Why Stress Over Undergrad?

[DendWrite]

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So, here's something I've been noticing the more I read and the more people I talk to: once one gets into medical school, what one did as an undergrad isn't really important, just like what one did in high school isn't important in college (unless it was really, really great).

And, from what I've heard, so long as one does not dream of going into academic medicine, pretty much any allopathic medical school gives someone an equal chance of getting into competitive residencies (excluding connections at school, and excluding the potential benefit of attending a "big name" school ... not trying to start a debate here or anything) with equal board scores, similar grades, etc.

This has all led me to believe the following: why stress out in undergrad when it's not really going to matter all that much in med. school? Why not start working really hard when it really matters (good residency placement) and enjoy the undergrad experience instead of doing a million things just to "try to get in?" Realistically, it just takes maintaining a decent GPA, studying for and doing well on the MCAT and doing a few ECs so as not to be a one-dimensional applicant. But why shoot for the 4.0 45T when the person with a 3.6 35S could beat you out for a residency based on board scores and med school grades since he/she wasn't as burned out with academics when he/she got there?

Is it dangerous to think this way or healthy?

 

[mtnman12]

I had to laugh..... Eh, 3.6, 35S, all in a casual stroll through the four years we call "undergrad."

I would say dangerous. Really though - and with that logic, why not save your strength until your an attending? You'll rise to the top in no time with all the time you spent relaxing.

I think the point of working hard is building the skills you need, but who knows! Maybe you're right in some ways.

 

[Emmet2301]

I think it's another way to think of things.

But know that the person with 4.0/45 might adapt to medical school better...

But also you need to work hard to get into a med school and it's not always someone with 3.6/35 gets in.

 

[miiki21]

The mythical 4.0/45 person will also very like get a full-tuition merit scholarship. I say that's quite a deal breaker.

 

[DrWookie]

I would just worry that after 4 years of "stress free undergrad" a person would have trouble adapting to medical school. It isn't as simple as "Okay now you start working hard", the study habits and processes you learn that help you do the best you can are things that are developed over time. So while you shouldn't be super stressed out in undergrad you should still work hard because you are building your studying skills etc...

 

[airplanes]

You stress so you give yourself the best possible chance of getting in. Chilling out during undergrad doesn't maximize your chances. People shooting for perfect grades and a high mcat don't often get it, but they wind up still competitive. Shooting for mediocrity gives you no leeway. You gotta play the game, your reasoning isn't quite as groundbreaking as you think.

 

[seelee]

So, here's something I've been noticing the more I read and the more people I talk to: once one gets into medical school, what one did as an undergrad isn't really important, just like what one did in high school isn't important in college (unless it was really, really great).

And, from what I've heard, so long as one does not dream of going into academic medicine, pretty much any allopathic medical school gives someone an equal chance of getting into competitive residencies (excluding connections at school, and excluding the potential benefit of attending a "big name" school ... not trying to start a debate here or anything) with equal board scores, similar grades, etc.

This has all led me to believe the following: why stress out in undergrad when it's not really going to matter all that much in med. school? Why not start working really hard when it really matters (good residency placement) and enjoy the undergrad experience instead of doing a million things just to "try to get in?" Realistically, it just takes maintaining a decent GPA, studying for and doing well on the MCAT and doing a few ECs so as not to be a one-dimensional applicant. But why shoot for the 4.0 45T when the person with a 3.6 35S could beat you out for a residency based on board scores and med school grades since he/she wasn't as burned out with academics when he/she got there?

Is it dangerous to think this way or healthy?

You're going to break a few hearts with this post, but I kinda agree with you.

The fact is that many pre-meds are neurotic perfectionist *****holes who spend every waking minute worrying about how what they are doing that particular minute is going to affect their application.

Too many are so utterly focused on getting into medical school that they forget to live their life in the present.

I do agree that one should work hard to do his/her best at whatever he/she sets out to do, but agonizing over supposed failures (read falling short of perfection) can't be healthy.

Of course, I am saying this after getting accepted.

My biggest beef is pre-meds trying to play the system to maintain an artificially high GPA. Dropping hard classes, taking easy classes to maintain high GPA, grubbing for extra (undeserved) points, etc. IMO, a high GPA is only as good as the integrity of the person who has it.

 

[Terpskins99]

This has all led me to believe the following: why stress out in undergrad when it's not really going to matter all that much in med. school? Why not start working really hard when it really matters (good residency placement) and enjoy the undergrad experience instead of doing a million things just to "try to get in?" Realistically, it just takes maintaining a decent GPA, studying for and doing well on the MCAT and doing a few ECs so as not to be a one-dimensional applicant. But why shoot for the 4.0 45T when the person with a 3.6 35S could beat you out for a residency based on board scores and med school grades since he/she wasn't as burned out with academics when he/she got there?

