Scottpilot

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Don't know if there'll be a flame war. OP's just spittin the truth as they know it, one of which is a fundamental truth I completely agree with; if you don't fully know what you're getting yourself into, likely you're in for a whole world of hurt. It's not an easy path, and it's not for everyone. However, being in the thick of things also biases our perception; it's like standing in a field on fire, all you see is black, and you don't realize there is a field of brown (with hopefully some green) on the other side out there.

Some days I wonder why I'm doing this. Most days I'm blown away by the things I'm learning and am grateful to be in med school.

I've had a previous career. Truly there are no (or very few) green fields out there.
 

sinombre

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If you're complaining about "40 more new pathways and proteins and enzymes that were discovered in the last 10 years," can I assume you're a pre-clinical student? Because if that's the case, you have a hell of a lot of work left to do before you have the authority to claim whether or not medical school is "worth it."

Memorizing 40 additional pathways as a preclinical student is like 0.0001% more work in the grand scheme of things.
 

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bro understanding those pathways are why doctors are doctors
take a look at any legitimate journal with a paper written by a doc and then take a look at any nursing journal with a paper written by an np. the difference is nearly palpable and it's due to all of the little things that we learn which you don't think much of until they come up. understanding how things work on a deeper level is part of what makes us who we are
 
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studentdoct4281

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bro understanding those pathways are why doctors are doctors
take a look at any legitimate journal with a paper written by a doc and then take a look at any nursing journal with a paper written by an np. the difference is nearly palpable and it's due to all of the little things that we learn which you don't think much of until they come up. understanding how things work on a deeper level is part of what makes us who we are
Yeah. I understand that.....
 

Wordead

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No. I got a 90%.

I get that there is delayed gratification. But usually you can find that in anything you do without the ridiculousness that med school is becoming...

and


"If you're complaining about "40 more new pathways and proteins and enzymes that were discovered in the last 10 years," can I assume you're a pre-clinical student? Because if that's the case, you have a hell of a lot of work left to do before you have the authority to claim whether or not medical school is "worth it."

Memorizing 40 additional pathways as a preclinical student is like 0.0001% more work in the grand scheme of things."

....That's my point...memorizing 40 new pathways (discovered in the last 10 years, probably going to add 100s of more protein functions and pathways in 10 years....) is what pre-clinical years is coming down to. It's the reality of it...I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just saying that the route is becoming a little ridiculous. More is being discovered so med students are expected to learn it all.

Tuition alone should be the red flag ha
You should just drop out now
 

touchpause13

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No. I got a 90%.

I get that there is delayed gratification. But usually you can find that in anything you do without the ridiculousness that med school is becoming...

and


"If you're complaining about "40 more new pathways and proteins and enzymes that were discovered in the last 10 years," can I assume you're a pre-clinical student? Because if that's the case, you have a hell of a lot of work left to do before you have the authority to claim whether or not medical school is "worth it."

Memorizing 40 additional pathways as a preclinical student is like 0.0001% more work in the grand scheme of things."

....That's my point...memorizing 40 new pathways (discovered in the last 10 years, probably going to add 100s of more protein functions and pathways in 10 years....) is what pre-clinical years is coming down to. It's the reality of it...I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just saying that the route is becoming a little ridiculous. More is being discovered so med students are expected to learn it all.

Tuition alone should be the red flag ha
1440358383791.jpg

Seriously, if you actually think it's not worth it, drop out
 
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235009

No. I got a 90%.
Nope. I was in too deep my sophomore/junior year of undergrad probably.

This advice should probably be directed towards freshman in college but whatever ha. It's good to get thoughts on it

And it's not that I don't like med school. Or I don't want to become a doctor. I'm enjoying it for the most part. My point is that the system is becoming a little ridiculous and maybe not worth it....that is all
wow, so immature

looking back I think going to med school was the right decision... couldn't get to where I wanted to go without a doctorate and looking back this was the best choice

for the vast majority of people you end up forgetting almost all of this by the end of intern year
 
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jw3600

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Nope. I was in too deep my sophomore/junior year of undergrad probably.

