D school doesn't take into account grade replacement, so my stats are around the 3.5c, 3.2s, but with a dramatic upward trend.

I know that D school is more competitive than DO school. I understand it is not a backup, but an entire task by itself to take on seriously and something that ADCOMs actually look for to see if students are using it as a backup. I do have a genuine interest in D school however, and I feel I can do much better on my DAT than I could ever do on my MCAT. So I was getting a feel for the whole process.

There will prolly be preDents that will tear me up wanting to know what the process is like, and think that Im looking at this as a backup. I am not. Ive done Dental shadowing for about 60 hours, and Ive been constantly reading up on news and new research on dental practices. Im ready to take the next step.

You're not alone. I took the mcat as well when I was considering medical school. My heart wasn't into it and I bombed. Started to soul search and realized I wanted to be a dentist all along. Things don't always work out how we think they will. If you want this, just study hard.

 

[PocketRocket]

gpa and dat don't really mean much other than the fact that you're good at test taking and schools know that

 

[hellofuturedentists]

Busted!

I was waitlisted at DO school. I took a diagnostic DAT and scored a 16, which was much higher percentile than my actual MCAT by a lot. Ive been doing some research into the DAT, and the questions are so much easier than the MCAT, and I believe I could do much better on it.

Ive been eyeing dental school for quite some time, since really high school, but I was a horrible student my first 3 years of college and thought that my GPA of 3.0 couldn't cut it. Thinking the dental dream was over, I pursued DO school. Did GPA replacement for DO school and got all As the last 40 credit hours. 3.6c, 3.4s after 2 long years. Alas, D school doesn't take into account grade replacement, so my stats are around the 3.5c, 3.2s, but with a dramatic upward trend.

I know that D school is more competitive than DO school. I understand it is not a backup, but an entire task by itself to take on seriously and something that ADCOMs actually look for to see if students are using it as a backup. I do have a genuine interest in D school however, and I feel I can do much better on my DAT than I could ever do on my MCAT. So I was getting a feel for the whole process.

There will prolly be preDents that will tear me up wanting to know what the process is like, and think that Im looking at this as a backup. I am not. Ive done Dental shadowing for about 60 hours, and Ive been constantly reading up on news and new research on dental practices. Im ready to take the next step.

It's good you're not just using dental as a backup. Just as a warning though, a 16 is really not a good score at all....that's also about what I got on my diagnostic DAT without having taking biology in about 3 years. You're going to have to study a lot and hope to get at least a 20 or 21 probably on all the sciences. My point wasn't that you don't know about the dental field, it was that it takes more than stats alone to get accepted. And even with good shadowing, ECs, PS, and LoR, you still might not be offered interviews to schools that have stats near yours. I wish you luck though.

 

[738177]

Busted!

I was waitlisted at DO school. I took a diagnostic DAT and scored a 16, which was much higher percentile than my actual MCAT by a lot. Ive been doing some research into the DAT, and the questions are so much easier than the MCAT, and I believe I could do much better on it.

Ive been eyeing dental school for quite some time, since really high school, but I was a horrible student my first 3 years of college and thought that my GPA of 3.0 couldn't cut it. Thinking the dental dream was over, I pursued DO school. Did GPA replacement for DO school and got all As the last 40 credit hours. 3.6c, 3.4s after 2 long years. Alas, D school doesn't take into account grade replacement, so my stats are around the 3.5c, 3.2s, but with a dramatic upward trend.

I know that D school is more competitive than DO school. I understand it is not a backup, but an entire task by itself to take on seriously and something that ADCOMs actually look for to see if students are using it as a backup. I do have a genuine interest in D school however, and I feel I can do much better on my DAT than I could ever do on my MCAT. So I was getting a feel for the whole process.

There will prolly be preDents that will tear me up wanting to know what the process is like, and think that Im looking at this as a backup. I am not. Ive done Dental shadowing for about 60 hours, and Ive been constantly reading up on news and new research on dental practices. Im ready to take the next step.

I've seen you post about how you work in a Pharmacy, applying to Podiatry schools and thinking about Optometry school.
I think it's fine to explore what health career to dive into etc. but i'd choose one sooner than later. It's just gonna be better for your sanity in the long run. Yes the DAT is significantly easier than the MCAT, but i wouldn't choose a profession because it's admission test was easier.

 

[GypsyHummus]

You're not alone. I took the mcat as well when I was considering medical school. My heart wasn't into it and I bombed. Started to soul search and realized I wanted to be a dentist all along. Things don't always work out how we think they will. If you want this, just study hard.

Thanks for the kind words.

