Why?

[gpannu]

I'm sure this question has been examined time and time again: why medicine? In fact, today I spoke to my roomates cousin who is on an admissions commitee at a prestigous Canadian medical school. Let's just say the conversation was very hostile. Nevertheless it really made me think and ticked me inside.

I want to know from most of you pre-meds is what motivated you to go into medicine?

In other words why did you choose medicine, over dentistry, optometrey, pharmacy, law? In all these careers you can help people. All these careers pay well. For instance, dentistry appears to offer the best return on your education four years of school and a six figure salary with 9-5 hours. All these careers have some level of prestige/status. All these career allow one to utlize their scientific background perhaps with the exception of law (not including patent or IP law). All of these careers involve interaction with people? All of these careers are very challenging and involve life long learning and intense study. All of these careers offer some degree of job security.

What is causing you pre-meds to trek on this hard and difficult journey. What inside your gut is causing you too choose medicine?

Also, I have another question that should be considered seperate from the above. If you were only going to make $50,000 per year as a docotor would you still become one. Would you sacrfice all those years in school, time, social life, and to some extent family life to pursue a career in medicine.

Please don't think i'm some money hungry bum...that couldn't be farther from the truth. But, i'd be lying to you if i didn't say some of the attraction to any of these careers is the financial reward. However, I firmly believe that money should not be your sole interest in choosing a career it should be a consideration. Ultimately one should choose something that ignites their heart....

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[Dr. Xavier]

Why not?

 

[gpannu]

why not?...

 

[calebho501]

See, if you're really having a hard time coming up with an answer, maybe you should seriously think whether it's b/c you can't articulate the true reasons into words, or it's b/c you don't really have a good reason to apply...

 

[gpannu]

I'm asking other's what their drive. THese are my reasons

1. Job security
2. Intellectually challenging
3. I enjoy the ascpect of using scientific knowledge and using it to problem sovle (ie love case studies...find the work challenging but very interesting ie.patinet x walks in with the following symptoms)
4. I always been intrigued by diseases and their mechanisms of action
5. I love working with people and solving thier problems
6. Enjoy biology;
7. $$$$


Again....what is everyone elses motives.....

 

[kmnfive]

See, if you're really having a hard time coming up with an answer, maybe you should seriously think whether it's b/c you can't articulate the true reasons into words, or it's b/c you don't really have a good reason to apply...

haha.. now thats kinda below the belt.

 

[umass rower]

Originally posted by gpannu
Also, I have another question that should be considered seperate from the above. If you were only going to make $50,000 per year as a docotor would you still become one. Would you sacrfice all those years in school, time, social life, and to some extent family life to pursue a career in medicine.

This is a question that I hear brought up all the time, and I find it a little absurd. And for some reason, everyone uses 50k as the hypothetical salary. Doctors' salaries could never conceivably be set that low with the current cost of education in the US. Allow me to demonstrate.

Let's say you go to a private college, for whatever one of the various reasons to go to a private school. Then, you apply to med schools, and get into a private med school, too. Let's say you're one of those people that gets screwed by the financial aid system because your parents make a good deal of money, but want you to make it on your own, so they don't give you any of it. Thus, you borrow money in the form of loans to pay for your undergraduate and medical schools. With the cost of education, this could conceivably run somebody in debt to the tune of half a million dollars, accrued over 8 years. Yes, this is a worst case scenario, but note that nothing has really gone wrong, it's just a scenario based on circumstances. Even if the money was coming from the parents it would be a losing investment, but I'm assuming it's all in loans just so we keep all the debt in one place.

Now, if you make 50k a year, you will lose roughly 13k in taxes. You will also lose 14k in malpractice insurance, at the cost in 1996 (the last year I found stats for quickly). It's undoubtedly higher now. Now, if you graduate college at 22, med school at 26, and finish residency at 30, you can begin paying off your debts then. Even if your loans had a 0% interest rate, and you put 100% of your remaining salary into paying off the debts, you wouldn't begin earning a penny for yourself until you were 52. NOBODY would take that job. It would be a losing investment almost every time. Why take that job when you can be an EMT with a high school diploma, with no debts to pay off?

So basically, the whole "doctors are just in it for the money" argument is BS. Doctors get paid well because they put in more years of training and education than pretty much any other occupation, their work really is a matter of life or death, they put in long hours, and because they are typically some of the brightest and hardest-working people in the country.

