Why is Rads seen as competitive???

[Ahmed786]

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Time and time again I keep hearing that Rads is one of the harder specialties to match into. However if you look at

Page 53 of
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Youll see that 56/61 or 92% of applicants matched into Radiology with a step 1 score between 211-220. The average on step 1 last year was 221 meaning you could have a BELOW AVERAGE step 1 score and still have a very very good chance of matching into Rads

I know residency selection isnt solely based on the boards but I highly doubt that people scoring below average on the boards were top of their class had above average publications etc...

Can anyone shed any insight on this??

 

[PrideNeverDie]

logical fallacy

because it is part of the success specialty acronym, people believe that it is competitive.

the days of rad are going to be over and it will be left for the socially awkward docs (no hate just saying it is a good specialty for people bad with patient care)

 

[DrBowtie]

Time and time again I keep hearing that Rads is one of the harder specialties to match into. However if you look at

Page 53 of
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Youll see that 56/61 or 92% of applicants matched into Radiology with a step 1 score between 211-220. The average on step 1 last year was 221 meaning you could have a BELOW AVERAGE step 1 score and still have a very very good chance of matching into Rads

I know residency selection isnt solely based on the boards but I highly doubt that people scoring below average on the boards were top of their class had above average publications etc...

Can anyone shed any insight on this??

There is wide variety of quality in the vast amount of programs and the sheer number of spots makes it relatively easy to match SOMEWHERE. Don't be fooled though, look at the average matched stats and you'll see there is still a very competitive application pool.

 

[link2swim06]

Time and time again I keep hearing that Rads is one of the harder specialties to match into. However if you look at

Page 53 of
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Youll see that 56/61 or 92% of applicants matched into Radiology with a step 1 score between 211-220. The average on step 1 last year was 221 meaning you could have a BELOW AVERAGE step 1 score and still have a very very good chance of matching into Rads

I know residency selection isnt solely based on the boards but I highly doubt that people scoring below average on the boards were top of their class had above average publications etc...

Can anyone shed any insight on this??

Long story, short. Too many radiologists NOT retiring, too many radiology residents = dismal job market.

Also hours are going up and pay is going down. IR is still hot, but diagnostic while still very well paying has more downfalls now.

And to the person above me talking about lack of social grace obviously has never worked anywhere near radiology or understands it....it is never going away and diagnostic radiologists spend a large portion of their day talking to other doctors and even, yes, patients. Not to mention IR which only does patient care...

I think it is not super hard to get into because there are alot of programs and alot of people just aren't "that" interested in it.

 

[MossPoh]

Everyone talking about this supposedly dismal job market, yet there are still tremendous radiologist shortages across the country. If you mean dismal job market in the most popular cities of the country, then yes, it is awful like EVERY other specialty.

My dad is a radiologist and went into retirement originally. He offered a couple of weeks a year to cover for some places and before he knew it he was getting offers for full time jobs at multiple locations...at 73 years old. He wanted to retire but they couldn't get people to fill the spots.


You can look at nearly every specialty and find some people in the lower step 1 range. It doesn't change that the average matched step 1 was still in the 238 range. Variable program quality, but also, variable candidate quality/credentials. Do you know if those people matching had anything else going for them? Great research? Great letters? All honors or AOA? Nope, you simply know that one number.

 

[Jack is Back]

Everyone talking about this supposedly dismal job market, yet there are still tremendous radiologist shortages across the country. If you mean dismal job market in the most popular cities of the country, then yes, it is awful like EVERY other specialty.

My dad is a radiologist and went into retirement originally. He offered a couple of weeks a year to cover for some places and before he knew it he was getting offers for full time jobs at multiple locations...at 73 years old. He wanted to retire but they couldn't get people to fill the spots.


You can look at nearly every specialty and find some people in the lower step 1 range. It doesn't change that the average matched step 1 was still in the 238 range. Variable program quality, but also, variable candidate quality/credentials. Do you know if those people matching had anything else going for them? Great research? Great letters? All honors or AOA? Nope, you simply know that one number.

Radiology does seem like a field you can easily do until 75 y/o with any issues.

 

[Miss Alyssa]

Time and time again I keep hearing that Rads is one of the harder specialties to match into. However if you look at

Page 53 of
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Youll see that 56/61 or 92% of applicants matched into Radiology with a step 1 score between 211-220. The average on step 1 last year was 221 meaning you could have a BELOW AVERAGE step 1 score and still have a very very good chance of matching into Rads

I know residency selection isnt solely based on the boards but I highly doubt that people scoring below average on the boards were top of their class had above average publications etc...

Can anyone shed any insight on this??

