Why MD/DO and not PA/NP

[DermViser]

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I'm seeing these kinds of threads all the time. Many people will try talking you out of medical school for NP and PA school.

OP stop drinking the kool aid and do your research. If you wanna be a PA, then do it. Wanna get an MD? Do that. Simple as that.

Problem is 9 times out of 10, they haven't and haven't shadowed appropriately to see the difference.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Problem is 9 times out of 10, they haven't and haven't shadowed appropriately to see the difference.

True. However, even with shadowing, one does not even get close to understanding the ordeals of physicians. Pre-meds, like myself, only get a fragmented picture of what is going on and have to base our decision off that picture.

 

[DermViser]

True. However, even with shadowing, one does not even get close to understanding the ordeals of physicians. Pre-meds, like myself, only get a fragmented picture of what is going on and have to base our decision off that picture.

Wrong - you do when you shadow appropriately with realistic timings, in proper environments (academic medical centers).

 

[IslandStyle808]

Wrong - you do when you shadow appropriately with realistic timings, in proper environments (academic medical centers).

I've had shadowing experiences for around 8 hours a day (usually 4-5), unless I work in a hospital, I won't see everything. Physicians I have shadowed don't usually show the paperwork they go through and how they wrap up at the end of the day. These are things I should see also.

 

[DermViser]

I've had shadowing experiences for around 8 hours a day (usually 4-5), unless I work in a hospital, I won't see everything. Physicians I have shadowed don't usually show the paperwork they go through and how they wrap up at the end of the day. These are things I should see also.

Medicine isn't 8 hours a day - your timings aren't realistic. Sorry.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Medicine isn't 8 hours a day - your timings aren't realistic. Sorry.

I never said medicine is 8 hours a day. I said I shadowed 8 hours, when the physician's shifts are longer. Thus a fragmented picture, that's my point.

 

[DermViser]

I never said medicine is 8 hours a day. I said I shadowed 8 hours, when the physician's shifts are longer. Thus a fragmented picture, that's my point.

Like I said, I don't know what specialty you shadowed, but it's not accurate, esp. since specialties like IM, Surgery, OB-Gyn, etc. that are your required clerkships aren't shift work. Part of shadowing is realizing the amount of physical, mental, and sleep that is required to be sacrificed.

 

[Detective John McClane]

Like I said, I don't know what specialty you shadowed, but it's not accurate, esp. since specialties like IM, Surgery, OB-Gyn, etc. that are your required clerkships aren't shift work. Part of shadowing is realizing the amount of physical, mental, and sleep that is required to be sacrificed.

I think you're being agreed with. @IslandStyle808 is saying that their view has been quite limited.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I think you're being agreed with. @IslandStyle808 is saying that their view has been quite limited.

I am agreeing with him overall, but the only thing I disagree with is the fact shadowing does not show enough of a picture to truly comprehend what medicine is. For example, I shadowed a internal medicine doctor through a linkage program at the medical school. That day he did a ton of paperwork right in front of me for 30-40 minutes (yes I had to watch). My dad who is a neurologist and would do his paper work at 5am in the morning (at home). This is an example of what a lot of pre-meds don't see.

 

[johnston9234]

Wrong - you do when you shadow appropriately with realistic timings, in proper environments (academic medical centers).

Seems like the only thing you are capable of doing in this thread is to talk down to others and derailing the topic.

I am interested to hear from the other applicants here. How did you answer this question when you were being interviewed?

 

[DermViser]

Seems like the only thing you are capable of doing in this thread is to talk down to others and derailing the topic.

I am interested to hear from the other applicants here. How did you answer this question when you were being interviewed?

How am I derailing the topic? Shadowing effectively helps u decide whether MD/DO or PA/NP is right for you. It's not a medical school's fault if you take shortcuts and don't get the full, real experience.

 

[Dr. Retractor]

How am I derailing the topic? Shadowing effectively helps u decide whether MD/DO or PA/NP is right for you. It's not a medical school's fault if you take shortcuts and don't get the full, real experience.

Well you also mentioned that you can get a full shadowing experience at an academic center, which unfortunately some people don't have access to. I only have access to a community hospital and the scope of my experience is what a physician's day-to-day work is like, excluding paperwork as others have noted. I also can't shadow PAs or NPs because my hospital doesn't allow people to shadow them. I'm not "taking shortcuts"; I'm limited by my surroundings. I've seen what a physician does and I can definitely see myself doing that, so I elected to go MD/DO over PA/NP since I don't really have any experience with what PAs or NPs do.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Well you also mentioned that you can get a full shadowing experience at an academic center, which unfortunately some people don't have access to. I only have access to a community hospital and the scope of my experience is what a physician's day-to-day work is like, excluding paperwork as others have noted. I also can't shadow PAs or NPs because my hospital doesn't allow people to shadow them. I'm not "taking shortcuts"; I'm limited by my surroundings. I've seen what a physician does and I can definitely see myself doing that, so I elected to go MD/DO over PA/NP since I don't really have any experience with what PAs or NPs do.

I live in the city, we also don't have a university hospital (we don't have an academic center either). The MD students just rotate through the community hospitals. This is also another limitation.

