Why so few math majors

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meetsub

meetsub

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cause its hella hard yo!
 
It's because math doesn't relate to many of the premed classes, thus you would practically need a minor in bio/bio chem to satisfy the pre req classes.

Math majors tend to not easily be applicable to real life. After multi differentials/PDE, you don't use much of it. Think - I don't ever use abstract algebra (the class that made me rethink math as major). If you fail to get into med school, pure math is hard to find a job. Stats and Econ have a slightly better chance.
 
moisne said:
It's because math doesn't relate to many of the premed classes, thus you would practically need a minor in bio/bio chem to satisfy the pre req classes.

Math majors tend to not easily be applicable to real life. After multi differentials/PDE, you don't use much of it. Think - I don't ever use abstract algebra (the class that made me rethink math as major). If you fail to get into med school, pure math is hard to find a job. Stats and Econ have a slightly better chance.
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Two good points made here. 1) Math and Stats aren't "path of least resistance" majors. Nearly none of the prereq's are contained in their courses of study, compared to biology or biochem where all of the prereq's count toward one's degree. 2) Relatively poor back-up plan prospects. I'd wager most people with the mathematical inclination to do a math major would err toward engineering for the job prospects, even if their first choice is medicine and they're only looking for a back-up plan.

I'd add though, that maybe the small portion of the total applicant pool made up by math/stats majors is simply representative of their portion of the total undergrad population in the US. The closest thing I could quickly find was this, and unfortunately it lumps natural sciences and math together, so it's not too useful. I'd also speculate that people gravitate toward careers that utilize their strengths. Practicing medicine doesn't really require great mathematical prowess, again compared to something like professional engineering work. Someone willing to major in math presumably at least feels they possess strong math skills and might evaluate suitable careers as such.
 
We exist! I'm a math major too. And a girl at that! 😀

I love math; it also buffs your sGPA as well. I brought mine up from getting a C in Orgo I to a 3.3 just with math. It's given me a chance to do some historical research within math and I have the potential to be published this year. So my backup plan is grad school within a mathematical discipline, perhaps computational biology or mathematical modeling.

I need to take some pre-requisites still; I've vacillated on whether or not I wanted to go to a health professional school. But I like that I've made a nice crash pad for myself with math should Orgo II haunt my nightmares. By the way, if you all have any tips for a fellow math dork, what are they? That's the pre-req I'm the most nervous about.
 
I don't see math as a major that will take me somewhere. I was going to double major in biochem and math and I added math only because i think it's a great tool but for me it's only a "tool" to help me in biology, physics, chemistry and not a career by itself.

In addition, it does not really prepare you to med school and that's why biology and chemistry are the top major followed by all the others.
 
BeancheBlanco said:
speak for yourself...
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Math isn't everyone's strength, but it's a great advantage to have if it is. Orgo I is the only science class I've taken so far (I have AP credit for basic Bio and both semesters of Gen Chem); if I didn't pack my schedule with math, I'd still have a measly 2.0 sGPA. I am speaking from an n=1 experience.

Now, where's 39 other people so I can run some Z tests? 😀
 
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Conflagration said:
Math isn't everyone's strength, but it's a great advantage to have if it is. Orgo I is the only science class I've taken so far (I have AP credit for basic Bio and both semesters of Gen Chem); if I didn't pack my schedule with math, I'd still have a measly 2.0 sGPA. I am speaking from an n=1 experience.

Now, where's 39 other people so I can run some Z tests? 😀
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how far are you in your math education? It starts out relatively easy but the nerds get separated from the boys when you get to the proof-based classes. If you can do well in Analysis, then more power to you.
 
