Why is it that URM applicants...

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sharkbyte

sharkbyte

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.... are so awesome? Because you know what, we're all awesome!

I read through a large volume of the posts in the most recent URM flame war that's been going on and it made me shake my head.

Work hard. Follow your dreams. Respect each and every person you meet (the ones deserving respect, at least). Take care of yourself while still helping others.

IF YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES IN MCAT AND GPA AMONG VARIOUS RACES IN THOSE AAMC TABLES, YOU ARE SWEATING THE SMALL STUFF.

If you work hard, approach the application process with motivation and confidence, and understand what you want to do with your life and why you want to do it, you will achieve your goals.

At the end of the day, regardless of race, skin color, sexual orientation, whatever: Those who truly want to be doctors and put in the proper effort, will be doctors. And those who don't put in the proper effort and believe it is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE, to be a doctor, will not become doctors.

Enjoy the rest of the week.
 
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
 
taffer said:
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
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No
 
taffer said:
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
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No, because I don't know what factors the adcom committee was considering, nor what they are looking for in a candidate. It is a much more complex job than pick the person with the highest mcat/gpa and most amount of volunteer experiences, schools tried that in the past and ended up graduating robotic doctors that patients didn't like because they couldn't relate and empathize with them. Plus there are so many schools out there, and the vast majority don't have classes filled with a large number of URM applicants, I am not going to cry about losing out on the very last seat open in that class. If it really came down to me and that URM for the last seat, I obviously wasn't as strong of a candidate for that class as I would hope or else I would've been considered for any of those other 150-200 slots in that class that were filled with people who were obviously more qualified and better suited for that school than me.
 
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
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First of all, I think something needs to be cleared up - I don't think medical schools make their decisions by picking and finding two people for each spot and then picking one over the other. I think every pre-med subconsciously believes this. I did too and in fact I attended a Q&A panel with 3-4 deans of admissions and asked one of them "How do you distinguish between two people who are more or less equally competitive for the same spot?" One of the deans IMMEDIATELY told me that that is not how medical school admissions work, and the three other deans agreed. Every application is considered and the admissions committees choose the applicants they believe to be the best fit for their school. It's not an either-or thing.

Second, even if this WERE the way admissions worked - this scenario is impractical. There is no way I, you, or any applicant is going to know the details of why he or she was rejected, let alone why he/she was not chosen over another.
 
taffer said:
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
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A little salty? Yes. It's happened to me too even though I'm a minority anywhere I go and dealt with discrimination. I do try to understand the bitterness because I imagine what URMs dealt with and felt when the preference was for ORMs. But to dwell on it and constantly bitch about it on these forums like that solves or changes anything? No one ever even provides ideas or alternatives so honestly what's the point of constantly complaining about it. These threads appear weekly and never provide any real insight or helpful discussion. I just read them to try to get an idea of how others are viewing this and why. In all honesty though get over it, move on with your life. If it really bites you in the ass that much, do something about it besides whining.
 
Wow this thread is sooo original! <3 I can't imagine where this will go. You know that you're doing a terrible job if you're trying to end bickering right?

0/10
 
sharkbyte said:
First of all, I think something needs to be cleared up - I don't think medical schools make their decisions by picking and finding two people for each spot and then picking one over the other. I think every pre-med subconsciously believes this. I did too and in fact I attended a Q&A panel with 3-4 deans of admissions and asked one of them "How do you distinguish between two people who are more or less equally competitive for the same spot?" One of the deans IMMEDIATELY told me that that is not how medical school admissions work, and the three other deans agreed. Every application is considered and the admissions committees choose the applicants they believe to be the best fit for their school. It's not an either-or thing.

Second, even if this WERE the way admissions worked - this scenario is impractical. There is no way I, you, or any applicant is going to know the details of why he or she was rejected, let alone why he/she was not chosen over another.
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This.

Until you are on the other side of the table, you have absolutely no idea what goes into an admissions decision.
 
I'm not saying one side is right or wrong. However, if everybody would empathize a little bit with the other viewpoint maybe they would understand why people perceive it the way they do. The scenario I gave is what I imagine a lot of non-URM think when it comes to this subject. Honestly, if I was on the side that appears to benefit I most likely would not have a problem with it. It's good to see that a few people honestly answered "No, I can't say I wouldn't be a little salty about it". Breaking common ground. : )
 
I may have to unwatch this thread, because I can imagine someone will come in here trying to continue a debate which is still on-going in another post from last weekend lol my point was there's many things to complain about, doesn't mean you should do it consistently, especially if you're doing nothing productive about it.
 
