Why is neurology salary relatively low?

[TheBiologist]

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I'm wondering what determines the pay for different specialties; is it supply and demand or is it more complicated than that?

it seems like there would be a high demand for brain disorders, and other things like pain/sleep problems, especially with the increasing older population

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm wondering what determines the pay for different specialties; is it supply and demand or is it more complicated than that?

it seems like there would be a high demand for brain disorders, and other things like pain/sleep problems, especially with the increasing older population

Procedures pay in our current system. There's not a lot of procedures to be done for many neuro patients, and some of the procedures that neurologists do that are billable (EMGs, for instance) have had serious cuts over the years. Supply and demand don't determine what you get paid, CMS and insurance companies do. This isn't a true free market.

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

Procedures pay in our current system. There's not a lot of procedures to be done for many neuro patients, and some the procedures that neurologists do that are billable (EMGs, for instance) have had serious cuts over the years. Supply and demand don't determine what you get paid, CMS and insurance companies do. This isn't a true free market.

Agree with the procedures bit. I've recently tried to understand RVUs and all that jazz. It was a losing battle.

 

[TheBiologist]

Procedures pay in our current system. There's not a lot of procedures to be done for many neuro patients, and some of the procedures that neurologists do that are billable (EMGs, for instance) have had serious cuts over the years. Supply and demand don't determine what you get paid, CMS and insurance companies do. This isn't a true free market.

hey, sorry to re-bump this thread but I had one more question about this - what procedures to diagnostic radiologists do that allow them to make a relatively high salary?

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

hey, sorry to re-bump this thread but I had one more question about this - what procedures to diagnostic radiologists do that allow them to make a relatively high salary?

Try looking at this random Diagnostic Rad site I found: Diagnostic Radiology Procedures - Radiology Alliance - Radiologists - Middle Tennessee - TN | CT, CTA/MRA, DEXA, Fluoroscopy

Probably a question better suited for @gyngyn, @LizzyM, @gonnif, etc. Or you could always go shadow I suppose

 

[Levo]

hey, sorry to re-bump this thread but I had one more question about this - what procedures to diagnostic radiologists do that allow them to make a relatively high salary?

Reading x-rays. Very large numbers of them. Very quickly.

 

[Mad Jack]

hey, sorry to re-bump this thread but I had one more question about this - what procedures to diagnostic radiologists do that allow them to make a relatively high salary?

Every single image is a procedure, and a good radiologist can read tons of images in an hour. Diagnostic radiologists also do some interventional work- biopsies, line placement, etc.

 

[efle]

The supply and demand bit does kick in regarding where you practice tho. Even less competitive specialties like Psych can make only ~150k in some places but then 250k+ in others

 

[DrBowtie]

The supply and demand bit does kick in regarding where you practice tho. Even less competitive specialties like Psych can make only ~150k in some places but then 250k+ in others

Most of that difference is subsidy from employed positions. They need coverage so they overpay to have it and it's not tied to RVU production. Rural areas do get a small RVU bump but not enough to account for 100k difference.

 

[efle]

They need coverage so they overpay to have it

That's the "supply and demand" at work isn't it?

 

[DrBowtie]

That's the "supply and demand" at work isn't it?

In an employed or contracted situation. They need you to make money on the associated services like inpt hospitalization. Has little to do with what you generate from your own billing.

 

[bbbcccppp]

They have a lot of nerve


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[Levo]

I would also imagine that with proliferation of imaging for almost anything in the past 20-30 years, being ordered by so many different kinds of specialists, every one requiring reading and report by a radiologist provides incredible flow of work into a practice.

At the hospital I was at, every intubated patient got a once daily chest x-ray. They got a second x-ray for any new lines or tubes that got put in. Then if any of those lines or tubes needed to be re-positioned, they got another chest x-ray to confirm the re-positioning. Think about how many chest x-rays alone that is. A radiologist would read and bill for every one of those.

 

[Neuro244]

Sorry to read bump this thread but I had a question in regards to an entry level salary for a neurologist fresh out of residency.

