Why should I spend 100K on M1-M2 when I could self-study for Step1 as a premed?!

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DrObvious

DrObvious

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Where is the value in M1-M2 for me?? Okay, so there's the labs, but surely that's not worth 100K...then there's some early clinical training, but surely nothing you wouldn't get through a much cheaper EMT course...and then there's what? In classroom lectures?? Puh-LEAZE, it's becoming clearer these days that online learning is a far far cheaper and more effective way for students to learn stuff (see Coursera, edX, et al -- don't bother disagreeing with me unless you've tried taking a course from them).

I assert that I, as a premed, am perfectly capable of chasing up and studying all of the information I need to blow away Step 1. I am probably in an even better position for this than a med student, because I can take it whenever I feel prepared, without loans, and without professors trying to stuff material down my throat that won't be on it. Then for clinical training I can just go become a certified EMT ($2000 max) and do volunteer work and/or get a job with it. The laboratories would be harder to replace, but I am pretty sure that the various graduate level laboratory courses in anatomy, histology, microbiology, etc that my local state school offers will go most of the way there ($300/credit). So then...what?? What would I be missing that 3rd year med students have? Aside from 100K in loans??

(And don't tell me that med schools won't allow this, that is obvious, the question is WHY they won't allow it)
 
DrObvious said:
Where is the value in M1-M2 for me?? Okay, so there's the labs, but surely that's not worth 100K...then there's some early clinical training, but surely nothing you wouldn't get through a much cheaper EMT course...and then there's what? In classroom lectures?? Puh-LEAZE, it's becoming clearer these days that online learning is a far far cheaper and more effective way for students to learn stuff (see Coursera, edX, et al -- don't bother disagreeing with me unless you've tried taking a course from them).

I assert that I, as a premed, am perfectly capable of chasing up and studying all of the information I need to blow away Step 1. I am probably in an even better position for this than a med student, because I can take it whenever I feel prepared, without loans, and without professors trying to stuff material down my throat that won't be on it. Then for clinical training I can just go become a certified EMT ($2000 max) and do volunteer work and/or get a job with it. The laboratories would be harder to replace, but I am pretty sure that the various graduate level laboratory courses in anatomy, histology, microbiology, etc that my local state school offers will go most of the way there ($300/credit). So then...what?? What would I be missing that 3rd year med students have? Aside from 100K in loans??

(And don't tell me that med schools won't allow this, that is obvious, the question is WHY they won't allow it)
Click to expand...

First
 
DrObvious said:
Where is the value in M1-M2 for me?? Okay, so there's the labs, but surely that's not worth 100K...then there's some early clinical training, but surely nothing you wouldn't get through a much cheaper EMT course...and then there's what? In classroom lectures?? Puh-LEAZE, it's becoming clearer these days that online learning is a far far cheaper and more effective way for students to learn stuff (see Coursera, edX, et al -- don't bother disagreeing with me unless you've tried taking a course from them).

I assert that I, as a premed, am perfectly capable of chasing up and studying all of the information I need to blow away Step 1. I am probably in an even better position for this than a med student, because I can take it whenever I feel prepared, without loans, and without professors trying to stuff material down my throat that won't be on it. Then for clinical training I can just go become a certified EMT ($2000 max) and do volunteer work and/or get a job with it. The laboratories would be harder to replace, but I am pretty sure that the various graduate level laboratory courses in anatomy, histology, microbiology, etc that my local state school offers will go most of the way there ($300/credit). So then...what?? What would I be missing that 3rd year med students have? Aside from 100K in loans??

(And don't tell me that med schools won't allow this, that is obvious, the question is WHY they won't allow it)
Click to expand...

$$$

/thread


Also, inb4:lock:
 
DrObvious said:
Where is the value in M1-M2 for me?? Okay, so there's the labs, but surely that's not worth 100K...then there's some early clinical training, but surely nothing you wouldn't get through a much cheaper EMT course...and then there's what? In classroom lectures?? Puh-LEAZE, it's becoming clearer these days that online learning is a far far cheaper and more effective way for students to learn stuff (see Coursera, edX, et al -- don't bother disagreeing with me unless you've tried taking a course from them).

I assert that I, as a premed, am perfectly capable of chasing up and studying all of the information I need to blow away Step 1. I am probably in an even better position for this than a med student, because I can take it whenever I feel prepared, without loans, and without professors trying to stuff material down my throat that won't be on it. Then for clinical training I can just go become a certified EMT ($2000 max) and do volunteer work and/or get a job with it. The laboratories would be harder to replace, but I am pretty sure that the various graduate level laboratory courses in anatomy, histology, microbiology, etc that my local state school offers will go most of the way there ($300/credit). So then...what?? What would I be missing that 3rd year med students have? Aside from 100K in loans??

(And don't tell me that med schools won't allow this, that is obvious, the question is WHY they won't allow it)
Click to expand...

Pay 100K for all the underground parties.
 
DrObvious said:
Where is the value in M1-M2 for me?? Okay, so there's the labs, but surely that's not worth 100K...then there's some early clinical training, but surely nothing you wouldn't get through a much cheaper EMT course...and then there's what? In classroom lectures?? Puh-LEAZE, it's becoming clearer these days that online learning is a far far cheaper and more effective way for students to learn stuff (see Coursera, edX, et al -- don't bother disagreeing with me unless you've tried taking a course from them).

I assert that I, as a premed, am perfectly capable of chasing up and studying all of the information I need to blow away Step 1. I am probably in an even better position for this than a med student, because I can take it whenever I feel prepared, without loans, and without professors trying to stuff material down my throat that won't be on it. Then for clinical training I can just go become a certified EMT ($2000 max) and do volunteer work and/or get a job with it. The laboratories would be harder to replace, but I am pretty sure that the various graduate level laboratory courses in anatomy, histology, microbiology, etc that my local state school offers will go most of the way there ($300/credit). So then...what?? What would I be missing that 3rd year med students have? Aside from 100K in loans??

