Why is that some med schools start at 8 and end by 12, while others are 8 to 5

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alexfoleyc

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My friend got accepted to couple of schools, and she was showing me the schedules for M1s. One school started the day at 8am and ended it by 12pm. While others mostly had all day classes; e.g., from 8am to 5pm or even 6pm with only one hour lunch break.

What are the pros and cons of each of the schedules? Do students have to do equivalent amount of studying after class each day regardless of how much time is spent in class? Is it more like this?

8am-5pm day: Plus 3-5 hours study
8am-12pm day: Plus 3-5 hours study

OR

8am-5pm day: Plus 3-5 hours study (LESS time studying outside class due to longer class day)
8am-12pm day: Plus 5 or MORE hours study (MORE time studying outside class due to shorter class day)

Thank you!
 
Here's the difference:

8am-5pm day: No one shows up to class
8am-12pm day: you'll normally get 40% attendance
 
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Most schools are being forcefully 'recommended' by accreditation committees to reduce lecture time because it's almost never ideal for the student or their success. Most schools that are clued into their students interests have moved to more of a 8-12pm schedule or so. I know at my school though we have a little more class the first half of M1 and then it settles in (part of their plan to get people to regiment themselves i think).

But i agree with above poster, if you start having more than 4-5 hours of class-time every day... people just won't go. Independent study is where the material is really learned.
 
MedBound1 said:
Most schools are being forcefully 'recommended' by accreditation committees to reduce lecture time because it's almost never ideal for the student or their success. Most schools that are clued into their students interests have moved to more of a 8-12pm schedule or so. I know at my school though we have a little more class the first half of M1 and then it settles in (part of their plan to get people to regiment themselves i think).

But i agree with above poster, if you start having more than 4-5 hours of class-time every day... people just won't go. Independent study is where the material is really learned.
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Yes! That is exactly why I would favor the shorter day. But are the number of hours spent studying outside of the classes equivalent regardless of shorter or longer lecture days?

Anyone actually following the shorter schedule that would like to provide your input?
 
No med school has just an 8-12 schedule (i.e. ends each day at noon). The schools w/ lecture from 8-12 also have PBE/PBL in the afternoons on average 2-3x a week plus required clinical courses (history taking/physical exam/diagnosis etc...) and physician preceptor visits as well as electives in the evening.

The schools w/ 8-5 lecture have little to no PBE/PBL or have it incorporated in the 'schedule' or have a condensed 1.5 to 1yr pre-clinical schedule.

At the same time there are many 8-5 schools that like to add fluff to their curriculum that won't be on the boards which adds to the lecture time...
 
alpinism said:
No med school has just an 8-12 schedule (i.e. ends each day at noon). The schools w/ lecture from 8-12 also have PBE/PBL in the afternoons on average 2-3x a week plus required clinical courses (history taking/physical exam/diagnosis etc...) and physician preceptor visits as well as electives in the evening.

The schools w/ 8-5 lecture have little to no PBE/PBL or have it incorporated in the 'schedule' or have a condensed 1.5 to 1yr pre-clinical schedule.

At the same time there are many 8-5 schools that like to add fluff to their curriculum that won't be on the boards which adds to the lecture time...
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My med school is 8-12 M-F, plus two afternoons of 1-5pm. So thats three days a week where you get off at noon. It's not 20 hours a week, but it's closer than you think. For the first year and a half we had about 75% attendance at morning lecture/lab.
 
alpinism said:
No med school has just an 8-12 schedule (i.e. ends each day at noon). The schools w/ lecture from 8-12 also have PBE/PBL in the afternoons on average 2-3x a week plus required clinical courses (history taking/physical exam/diagnosis etc...) and physician preceptor visits as well as electives in the evening.

The schools w/ 8-5 lecture have little to no PBE/PBL or have it incorporated in the 'schedule' or have a condensed 1.5 to 1yr pre-clinical schedule.

At the same time there are many 8-5 schools that like to add fluff to their curriculum that won't be on the boards which adds to the lecture time...
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A buddy of mine goes to a school where they have 8-12 every day (including PBL), Thursday being completely optional. Typically 1 day a week there is an afternoon activity.
 
my school is 830 to 11.. one afternoon class a week.. i podcast everything so the time doesnt matter so much
 
My school usually 8-5 3 days a week. Off at noon the other two days.

First year we had 8-3 or 8-5 pretty much everyday though. It was super ineffective and useless
 
make sure he goes to the school with as little required nonsense as possible. you'd be surprised how being forced to be somewhere you want to be on a consistent basis can affect your quality of life.
 
UVM is pretty much 8-3 sometimes 8-5:30 for the first part of M1. I have heard it becomes 8-12 then 8-3. I guess it all depends on the class.

Pros: We start clinicals early.
Cons: It makes for long days.
 