The mean step 1 was still 240 for people who matched. 90% of those matched had a step score of 221+.

There is probably some self selecting in who applies. And those with lower scores might have applied to many many more programs or got into their home school's program. That 211-220 group only represents 5% of the applicants...

I guess you have to ask what the definition of competitive is

 

[2012mdc]

Time and time again I keep hearing that Rads is one of the harder specialties to match into. However if you look at

Page 53 of
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Youll see that 56/61 or 92% of applicants matched into Radiology with a step 1 score between 211-220. The average on step 1 last year was 221 meaning you could have a BELOW AVERAGE step 1 score and still have a very very good chance of matching into Rads

I know residency selection isnt solely based on the boards but I highly doubt that people scoring below average on the boards were top of their class had above average publications etc...

Can anyone shed any insight on this??

Because of concerns about declining reimbursements and a tightening job market, rads has become a more self selective field - less people who were only doing it for money/lifestyle are applying.


There are around 180 programs and ~1000 spots which is a lot more than derm, ent, rad onc, etc.

The top of the applicant pool is still very competitive and the top 25 programs are not easy to match to at all.


Match rate is not the best way to judge a specialty's competitiveness. Specialty X could have a match rate of 95% but if the average matched applicant has a 250, AOA, and 10 pubs that means the average med student won't have a chance and won't even bother applying -> higher match rate.

Step 1 in a vacuum is faulty because you don't know if those people with lower step 1's had good clinical grades, good step 2, good connections, or even where they matched.

 

[El Dooderino]

Outside of plastics and maybe derm nothing is that hard to match into if you play the game well

 

[DoctwoB]

Time and time again I keep hearing that Rads is one of the harder specialties to match into. However if you look at

Page 53 of
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Youll see that 56/61 or 92% of applicants matched into Radiology with a step 1 score between 211-220. The average on step 1 last year was 221 meaning you could have a BELOW AVERAGE step 1 score and still have a very very good chance of matching into Rads

I know residency selection isnt solely based on the boards but I highly doubt that people scoring below average on the boards were top of their class had above average publications etc...

Can anyone shed any insight on this??

This is a 1 year sample. Look at past years and you'll see a much lower match rate. Whether this year's sample is the norm going forward or an exception remains to be seen.

 

[ManBroDude]

Radiology does seem like a field you can easily do until 75 y/o with any issues.

Question is, who actually wants to work till they're 75?

 

[Ahmed786]

Because of concerns about declining reimbursements and a tightening job market, rads has become a more self selective field - less people who were only doing it for money/lifestyle are applying.


There are around 180 programs and ~1000 spots which is a lot more than derm, ent, rad onc, etc.

The top of the applicant pool is still very competitive and the top 25 programs are not easy to match to at all.


Match rate is not the best way to judge a specialty's competitiveness. Specialty X could have a match rate of 95% but if the average matched applicant has a 250, AOA, and 10 pubs that means the average med student won't have a chance and won't even bother applying -> higher match rate.

Step 1 in a vacuum is faulty because you don't know if those people with lower step 1's had good clinical grades, good step 2, good connections, or even where they matched.

I agree with everything except the bolded. I understand the AVERAGE candidate applying to it is very very good but I am trying to point out how people with below average step scores are getting in at a pretty good rate. It doesnt matter if the average applicant had a 270 was AOA and had 25 publications, if people with a 215 step 1 score have a ~90ish% chance of matching then it doesnt seem too competitive to me

 

[2012mdc]

I agree with everything except the bolded. I understand the AVERAGE candidate applying to it is very very good but I am trying to point out how people with below average step scores are getting in at a pretty good rate. It doesnt matter if the average applicant had a 270 was AOA and had 25 publications, if people with a 215 step 1 score have a ~90ish% chance of matching then it doesnt seem too competitive to me

If you agree with everything except the bolded part then that means you agree that looking at Step 1 alone is faulty. Just because someone didn't do well on Step 1 doesn't make them a weak candidate. They can have a bunch of honors 3rd year and/or great research and/or make good connections.

You are judging a specialty's competitiveness by looking at less than 10% of its applicant pool and judging that small faction just by 1 factor. That is highly unreliable.

And I'm not even arguing that it is super competitive. The average med student has a great chance to match rads if they apply broadly. I'm just saying looking purely at match % and step 1 while examining a small subset of applicants is not the best way to determine competitiveness.

 

[officedepot]

I cannot comment on the jobs market but the pay for diagnostic radiologists is still very high. Everything I've seen puts the average at or around $500k for private practice. That is significantly higher than pretty much every other speciality expect for some surgical fields. The work nowadays is tougher as you have to produce to get that kind of money.