👍

 

[crasiman]

You're going to break a few hearts with this post, but I kinda agree with you.

The fact is that many pre-meds are neurotic perfectionist *****holes who spend every waking minute worrying about how what they are doing that particular minute is going to affect their application.

Too many are so utterly focused on getting into medical school that they forget to live their life in the present.

I do agree that one should work hard to do his/her best at whatever he/she sets out to do, but agonizing over supposed failures (read falling short of perfection) can't be healthy.

Of course, I am saying this after getting accepted.

My biggest beef is pre-meds trying to play the system to maintain an artificially high GPA. Dropping hard classes, taking easy classes to maintain high GPA, grubbing for extra (undeserved) points, etc. IMO, a high GPA is only as good as the integrity of the person who has it.

I think that, ultimately, these 'game players' may eventually realize they were missing out on something.

I've always tried to do what I wanted, and thought of my activities being more for me than for my application or the admissions committees. What's funny, though, is that this actually has the effect of making me a better applicant overall (I think). Even if it doesn't, it's certainly made me happy. Who knows, maybe that makes a difference to some people, and maybe some people are perfectly happy doing whatever it takes to maintain a high GPA.

I still think those who will succeed the most are those who can maintain a high GPA without sacrificing everything. Becoming very proficient at striking a balance between school/work and everything else is difficult, and those who've mastered it seem to have a leg up. That isn't me, my GPA isn't high enough to count as one of those people

To the OP: if you can cruise into med school... all the more power to you. There will always be overachievers, though, and they're probably the ones we'll have to thank when we're trying to figure out how all of this medical knowledge was first unearthed.

 

[airplanes]

You're going to break a few hearts with this post, but I kinda agree with you.

The fact is that many pre-meds are neurotic perfectionist *****holes who spend every waking minute worrying about how what they are doing that particular minute is going to affect their application.

Too many are so utterly focused on getting into medical school that they forget to live their life in the present.

I do agree that one should work hard to do his/her best at whatever he/she sets out to do, but agonizing over supposed failures (read falling short of perfection) can't be healthy.

Of course, I am saying this after getting accepted.

My biggest beef is pre-meds trying to play the system to maintain an artificially high GPA. Dropping hard classes, taking easy classes to maintain high GPA, grubbing for extra (undeserved) points, etc. IMO, a high GPA is only as good as the integrity of the person who has it.

Find the healthy balance. I cruised on occasion and worked hard when I needed to. I had a lot of fun along the way and don't regret putting in time and effort when it was necessary.

 

[alanine1985]

Realistically, it just takes maintaining a decent GPA, studying for and doing well on the MCAT and doing a few ECs so as not to be a one-dimensional applicant. But why shoot for the 4.0 45T when the person with a 3.6 35S could beat you out

Yea because chilling and living the easy life in college is going to get you a 3.6 and a 35 MCAT... haha yea I know there are a few extremely gifted people out there that could put in little effort and get a 3.6 and 35 MCAT. My hat is off to them but for the vast majority of premeds these numbers are going to take a lot of work, time, effort, and probably stressing out over it so you put even more work into making the best application to med school possible for yourself. Your future put in it what you want out of it.

 

[shnuffles]

Yea because chilling and living the easy life in college is going to get you a 3.6 and a 35 MCAT... haha yea I know there are a few extremely gifted people out there that could put in little effort and get a 3.6 and 35 MCAT. My hat is off to them but for the vast majority of premeds these numbers are going to take a lot of work, time, effort, and probably stressing out over it so you put even more work into making the best application to med school possible for yourself. Your future put in it what you want out of it.

👍 yea, those definitely are not numbers I associate with just slacking off in undergrad...

 

[BlitzSleep]

You stress so you give yourself the best possible chance of getting in. Chilling out during undergrad doesn't maximize your chances. People shooting for perfect grades and a high mcat don't often get it, but they wind up still competitive. Shooting for mediocrity gives you no leeway. You gotta play the game, your reason isn't quite groundbreaking.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'd rather stress now about getting in than later when it's too late to do anything about it.

 

[amph119]

Why try in life? You are only going to die anyway.

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

I found that the best way to deal with people who stress about every point, worry about every grade and who are Debbie Downers where it comes to kicking back and relaxing is to ignore them.

The same people who stress out in UG, stress out in med school. They work themselves up and can create a negative energy I can't be around.