I know at my school though we have a little more class the first half of M1 and then it settles in
a112.jpg
 
My school we typically have 8-12 lectures (with some exceptions) with clinical and PBL in the afternoons, if at all.

The best thing about my school is we ALWAYS get the day before an exam off. Since most of our combined exams are on tuesdays, that means that for 1/3 weeks, we get a long weekend.
 
FIREitUP said:
make sure he goes to the school with as little required nonsense as possible. you'd be surprised how being forced to be somewhere you want to be on a consistent basis can affect your quality of life.
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How can you tell what is nonsense/fluff? Anything outside of core competencies/ step 1 topics? Just curious if there are key words/ course descriptions to avoid if possible.
 
airplanes said:
My med school is 8-12 M-F, plus two afternoons of 1-5pm. So thats three days a week where you get off at noon. It's not 20 hours a week, but it's closer than you think. For the first year and a half we had about 75% attendance at morning lecture/lab.
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This essentially our schedule as well. Our Doctoring lecture is from 1-2 or 1-3 on Monday afternoon then we have Sim center/SP/hospital session kind of things in our "colleges" (smaller groups our class is split up into for these things) from Tuesday to Thursday from either 1-3 or 3-5. Very, very rarely do we have a required thing in the afternoon beyond our Doctoring stuff. Our lecture attendance varies widely based on the lecturer/material/reputation of usefulness for the block.
 
wanderedtoolong said:
How can you tell what is nonsense/fluff? Anything outside of core competencies/ step 1 topics? Just curious if there are key words/ course descriptions to avoid if possible.
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anything labeled: *-based learning, patient oriented problem solving, minicases, * conference, etc.
 
Kaputt said:
A buddy of mine goes to a school where they have 8-12 every day (including PBL), Thursday being completely optional. Typically 1 day a week there is an afternoon activity.
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Yeah, I was prob being overly general. There are always outliers/exceptions, but for the most part the majority (90%+) of med schools (incl. "8-12" lecture schools) also have stuff in the afternoons on average 2x or more a week. Whether its required or not, well that's a whole other story...

Our school is mostly 9-12 lecture w/ some 8-12, but we have required afternoon PBL 2x a week till 430 and a required afternoon clinical skills course 1x a week till 4. So 3d/wk we're at school till at least 4pm.

(There are some weeks, however, for instance the week before block exams where we might only have 1 PBL course that week)
 
tantacles said:
My school we typically have 8-12 lectures (with some exceptions) with clinical and PBL in the afternoons, if at all.

The best thing about my school is we ALWAYS get the day before an exam off. Since most of our combined exams are on tuesdays, that means that for 1/3 weeks, we get a long weekend.
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Only one day 😱

I thought all schools got at least a week before exams, I guess we are just lucky
 
FIREitUP said:
make sure he goes to the school with as little required nonsense as possible. you'd be surprised how being forced to be somewhere you want to be on a consistent basis can affect your quality of life.
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I get irritated when I have to actually go to class. Sitting in a lecture hall literally all day sounds inefficient and very counterproductive. It's hard to master material listening to someone else lecture about it.


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For those of you in all day lectures: Would you say that you spent a lot of time studying outside of the class or does having classes 8-5 somewhat makes it easier meaning that you have to spend less time studying outside of the class since you are already spending a lot of time in class learning. But it seems like longer days are ineffective based on what most ppl posted. I always wondered how is it possible to be in class from 8-5, and then study until late night. Isn't your brain toasted by end of 5pm?
 
They dont teach us pharm. they tell us, read the book. Our days are fairly short
 
alexfoleyc said:
For those of you in all day lectures: Would you say that you spent a lot of time studying outside of the class or does having classes 8-5 somewhat makes it easier meaning that you have to spend less time studying outside of the class since you are already spending a lot of time in class learning. But it seems like longer days are ineffective based on what most ppl posted. I always wondered how is it possible to be in class from 8-5, and then study until late night. Isn't your brain toasted by end of 5pm?
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My school has lectures from 8/9 to 4/5 most days (including small group, clinic, other stuff). Luckily, they recorded all lectures and posted them online later in the day so you could 1.5 or 2x them. A few of the lectures were mandatory (which immediately told you they were absolutely worthless, or being given by a guest instructor [usually a MD, so refer to the earlier part about it being worthless]).

I went to lecture for about a week of 1st year and never went back unless it was mandatory. If I missed one point in the lecture it threw me off for the rest of the hour. I liked being able to go back and re-watch something I had just watched but had actually zoned out.
 
I don't go to class, don't listen to recorded lectures, and don't go over the slides. I do above average.

I have found the way I learn and has nothing to do with (trying to) listen to people talk or trying to make sense of poorly made PowerPoint slides. Reading carefully edited, highly recommended board review and text books has been most efficient and beneficial for me. I go over the material multiple times at my own pace and at my own level until it's learned. Done.
 
startswithb said:
I don't go to class, don't listen to recorded lectures, and don't go over the slides. I do above average.