This advice should probably be directed towards freshman in college but whatever ha. It's good to get thoughts on it

And it's not that I don't like med school. Or I don't want to become a doctor. I'm enjoying it for the most part. My point is that the system is becoming a little ridiculous and maybe not worth it....that is all
You were too invested in medical school by your sophomore year of undergrad before you had taken half of your prerequisities and even paid a single dollar of tuition?

 

tyrsa

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now we are faced with learning probably 40 more new pathways and proteins and enzymes that were discovered in the last 10 years. That's just ridiculous to be expected to know and be tested on all of that in such detail....Imagine 10 years from now lol.
By then, the singularity will come, we will all merge with machines, and will augment our brains with expandable memory and computing power :)
 
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Nope. I was in too deep my sophomore/junior year of undergrad probably.

This advice should probably be directed towards freshman in college but whatever ha. It's good to get thoughts on it

And it's not that I don't like med school. Or I don't want to become a doctor. I'm enjoying it for the most part. My point is that the system is becoming a little ridiculous and maybe not worth it....that is all
I'm actually curious if this would get more heat in pre-allo. The specific population of delusional "premed saints" can be pretty vicious.

OP, I get what you're saying, and while the knowledge base is expanding exponentially, I think you're overestimating the amount you will have to learn. There is plenty of minutiae out there that isn't included on the boards. It isn't likely to be included either unless physicians decide that every doctor should know it
 

QualityProcess

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the real cost of medical school isn't tuition and certainly isn't learning, its the opportunity cost. would you rather be spending your 20s/30s doing your alternative?

but with respect to the costs you're talking about, OP... every career has its crappy aspects... learning pathways is not medicine's. Have you ever been around when a doc told a 38 year old G1 she had a miscarriage? or some 40 year old father-of-three non-smoker/drinker that his indigestion is actually diffusely metastatic pancreatic cancer? I would rather memorize 15 pathways than have to do that, but I know its probably coming for me at some point.
 

ChrisMack390

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So your reasoning is that it's hard and that a quarter mil per year isn't "enough" money.

K.
 

Pacna

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I enjoy these "sky is falling" scenarios from short-sighted people who look into the future and say "Overpopulation! Apocalypse!"

Sure, there will be more in-depth general knowledge of biochemistry in the future, but what you're forgetting is that this doesn't occur in a vacuum. New technology will arise/popularize (I think SRS is a good bet, but I'll be happy to be wrong) that will make the information digestible.

The point is: Current sustainability is not future sustainability. The overpopulation crowd moves the goal post farther out every couple of years, because new technologies enable a higher carrying capacity. The same is true of education.

"SOME DAY WE MIGHT BE EXPECTED TO KNOW TOO MUCH STUFF!" = "I HAVE NO HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE!"

As far as tuition goes, yeah higher education is in a bubble. Everybody knows this. It'll burst and correct. Terrifying, I know.
 
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collegestud2013

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The tuition should only be a concern if you're at an expensive private med school (tuition at some state schools is very cheap, like in Texas), got no merit or need-based scholarships (many private schools give money to students who have above average GPA and MCAT scores), don't have parents contributing financially at all (about 20% of the students at the med school I go to have no loans, most of them because their parents are paying full), AND you're going into primary care down the line. As long as you're American MD and don't blow off Step 1 and 2 you shouldn't have to be stuck doing primary care.

Keeping up with the latest developments can be annoying but most physicians only use a small amount of it in their future practice, so there's no need to retain it forever...
 

Mad Jack

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Maybe OP is actually a secret gunner with gunnery level >9,000 trying to discourage other applicants.

Seriously though, just about every job you go into nowadays with a college degree, you're going to have a debt:income ratio of between 1-2, maybe 0.5-1 if you went to state school and a high paying field like engineering. Medicine is no different- state school and a high paying specialty will peg your debt:income at 0.5-1 while an expensive private school and a low paying specialty will put your debt:income at 1-2.
 