Fabio Lanzoni said:
Wow this thread is sooo original! <3 I can't imagine where this will go. You know that you're doing a terrible job if you're trying to end bickering right?

0/10
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I thought it was kinda funny, I did expect the usual complaint or fake "concern about the ethics" lol you're right in that it's not going to change anything though
 
lmn said:
But that 1 African American applicant took my seat at my top choice!!! I need to blame him/her for blocking my dreams despite the fact that I wasn't able to earn my way into any one of the other 149 seats in the class....
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^+1239472. because it is of utmost importance that you TAKE that applicants seat, rather than taking one of the other 149 seats . :laugh:

sharkbyte said:
First of all, I think something needs to be cleared up - I don't think medical schools make their decisions by picking and finding two people for each spot and then picking one over the other. I think every pre-med subconsciously believes this. I did too and in fact I attended a Q&A panel with 3-4 deans of admissions and asked one of them "How do you distinguish between two people who are more or less equally competitive for the same spot?" One of the deans IMMEDIATELY told me that that is not how medical school admissions work, and the three other deans agreed. Every application is considered and the admissions committees choose the applicants they believe to be the best fit for their school. It's not an either-or thing.

Second, even if this WERE the way admissions worked - this scenario is impractical. There is no way I, you, or any applicant is going to know the details of why he or she was rejected, let alone why he/she was not chosen over another.
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YES. This is important. Many of us have this inclination of thinking that other people's success somehow takes away from our own success; and it is rather sad to see people buy into that lie.
 
lmn said:
But that 1 African American applicant took my seat at my top choice!!! I need to blame him/her for blocking my dreams despite the fact that I wasn't able to earn my way into any one of the other 149 seats in the class....
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I'm more concerned about the over-represented minorities. As an upper-middle class good-ole-white-boy they are squeezing us out!
 
sharkbyte said:
.... are so awesome? Because you know what, we're all awesome!

I read through a large volume of the posts in the most recent URM flame war that's been going on and it made me shake my head.

Work hard. Follow your dreams. Respect each and every person you meet (the ones deserving respect, at least). Take care of yourself while still helping others.

IF YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES IN MCAT AND GPA AMONG VARIOUS RACES IN THOSE AAMC TABLES, YOU ARE SWEATING THE SMALL STUFF.

If you work hard, approach the application process with motivation and confidence, and understand what you want to do with your life and why you want to do it, you will achieve your goals.

At the end of the day, regardless of race, skin color, sexual orientation, whatever: Those who truly want to be doctors and put in the proper effort, will be doctors. And those who don't put in the proper effort and believe it is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE, to be a doctor, will not become doctors.

Enjoy the rest of the week.
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dwight-schrute-celebration-jump.gif
 
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taffer said:
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
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Nope. Why the F do people still Bword about this? You say it like if medical schools are flooded with minorities. White, Asian, and South Asian people are still the majority that makes the student body in medical schools. I can tell you this most of the minorities who went to interviews this last cycle they will tell you that most of the time they were the only minority there for an interview.
 
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sharkbyte said:
.... are so awesome? Because you know what, we're all awesome!

I read through a large volume of the posts in the most recent URM flame war that's been going on and it made me shake my head.

Work hard. Follow your dreams. Respect each and every person you meet (the ones deserving respect, at least). Take care of yourself while still helping others.

IF YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES IN MCAT AND GPA AMONG VARIOUS RACES IN THOSE AAMC TABLES, YOU ARE SWEATING THE SMALL STUFF.

If you work hard, approach the application process with motivation and confidence, and understand what you want to do with your life and why you want to do it, you will achieve your goals.

At the end of the day, regardless of race, skin color, sexual orientation, whatever: Those who truly want to be doctors and put in the proper effort, will be doctors. And those who don't put in the proper effort and believe it is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE, to be a doctor, will not become doctors.