BeancheBlanco said:
how far are you in your math education? It starts out relatively easy but the nerds get separated from the boys when you get to the proof-based classes. If you can do well in Analysis, then more power to you.
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I have taken all three Calculus classes, two out of three Calc-based Statistics and probability theory courses, and I have Modern/Abstract Algebra and my third Calc-based Stats class next. 🙂
 
Ok. A couple points here. I majored in biochem and math in undergrad. All of the mathematics majors at my undergrad, all of them, had a job in hand before graduating. Surprisingly, the biochem majors who are pursuing research positions during their gap year are having a much harder time finding a well paying job. Two of my buddies coming straight from undergrad are working at a power plant making ~54K / yr. Several friends of mine have taken their actuary exams, where you are given a base salary based upon your performance. Unsurprisingly, they both started out above 75K/yr. Other friends have taken their skills over to wallstreet and will most likely make much more. I dare a person with only a BS in biochemistry to do the same.

As for myself, I've had 7 job offerings based upon my math major, while only receiving a single offering for a biological research position. Also, to say stats and econ have a better chance than pure math majors is ridiculous. Wherever a company hires people for econ or some other applied field of mathematics, you will also find pure mathematic majors being hired. Much like science, it depends on your specialization and field of research.

Saying math is not applicable to real life is the furthest thing from the truth. Ever heard of mathematical biology? Who do you think helps calibrate machines that rad oncs utilize? Who helps to make meaning out of the data scientific researchers obtain? In undergraduate, for every science project I conducted, I've been able to concomitantly approach the problem from a mathematical perspective. At least half of the time, the mathematical insights have been of more significance than the actual benchwork.

It may be true that classes such as abstract algebra, number theory, and elementary analysis are not the first tools of choice for direct problem solving, yet the basis they provide is required for applied mathematics. Even still, I was able to model cellular membrane dynamics using abstract algebra and ODEs. You are not the first to rethink being a math major after being introduced to abstract algebra. Abstract algebra and elementary analysis were MUCH harder than any science class I've taken. I can also attest to the fact that the math majors at my uni were consistently amongst the top performers in chemistry and physics.

If I were to speculate, I'd reason to say that many pre-meds don't chose a math major either because 1) their math skills are lacking 2) they dislike mathematics in general 3) The time commitment is significant when having to fulfill prereqs.

moisne said:
It's because math doesn't relate to many of the premed classes, thus you would practically need a minor in bio/bio chem to satisfy the pre req classes.

Math majors tend to not easily be applicable to real life. After multi differentials/PDE, you don't use much of it. Think - I don't ever use abstract algebra (the class that made me rethink math as major). If you fail to get into med school, pure math is hard to find a job. Stats and Econ have a slightly better chance.
Click to expand...
 
Conflagration said:
We exist! I'm a math major too. And a girl at that! 😀

I love math; it also buffs your sGPA as well. I brought mine up from getting a C in Orgo I to a 3.3 just with math. It's given me a chance to do some historical research within math and I have the potential to be published this year. So my backup plan is grad school within a mathematical discipline, perhaps computational biology or mathematical modeling.

I need to take some pre-requisites still; I've vacillated on whether or not I wanted to go to a health professional school. But I like that I've made a nice crash pad for myself with math should Orgo II haunt my nightmares. By the way, if you all have any tips for a fellow math dork, what are they? That's the pre-req I'm the most nervous about.
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Math major girl here too! :hello:
 
I agree with BrCo. As a math major you have much more possibilities after graduating. There are many options are school you can pursue and they're not that bad of options.
 
phunky said:
I firmly believe that math is the best undergraduate major. People rarely use anything they learned in undergrad in the real world, and if they do, it could have been learned from a book. I see the purpose of undergrad as learning how to think, and that's what a math major teaches you.

This is why math majors get the highest MCAT scores along with philosophy and physics.
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The pool of math majors is too small to arrive at such definite conclusions.
 
phunky said:
If you're a math major who knows how to code, employers line up to hire you. Everyone I know from my major is making great money and had multiple offers before graduation.

Math is seen as equivalent to comp sci by many employers and often opens other doors as well. It's very easy to be making 6 figures a few years after graduation.
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My institution requires an intro to programming course for a math major; and the statistics classes I have taken have shown us how to use some software and write code that way.
 
Very true. In the tech world, many times comp science majors are equivalent to math majors. In the financial world, companies also review physics majors and mathematics majors with equal interest.

