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Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by camelinantartica, Sep 4, 2014.
why ? i don't get it.
Our economy isn't exactly doing so hot. Going to school for a period of a couple years until the next bull is a wise choice, financially. You're putting in a time investment during crappy economic times for a sure outcome: 6 figure salary. I'm sure a lot of people and their families are putting in pressure to pursue medicine for this very reason.
Medicine is the only profession left where you are basically guaranteed high income, prestige if you finish the training. Law has failed, some allied health is failing i.e pharmacy, the other markets are over saturated. Medicine has done a decent job of keeping numbers low, but DO schools are threatening that.
Also, now that I'm on the other side of things, its interesting to see so many people so eager to spend the best years of their lives studying all day. When you're pre med you think " when I get to med school it will be better" Med school is a lot of studying guys......ALOT. You rarely have time for anything else.
I'm studying with some new MS1's right now (Me MCAT, them med school classes) and they're like "What?! After 6+ hours of class, they expect us to study?!"
Because a lot of people want to be doctors. Medicine has always been an attractive profession.
It's easier and faster than working your way to the top of a given company and pays just as well, guaranteed, so long as you don't fail out. All while not being hated for being an evil corporate executive/banker/whatever.
I wouldn't say it's easier or faster. As a non-trad student, many of my peers from college already have solid, 6 figure corporate jobs (though they certainly aren't at the "top" yet). But as a physician you do get (ahem, earn) the luxury of being well-compensated in a career that actually helps others.
Try being in the hospital for 12hrs+ and still be expected to study... :\
50K for a year of schooling ?!
why not? when you're practically guaranteed a 6-figure income
talk to a doctor who has been practicing for a while. your monthly student loan payment will be more than your mortgage and car payment combined. these loans will become the ultimate "ball and chain". you just don't realize it when you sign the dotted line.
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Oh yeah, one of them was like...."I can't wait until third and fourth year...I'm so sick of having to study" And the other was like "ARE YOU KIDDING?! We'll have to study even more those years! Shelf exams are waaay more important!" And you should have seen the look on the other's face.
PAYE only eats 10% of your income per year. If you're making 200k+, you've still got plenty of money left over.
Our economy is still in a bull market phase because the S&P 500 is still going up. Companies might be oversaturated with workers, so it might be harder to get a job, but the U.S. economy is still going strong right now.
I think the reason for more applicants is because there are more college graduates now than before, so more people are applying. All I know is that at my undergraduate college, applications went up around 40% in the past four years. However, that includes international applicants.
As others have said, you max out at 10% of income. You can also get your debt forgiven after 10 years if you work for a hospital.
It's really not that bad, and I say that as an ex-banker.
I am sure that as an ex-banker you are financially savvy, but the average-joe-doctor won't know many things that you do.
The stock market is not the economy and is irrelevant for the vast majority of people. More people than ever are on food stamps and Medicaid. I'd say that indicates our economy sucks.
It's pretty simple. PAYE+PSLF=get out of debt damn-near free after 10 years.
I agree with Mad Jack. There are others who have IBR set up and even still with the big "tax bomb" at the end of 20-25 years, you are debt free.
Given the choice between struggling to find a job in the corporate world or a guaranteed position in the medical world, you basically just answered why there's so many applicants. I have as many friends that never ended up getting jobs in their field or were unemployed for months or years as I do those that actually ended up being successful. Why play the game when you've got a guaranteed win in medicine? Have you ever heard of an unemployed doctor (that wasn't a pathologist)?
I've discussed before how the tax bomb can end up being as large (or larger) than your debt ultimately is, because it can be pretty bad. But when you factor in the compound interest you can earn off of investments and the devaluation of the dollar over 20 years, the tax bomb become substantially less scary. I'll have to run the numbers for a person like myself (400k in debt) that goes into primary care and does straight PAYE without PSLF and see how the numbers look
I remember residents mentioning ways you can reduce the tax at the end and it made the whole loan thing seem not too bad.
Bull/bear markets are based on the stock market. Yes most of the increases are concentrated on the wealthiest people, but the U.S. economy is still strong right now. I checked from http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/ that SNAP participation has decreased by 1.4M people the past 12 months and Medicaid was expanded under the Affordable Care Act, so if participation increased, it's unclear how much is due to hardships.
Finding jobs is all networking nowadays unless the person has a highly desirable major, like computer science.
There isn't an over-saturation of workers, there is a paucity of hiring as companies attempt to boost profits by increasing worker productivity, without dealing with the risk of hiring and taking on large expansions of their operations.
I believe PSLF is not taxable, while PAYE is. It's why PSLF is such a no-brainer.
Good to know. Thanks.
I'm actually surprised at how many applicants there are this year so early. We're within a few hundred applicants of the total number of applicants from last year at my school and it's just the beginning of September.
I also noticed interesting trends (pure n=1, no scientific background), like schools going to their waitlist less and less each year. I was waitlisted at a school that traditionally takes ~40% of the class off the waitlist and only took about 1 - 2 off last year and some other schools have had similar results. The average age of medical students is also creeping up and a lot of people are taking 1+ year(s) off recently to strengthen their application and thus "jump in" with the traditional applicants in junior year. As others have mention, there are more reapplicants who would normally give up and do something else if not accepted believe that the job market is bleak and not much else to turn to so they are continuing to reapply. And finally, nontrads aren't uncommon anymore its very likely you'll be seeing a lot of people from second careers make the jump into medicine more so now than ever before.
So basically, as each year passes it'll just continue to get more and more competitive and things like an early application and applying broadly are more important now than ever before to compliment good GPA/MCAT/ECs etc. My friend is regretting not applying last year after hearing how many applications there are this year.
SUPPLY vs. DEMAND rule. If we have 200+ new schools open, then it wont be that hard to become a doctor (SUPPLY increase). Or if the government cap doctors' salary at let say 50k/year (Demand decrease)
Actually, the number of residency openings is kept artifically low, so even if there are 200+ new schools (which isn't true anyway), there's still ~ same number of doctors. Around where I live, many doctors would stay practicing (which reduces the number of openings for younger doctors) except the paperwork and stress is motivating many to retire.
7/10 trolling. Poor quality, but you netted quite a few bites.
Could just be trying to get premeds to not apply. Classic gunner trick of "ohhh medicine isn't worth it".
Actually, looking at the historical data it seems we haven't surpassed "peak competition" from the 90s. It's a cycle like anything else but I fully expect the competition to die down in coming years with hiring picking up and computer science and business firms being more aggressive with their hiring. Morgan Stanley just raised the junior banker salary by a significant ampunt (120k) and I expect other finance firms to follow suit in order to stay competitive. It signals a trend in the hiring market though I wont hold my breath for corporations to raise their wages. Those fields will become more and more popular in the coming years as they were in the early 2000s and 80s when medical applications were in a trough.
As I hear from the med students, you just make time.
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