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Look at all these oversensitive yuppies here. They guy was just trying to share his opinions and let people know to think carefully about going into the field.

Maybe hes venting a little frustration? We all get frustrated during medical school and a lot of people think about dropping out but very few do in the end so let the guy rock
 
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235009

Look at all these oversensitive yuppies here. They guy was just trying to share his opinions and let people know to think carefully about going into the field.

Maybe hes venting a little frustration? We all get frustrated during medical school and a lot of people think about dropping out but very few do in the end so let the guy rock
You completely missed the point of the posters you're calling "oversensitive yuppies". Well done.
 
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You completely missed the point of the posters you're calling "oversensitive yuppies". Well done.
You're the one who told him that his comment doesn't even warrant any serious thought. If it doesn't warrant any serious thought then what are you commenting for? most of the replies he got were pointless and not even helpful, your post being one of them

Honestly the only people whose comments regarding the OPs topic should be taken seriously are people who have held a job outside medical school, not people who have only gone to medical school because then that's considered selection bias. LOL
 
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brianmed

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He raises a good point in that medical school is not for everyone. There's a good five percent of my class I feel like are so miserable and should never have bothered. There are alot of annoying things on the climb to medicine but if you truly love it as most people in med school do then it's worth it! Also the 40 pathways is one of those things you can learn once and never use again if you don't need to.
 
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A common misconception is that highly educated people somehow retain everything they've ever learned. They're just like you and me. They forget useless crap that is irrelevant.
 

DocWinter

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What exactly do you think IS worth it? What career are you going to offer as a good alternative that 10 years down the road, you are making six figure money, have job security as good as it gets, get to work with people and better their lives and are proud of accomplishing something.

Geez kid. With due respect to all those 22 year olds out there, you sound like you're 22, never held a job, paid a cell phone bill or rented an apartment. Life is hard, and if you can learn to embrace it rather than reject it, you might actually enjoy it.
 

bc65

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OP , sorry nobody told you what to expect.

Everyone else, let this be your warning: If you go to medical school, you will have to pay a lot of tuition, and you will be expected to learn a lot.
 

nowanmd

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Med School was certainly right for me. I previously worked in corporate America (I have a top tier MBA) Most people in the corporate world are miserable. It is a profession where you have to make it by 40 or you're screwed. No career path is easy or perfect. But only in medicine do you have excellent job security with decent pay. Try having a family and a mortgage and having no job security- that's the situation for most other professionals. So when I talk with friends (lawyers,cpas) they envy me.
 

chipwhitley

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What exactly do you think IS worth it? What career are you going to offer as a good alternative that 10 years down the road, you are making six figure money, have job security as good as it gets, get to work with people and better their lives and are proud of accomplishing something.

Geez kid. With due respect to all those 22 year olds out there, you sound like you're 22, never held a job, paid a cell phone bill or rented an apartment. Life is hard, and if you can learn to embrace it rather than reject it, you might actually enjoy it.
I think NP or PA would probably meet all of those needs, while at the same time being far cheaper and quicker than med school + residency. Not to mention the flexibility to switch to any field of medicine you want without additional training. Plus the OP wouldn't have to be worried about being tested on so many biochemical pathways.
 

chipwhitley

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Med School was certainly right for me. I previously worked in corporate America (I have a top tier MBA) Most people in the corporate world are miserable. It is a profession where you have to make it by 40 or you're screwed. No career path is easy or perfect. But only in medicine do you have excellent job security with decent pay. Try having a family and a mortgage and having no job security- that's the situation for most other professionals. So when I talk with friends (lawyers,cpas) they envy me.
Yes, everything but medicine is pure misery. Everyone should just try their best to be a doctor, and only if there is absolutely no hope should they even consider another career. :)
 

TBV

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I think NP or PA would probably meet all of those needs, while at the same time being far cheaper and quicker than med school + residency. Not to mention the flexibility to switch to any field of medicine you want without additional training. Plus the OP wouldn't have to be worried about being tested on so many biochemical pathways.
They do get tested on biochemical pathways but somewhat truncated. The obvious observation also says that they top out around 160K which was the absolute highest i have heard of from a PA and the envy for wanting to do what docs do. But other than that you hit it on the head it is a good route to medicine.
 