I think that while most people think "doctor" and quickly associate it with "money", I don't think very many people go into medicine because of the money. There are too many trade-offs to earn that money. Very bright people could make a boatload of money in professions like investment banking, corporate law, management, or politics, but the qualities specific to medicine are what keep drawing people into the profession.

 

[DAL]

If I knew I was going to make 50K as a doctor I couldn't afford to become one after borrowing the money to obtain the education. Getting my MD falls perfectly in life with my goals in life. I am hesitant to divulge too many of my reasons on this board because often times I think people are just looking for ideas to include on a personal statement or put in a secondary.

 

[juddson]

Gpannu,

Why was the conversation you had with the adcom guy tunr hostile? Was it because he or she basically shot down every reason you could come up with? Did it seem that NOTHING you could say would convince them of your true desire to be in medical school. Just curious.

Judd

 

[juddson]

Umass rower is begging the question.

Clearly, the 50k salary hypthetical is meant to take into account all of the expenses that you have so dutifully listed. You're just avoiding the question. Let's see if I can make it more explicit for you. Suppose that being a doctor meant the following for all doctors:

1) state supported med school (4 years)
2) residency (3 years)
3) Federal single payer system where the average "salary" for a physician was 50k before taxes
4) Because medicine is considered a public good, malpractice insurance and tuition are subsidized 100% by the state.

Now, who wants to be a doctor?

I'm guessing some people, still (after all, plenty of social workers like what they do), but certainly MANY less than appear to want to be doctors now.

To suggest that it is somehow possible to seperate the promise of a high salary from the propensity to be a doctor is ridiculous. There would NOT be 37,000 applications for 14,000 spots if doctors were paid like teachers.

I suspect that some of you will certainly get an interview question like this and I urge you to be honest. Saying that you would be want to be a doctor no matter what--even if they were paid like teachers--is going to be met with skepticism unless certain extenuating circumstances are present. I intend to be honest. I'd probably say something like,

"there are many appealing aspects to being a physician and a high salary is not least among them. I think one has to be honest with himself, and I wouldn't be if i sat here and said the a high salary wasn't one of the factors I consider. Look, if doctors were paid like teachers, I think there would be a lot less people trying to get into medical school. This is not to say money is everything (or even most of everything), but doctoring is EXTREMELY skilled, and it seems to make perfect sense that they would be paid fairly well.

Anyway, take it from me--the last thing you should do it chase the money. I used to be an attorney, and was making 6 figures right out of law school at the age of 25. Money isn't everything--and cannot begin to compensate you for doing something you don't love. BUT, money IS something. And to suggest otherwise is patently dishonest.

Judd

 

[juddson]

DAL is also avoiding the question. That is the easy way out. You need to assume the educational cost is not likewise crushing.

Judd

 

[gpannu]

Hey Juddson, I recognize your name from a previous post. I defered and decided not to go into law school because it seemed like I was attending for the wrong reasons: couldn't get into medicine, it's a profession, it pays well (I guess relatively well). In my opinion, only corporate lawyers or lawyers graduating in the top 10% of their class make money. Also the trade off in law: work hours, salary, and love of the work was not worth it. It seems to me that all the money in law is in coporate law, I find corporate law boring because I don't value the work. To me it's just making money for a corporation. I don't think I could do that for very long. Also I don't like the lifestyle lawyers live. Too many hours of work for little pay unless you or in corporate law or a partner. Also adding to the fact that I find corporate law boring it's a horrible way to make money....

Anyhow, the reason why I posted is because I have some degree of interest in medicine and I'm trying to determine if it's a good fit for me. I've decided to shadow a Neuropsych, a opthomolagist, and a family gp. I'm hoping the experince will further motivate me towards this career. Does anyone have any other ideas as to what kinds of activites I can engage in to figure out whether or medicine is right for me.....please don't say reasearch I have no interest in lab work.

The adcom guy was hostile because he hates people he go into medicine for the money. He thinks you shouldn't consider money rather you should find something that makes u tick.......a bit of a jerk if u ask me.

In my opinion, I don't think so many people would be applying to the professional careers if money wasn't a consideration. Like we have all alluded money shouldn't be the primary consideration but it's defnitley important. After all we are all investing in our futures and it make sense to consdier the return on your investment.

 

[valliumv]

isn't dental school only 3 years?

 

[gpannu]

4 years.

 

[Anka]

With regard to the original question -- I reject your premise. To decide to do something, I don't have to reject one-by-one every other possibility. Think about the way you decided what to eat for breakfast this morning. You look and you're strongly attracted to something, and you eat it. Did you go and say, "I want rice krispies. I reject corn flakes because, given my background and interests, and my long history of rice enjoyment, and my volunteer experience with rice farmers in Uganda, I would enjoy rice krispies more. I reject lucky charms because ____. I reject eggs because ___." If you did that, you would be the most indecisive person on the face of the earth.