There are more people who are not like this than are, and the separation between the group happens pretty quickly, so its not hard to avoid

 

[megamega]

Yea because chilling and living the easy life in college is going to get you a 3.6 and a 35 MCAT... haha yea I know there are a few extremely gifted people out there that could put in little effort and get a 3.6 and 35 MCAT. My hat is off to them but for the vast majority of premeds these numbers are going to take a lot of work, time, effort, and probably stressing out over it so you put even more work into making the best application to med school possible for yourself. Your future put in it what you want out of it.

I completely agree. I don't know of any university that will give you 3.6 GPA for slacking off. And I don't think you can breeze through the MCAT and get a 35 without trying.

 

[WhitJord85]

If you can "slack off" and pull the GPA and MCAT score to get you into med school... thats awesome... glad it worked out for you... But I think completely depends on the person. Some pre-meds will work their butt off to get the mid-range accepted stats... while some will take it easy and end up with top stats... so I'd take that advice with a grain of salt... I agree with the other posters... do the ECs that make you happy and you truely want to do... if you are just doing ECs for your med school app, you aren't really getting anything out of them... which makes it a complete waste of your time.

IMO... work as hard as you need to, to get the GPA and MCAT score you need... do the ECs you really want to do... and if the ECs you want to do aren't going to help you get into med school... perhaps you should re-evaluate your desire to go to med school

 

[Slack3r]

I had a 3.45 without going to class for 2 years before I ****ed it up (that's another story). Who knows what my MCAT will be, I still can't study more than 3 days in advance for anything. 🙁

Side note: which is probably why I'll be a re-applicant at least once.

 

[unique135]

Some interesting replies lol

The original post has the point. Not to be evaluative but, I am good at studies. But when I think what I am into, I often feel that the system is deteriorating my life. I have lost the balance. Thank god I am not one of those 24/7 freakshow. I slack off proudly lol. I don't attend my lectures and have taken 14 days break (5 days + reading week + 2 days) playing WoW...really good experience lol. Now I am back to studies 🙂

I know at some point I am reached the extremes but I think I have just unknowingly responded to pressure. blah blah blah...

to the point..you dont stress ...they make you stress...to make sure you can deal during your medical career. Also, they are looking for "consistency" to be able to tolerate it. Its simply preparing us. But you don't have to go through this like I don't but it is important you realize the purpose and atleast once a while go through such pressure. And RESPOND RIGHTLY AND ANALYZE YOUR RESPONSE..this is where doctors need to work. On the other hand, living in stress continously for 4+4+4 years can only lead to stressful lives. You might possibly be a best doctor on the earth but also a freak show.

 

[NotAndrew]

Why try in life? You are only going to die anyway.

👍

 

[DOquestions]

So, here's something I've been noticing the more I read and the more people I talk to: once one gets into medical school, what one did as an undergrad isn't really important, just like what one did in high school isn't important in college (unless it was really, really great).

And, from what I've heard, so long as one does not dream of going into academic medicine, pretty much any allopathic medical school gives someone an equal chance of getting into competitive residencies (excluding connections at school, and excluding the potential benefit of attending a "big name" school ... not trying to start a debate here or anything) with equal board scores, similar grades, etc.

This has all led me to believe the following: why stress out in undergrad when it's not really going to matter all that much in med. school? Why not start working really hard when it really matters (good residency placement) and enjoy the undergrad experience instead of doing a million things just to "try to get in?" Realistically, it just takes maintaining a decent GPA, studying for and doing well on the MCAT and doing a few ECs so as not to be a one-dimensional applicant. But why shoot for the 4.0 45T when the person with a 3.6 35S could beat you out for a residency based on board scores and med school grades since he/she wasn't as burned out with academics when he/she got there?

Is it dangerous to think this way or healthy?

When you are in undergraduate school, what you did in high school no longer matters.

When you are in medical school, what you did in undergraduate school no longer matters.

When you are in residency, what you did in medical school no longer matters.

When you are an attending, what you did in residency no longer matters.

So how do you get to the top? You keep pushing to do your best everyday no matter what stage of life you are in.

 

[dw2158]

So, here's something I've been noticing the more I read and the more people I talk to: once one gets into medical school, what one did as an undergrad isn't really important, just like what one did in high school isn't important in college (unless it was really, really great).

true, what you did in college doesn't matter much once you get in. but it matters a hell of a lot while you're trying to get in.

And, from what I've heard, so long as one does not dream of going into academic medicine, pretty much any allopathic medical school gives someone an equal chance of getting into competitive residencies (excluding connections at school, and excluding the potential benefit of attending a "big name" school ... not trying to start a debate here or anything) with equal board scores, similar grades, etc.

you can't get into "any allopathic medical school" if you don't do very well in undergrad. period.

