Why is it so hard for DO schools to get rotation spots?

[Peach Newport]

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Not all MD schools have their OWN hospitals, but they all have great hospital affiliations that take their students for rotations, so why do DO schools need to pay for (usually subpar) rotation spots, even when there are no competing MD schools in the area?

 

[DrBowtie]

Not all MD schools have their OWN hospitals, but they all have great hospital affiliations that take their students for rotations, so why do DO schools need to pay for (usually subpar) rotation spots, even when there are no competing MD schools in the area?

Couple things.
1. There are a limited number of hospitals with size sufficient to support a medical school. Any new school is usually going to be cobbling together two or more smaller hospitals to meet the needs.

2. Developing a good rotation site takes money towards faculty development and incentivize education. It also costs money to have a boots on the ground medical education staff to help faculty and students. This investment takes time to mature into a good site.

3. Choice of school location for MD schools usually follows identification of a sufficient sized hospital for the class size first rather than identification of a location followed by identification of hospital sites to handle the class size that we've seen with some newer DO schools.

 

[Peach Newport]

Couple things.
1. There are a limited number of hospitals with size sufficient to support a medical school. Any new school is usually going to be cobbling together two or more smaller hospitals to meet the needs.

2. Developing a good rotation site takes money towards faculty development and incentivize education. It also costs money to have a boots on the ground medical education staff to help faculty and students. This investment takes time to mature into a good site.

3. Choice of school location for MD schools usually follows identification of a sufficient sized hospital for the class size first rather than identification of a location followed by identification of hospital sites to handle the class size that we've seen with some newer DO schools.

So here's what I think you're saying:

If I want to establish a new DO school with good rotations, I can totally do it, but I actually need to put the time, effort, research, and money into it, and unfortunately, the architects of the latest crop of DO schools have put their priorities elsewhere.

 

[Goro]

They're unwilling to pay for them!!!!

When my school bit the bullet and started doing this, the quality of our clinical years went up, and our grads started getting into better, more competitive ACGME residencies!

Not all MD schools have their OWN hospitals, but they all have great hospital affiliations that take their students for rotations, so why do DO schools need to pay for (usually subpar) rotation spots, even when there are no competing MD schools in the area?

 

[Goro]

You got it!!!!

So here's what I think you're saying:

If I want to establish a new DO school with good rotations, I can totally do it, but I actually need to put the time, effort, research, and money into it, and unfortunately, the architects of the latest crop of DO schools have put their priorities elsewhere.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

They're unwilling to pay for them!!!!

When my school bit the bullet and started doing this, the quality of our clinical years went up, and our grads started getting into better, more competitive ACGME residencies!

How can we as applicants determine which schools actually pay for rotation spots?

 

[Mjolner]

How can we as applicants determine which schools actually pay for rotation spots?

I think they all pay for them, but it's how much you pay.

I mean I don't pay nearly as much for my beater of a car as my classmates (well I assume my classmate's parents) pay for their BMWs. And let me tell you, the difference is quality is instantly noticeable.


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[DrBowtie]

How can we as applicants determine which schools actually pay for rotation spots?

It's not just pay vs no pay vs how much. It is time and monetary investment into a site for curriculum development, faculty development via CME and training, academic support staff to handle administrative scheduling, testing etc.

Obviously if you have a single large site or a few sites in a single location this will be easier to do.

 

[Goro]

Best thing to do is inquire in the school-specific threads as to the quality of clinical years.

How can we as applicants determine which schools actually pay for rotation spots?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Realistically the amount of established good rotation sites has not really expanded much in a long time. All that do currently exist are under the guard of established DO schools who are trying to ensure that their students have opportunities to train well and properly. As such a lot of it also now comes into being a battle of cash, where DO schools v.s DO schools v.s Carib schools battle for hospital sites.

I mean my school has a very strong backbone of rotations. But even we lost one of our sites due to the hospital being given an exuberant amount of money for rotations. And much of the same issue arises when new DO schools come up. We end up stretching thin the amount of good rotations we have.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You not only have to consider the greed of DO schools to paying clinical sites, but you must factor the fact that MD schools don't open with 200 kids in a class. It's honestly ridiculous that so many students are in a single class.

 

[Doggowar7]

They're unwilling to pay for them!!!!

When my school bit the bullet and started doing this, the quality of our clinical years went up, and our grads started getting into better, more competitive ACGME residencies!

KCUMB?

 

[Goro]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to reject you.

KCUMB?

 

[ortnakas]

How can we as applicants determine which schools actually pay for rotation spots?

Also realize that quality can vary within schools as much as it does between them. My school doesn't pay and some of our sites are fantastic, others are crappy. I've also run into students from other schools at sites that end up getting shared, so there's more overlap than you might expect. I'm currently doing an elective at an affiliate of LECOM that is apparently a core site for OUHCOM, DMUCOM and I think KCUCOM.

 

[WorldChanger36]

The money. Most DO schools don't pay much if anything. I mean 500 bucks, a used magnet and dried out chewed gum shaped like a bust of Capt Picard doesn't exactly bring all the docs to the yard.

 

[cabinbuilder]

They're unwilling to pay for them!!!!

When my school bit the bullet and started doing this, the quality of our clinical years went up, and our grads started getting into better, more competitive ACGME residencies!

Agree, DO schools have this notion that DOs should teach DOs for the greater good of the profession, continuing the DO essence, etc. but do not offer any monetary compensation, only CME credit.

 

[Mjolner]

Agree, DO schools have this notion that DOs should teach DOs for the greater good of the profession, continuing the DO essence, etc. but do not offer any monetary compensation, only CME credit.

Or that just sounds nicer for them to say....


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[gamerEMdoc]

Paid? Hell, I wish we were paid. We teach, give housing, and feed medical students for LECOM and many other DO schools and get nothing in return. You can't even advance up the academic ladder despite your academic credentials, your stuck as "adjunct clinical faculty" or whatever they call it.

DO schools do little to support the hospitals they send there students to. Whereas allopathic schools, when attached to a large University based medical center, help fund the academic time of the faculty and provide faculty advancement. The DO world is so far behind on this its a shame.

 

[Wiggly Tuff Da Ruff]

Paid? Hell, I wish we were paid. We teach, give housing, and feed medical students for LECOM and many other DO schools and get nothing in return. You can't even advance up the academic ladder despite your academic credentials, your stuck as "adjunct clinical faculty" or whatever they call it.

DO schools do little to support the hospitals they send there students to. Whereas allopathic schools, when attached to a large University based medical center, help fund the academic time of the faculty and provide faculty advancement. The DO world is so far behind on this its a shame.

Not all DO schools are like that though, hopefully. MSUCOM is very well established from what I have read, and so are* ACOM's sites.