why is radiology getting more competitive even with the uncertainty from outsourcing?

[soulcity]

When the future of diagnostic radiology is discussed with attendings/residents from other fields, they always cite job security issues related to (1) AI technology and (2) offshore outsourcing. Since AI related issue was discussed in the other thread, I wanted to elicit some thoughts regarding outsourcing images for the preliminary read (i.e. some companies already outsource images to India NY times article). Sure, current policies mandate that radiology reports should be done by a US-trained doctor. Such policies can change suddenly though, depending on who comes in power. Politics is a volatile thing. Any thoughts?

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[Womb Raider]

When the future of diagnostic radiology is discussed with attendings/residents from other fields, they always cite job security issues related to (1) AI technology and (2) offshore outsourcing. Since AI related issue was discussed in the other thread, I wanted to elicit some thoughts regarding outsourcing images for the preliminary read (i.e. some companies already outsource images to India NY times article). Sure, current policies mandate that radiology reports should be done by a US-trained doctor. Such policies can change suddenly though, depending on who comes in power. Politics is a volatile thing. Any thoughts?

2003? Seriously? That should tell you something.

 

[Womb Raider]

When the future of diagnostic radiology is discussed with attendings/residents from other fields, they always cite job security issues related to (1) AI technology and (2) offshore outsourcing. Since AI related issue was discussed in the other thread, I wanted to elicit some thoughts regarding outsourcing images for the preliminary read (i.e. some companies already outsource images to India NY times article). Sure, current policies mandate that radiology reports should be done by a US-trained doctor. Such policies can change suddenly though, depending on who comes in power. Politics is a volatile thing. Any thoughts?

Plus, if I had to guess... the outsourcing problem is less related to "politics" and more related to money, and by money I mean hospitals losing lawsuit after lawsuit since they hired docs in another country that aren't US-certified.

 

[meister]

Outsourcing internationally not a concern. You can get bargain basement American reads if you want them.

 

[JoshSt]

2003

I doubt radiology will survive the digitalization of film, especially with people doing stupid things like thinking these silly systems that acquire a CT simultaneous with a PET scan will be anything outside the research setting

 

[Radology]

We better hold onto cardiac cath or this field is a goner

 

[colbgw02]

After reading the thread title, I assumed this would be a parody thread, but maybe not?

 

[CharlieBillings]

.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

Every non-radiology attending I have spoken to about radiology has said outsourcing will destroy it so don't do it. I'm not offering any information just saying this concern deserves a response since naive med students like myself will believe it.

yes. this is a huge problem. the people with the least insight have the loudest and most accessible voices.

frankly, med students need earlier exposure to radiology. it’s treated too much like a “black box” during medical education, and it seems to mainly be delegated to 4th year elective status. with the degree of reliance on imaging, radiology really deserves more solid footing in the core curriculum.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

yes. this is a huge problem. the people with the least insight have the loudest and most accessible voices.

frankly, med students need earlier exposure to radiology. it’s treated too much like a “black box” during medical education, and it seems to mainly be delegated to 4th year elective status. with the degree of reliance on imaging, radiology really deserves more solid footing in the core curriculum.

Agreed. Just over in radonc forum someone is trying to argue with me that radiology read is easily automated by AI but guideline driven rad onc care isn’t....

Let’s see. We already have auto contouring and segmentation already to draw the tumor, big data based treatment plan selection, med onc/mid levels to monitor treatment effects, etc.

Versus generating a report for a post op pancreatic CA pt who weight 250lbs with bad artifacts. No idea what clinicians are looking for, decision far from branching, etc.

I wonder which one will get automated first.

 

[colbgw02]

Every non-radiology attending I have spoken to about radiology has said outsourcing will destroy it so don't do it. I'm not offering any information just saying this concern deserves a response since naive med students like myself will believe it.

Did these conversations take place in 2002? Because that's at least how long the boogeyman of outsourcing has been around. Yet radiology is still doing quite well.

Talk to radiologists if you want to know about radiology.

 

[Tiger100]

When the future of diagnostic radiology is discussed with attendings/residents from other fields, they always cite job security issues related to (1) AI technology and (2) offshore outsourcing. Since AI related issue was discussed in the other thread, I wanted to elicit some thoughts regarding outsourcing images for the preliminary read (i.e. some companies already outsource images to India NY times article). Sure, current policies mandate that radiology reports should be done by a US-trained doctor. Such policies can change suddenly though, depending on who comes in power. Politics is a volatile thing. Any thoughts?