Enjoy the rest of the week.
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Because URMs get evaluated more subjectively than the average person, so 1-2 points difference on the mcat isn't enough to deny them of admissions prospects. If you ask me URMs are held to far fairer admission standards than the average person. At least they can compensate for a below average mcat and no i'm not saying that in a negative "OMG you're taking my slots kind of way". It's a good thing that someone is evaluated in a more subjective way which makes it more than a numbers game. Having to sacrifice 4+ years of hard work just because you scored a little lower than expected on the mcat is just depressing.
 
taffer said:
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
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I guess it's completely implausible that in the other 150-200 students there wasn't a single ORM or white person with objective stats lower than yours and beat you out. Nope it had to be to <10 minorities in there.

This is seriously laughable. If someone is salty by this reasoning it has less to do with logic and more to do with their attitude towards minorities as a whole.
 
UlahSnackbar said:
I agree...so many premeds on the forum are racist. They just want to complain about URMs taking their spots. It reminds me of the minutemen in AZ hating on Mexicans for taking their jobs.
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AA in med school applications is not perfect, but I do agree, it is not as bad as some non-URMs believe also. Most educated people would absolutely agree that it is detrimental in many circumstances.
 
taffer said:
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
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There's more to a candidate than test scores and grades. You can't say you are equal to or better than the other candidate in regard to these intangibles as they relate to the school's mission. And seriously, why would one think the one or two seats that go to URMs in a given class are the ones they will lose? Are they that insecure that they believe they can only barely scrape their way into the class? That they can't compete with the other 100+ ORM applicants and win?
 
We might as well mandate GPA and MCAT score tattoos upon acceptance to med school... This is really out of hand...
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It's because there are people here who will go to medical school and study and work alongside URMs who, in their opinion, are only there because of a "10 point MCAT boost" according to those darn AAMC tables.
 
sharkbyte said:
It's because there are people here who will go to medical school and study and work alongside URMs who, in their opinion, are only there because of a "10 point MCAT boost" according to those darn AAMC tables.
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I'm hoping this is merely a pre-med sentiment.
 
ichor said:
Okay say your friend lied on AMCAS

Salty now?


Posted using SDN Mobile
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Ya, I am salty about that because that is against the rules and dishonest. Its not against the rules or dishonest to be a darker skin tone.
 
taffer said:
Imagine this scenario: you and another person both work your asses off toward the same goal for several years, hoping to be selected for a position. You both put in the work and do the best you can. Whether or not you achieve this goal rests in the hands of a committee. You quantifiably measure better in multiple aspects over this other person while being equal in all other areas, yet they are chosen over you. Are you going to tell me you wouldn't be a bit salty about that?
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This scenario is unrealistic, and, if it ever even did happen, you wouldn't be sufficiently aware of it to be "a bit salty" about it.
 
Oh no! This thread should be filled with love! I, as the op of other flame war thread, feel guilty of this thread getting on fire
 
LMBLBM said:
Oh no! This thread should be filled with love! I, as the op of other flame war thread, feel guilty of this thread getting on fire
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Shut the hell up, bro. You knew exactly what you were doing.
 
Mad Jack said:
There's more to a candidate than test scores and grades. You can't say you are equal to or better than the other candidate in regard to these intangibles as they relate to the school's mission. And seriously, why would one think the one or two seats that go to URMs in a given class are the ones they will lose? Are they that insecure that they believe they can only barely scrape their way into the class? That they can't compete with the other 100+ ORM applicants and win?
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No, you can't. But slow down and put yourself in the shoes of an ORM with me for a minute. The only information you do have says that, on average, you need to perform better in multiple areas relative to certain candidates because you don't look a certain way. Well...That's discouraging. Guess what happens next? Your brain begins to ponder other possibilities. "If data says I need to do better on quantified, measurable standards, who's to say I don't need to go above and beyond in every other area, too?" Whether or not your poor, anxiety-filled brain has come to a truthful conclusion or not, it will always wonder (and nobody will ever know). And as the long, stressful, tiring process lingers on, this view becomes more and more solidified in your mind. Your mind then comes to a conclusion: "This process is unfair to somebody in my position."

It doesn't matter if there are hundreds or thousands of other spots. You only need one. And if data says that one or multiple spots are going to individuals that you appear to be more qualified than...Does that seem fair? Just? Not really. Does it make sense now? Thanks for empathizing, you can take your shoes off.