Granted, we should go through and carefully consider other possible careers, but only to the extent necessary to understand that other options are out there. And which careers would we consider? Well, the other ones to which we feel attracted in some way. So, if you like arguing or whatever it is that attracts people to lawyerdome, it might make sense to have an explicit answer to the question, "why not be a lawyer?" But if you really have no attraction whatsoever, and don't get why anyone would be attracted to it... then you shouldn't have to come up with an explicit reason. It's just something you have no desire to do.

Best,
Anka

 

[AvgApplcnt]

I think the adcom guy's response stems from the fact that there are certain unmentionables in the medical profession. Money being the prime taboo. Everybody know's money controls most of our decisions in life, like where we live, eat, socialize, etc. but how often does anybody use a lack of money as an excuse. not often in my opinion. Even though money does control our actions we just don't say anything, especially when it comes to trying to explain why we chose to pursue medicine. I think it's very reasonable to say money is an important factor in our decisions, mostly because of the financial security medicine offers. Nobody takes a job without security; we need to know where the next rent check is coming from and medicine ensures continuous paychecks. Of course money isn't the ONLY reason to pursue medicine since lots of other ways exist that don't put you in to so much debt.
Other things you're not supposed to mention are specialities like plastic surgeory, radiology, or derm. These folks make lots of money and lots of people go into a life of giving women bigger breasts solely for that reason. Plastics, Radio, and Derm are highly competative because of the pay they offer. So for any adcom to get pissed cuz you mention money is ridiculous; this ignores the fact that the biggest money makers are among the most competative. Anyway, just my $.02. Don't mention $$$.

 

[canadagirl]

You know, I used to interview people for a volunteer position at my school. It was the kind of thing that looked great on a med school application, and we KNEW that the people applying were thinking, amongst other things, "this'll get me a great reference letter!"

But when we asked people "Why do you want to join this organization?" we did NOT want to hear "It'll help me get into med school" or "I need another reference letter." Of COURSE the people who didn't say it were thinking it too ... but you want to hear the OTHER reasons in an interview situation. Presumably they also wanted to join us for reasons that would be helpful to us and not just to them - that's what we wanted to hear about. People who gave the medical school answer were generally not accepted.

It's the same thing with the money issue - yeah, one of the reasons people pick medicine is because it is a safe, lucrative, and stable profession. But you've also got other good reasons, right? Use those in an interview.

edited to add: anka, your post is hilarious!

 

[AlternateSome1]

I don't understand why the system is built up like this. If medical schools are going to reject every person who decides they want to go into medicine for money, people will start saying they want to do it for X. The problem is just compounded since only the people whom are convincing liars are accepted from the original pool of applicants (of those who wanted to go in for money, not those with other motives). Doesn't it make more sense to evaluate how suitable a person is for medicine without asking why? If you were to ask engineers and lawyers why they were going into their fields and then rejected those that said "Money", are you going to get all of the qualified applicants? Does being motivated by money really eliminate the potential that a person has for doing a good job?

I am sorry for the rant. I don't think money is the end all to everything, I just don't think it is important to know why a person wants to do something, just so long as they are capable and are working hard for it. I am really anxious about the whole interview process because of how much B.S. is involved in the fact that there are answers that are "right" or "wrong", and since interviews are very subjective evaluations of a person.

~AS1~

 

[kito]

I just don't get what the big stink is about. What's wrong with saying that you want to be a physician to provide a good life for your kids, and to make life better for others?

 

[Robz]

Believe it or not, I did not know how much physicians made until I looked it up AFTER I turned in my AMCAS application this summer. I knew they were paid fairly well (as should be for giving up so much in pursuit of the profession) but I never looked up the figures before. It was when someone asked me point blank what certain specialties made that I didn't have an answer for them, so that made me search it out. 🙄 I think in a way, it proves that I really want this and I am not as driven by money. Not that I would turn it down either, heck I still drive an 86 Blazer!

P.S. Umass Rower I love the quote from The Hitchhickers Guide to the Galaxy!

 

[docmemi]

Hello,
I am having trouble articulating my reasons. Also, it is sad/unfair that my reasons have become a cliche. What the hell do I do...its not my fault my reason is also the most common reason others give...maybe its a good reason that everyone uses it!?

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
trojan man