Dentistry is a great profession. It is one of the few where you can actually make a difference in the health of a person's life. To be a part of the profession would be an honor, and I hope to see you on the other side.

It's good you're not just using dental as a backup. Just as a warning though, a 16 is really not a good score at all....that's also about what I got on my diagnostic DAT without having taking biology in about 3 years. You're going to have to study a lot and hope to get at least a 20 or 21 probably on all the sciences. My point wasn't that you don't know about the dental field, it was that it takes more than stats alone to get accepted. And even with good shadowing, ECs, PS, and LoR, you still might not be offered interviews to schools that have stats near yours. I wish you luck though.

Thanks for the advice. I took the diagnostic DAT without any prep at all (just Organic) and got a 16. I plan on studying the whole summer and taking the beast sometime in September. I want to take a gap year to do dental lab work before I apply, and incase the DAT goes south. Would be looking at entering class of 2018. Do you think with my GPA, a 20 would suffice? Non trad stuck in a dead end job, so I have the motivation to succeed. I know what the real world is like.

I've seen you post about how you work in a Pharmacy, applying to Podiatry schools and thinking about Optometry school.
I think it's fine to explore what health career to dive into etc. but i'd choose one sooner than later. It's just gonna be better for your sanity in the long run. Yes the DAT is significantly easier than the MCAT, but i wouldn't choose a profession because it's admission test was easier.

Like Ive said, i have done extensive research, shadowing, and looking into what insurance looks like for all the healthcare fields. Dentistry seems to suite my style; get to release people of their tooth pain, make a ton of money, much lower hours than surgeons, not as long of schooling, and get to feel good about what you do at the end of the day. Really is a top notch profession, and would be a privilege to be one.

And it seems like the representing organization isn't about to let the government do a hostile takeover of their profession. the AMA is basically saying "Here, we will be subservient to the needs of the political elite." It is disgusting.

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

Thanks for the kind words.

Dentistry is a great profession. It is one of the few where you can actually make a difference in the health of a person's life. To be a part of the profession would be an honor, and I hope to see you on the other side.



Thanks for the advice. I took the diagnostic DAT without any prep at all (just Organic) and got a 16. I plan on studying the whole summer and taking the beast sometime in September. I want to take a gap year to do dental lab work before I apply, and incase the DAT goes south. Would be looking at entering class of 2018. Do you think with my GPA, a 20 would suffice? Non trad stuck in a dead end job, so I have the motivation to succeed. I know what the real world is like.



Like Ive said, i have done extensive research, shadowing, and looking into what insurance looks like for all the healthcare fields. Dentistry seems to suite my style; get to release people of their tooth pain, make a ton of money, much lower hours than surgeons, not as long of schooling, and get to feel good about what you do at the end of the day. Really is a top notch profession, and would be a privilege to be one.

And it seems like the representing organization isn't about to let the government do a hostile takeover of their profession. the AMA is basically saying "Here, we will be subservient to the needs of the political elite." It is disgusting.

People might give you a flak for choosing dentistry as a back up after not doing so hot on MCAT, but that's life. People have to make choices or otherwise, they will be stuck where they are forever wishing they had made the decision earlier. When I didn't get into D-school last year, I thought about PA, AA, CRNA, BSN, perfusion, and even pharmacy (knowing how bad the job market is, or so I heard). Stick with the plan now and study hard. DAT is definitely conquerable with 3~4 months of solid studying.

 

[schmoob]

Be careful with diagnostic tests like Kaplan, they will give you a low score on purpose just to make you feel that you NEED their service. They are crap.
If you want to REALLY want to test yourself to see where you stand, get the 2007 or 2009 DAT and take the exam under simulated conditions.
To prepare, you absolutely MUST use the materials proven to prepare you. It's in tons of threads, but to sum it up its Chads videos (coursesaver), Destroyer, DAT Bootcamp, and feralis bio notes. I've also seen there are ty jacobs notes and they are incredibly comprehensive as well, and more broad. Use the proven resources, prepare, and kill it.
Also I know it's a difficult time because you are trying to choose a path that is realistic and will make you happy, but whatever you decide, go for it. Gotta **** or get off the pot my friend.

Also, use the search function for your dental questions, use the guide created by @Scumbag_Steve and if there are things that have not been addressed, then go ahead and ask. I know I'm the pot calling the kettle black here, but I've looked through some of the premed threads and I've noticed that for the most part based on what I've seen, predents TEND to be less judgemental.

 

[hellofuturedentists]

Thanks for the kind words.

Dentistry is a great profession. It is one of the few where you can actually make a difference in the health of a person's life. To be a part of the profession would be an honor, and I hope to see you on the other side.