I have found the way I learn and has nothing to do with (trying to) listen to people talk or trying to make sense of poorly made PowerPoint slides. Reading carefully edited, highly recommended board review and text books has been most efficient and beneficial for me. I go over the material multiple times at my own pace and at my own level until it's learned. Done.
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You're lucky. My school has an inordinate amount of fluff taught in lecture that ends up being a significant (not > 50%) part of the material on the test.
 
i think the more important thing is whether it is P/F the first 2 yrs or not
 
notbobtrustme said:
this a thousand times.
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And cubed again. With the massive amount of material required for the boards, any amount of time not spent learning relevant info comes at that info's direct expense. Relevant clinical skills are important, though. I wish I had been cognizant of this as an incoming student.
 
I think a medical school's schedule is one of the most overlooked factors when deciding which medical school to attend. I would never attend a school that was 9-5 or had multiple afternoon classes even if that school was Harvard.

I don't go to class and we only have a 1 hour PBL every other week. I average about 6 hours of studying time each day, so I have as much free time as a 40 hour/wk job. First two years of med school will be a vacation compared to third year though.
 
TAWS said:
I think a medical school's schedule is one of the most overlooked factors when deciding which medical school to attend. I would never attend a school that was 9-5 or had multiple afternoon classes even if that school was Harvard.

I don't go to class and we only have a 1 hour PBL every other week. I average about 6 hours of studying time each day, so I have as much free time as a 40 hour/wk job. First two years of med school will be a vacation compared to third year though.
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I agree 100%. I totally envy your schedule.
 
startswithb said:
I don't go to class, don't listen to recorded lectures, and don't go over the slides. I do above average.

I have found the way I learn and has nothing to do with (trying to) listen to people talk or trying to make sense of poorly made PowerPoint slides. Reading carefully edited, highly recommended board review and text books has been most efficient and beneficial for me. I go over the material multiple times at my own pace and at my own level until it's learned. Done.
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So you don't really need your school at all. Sucks that you have to pay so much to teach yourself. I was in pretty much the same situation.
 
peteB said:
So you don't really need your school at all. Sucks that you have to pay so much to teach yourself. I was in pretty much the same situation.
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I just think that's the first two years anywhere. You end up learning all the stuff yourself anyway...there aren't really many concepts lecturers have to walk you through. Even the concepts that do need to be explained, with the internet you can get a cardiac cycle explanation from one place, an EKG from another, a renal explanation from another, etc. Chances are the best explanation you can find online/best book you can find does a better job than your lecturer so you really don't need them anymore.
 
peteB said:
Isn't P/F a bad thing? It makes it harder for you to stand out amongst your classmates.
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P/F for the first two years makes things a little less competitive and decreases overall stress. Grades kick in during third year. Third year grades seem to matter more anyway to program directors. I don't think I would have had the same MS1-2 experience had there been grades and a ranking system.

Edit: there is also step I
 
I would never ever go to a school with required attendance (I've heard tell of a few here in America too). I'm not in 3rd grade anymore, as long as I can pass the test there's no reason I should have to go to lecture.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
I would never ever go to a school with required attendance (I've heard tell of a few here in America too). I'm not in 3rd grade anymore, as long as I can pass the test there's no reason I should have to go to lecture.
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same thing goes for required group sessions, IMO. if I can learn it well enough on my own leave me the heck alone.
 
wanderedtoolong said:
How can you tell what is nonsense/fluff? Anything outside of core competencies/ step 1 topics? Just curious if there are key words/ course descriptions to avoid if possible.
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Anything that has the word "learning" or "based" in the description.
 
vasca said:
My med school recently changed their curricula (I already graduated but took a look at their changed system for curiosity sake) and they have removed useful and important subjects such as Embryology and Physiology and filled it with fluff subjects like "Successful marriage", "Be a good role model" and a bunch of semi obligatory random religious subjects. They have cut down Pharmacology which to me is one of the top 3 most important subjects you must master to become a good doctor to just 1 semester when I had it for 4 semesters.

The mexican residency exam has ZERO questions about how to lead a happy marriage, they might have 1 or 2 bioethics questions focusing on legislation and history context instead of bioethical clinical cases and endless clinical questions that require a knowledge of Pharmacology and Physiology. You know it's a fluff course when the title of the course doesn't seem even remotely medical and doesn't appear at all in the national licensing exam of the country you went to med school in. I hated taking fluff courses, waste of money and precious studying time that could have been better used to expand more useful subjects such as clinical exploration and anatomy lab.
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👍 👍 They waste your time with fluff and say stupid things like "Medicine is about more than the Krebs cycle"
 
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