(And don't tell me that med schools won't allow this, that is obvious, the question is WHY they won't allow it)
Click to expand...

Ya transferring renal patients from the rehab to the ED is basically the same as clinical rotations. Might as well only have EMTs transferring and referring patients from one EMT service to another for their care instead of involving doctors, nurses and other clinicians at all!

And I know for sure that when you print out your phony degree, it won't be on as nearly as nice paper as a degree from a university would be on.
 
Obvious troll but.... what the hell?

What makes you think the cost revolves entirely around having a physical room within which to convene each day?.... Are you going to make your own lesson plans? or do you plan to just skim through First Aid and think, as you implied, that its a simple equation of Labs + EMT report = diagnosis?

No, the classroom is not essential to these years (this is why many skip lectures and self teach based on the handouts and assigned texts). No, the classroom is not what costs all the money in your education 🙄

I would also say that true self-teaching is just not a thing regardless of how much some people try to argue otherwise. There is just too much information to learn and really integrate for someone to go in alone and come out after just 2 years with any certainty of success. Curriculum coordinators and course directors expend a good bit of effort compiling the relevant information in such a way that it can be synthesized by someone studying it, and tests serve to establish that you are organizing it correctly. I can't tell you the number of times I have read through something and thought I had it down only to find that the things I took away were not the things that were intended for me to. Good luck with your copies of Robbins, FA, and whatever texts they recommend for all the other crap out there if you plan to just study them and hope to come out with any real understanding of how these things really work.
 
Look at the post, then to the username, then back to the post.

Yeah.
 
Silverflash said:
Look at the post, then to the username, then back to the post.

Yeah.
Click to expand...

It's probably someone who wouldn't make it into medical school anyways who has rationalized that fact away as "well I don't WANNA go!" and has subsequently become convinced of his or her delusion and is now acting out on it.

But whatever, a valid response is still warranted for anyone lurking who may have a similar question.
 
I'll take the compliment :laugh: but yeah, people think I engage in these things out of some interest in just fighting with the guy I am arguing with. It doesn't bother me at all if some idiot wants to remain as such. But too often people are led astray by compelling idiots 😀
 
Because without paying 100K, you'll never come close to getting the chance to sit down for Step1
 
for those with enough autonomy, industry, and discipline who could study successfully on their own, OP does have a point that the cost is inflated based on what's provided to M1/2 students at least as regards book knowledge, despite how anathema it might be suggest so.

Of course, the med school structure provides opportunities and networking outside of solely the book material, and it also provides a more efficient streamlined way to obtain what's needed to know. I wouldn't say the cost is justified if the only thing you get out of it is efficiency of getting the knowledge. Rather, the cost is more strongly defensible when considering the opportunity obtained from being in the med school.
 
👍

Strong post. Good luck.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile
 
1stmeds said:
for those with enough autonomy, industry, and discipline who could study successfully on their own, OP does have a point that the cost is inflated based on what's provided to M1/2 students at least as regards book knowledge, despite how anathema it might be suggest so.

Of course, the med school structure provides opportunities and networking outside of solely the book material, and it also provides a more efficient streamlined way to obtain what's needed to know. I wouldn't say the cost is justified if the only thing you get out of it is efficiency of getting the knowledge. Rather, the cost is more strongly defensible when considering the opportunity obtained from being in the med school.
Click to expand...

there is also the fact that only about half of the quoted number actually goes to the school. Living expenses are included in student loans. The OP's point implies that people doing self-study are going to accomplish as much as those enrolled in the same time AND have the capacity to be self-supportive (most likely through gainful employment). This is not a valid assumption.
 
Nowadays I don't think it's difficult to approach or exceed 100k in tuition/educational fees alone in two years.
 
sucks to be you guys then :shrug: I am loaning out ~50k each year, and came in just over 100k after receiving my 4th semester's loans. More than that may not be "uncommon" but I think the norm is still between 200 and 250k for the full 4 years.
 
I can't find the thread but there was a recent discussion about this in the allopathic forum in which many agreed that the first two years could theoretically be taught successfully in a standardized distance/self-study format. However, schools have absolutely no financial interest in facilitating something like this even if a sizable number of students end up basically "teaching themselves" as it stands through recorded lectures, board prep books, etc.
 
CityLights said:
I can't find the thread but there was a recent discussion about this in the allopathic forum in which many agreed that the first two years could theoretically be taught successfully in a standardized distance/self-study format. However, schools have absolutely no financial interest in a facilitating something like this even if a sizable number of students end up basically "teaching themselves" as it stands through recorded lectures, board prep books, etc.
Click to expand...

I don't mean for this to be a back and forth, really.....

but, many schools (mine included) are running pilot programs with students that are approaching this. It isn't entirely self study, but close enough to feel out the potential for disaster on a full scale deal. This brings me back to my last point -

the classroom facilities are not the reason tuition is high. Many (most?) schools utilize the facilities of the university campus they are associated with when applicable, tuition is already heavily subsidized in most cases, and the schools aren't just stockpiling gold in their dragon caves.

What exactly is it that has so many convinced that if you were to go to online and self-study models that the cost of the first 2 years would be impacted at all, or that if we went to a "just pre-med it until step1 and make med school 2 clinic years" model that the cost wouldnt be shifted to those years simply to keep the current non-facilities budget viable?
 
what-if-I-told-you-you-wont-think-youre-so-smart-after-college2.png
 
Some people say college is a scam, and they're right. Of course, there's no other way to get a degree.
 
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