chipwhitley

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They do get tested on biochemical pathways but somewhat truncated. The obvious observation also says that they top out around 160K which was the absolute highest i have heard of from a PA and the envy for wanting to do what docs do. But other than that you hit it on the head it is a good route to medicine.
PAs might get tested on truncated biochemical pathways, but I'm pretty sure there is no biochemistry in NP school. Doctor envy might be there, but as far as the majority of the public is concerned, you do basically the same thing for them, so you'll get your respect. What exactly is it that docs do that they don't do, anyway? I've seen them do literally everything a doc does, even operate.
 

W19

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I think NP or PA would probably meet all of those needs, while at the same time being far cheaper and shorter than med school.
The expansion of NP/PA is getting a little bit scary... It's hard for NP to get a decent job in some part of the country now. I have two NP friends (former classmates) that are working as floor nurses. They are making 70k+ with good benefit working 36 hrs as RN; as NP they did not get good offer in term of benefit and and work/life balance, and the salary was marginally better than their RN salary...
 

chipwhitley

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The expansion of NP/PA is getting a little bit scary... It's hard for NP to get a decent job in some part of the country now. I have two NP friends (former classmates) that are working as floor nurses. They are making 70k+ with good benefit working 36 hrs as RN; as NP they did not get good offer in term of benefit and and work/life balance, and the salary was marginally better than their RN salary...
It depends on where you go. There are regional differences in demand and pay for MD/DOs too, as I'm sure you know. If you're willing to work anywhere, I don't think you'd ever be unemployed as an NP/PA, especially because you can work in any field.
 

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They do get tested on biochemical pathways but somewhat truncated. The obvious observation also says that they top out around 160K which was the absolute highest i have heard of from a PA and the envy for wanting to do what docs do. But other than that you hit it on the head it is a good route to medicine.
Some CRNA make 200k+/year... I worked with one that told me he makes close to 300k (that was in 2009), but he was working two jobs (anesthesia group and a dental office)...
 
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It depends on where you go. There are regional differences in demand and pay for MD/DOs too, as I'm sure you know. If you're willing to work anywhere, I don't think you'd ever be unemployed as an NP/PA, especially because you can work in any field.
Correct... I just wanted to point out that it can be difficult for them in some market...
 

chipwhitley

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Correct... I just wanted to point out that it can be difficult for them in some market...
Yeah. I think the OP has to realize that no one on this forum is going to agree that their decision to go into medicine isn't the best decision in all aspects because that's what they have to tell themselves to justify their decision and keep sane in this incredibly demanding career path. Just because they convinced themselves of it doesn't mean it's true, though.
 

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@chipwhitley To be honest, most who had a job before going into medicine understand there is no perfect job out there... Medicine is certainly demanding, but it provides good salary and job security that most other careers don't provide.
 
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wjs010

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Being a doctor is gonna be so ****ing awesome. It will be worth it n
 

DocWinter

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You realize that if you put as much time into starting businesses and finding a successful business (may take 1 or 2 tries) as you do in medical school for 10 years you will be making 100k's more than what doctors make and for work that you still love and for probably less work too.

I love medicine and I'm all about it that's why I'm doing it.

I'm just saying the circumstances around the career are making it not worth it........
I had no idea it was that easy. Here I had spent years owning my own businesses and never made more than a decent wage...silly me...but if I can make 100k's more with just a little more time than the 60hr workweeks I was putting in, I'll take your word for it. Off to submit my resignation.
 
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jw3600

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I love medicine and I'm all about it that's why I'm doing it.

I'm just saying the circumstances around the career are making it not worth it........
With what capital? In what industry? With what skills? Why would you have sustained control of market over competitors after your product is laucnhed? How long would your product remain relevant?

You are speaking in the generalities that I assume the average 19 year in undergrad does when someone asks him about his career plans and he replies: "business man."