This is where I believe the angsty ORM camp is coming from. However, people on one side of an argument rarely care about nor try to understand the other's, which is why these threads always turn out the same way: ORMs being angry about the apparent system in place and URMs dumping on them saying they are making it up or better yet, that it is indeed that way and that's the way they like it.
 
taffer said:
No, you can't. But slow down and put yourself in the shoes of an ORM with me for a minute. The only information you do have says that, on average, you need to perform better in multiple areas relative to certain candidates because you don't look a certain way. Well...That's discouraging. Guess what happens next? Your brain begins to ponder other possibilities. "If data says I need to do better on quantified, measurable standards, who's to say I don't need to go above and beyond in every other area, too?" Whether or not your poor, anxiety-filled brain has come to a truthful conclusion or not, it will always wonder (and nobody will ever know). And as the long, stressful, tiring process lingers on, this view becomes more and more solidified in your mind. Your mind then comes to a conclusion: "This process is unfair to somebody in my position."

It doesn't matter if there are hundreds or thousands of other spots. You only need one. And if data says that one or multiple spots are going to individuals that you appear to be more qualified than...Does that seem fair? Just? Not really. Does it make sense now? Thanks for empathizing, you can take your shoes off.

This is where I believe the angsty ORM camp is coming from. However, people on one side of an argument rarely care about nor try to understand the other's, which is why these threads always turn out the same way: ORMs being angry about the apparent system in place and URMs dumping on them saying they are making it up or better yet, that it is indeed that way and that's the way they like it.
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I agree with you that ppl lack a lot of empathy. If ORM's suddenly became the URM and vice versa you can bet ppl would change their tune even if they claim they wouldn't. Would they voice their opinions as much? Maybe not, but I can bet for most ppl the resentful feelings would be there. Some ppl agree with the policy regardless if it benefits them or not so they have a hard time understanding why other ORM don't. Really everyone just needs to shut up and agree to disagree or like I said come up with a policy better than the one that's currently in place.
 
taffer said:
No, you can't. But slow down and put yourself in the shoes of an ORM with me for a minute. The only information you do have says that, on average, you need to perform better in multiple areas relative to certain candidates because you don't look a certain way. Well...That's discouraging. Guess what happens next? Your brain begins to ponder other possibilities. "If data says I need to do better on quantified, measurable standards, who's to say I don't need to go above and beyond in every other area, too?" Whether or not your poor, anxiety-filled brain has come to a truthful conclusion or not, it will always wonder (and nobody will ever know). And as the long, stressful, tiring process lingers on, this view becomes more and more solidified in your mind. Your mind then comes to a conclusion: "This process is unfair to somebody in my position."

It doesn't matter if there are hundreds or thousands of other spots. You only need one. And if data says that one or multiple spots are going to individuals that you appear to be more qualified than...Does that seem fair? Just? Not really. Does it make sense now? Thanks for empathizing, you can take your shoes off.

This is where I believe the angsty ORM camp is coming from. However, people on one side of an argument rarely care about nor try to understand the other's, which is why these threads always turn out the same way: ORMs being angry about the apparent system in place and URMs dumping on them saying they are making it up or better yet, that it is indeed that way and that's the way they like it.
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If it helps your psyche, just accept the idea that a handful of slots in the class will go to URMs for the good of society and that you're competing exclusively against your fellow white folk.
 
Also, I think people need to put behind them the idea that medical school admissions are a meritocracy where the primary factor for selection is how qualified you are.

As far as I can tell, it's not. Mostly because med schools have ten times as many well-qualified candidates as they do seats. We see adcoms on this very forum sayings things like "if we simply threw out every 3.7+/32+ I'd still have more than enough well-qualified candidates who will succeed in my school."

This extreme over-abundance of qualified candidates means that medical schools have the amazing ability to create an incoming class tailored to their exacting specifications. And one of the more important factors in tailoring this class is diversity.

It seems obvious to me that in terms of ethnic, racial, and socioeconomic background you are what you are. Given good but generally unremarkable stats and experiences, you're more or less competing for a spot against people who are more or less similar. URMs aren't taking slots from you, because the less "qualified" URMs aren't really competing for those spots.
 
I just wonder, if everyone was of the same skin color by some odd act of nature, then it'll just come down to mere MCAT/GPA scores, and then the added goods (ECS, LORS, volunteer, etc.). There'd still be people getting beaten by other people. Just now there is no indication of race.

And I guess this type of scenario would hold true if all med schools had race-blind admissions. If med schools decided just not to report what race/ethnicity the person is who gets into med school, what then? If you were one of the applicants deemed "competitive" how would you go about knowing what went wrong in your application? Unless you have very unique experiences that not many med school applicants will have, it'll be tough to figure out what edged you out if you had similar stats, down to even the ecs and volunteer hours.