This has all led me to believe the following: why stress out in undergrad when it's not really going to matter all that much in med. school? Why not start working really hard when it really matters (good residency placement) and enjoy the undergrad experience instead of doing a million things just to "try to get in?" Realistically, it just takes maintaining a decent GPA, studying for and doing well on the MCAT and doing a few ECs so as not to be a one-dimensional applicant. But why shoot for the 4.0 45T when the person with a 3.6 35S could beat you out for a residency based on board scores and med school grades since he/she wasn't as burned out with academics when he/she got there?

Is it dangerous to think this way or healthy?

lastly, the real reason i wanted to post: i think you're conflating stressing out (a negative connotation) with working hard (most definitely not negative, IMO). it is very possible to work extremely hard as an undergrad without "stressing out." many people who want to be doctors are motivated to do their very best at everything-- medicine is a challenging field with long and difficult years of training so it naturally is attractive to people who like to push themselves. don't assume that everyone who works towards a 45T and a 4.0 is a neurotic stress case.

 

[Evergrey]

I personally feel that I have a responsibility to achieve my potential as a human being. This stretches beyond trying to achieve good grades... I work my butt off in school, but I also do a lot of things because I enjoy them (doing two research projects right now, running an organization, etc) and they really bring value to my life. I think it's important to have a balance but what personally fulfills me and a lot of other people IS throwing yourself into your studies, commitments, AND your friendships/relationships.

I agree -- if you're consistently doing stuff just to be a medschoolapp-prostitute, then life is gonna suck for you. If you live your life to really LIVE it though, all of that stuff becomes moot IMO.

It seems for you that your freetime and casual pursuits are valuable to you. That's awesome! Don't give them up, I don't either. I try to make time for binge-drinking with friends, and all the other fun stuff like videogames. But do also make sure that you're living a life that satisfies you. I eventually realized that a casual life wasn't, which has resulted in my current state of being disgustably overworked. At the end of the day though, no matter how hard or sleep-depriving this is -- I love it.

 

[dw2158]

I personally feel that I have a responsibility to achieve my potential as a human being. This stretches beyond trying to achieve good grades... I work my butt off in school, but I also do a lot of things because I enjoy them (doing two research projects right now, running an organization, etc) and they really bring value to my life. I think it's important to have a balance but what personally fulfills me and a lot of other people IS throwing yourself into your studies, commitments, AND your friendships/relationships.

I agree -- if you're consistently doing stuff just to be a medschoolapp-prostitute, then life is gonna suck for you. If you live your life to really LIVE it though, all of that stuff becomes moot IMO.

It seems for you that your freetime and casual pursuits are valuable to you. That's awesome! Don't give them up, I don't either. I try to make time for binge-drinking with friends, and all the other fun stuff like videogames. But do also make sure that you're living a life that satisfies you. I eventually realized that a casual life wasn't, which has resulted in my current state of being disgustably overworked. At the end of the day though, no matter how hard or sleep-depriving this is -- I love it.

QFT 👍

 

[DOquestions]

If you get 100% on exam A and you start to slack off and get a 70% on exam B, your grade is now B (100 pt exams). So now you have to try extra hard on the next exam to push your grade up or your grade will be in the Cs after the next exam. Let's say you get 85% on exam C. Your grade now is a B once again. So now comes the final. Are you going to get a C, a B or an A in the course? It is like that in every college course when most of your grade is determined by 100 point exams.

If you get a 4.0 GPA your first two years in college and you only get a 3.0 GPA your last two years, that looks really bad. The opposite looks look (3.0 to 4.0).

If you get a 4.0 GPA and only get a 23 on the MCAT, I would call you "stupid" even with your GPA.

If all you do in college is go to class and never work a single job, you have no real world experience. So you go to medical school and start bitching about having to study on a Friday night or weekend and not get drunk.

If all you do is go to college, work some lame work study job for $7.60 an hour and just go to medical school and never do any research or try to get any publications or actually try to do some original research for at least once in your life, all you have done with your life is go to class. That is lame! That is called a life long student! Life long students have a hard time adjusting to the realities of this world!

When you get up in the morning and just coast, you are cutting yourself short and your are not respecting the hard work from those that came before you. Get your balls up in the morning and give it your best effort every single day until it is time to hit the sack in the nursing home.

 

[Arjuna]

So, here's something I've been noticing the more I read and the more people I talk to: once one gets into medical school, what one did as an undergrad isn't really important, just like what one did in high school isn't important in college (unless it was really, really great).