What would an entry-level general neurologist fresh out of residency expect or be likely to make annually? Specifically if he/she is working at an Outpatient Center in Los Angeles, California.

In addition, what about a neurologist that subspecializes in sleep medicine, what can he or she expect to make annually after 2 years into working as an attending? Specifically if he or she sees neurology patients 3 times a week in an outpatient facility and sleep patients twice a week in an outpatient facility? Assuming this is in Los Angeles, California.

Thanks

 

[mistafab]

I won't give you any exact numbers here, but it is not really necessary for my point.

LA, California is going to pay a neurologist much less than a counterpart outside that region. All the "popular" locales like the west coast and east coast pay far less than flyover country or the north. This is also the case, relatively, with cities vs. rural areas, with the former paying less than the latter, on average.

So you'd expect less money in LA california than the median - specifically fresh out of residency.

Sorry to read bump this thread but I had a question in regards to an entry level salary for a neurologist fresh out of residency.

What would an entry-level general neurologist fresh out of residency expect or be likely to make annually? Specifically if he/she is working at an Outpatient Center in Los Angeles, California.

In addition, what about a neurologist that subspecializes in sleep medicine, what can he or she expect to make annually after 2 years into working as an attending? Specifically if he or she sees neurology patients 3 times a week in an outpatient facility and sleep patients twice a week in an outpatient facility? Assuming this is in Los Angeles, California.

Thanks

 

[TheBiologist]

I won't give you any exact numbers here, but it is not really necessary for my point.

LA, California is going to pay a neurologist much less than a counterpart outside that region. All the "popular" locales like the west coast and east coast pay far less than flyover country or the north. This is also the case, relatively, with cities vs. rural areas, with the former paying less than the latter, on average.

So you'd expect less money in LA california than the median - specifically fresh out of residency.

rural makes more than cities? aren't many rural areas low income, how do they afford it?

 

[mistafab]

Rural doctors make more because no one (doctors) wants to live there. Again, this is just the rule of thumb, but it is usually the case. Doctors I worked with (neuro) made 180-190 on the east coast (low, but academic), and I knew a pscyhiatrist and she was making 220 (employed), but they could pull much more working in North Dakota, Utah, or Alaska. This doesn't even include cost of living which is cheaper in rural areas and exponentially more pricey in cities.

rural makes more than cities? aren't many rural areas low income, how do they afford it?

 

[Lucca]

rural makes more than cities? aren't many rural areas low income, how do they afford it?

Rural docs have less competition so might have a higher patient volume. A lot of rural patients are on Medicare and Medicaid and can afford services because they are covered by those insurance providers. Rural areas are underserved and a "family doc" might also be doing some OB, some EM, and maybe even other procedures that an FM in the city would never see. If joining a group practice, recruiting a new doc would require a fat check since most ppl don't want to move out to the country in their thirties.

So some reasons:

1. Lower competition
2. You might be the only doc with ur training for miles and miles, capturing a broad patient base.
3. You might be doing things that you wouldn't do in the city because you are the only doc for people to turn to for a lot of different services.
4. Patient base tends to be poorer and older, meaning more frequent users of medical services, often the expensive kind like major surgeries or they require regular prescriptions for chronic conditions.

 

[Neuro244]

I

I won't give you any exact numbers here, but it is not really necessary for my point.

LA, California is going to pay a neurologist much less than a counterpart outside that region. All the "popular" locales like the west coast and east coast pay far less than flyover country or the north. This is also the case, relatively, with cities vs. rural areas, with the former paying less than the latter, on average.

So you'd expect less money in LA california than the median - specifically fresh out of residency.

Interesting thoughts. I've also heard the same about rural areas in comparison to cities, but did not know that LA would pay less in comparison to other places such as fly over countries. Do you think it's possible for a neurologist entry level fresh out of residency to get offered 250k per year working at an outpatient clinic away from the city maybe towards like the San Fernando Valley in California?