All in all, let's all just be happy that we're alive, and we have the capabilities to even pursue becoming doctors. Not that many other people here and around the world have the privilege to pursue such a dream. We're all awesome. :highfive:
 
altitudinarian said:
I just wonder, if everyone was of the same skin color by some odd act of nature, then it'll just come down to mere MCAT/GPA scores, and then the added goods (ECS, LORS, volunteer, etc.). There'd still be people getting beaten by other people. Just now there is no indication of race.

And I guess this type of scenario would hold true if all med schools had race-blind admissions. If med schools decided just not to report what race/ethnicity the person is who gets into med school, what then?

All in all, let's all just be happy that we're alive, and we have the capabilities to even pursue becoming doctors. Not that many other people here and around the world have the privilege to pursue such a dream. We're all awesome. :highfive:
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I think it's human nature to delineate people based on physical characteristics. If there were no skin color differences, it would be light eyes/dark eyes (apologies to Sanderson). Or hair color. Or wrist size. There will always be something to distinguish us vs them.

That's a good post though. I'm just a terrible cynic when it comes to people and their ability to be jerks.
 
Ah. That's true. What you say reminds me of the propaganda Germany put out right before the extermination of Jews and other groups. They made Jews out to be evil and unclean through pointing out eyes, hair, nose and forehead size. Or even during the genocide in Rwanda, when how to do identify a Tutsi from a Hutu.

Rather, just all propaganda that has been made towards any group that is disliked... Sigh.
 
At least one person brought this up in the other thread- but what about super awesome state schools that have slightly lower median MCAT scores (ie below 33)? UNC, U Wash, OHSU, UC Davis, UC Irvine, Iowa and UAB are examples. I don't see threads that antagonize residents of those states.
 
Cyberdyne 101 said:
At least one person brought this up in the other thread- but what about super awesome state schools that have slightly lower median MCAT scores (ie below 33)? UNC, U Wash, OHSU, UC Davis, UC Irvine, Iowa and UAB are examples. I don't see threads that antagonize residents of those states.
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This isn't that good of an analogy. Residents of those states pay taxes with the intent that the AMCs and graduating MDs of those medical schools will provide a public benefit to the state ..
 
aspirantmed said:
This isn't that good of an analogy. Residents of those states pay taxes with the intent that the AMCs and graduating MDs of those medical schools will provide a public benefit to the state ..
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Good point. But not everyone from those schools stay in their home state. And you just brought up a relevant factor outside of gpa and the MCAT ( for many this discussion is focused principally on those 2 factors). What about the URM's that work in underserved communities after graduating? Isn't that also providing a public benefit as well as supporting a specific mission?
 
taffer said:
No, you can't. But slow down and put yourself in the shoes of an ORM with me for a minute. The only information you do have says that, on average, you need to perform better in multiple areas relative to certain candidates because you don't look a certain way. Well...That's discouraging. Guess what happens next? Your brain begins to ponder other possibilities. "If data says I need to do better on quantified, measurable standards, who's to say I don't need to go above and beyond in every other area, too?" Whether or not your poor, anxiety-filled brain has come to a truthful conclusion or not, it will always wonder (and nobody will ever know). And as the long, stressful, tiring process lingers on, this view becomes more and more solidified in your mind. Your mind then comes to a conclusion: "This process is unfair to somebody in my position."

It doesn't matter if there are hundreds or thousands of other spots. You only need one. And if data says that one or multiple spots are going to individuals that you appear to be more qualified than...Does that seem fair? Just? Not really. Does it make sense now? Thanks for empathizing, you can take your shoes off.

This is where I believe the angsty ORM camp is coming from. However, people on one side of an argument rarely care about nor try to understand the other's, which is why these threads always turn out the same way: ORMs being angry about the apparent system in place and URMs dumping on them saying they are making it up or better yet, that it is indeed that way and that's the way they like it.
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I'm actually an ORM that has no problem with the system. I was never scared of losing my seat to that less than a handful of URM candidates in a given class, and I never had problems keeping my grades high or having a competitive MCAT. I really feel like it's an issue borderline candidates use to focus on why they didn't get in, when the fact is that if URM status didn't matter and admissions were race blind, they still would have lost their seat to some better qualified kid. Either way, they ain't gettin' in.
 