The thought process needed to work your way through a proof is much different than that needed to memorize scientific knowledge. Companies hire math majors not because they mastered partial differential equations, but because they've been taught how to think in the manner needed.

phunky said:
If you're a math major who knows how to code, employers line up to hire you. Everyone I know from my major is making great money and had multiple offers before graduation.

Math is seen as equivalent to comp sci by many employers and often opens other doors as well. It's very easy to be making 6 figures a few years after graduation.
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2013factstable18.pdf

The pool is small, but most likely significant.
allenlchs said:
The pool of math majors is too small to arrive at such definite conclusions.
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Math/Biology double major here. It's always fun sitting in an upper level biology class watching people still struggle to grasp dilution calculations or the intuition of the Hardy Weinberg Equation.

Memorizing qualitative science with minimal reasoning skills will only bring you so far as a scientist. As it has been said in this thread, math describes much of the physical world and teaches one how to think.
 
I have no doubt that mathematics is a very valuable major that also pays well in the real world. It is undeniable that the scientific progress is due to advances in mathematics as well as other sciences and that many biologists, etc seek help from mathematicians to make sense of their data.

But if math majors do indeed score higher than bio majors, I think that's because students who can complete MCAT prerequisites and major in math probably have a higher academic aptitude and as a result score higher while many bio majors who take MCAT are mediocre students. In other words I think that pool of math majors taking MCAT is smarter than the pool of all bio majors but I would also like to note that if all of you guys majoring in math majored in something else, you would still get good scores on MCAT as the test itself doesn't test math skills. If all math graduates were to take MCAT, I'm sure they would score lower than all Biology graduates.
 
allenlchs said:
I have no doubt that mathematics is a very valuable major that also pays well in the real world. It is undeniable that the scientific progress is due to advances in mathematics as well as other sciences and that many biologists, etc seek help from mathematicians to make sense of their data.

But if math majors do indeed score higher than bio majors, I think that's because students who can complete MCAT prerequisites and major in math probably have a higher academic aptitude and as a result score higher while many bio majors who take MCAT are mediocre students. In other words I think that pool of math majors taking MCAT is smarter than the pool of all bio majors but I would also like to note that if all of you guys majoring in math majored in something else, you would still get good scores on MCAT as the test itself doesn't test math skills. If all math graduates were to take MCAT, I'm sure they would score lower than all Biology graduates.
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This. A math major is much more based on natural aptitude than bio/biochem/health science major. You can study your way to an A in any bio class given enough time (though "enough time" isn't always given), but sometimes math is something you either get or don't get.

I'd be interested in seeing how engineering and computer science students do on the MCAT, as those majors also seem fairly natural aptitude based. BME majors specifically have a very challenging courseload.
 
I was a math major and I'm a non-trad postbac now. I majored in math in undergrad because I enjoyed it and because I honestly did not care about my GPA (I'm dealing with that now). As much as I enjoyed my math education, it is much harder to get a high GPA in a math major (touched upon above -- you can't "brute force" higher math courses) and if I were considering med school at the time I probably would not have continued to take courses like Complex Analysis, Topology, etc, because I would have prioritized getting into med school over exploring upper level math courses.

The idea of upper level math courses "buffing up" an sGPA gave me a hearty laugh.
 
I think the reason there are so few math major premeds is that there are so few math majors period. I graduated from a school of about 5,000 and I was one of two math majors graduating that year.

Throughout my life I've overwhelmingly gotten one of two responses when people learn I majored in math:
  1. "Oh, I hate math."
  2. "So ... what do you plan on doing with that? Teaching math?"
On the contrary, though, as has been pointed out here, math opens more doors than many other majors. When I was job-searching, I continually found postings saying they required a bachelor's degree in "computer science or math" or "physics or math" or "finance or math" or "engineering or math."