And, from what I've heard, so long as one does not dream of going into academic medicine, pretty much any allopathic medical school gives someone an equal chance of getting into competitive residencies (excluding connections at school, and excluding the potential benefit of attending a "big name" school ... not trying to start a debate here or anything) with equal board scores, similar grades, etc.

This has all led me to believe the following: why stress out in undergrad when it's not really going to matter all that much in med. school? Why not start working really hard when it really matters (good residency placement) and enjoy the undergrad experience instead of doing a million things just to "try to get in?" Realistically, it just takes maintaining a decent GPA, studying for and doing well on the MCAT and doing a few ECs so as not to be a one-dimensional applicant. But why shoot for the 4.0 45T when the person with a 3.6 35S could beat you out for a residency based on board scores and med school grades since he/she wasn't as burned out with academics when he/she got there?

Is it dangerous to think this way or healthy?

I think its very dangerous to think this way. You lose all sense of accountability and motivation if you think this way, and unless you are Linus Pauling or some other genius you cant possibly do well in a course if you have a carefree attitude. I can give you an example. I studied crazy hard for my first Orgo I test, and I got a A. I slacked off for the next one thinking there was no point studying as much, and I barely got a B. I got a good grade in the end, but after a lot of hard work catching up. The point is, at no point should you be coasting along in undergrad. Know this-there are thousands of premeds out there in the same year as you, who are working their asses off, and statistically, they will have a better chance than someone who just sits around surfing facebook and listening to the Ipod while thinking that college is a "joke" and that one should "enjoy" it as much as possible. Yeah right. Tell me how to enjoy college and still get decent (As) grades as a Biochem major WHILE balancing all the filler stuff we have to do for our apps (ECs, leadership, other ****). It just doesn't happen. Add in a varsity sport and your pretty much booked in college. I can tell you right now, your attitude isnt going to take you very far. I hope you arent aiming for a Caribbean school, or even worse no school. And as far as the caliber of med school is concerned, I dont care what anyone says on SDN, it definitely makes a difference if you go to a top twenty school vs DO/Carib. This is not condescending- its the truth. If people couldnt get into an MD school, its their fault-they didnt work as hard as others (there might have been extenuating circumstances but come on, lets be realistic, what are the chances?) and thus pay for it in the end. My relatives are doctors and they told me straight up that going to a good MD school is like a golden ticket- its enhances your chances at a good residency. Now people might say that it depends on your performance, and thats where I tell em that since people who get in are self selective, they pretty much do better than average anyway. But thats besides the point. Basically, what I am trying to say is that a premed who works for the grade should and will have a much better chance at med school than one who drinks, attends frat parties, and chases women all day.👎 Thats the truth. I have to go back to studying now.

 

[Kickback]

Basically, what I am trying to say is that a premed who works for the grade should and will have a much better chance at med school than one who drinks, attends frat parties, and chases women all day.👎 Thats the truth. I have to go back to studying now.

I would respectfully disagree with this statement. If someone has the ability to manage their time well enough to be able to do this and get into med school, more power to them. By no means am I this person 24/7, but my engineer friends and I do work in advance so that we can go out and get wasted at a weekday basketball game. If you really want to do it, you'll make time. And I have a pretty decent GPA so far doing this sorta thing.

I do agree with the overall sentiment. College should be viewed as the means to get a job, and taken seriously. But it also will be the time when you have the most freedom in your life to do the things you want to, especially for us going to medical school. Trust me, I am looking to go to a great med school, but I am setting up myself to do the best that I can in both med school and engineering.

Thus, I would think that the attitude presented by the OP is dangerous.

 

[RoadRunner17]

You still gotta jump through the hoops required to get to the next step... which then requires you to jump through more hoops to get onto the next step...

It never ends

 

[iduwanna]

Why try in life? You are only going to die anyway.

You make a great point.



BTW, I could use some rest ...


Can you write a note to my employer ... maybe tell them that I'm going to die?😳

 

[RoyBasch]

But why shoot for the 4.0 45T when the person with a 3.6 35S could beat you out for a residency based on board scores and med school grades since he/she wasn't as burned out with academics when he/she got there?

Hombre, you do realize that a 35S is ~93 percentile on the MCAT--way above the average? I wouldn't be so cavalier, the stuff you mention is easier said than done.
-Roy

Edit: also as other posters have said, you can work hard without necessarily being stressed out.

 

[Terpskins99]

I had a 3.45 without going to class for 2 years before I ****ed it up (that's another story). Who knows what my MCAT will be, I still can't study more than 3 days in advance for anything. 🙁

Side note: which is probably why I'll be a re-applicant at least once.

Just fyi, procrastination in medical school is academic suicide.

There is zero chance you'll survive medical school unless you abandon this particular habit.