Then don't do radiology. Go for another field.
What are you fishing here?

 

[soulcity]

Then don't do radiology. Go for another field.
What are you fishing here?

What is wrong with making an informed choice? Would you say this to students if they came to you to discuss interest in the field?

 

[Tiger100]

What is wrong with making an informed choice? Would you say this to students if they came to you to discuss interest in the field?

You have already made your decision.

 

[Cognovi]

What is wrong with making an informed choice? Would you say this to students if they came to you to discuss interest in the field?

Off-shore outsourcing at a significant scale will happen when 1) America is no longer at the pinnacle of modern medicine, and 2) politics allow medicine to be practiced by unlicensed practitioners for the sake of cost-savings. When that will occur is anyone's guess. I would say not until after the next world war.

 

[TCOM12]

We pay a lot of money to the ACR to lobby and defend our turf and reimbursement.

AI has existed in radiology for a long time. It’s only gonna make us faster and make the monotonous stuff easier (lung nodule follow up).

Technically robotic surgery has existed for a while. They still need a surgeon to operate it.

I could see primary care going by the wayside faster, especially with the physical exam becoming worse and worse. Imagine a patient typing in symptoms as an history, the computer identifying words, and a check box that went down an algorithm. Prescription suggested. NP or PA quickly reviews appropriateness for five minutes.

 

[meister]

It’s kind of amusing to me that everyone opines about computers replacing rads, something that would be quite remarkable technologically but ignores significant parts of our job that can’t easily be replaced, but completely accept and hand wave away the actual, real life mid level humans that are actually in real life reducing the need for all sorts of clinical physicians.

 

[CharlieBillings]

.

 

[meister]

In my experience outside of procedures, no. Usually emphatically no.

 

[Mad Jack]

When the future of diagnostic radiology is discussed with attendings/residents from other fields, they always cite job security issues related to (1) AI technology and (2) offshore outsourcing. Since AI related issue was discussed in the other thread, I wanted to elicit some thoughts regarding outsourcing images for the preliminary read (i.e. some companies already outsource images to India NY times article). Sure, current policies mandate that radiology reports should be done by a US-trained doctor. Such policies can change suddenly though, depending on who comes in power. Politics is a volatile thing. Any thoughts?

Because people don't like talking to patients

 

[Cognovi]

Are midlevels taking an interest in radiology?

NPs and PAs routinely function in IR, doing lighter procedures and helping see/follow up on consult patients. Radiologic technologists (RTs) can become radiologist assistants (RAs). Radiographers across the pond would like to interpret radiographs (Chest X-ray Interpretation by Radiographers Is Not Inferior to Radiologists: A Multireader, Multicase Comparison Using JAFROC (Jack-knife Alternative Free-response Receiver Operating Characteristics) Analysis). Sonographers can become sonographer practitioners. In other fields with ultrasound, the sonographer/practitioner can prelim sign reports, including vascular, cardiac, and obstetrics. So far, however, organized radiology has held firm that mid-levels should primarily function in noninterpretive tasks (eg, performing fluoroscopy, protocolling studies, etc.), and not function in interpretation other than to communicate their findings to the supervising radiologist. Nobody can say radiology is immune to midlevel encroachment, but no midlevel can read cross-sectional imaging or have the breadth of medical knowledge a radiologist has.

 

[radnonymous]

This forum seems to have a drastically different outlook on the future of AI as compared to other "well-known forums catering to attending radiologists" (being vague because apparently we have to be). Not saying one is right or wrong, it's just interesting to note the differences of opinion.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

This forum seems to have a drastically different outlook on the future of AI as compared to other "well-known forums catering to attending radiologists" (being vague because apparently we have to be). Not saying one is right or wrong, it's just interesting to note the differences of opinion.

The other forum has a troll who isn’t a radiologist and there is less moderation.

 

[cyberchicken001]

The other forum has a troll who isn’t a radiologist and there is less moderation.

Jimboboy?

 

[JoshSt]

(being vague because apparently we have to be)

Huh, why? Was this an issue in another thread or have people gotten in trouble? I see AM mentioned not infrequently on this SDN message board. Or not drawing the masses to that forum? Just genuinely curious, I frequent both and don’t have the perception of either being frowned upon.