Thanks for the advice. I took the diagnostic DAT without any prep at all (just Organic) and got a 16. I plan on studying the whole summer and taking the beast sometime in September. I want to take a gap year to do dental lab work before I apply, and incase the DAT goes south. Would be looking at entering class of 2018. Do you think with my GPA, a 20 would suffice? Non trad stuck in a dead end job, so I have the motivation to succeed. I know what the real world is like.



Like Ive said, i have done extensive research, shadowing, and looking into what insurance looks like for all the healthcare fields. Dentistry seems to suite my style; get to release people of their tooth pain, make a ton of money, much lower hours than surgeons, not as long of schooling, and get to feel good about what you do at the end of the day. Really is a top notch profession, and would be a privilege to be one.

And it seems like the representing organization isn't about to let the government do a hostile takeover of their profession. the AMA is basically saying "Here, we will be subservient to the needs of the political elite." It is disgusting.

Not sure exactly what score you'd want. Obviously, the higher the better lol but a 20 is about average for matriculants. Since you sGPA is on the low side, if you get high science scores on the DAT, schools will have more confidence that you know your stuff. It also depends what schools you're looking at.

 

[738177]

Like Ive said, i have done extensive research, shadowing, and looking into what insurance looks like for all the healthcare fields. Dentistry seems to suite my style; get to release people of their tooth pain, make a ton of money, much lower hours than surgeons, not as long of schooling, and get to feel good about what you do at the end of the day. Really is a top notch profession, and would be a privilege to be one.

And it seems like the representing organization isn't about to let the government do a hostile takeover of their profession. the AMA is basically saying "Here, we will be subservient to the needs of the political elite." It is disgusting.

And that's great. My intention wasn't to "out" you. It was just to tell you that it'll be really hard to keep both DO and Dental option open, as opposed to say having Pharmacy as a backup. You know what i mean.
I took the MCAT before to make my Asian parents happy (got a 27). It's not a fun test.
Study hard for a couple of months and aim for 30's on every section of the DAT. Work toward the highest score possible. I think that's a better approach than aiming for 20+.

 

[schmoob]

And that's great. My intention wasn't to "out" you. It was just to tell you that it'll be really hard to keep both DO and Dental option open, as opposed to say having Pharmacy as a backup. You know what i mean.
I took the MCAT before to make my Asian parents happy (got a 27). It's not a fun test.
Study hard for a couple of months and aim for 30's on every section of the DAT. Work toward the highest score possible. I think that's a better approach than aiming for 20+.

I respectfully disagree. Although aiming for 30 is a great approach for achieving high scores, there is a psychological aspect involved. Goals need to be realistic, otherwise anxiety sets in. If you're nowhere near a 30 during practice, it can be very discouraging.
My opinion, set small goals. Achieving the small goals gives confidence to conquer the next hurdle. It really is a marathon, not a sprint.
Since I'm on the marathon metaphor, think of it as conquering the race 1 mile at a time instead of a gigantic 26 mile obstacle.

 

[738177]

I respectfully disagree. Although aiming for 30 is a great approach for achieving high scores, there is a psychological aspect involved. Goals need to be realistic, otherwise anxiety sets in. If you're nowhere near a 30 during practice, it can be very discouraging.
My opinion, set small goals. Achieving the small goals gives confidence to conquer the next hurdle. It really is a marathon, not a sprint.
Since I'm on the marathon metaphor, think of it as conquering the race 1 mile at a time instead of a gigantic 26 mile obstacle.

I guess this is personality dependent and how you handle it. I need that alarm in my head saying "you've got more work to do" so i'm motivated to try harder. But i can see how that can be discouraging and anxiety-inducing to some.

 

[GypsyHummus]

And that's great. My intention wasn't to "out" you. It was just to tell you that it'll be really hard to keep both DO and Dental option open, as opposed to say having Pharmacy as a backup. You know what i mean.
I took the MCAT before to make my Asian parents happy (got a 27). It's not a fun test.
Study hard for a couple of months and aim for 30's on every section of the DAT. Work toward the highest score possible. I think that's a better approach than aiming for 20+.

Lol, there is always pharmacy school.

Did you know that there is a fill in the blank question section on the PCAT?

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

Lol, there is always pharmacy school.

Did you know that there is a fill in the blank question section on the PCAT?

Even though I considered it as a back up, I think pharmacy school should be our last resort. Their job outlook isn't that great I heard.