 

[DermViser]

Well you also mentioned that you can get a full shadowing experience at an academic center, which unfortunately some people don't have access to. I only have access to a community hospital and the scope of my experience is what a physician's day-to-day work is like, excluding paperwork as others have noted. I also can't shadow PAs or NPs because my hospital doesn't allow people to shadow them. I'm not "taking shortcuts"; I'm limited by my surroundings. I've seen what a physician does and I can definitely see myself doing that, so I elected to go MD/DO over PA/NP since I don't really have any experience with what PAs or NPs do.

Your limitation is not the med school's problem if you end up regretting the MD route (vs. doing the PA/NP route).

 

[karayaa]

Wrong - you do when you shadow appropriately with realistic timings, in proper environments (academic medical centers).

errr..proper in what sense?
How is it more proper than a community hospital or private practice outpatient, which is where most doctors work?

 

[Dr. Retractor]

Your limitation is not the med school's problem if you end up regretting the MD route (vs. doing the PA/NP route).

Nowhere do I say it's the med school's fault, and I don't think it would ever be a medical school's fault if someone wishes they did PA/NP over MD/DO. And I don't think not being in a privileged environment is a "limitation". It forces me to work harder, but it's not a limitation.

I don't know what your credentials are but you're very condescending, and I get the feeling that you think only people who have access to a state-of-the-art medical centers and Ivy-graduated physicians should go to medical school.

 

[karayaa]

As a premed, you have NO standing to decide what is minutiae and what isn't. One specialty's minutiae is another specialty's you really need to know this. As far at the example I gave, knowing why the cough is happening is important, or you end up like the PA/NP who gives a cough suppressant (Guiafenesin) to someone who's coughing from an ACE inhibitor.

Are you suggesting that the degree to which a MD uses basic science depends on the specialty?

What basic science do you use in derm?

I would call your cough example clinical science, rather than basic science, unless you are actually thinking about the nitty gritty.

I still don't understand how/when doctors actually utilize basic science. Knowing it, understanding it, being able to explain and teach it is not the same as utilizing it in day to day clinical practice.

 

[Holmwood]

Durr. What a prickly thread.

PA and NP are both awesome jobs. Kushy lifestyle and neat salary. And they can both address many diseases....

I chose MD though! I don't want to play the "scope of practice game" with the various governments. Additionally, the specialties I'm interested in tend to involve controlled substances, and the areas I wish to serve tend to be more restrictive for PAs.




~Yay first post. *wiggle* *wiggle*


As for knowledge of basic sciences.. I had a physician attend my medical literature course for kicks. He didn't know what the human genome project was. Just think about that for a second...

 

[Dr. Retractor]

As for knowledge of basic sciences.. I had a physician attend my medical literature course for kicks. He didn't know what the human genome project was. Just think about that for a second...

n=1 is not representative. Just sayin'.

 

[ems2doc]

Are people still arguing that so-called "basic science" isn't important in medicine?
Medicine is rooted in these so-called "basic sciences".

 

[ASD2019]

Your limitation is not the med school's problem if you end up regretting the MD route (vs. doing the PA/NP route).

I really don't know what your status is, but judging from your posts you seem to be someone who was torn apart by medical school (and now is just in it for the money). I agree with you that M.D isn't for everyone. But I think you are assuming that most premeds won't be able to accept the reality of being a M.D. I would disagree. If you are in to for the right reasons to begin with then I think it is more of a maturity process than a regretful one. I wouldn't cast your own personal experiences upon everyone. There isn't one magic pill for everyone!

I apologize in advance if my judgment is incorrect.

 

[DermViser]

Are you suggesting that the degree to which a MD uses basic science depends on the specialty?

What basic science do you use in derm?

I would call your cough example clinical science, rather than basic science, unless you are actually thinking about the nitty gritty.

I still don't understand how/when doctors actually utilize basic science. Knowing it, understanding it, being able to explain and teach it is not the same as utilizing it in day to day clinical practice.

Biochemistry, Cell Biology, Genetics, Immunology, Histology, and Pathology. It's tested on Derm boards as well.

 

[DOorDONT]

I think if we lived in a more educated society that valued learning and the sciences, people would actually understand the classes that MD/DOs have to tackle and the difficulty of the medical board examinations. The way I see it know, especially from these posts on reddit and SDN, is that the new Nurse Practitioners that are graduating just want the $$$, work less, and live in an Urban Area. I have to had it to the lobbying groups though, they are great at taking advantage of people's naivety and short-sightedness.

 

[DOorDONT]

Higher Education really is a risk/reward type system. Can you really afford to go to medical school? Graduate with 6-figure loans? Then, do residency/fellowship for 3-6 years? It's up to the individual.

But if you had to choose between NP or PA, go for NP. They have a stronger lobbying group and will most likely get you the ability to practice medicine without oversight. Granted you'd have a lesser education and training than an MD/DO, but that's the point i guess. Just take shortcuts to get to the money. Medicine is becoming a lot like the real estate industry.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Problem solving and love of knowledge. Although some say medical school is about regurgitation facts (and yes there is a lot of that), it also teaches you how to think and ask questions.

 

[Lee]

This thread has gone off topic.

If individuals would like to continue debating each other, please take it to PM. Thanks.