I'm also not sure about patient interaction in private practice but there is some for sure. Also, you need to look at if from another point of view... how much patient interaction is there in other fields when you are not in clinic? yeah not so much. Most of your day is spent doing notes, meetings, rounding, etc. The time you spend talking to the patient takes up very little of your overall day. You only really spend most of your time with patients in the outpatient setting.

 

[Jack is Back]

Question is, who actually wants to work till they're 75?

Me. Hopefully I can find something that is interesting enough that I want to work at that age.

 

[Jack is Back]

I cannot comment on the jobs market but the pay for diagnostic radiologists is still very high. Everything I've seen puts the average at or around $500k for private practice. That is significantly higher than pretty much every other speciality expect for some surgical fields. The work nowadays is tougher as you have to produce to get that kind of money.

I'm also not sure about patient interaction in private practice but there is some for sure. Also, you need to look at if from another point of view... how much patient interaction is there in other fields when you are not in clinic? yeah not so much. Most of your day is spent doing notes, meetings, rounding, etc. The time you spend talking to the patient takes up very little of your overall day. You only really spend most of your time with patients in the outpatient setting.

Rads has a huge target on their back though. CMS wants to cut imaging costs pretty majorly.

http://www.dotmed.com/news/story/17294/

 

[Taurus]

Rads has a huge target on their back though. CMS wants to cut imaging costs pretty majorly.

http://www.dotmed.com/news/story/17294/

All the specialties have targets on their backs.

The favorite target last year and this year is actually cardiology.

Massive cuts to cardiac procedures and imaging. 50% cuts in angioplasty and stenting are being rumored in the near future, and that's on top of the cuts already.

Remember that more imaging is read by non-radiologists than radiologists. If CMS cuts imaging, it's not just radiologists who get hit. Cardiology in particular will get hit hard too.

To answer the OP, I don't know how you figured your numbers. The last time I looked the average step I score for radiology is 240. It's one of the more competitive fields out there. Why? It's hard to appreciate until you go through medical school and then residency. Seeing patients is over-rated. Most people after a while do not like seeing patients. Unfortunately for many people, they don't realize this until they've already started a residency. Trying to switch later is very difficult.

 

[Jack is Back]

All the specialties have targets on their backs.

The favorite target last year and this year is actually cardiology.

Massive cuts to cardiac procedures and imaging. 50% cuts in angioplasty and stenting are being rumored in the near future, and that's on top of the cuts already.

Remember that more imaging is read by non-radiologists than radiologists. If CMS cuts imaging, it's not just radiologists who get hit. Cardiology in particular will get hit hard too.

To answer the OP, I don't know how you figured your numbers. The last time I looked the average step I score for radiology is 240. It's one of the more competitive fields out there. Why? It's hard to appreciate until you go through medical school and then residency. Seeing patients is over-rated. Most people after a while do not like seeing patients. Unfortunately for many people, they don't realize this until they've already started a residency. Trying to switch later is very difficult.

Honestly, Rads baffles me. I can't imagine the tech in 20 years... it's going to be something like, "ok, here is a 3D rendered image of everything inside of your body."

 

[PMPMD]

Time and time again I keep hearing that Rads is one of the harder specialties to match into. However if you look at

Page 53 of
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Youll see that 56/61 or 92% of applicants matched into Radiology with a step 1 score between 211-220. The average on step 1 last year was 221 meaning you could have a BELOW AVERAGE step 1 score and still have a very very good chance of matching into Rads

I know residency selection isnt solely based on the boards but I highly doubt that people scoring below average on the boards were top of their class had above average publications etc...

Can anyone shed any insight on this??

Not exactly. NRMP only counts those who enter the match (ie have at least one rank). So only those with a 211-220 AND who get a👎 interview(s) count towards that 92%. And you're talking about 56 spots out of over 1000. Wouldn't count on it.

 

[drizzt3117]

Um there's > 1000 spots and the average is 241...yes matching into a community program in bfe might not be super hard, but the top programs are super competitive. I believe UM last year had > 260 avg and everyone was aoa.

Time and time again I keep hearing that Rads is one of the harder specialties to match into. However if you look at

Page 53 of
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Youll see that 56/61 or 92% of applicants matched into Radiology with a step 1 score between 211-220. The average on step 1 last year was 221 meaning you could have a BELOW AVERAGE step 1 score and still have a very very good chance of matching into Rads

I know residency selection isnt solely based on the boards but I highly doubt that people scoring below average on the boards were top of their class had above average publications etc...

Can anyone shed any insight on this??