 

[doc toothache]

You are highly qualified. as far as my understanding, a 24 DAT is really great.
Thats what doesn't make sense to me. For med schools, as long as you don't come across as a sociopath, if you have a 510MCAT and 3.6 GPA, you are virtually garenteed somewhere. Not so much for dental school it seems.
Did you feel as if the schools you were waitlisted at had different interview experiences? For example, your waitlist at NOVA, your interview was horrendous, and you interview at LECOM was great?

You need to go out more often since you clearly are not in tune with med school admissions. For 2013-2014 through 2015-2016 , 9.6% of medical school applicants with MCAT of 39-45 and gpa of 3.80-4.00 do not gain an acceptance to any of the 140+/- medical schools. Dental school admissions follow a similar pattern.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

You need to go out more often since you clearly are not in tune with med school admissions. For 2013-2014 through 2015-2016 , 9.6% of medical school applicants with MCAT of 39-45 and gpa of 3.80-4.00 do not gain an acceptance to any of the 140+/- medical schools. Dental school admissions follow a similar pattern.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

that's brutal. They must have no people skil whatsoever to get rejected with those stats.

 

[JLT223]

that's brutal. They must have no people skil whatsoever to get rejected with those stats.

Or they just studied 24/7 and have nothing else on their app. Probably a mix of both.

 

[doc toothache]

that's brutal. They must have no people skil whatsoever to get rejected with those stats.

Is it?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/rejections-the-why-part-ii.1133835/

 

[Cello]

While I agree that schools definitely look at applications holistically for good reason, I don't know if applicant: acceptance ratios are the best indicators of competitiveness.

For instance, you mentioned ASDOH. It is possible that many, many, many people look at schools by average DAT and GPA and choose ones with averages below their stats as "safety school", even thought they don't really exist for dental as they do for undergrad. Also, there is a preposterously large number of people who apply to dental school each year without any business doing so, and these sitting ducks who are not qualified at any school could gravitate towards schools with lower averages because they're "within reach", even though they don't have the commitment to community service or the humility to fit the mission of a school like ASDOH.

Just food for thought.

Edit: @GypsyHummus because I feel like this explanation is sort of relevant to your question a little bit

If that were true, then you would expect all schools with GPA / DAT stats similar to ASDOH to have roughly the same number of applicants. That is not the case. In fact, I believe ASDOH is #2 for most applications in the nation.

Even though I considered it as a back up, I think pharmacy school should be our last resort. Their job outlook isn't that great I heard.

Pharmacy and dentistry are two entirely different career fields. You had might as well have engineering or law school as a back up.

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

If that were true, then you would expect all schools with GPA / DAT stats similar to ASDOH to have roughly the same number of applicants. That is not the case. In fact, I believe ASDOH is #2 for most applications in the nation.



Pharmacy and dentistry are two entirely different career fields. You had might as well have engineering or law school as a back up.

engineering is a little far-fetched, but pharmacy, not so much. It is entirely two different career, but requires similar pre-reqs.
It's no uncommon for pre-med/dent to have pre-pharm or pre-opt or pre-pod as back up plans.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

I suggest anyone to consider pharmacy as a back up to make a field trip to Pre Pharm SDN or Pharmacy SDN.
The graduated pharmacists in big city are working per diem (day by day with short notice before hand) and 24hrs/week is a full time pharmacy job. there are 150 pharmacy schools with "small class size" of 200 students for each school, a lot of schools have 240 students.

the pharmacy saturation is not at its peak at and is only getting there. The bad news is that 4 big pharmacy chains now become only 2 (walgreen buys riteaid, and target buys walmart or smth)

optometry scope of practice is too limited with such high debt burden of 200k.

I think it is better to become an RN or PA than engineers, podiatry, optometry or worst of worst, pharmacy and law. A lot of PA and RN schools open but at least there is still a lot of room in the market for it. and the amount of PA and RN each hospital needs can provide the stable demand for the market.

 

[JLT223]

Pharm is the biggest scam there is right now lol

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

Pharm is the biggest scam there is right now lol

I almost considered taking the dang PCAT when I didn't hear anything until I got touro and lecom acceptance. Got bless me....

 

[Cello]

My point is, dentistry is very different from other healthcare careers. You are correct, engineering is completely different from dentistry. Nursing is also completely different from dentistry. What do nursing and dentistry have in common? They are both healthcare related. But then, so is biomedical engineering.

I don't understand this mindset that all healthcare careers are interchangeable.

You don't treat patients as a pharmacist. You don't really work with your hands as a pharmacist. You almost certainly won't run your own business as a pharmacist as things are right now. About the only two things that pharmacists have in common with dentists is that they both work in healthcare and they are both doctors.