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altitudinarian said:
I just wonder, if everyone was of the same skin color by some odd act of nature, then it'll just come down to mere MCAT/GPA scores, and then the added goods (ECS, LORS, volunteer, etc.). There'd still be people getting beaten by other people. Just now there is no indication of race.

And I guess this type of scenario would hold true if all med schools had race-blind admissions. If med schools decided just not to report what race/ethnicity the person is who gets into med school, what then? If you were one of the applicants deemed "competitive" how would you go about knowing what went wrong in your application? Unless you have very unique experiences that not many med school applicants will have, it'll be tough to figure out what edged you out if you had similar stats, down to even the ecs and volunteer hours.

All in all, let's all just be happy that we're alive, and we have the capabilities to even pursue becoming doctors. Not that many other people here and around the world have the privilege to pursue such a dream. We're all awesome. :highfive:
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I've found that the way a candidate sells their experiences and presents themselves is far more indicative of whether they'll get in than raw scores beyond a certain point. If you can write a solid personal statement and secondary, you'll be way better off than the guy with better qualifications who has wtiting that is boring as hell and interviews poorly.
 
Cyberdyne 101 said:
At least one person brought this up in the other thread- but what about super awesome state schools that have slightly lower median MCAT scores (ie below 33)? UNC, U Wash, OHSU, UC Davis, UC Irvine, Iowa and UAB are examples. I don't see threads that antagonize residents of those states.
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I'm from Seattle... I once had an admissions board member tell me "UW is one of those schools that wants you to save the world before you go to medicine." -- basically stressing that they look at the whole person rather than just stats. I've never heard anyone I know complain about this, even though they are known for rejecting 4.0, stellar MCAT students.

Partially because of this whenever I see these URM posts (which always seem boil down to schools looking at an entire applicant instead of the hard numbers..) I can't help but think privilege and racism comes into play. (And bitterness.) I'm ORM and if I'm honest, I'm inclined to those feelings as well, but I really don't want to argue the existence of institutionalized injustices and the lack of equity the whole system has.. so I'll just be quiet now. 😕
 
sunk01 said:
I'm from Seattle... I once had an admissions board member tell me "UW is one of those schools that wants you to save the world before you go to medicine." -- basically stressing that they look at the whole person rather than just stats. I've never heard anyone I know complain about this, even though they are known for rejecting 4.0, stellar MCAT students.

Partially because of this whenever I see these URM posts (which always seem boil down to schools looking at an entire applicant instead of the hard numbers..) I can't help but think privilege and racism comes into play. (And bitterness.) I'm ORM and if I'm honest, I'm inclined to those feelings as well, but I really don't want to argue the existence of institutionalized injustices and the lack of equity the whole system has.. so I'll just be quiet now. 😕
Click to expand...
I wish I had a state school like UW. Even as a URM with unique experiences I feel like I have to get a stellar MCAT score to have a chance there. But I'm ok with it 😎
 
Mad Jack said:
I'm actually an ORM that has no problem with the system. I was never scared of losing my seat to that less than a handful of URM candidates in a given class, and I never had problems keeping my grades high or having a competitive MCAT. I really feel like it's an issue borderline candidates use to focus on why they didn't get in, when the fact is that if URM status didn't matter and admissions were race blind, they still would have lost v their seat to some better qualified kid. Either way, they ain't gettin' in.
Click to expand...

Try being an Asian male from CA first before being all smug. Second of all, don't assume people that complain about the system are borderline candidates. There are plenty of people who have acceptances who just don't agree with the policy.
 
Fabio Lanzoni said:
Try being an Asian male from CA first before being all smug. Second of all, don't assume people that complain about the system are borderline candidates. There are plenty of people who have acceptances who just don't agree with the policy.
Click to expand...
The people who are most butthurt about it are almost always right on the edge of the admission spectrum or reapplicants. Go ahead and be passionate about it on principle. I'll be over hear setting the dial for maximum apathy.
I-dont-care-lol-bye-dolphin.gif
 
Mad Jack said:
The people who are most butthurt about it are almost always right on the edge of the admission spectrum or reapplicants. Go ahead and be passionate about it on principle. I'll be over hear setting the dial for maximum apathy.
I-dont-care-lol-bye-dolphin.gif
Click to expand...

Bye <3
 
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