As for GPA, I personally found it much easier to get A's in math classes than in humanities. In math, I knew for sure what the required material was and how to score highly. In humanities classes, though, I would frequently get a B on a paper with no feedback or indication of what made it a B paper as opposed to an A or C paper.
 
jared_the_great said:
I think the reason there are so few math major premeds is that there are so few math majors period. I graduated from a school of about 5,000 and I was one of two math majors graduating that year.

Throughout my life I've overwhelmingly gotten one of two responses when people learn I majored in math:
  1. "Oh, I hate math."
  2. "So ... what do you plan on doing with that? Teaching math?"
On the contrary, though, as has been pointed out here, math opens more doors than many other majors. When I was job-searching, I continually found postings saying they required a bachelor's degree in "computer science or math" or "physics or math" or "finance or math" or "engineering or math."

As for GPA, I personally found it much easier to get A's in math classes than in humanities. In math, I knew for sure what the required material was and how to score highly. In humanities classes, though, I would frequently get a B on a paper with no feedback or indication of what made it a B paper as opposed to an A or C paper.
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I agree. That is exactly why I don't find engineering to be a difficult major. I could do problem sets for days but don't make me write a paper!
 
Watching me write a paper is sort of like watching two blind men play tennis. For some reason I think they at least have more fun with it.
 
claduva94 said:
Sound's entertaining to watch 😉
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I'm sure my music major friends think it's a riot.

Then I tell them about how Pythagoras was the one that introduced the harmonic series and piss on their parade for a bit, and then we're even.
 
Conflagration said:
I have taken all three Calculus classes, two out of three Calc-based Statistics and probability theory courses, and I have Modern/Abstract Algebra and my third Calc-based Stats class next. 🙂
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it's coming, young padawan. It's coming.
 
I love math and science, so i did PHYSICS WOOHOO 🙂 besides partial DFQ and some linear algebra, im curious to know how applicable courses like abstract algebra are 😵
 
Cuz it's one of the easiest majors.

http://www.thebestcolleges.org/top-10-easiest-and-hardest-college-degree-majors/

/troll

Really though going to say that it may be because of the high demand for people with statistical analysis skills in... nearly every field, which you are more or less prepared for with a BS and a strong math thinking-cap. As a math major you have many viable and lucrative career options without pursuing further education. Physical science majors often need graduate degrees to do anything more than QA or "assistant" work in their field because the market is flooded with them and education in those fields at the UG level is not directly applicable to employable skills.
 
Refer to research work such as this, where representation theory is utilized in conjunction with linear algebra and differential equations. One may imagine the relations membrane symmetry has to physics and biology. In most cases, abstract algebra and analysis are not directly applicable, yet they provide the required framework for other disciplines to function.
http://people.brandeis.edu/~nstambau/Triangle.pdf

There still remains, however, numerous examples of direct application. Take for instance, complex analysis research giving rise to discrete fourier transform, which later became the basis for NMR, IR, MRI (read: rad onc, oncology, rads, IR, etc, etc.).

Additional information:
http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/phys/groups.htm
fmpak93 said:
I love math and science, so i did PHYSICS WOOHOO 🙂 besides partial DFQ and some linear algebra, im curious to know how applicable courses like abstract algebra are 😵
Click to expand...
 
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Math majors (with the exception of pure math, but I could argue on that end too) are probably the most employable major there is. The applied side falls into so many different realms like programming, engineering, data science, finance etc. An example to its application to medicine, Medical imaging. Stats is an exploding field with data analytics, bioinformatics. Pretty much everything needs some sort of statistical analysis to be made into an understandable form.

I'm not officially a math major, but I've finished the whole calculus series, DE, Linear Algebra and took Real Analysis this summer and have done my own studies in math for years. As far as abstract algebra, complex analysis and the like, although they fall under the pure end of mathematics, they teach you a way to think abstractly and conceptually that no other subject will even touch. That being said, most people that have the idea of majoring in math usually don't know what it entails (most think it is just Calc), and end up getting manhandled. It is something you don't want to major in unless you really know about it, it isn't like the typical bio, chem, etc classes where you just memorize info and do well.
 
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