 

[1passbbsSHAVE]

My point is, dentistry is very different from other healthcare careers. You are correct, engineering is completely different from dentistry. Nursing is also completely different from dentistry. What do nursing and dentistry have in common? They are both healthcare related. But then, so is biomedical engineering.

I don't understand this mindset that all healthcare careers are interchangeable.

You don't treat patients as a pharmacist. You don't really work with your hands as a pharmacist. You almost certainly won't run your own business as a pharmacist as things are right now. About the only two things that pharmacists have in common with dentists is that they both work in healthcare and they are both doctors.

I really don't see the point of arguing, but for the sake of finishing it, noone said that dentistry is interchangeable with anything. We were just talking about back up plans in case dental school doesn't pan out as planned. Sure it would be nice to get in on first or second try, but what about people who tried 4~5 times and still didn't get in? Pharmacy does not treat/care for patient directly, but they are still in healthcare field. I am not an expert, but I believe there are PharmD's that work in the hospital and consult with doctors regarding what to prescribe and what not.

Following your dream is great, but when you've done it for so long, there comes a time that you have to make a realistic choice. I'v seen plenty of RN's (I work in the OR) who did biology degrees and thought about medical school/dental school, but they thought they weren't cut out for it, so changed to nursing because it was easier to get in. As we live life, we need to make choices. Some of them we will regret, and some we will not.

 

[Pro-Dentite19]

So Im looking at applying to dental schools, and I have around a 3.4, 3.2 cumulative and science GPA. I was worried about my science GPA, so I called some dental schools to see where I fall on the averages and I must say, I am really surprised. I thought most D schools had averages in the 3.6 area, but places like AT Still and Western have GPAs in the 3.2 range, cumulative and science. I even called one of the institutions who had averages in the 3.5 range and they said that a 3.2 science would be fine with a good DAT score in the 19-20 range.

That means for schools with averages of 3.2, there are people who have 3.5s as well as people who have 3.0 or even lower.

What I found weird is that people still have trouble getting accepted on this forum with above average numbers. Why is it, with lower GPA schools are people not getting interviews and subsequently, accepted? I commonly see people getting lots of interview, but very rarely acceptances, even multiple waitlists. Please know that i am not asking to be grating, I genuinely want to know how dental school can be so competitive with such low GPA averages and why people are having so much trouble. It doesn't make mathematical sense to me

Thanks!

I think the difficult part is acing the interview day to be honest. I was lucky because interviewing and interpersonal skills were actually my strengths, while the academics were good but far from outstanding (3.5 oGPA/3.99 sGPA/21AA/21PAT).

If you yourself are great interacting with people then you might only be considering the stats side of the admissions process. I participate in interview days and I see the same issues pop up all of the time. Candidates with near perfect metrics either can't hold a conversation, have so much anxiety that they cannot show their true personalities, or simply cannot find a way to connect with an interviewer.

 

[schmoob]

I think the difficult part is acing the interview day to be honest. I was lucky because interviewing and interpersonal skills were actually my strengths, while the academics were good but far from outstanding (3.5 oGPA/3.99 sGPA/21AA/21PAT).

If you yourself are great interacting with people then you might only be considering the stats side of the admissions process. I participate in interview days and I see the same issues pop up all of the time. Candidates with near perfect metrics either can't hold a conversation, have so much anxiety that they cannot show their true personalities, or simply cannot find a way to connect with an interviewer.

3.99sGPA far from outstanding? That's an understatement...
Hey everyone! Come check out this bozo! Couldn't even get one measly point!

I kid. That is actually incredibly outstanding.

You need to go out more often since you clearly are not in tune with med school admissions. For 2013-2014 through 2015-2016 , 9.6% of medical school applicants with MCAT of 39-45 and gpa of 3.80-4.00 do not gain an acceptance to any of the 140+/- medical schools. Dental school admissions follow a similar pattern.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

He did say virtually. I would say 90.4% would qualify as virtually guaranteed....

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

I think the difficult part is acing the interview day to be honest. I was lucky because interviewing and interpersonal skills were actually my strengths, while the academics were good but far from outstanding (3.5 oGPA/3.99 sGPA/21AA/21PAT).

If you yourself are great interacting with people then you might only be considering the stats side of the admissions process. I participate in interview days and I see the same issues pop up all of the time. Candidates with near perfect metrics either can't hold a conversation, have so much anxiety that they cannot show their true personalities, or simply cannot find a way to connect with an interviewer.

3.99sGPA is "outstanding" if you ask me. I definitely agree that holding a conversation, showing lack of (or controlling) anxiety in a stressful situation is immensely important. Connecting with the interviewer is probably #1 (easier said than done when considering all the different combinations of personalities out there--influenced by your mood that day and so many other factors).