Wilderness Medicine Fellowships - Work life?

[KeikoTanaka]

Hey all,

I have questions for people who have completed a Fellowship in Wilderness Medicine.

I just joined the Wilderness Medicine Club at my school and will be participating in a "Wilderness Medicine Adventure Race" come September. I'm a huge outdoor geek and i'm athletic (and obviously passionate about medicine) so i'm excited about doing this and combining all my interests - but to be honest I've never considered Wilderness Medicine as an option before this.

My questions are:
1. What type of jobs are available in this field? (Specifically in New England, I want to live in Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine area)
2. What is the pay for this type of work?
3. How often do people work jobs? Are you on-call? Do you register with certain parks and they'll call as you need?
4. How much overlap is there with Sports Medicine? A lot of sports have outdoor components (Skiing/Mountain biking/snowboarding,etc)
5. Is Emergency Medicine the only residency with a path to Wilderness medicine, or can Family Medicine be a path to this?

Thanks guys 🙂

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[RustedFox]

I reserve the right to be wrong, but "Wilderness Medicine" is in the same boat as "Sports Medicine" with regard to "knock it off".

Wilderness Med, Chapter 1:
Get the hell out of the wilderness and get to a hospital. Now, knock it off.

Sports Med, Chapter 1:
Use this as an excuse to wear a polo and a headset, and give discerning looks while close to the sideline. Then, get the hell off of the field and get to a hosptial. Now, knock it off.

My site medical director just went to a wilderness med conference in Big Sky. We're good buddies, so he came back and gave me his summary of the experience.

"I learned a lot about the dangers of the wilderness and the relevant pathophysiology... but the treatment is the same - 'get the hell off of the mountainside and get to a hospital'."

 

[KeikoTanaka]

I reserve the right to be wrong, but "Wilderness Medicine" is in the same boat as "Sports Medicine" with regard to "knock it off".

Wilderness Med, Chapter 1:
Get the hell out of the wilderness and get to a hospital. Now, knock it off.

Sports Med, Chapter 1:
Use this as an excuse to wear a polo and a headset, and give discerning looks while close to the sideline. Then, get the hell off of the field and get to a hosptial. Now, knock it off.

My site medical director just went to a wilderness med conference in Big Sky. We're good buddies, so he came back and gave me his summary of the experience.

"I learned a lot about the dangers of the wilderness and the relevant pathophysiology... but the treatment is the same - 'get the hell off of the mountainside and get to a hospital'."

So what exactly is your role in this process as a EM Wilderness physician? Are you on site getting them to the hospital? Seems more of a job for an EMT. Or are you waiting in the hospital for their arrival and you are the expert at treating their environmentally induced symptoms

 

[RustedFox]

So what exactly is your role in this process as a EM Wilderness physician? Are you on site getting them to the hospital? Seems more of a job for an EMT. Or are you waiting in the hospital for their arrival and you are the expert at treating their environmentally induced symptoms

Now you're catching on as to why these designations are silly.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Not sure, really. Maybe carves out an academic research niche for you at places that care about having a Wilderness person on their faculty? I know people that do mountain rescue stuff without this fellowship, so I don't think it really opens up doors clinically.

 

[RustedFox]

I feel the need to clarify myself.

Dude. I hope you find total fulfillment with your career. The *northern* New England area is awesome. I don't mean to be "a hater (nonspecific)"

But when it comes down to it, when I hear the terms "sports medicine" or "wilderness medicine"

my first thought is "knock it off."

 

[enalli]

I reserve the right to be wrong, but "Wilderness Medicine" is in the same boat as "Sports Medicine" with regard to "knock it off".

Wilderness Med, Chapter 1:
Get the hell out of the wilderness and get to a hospital. Now, knock it off.

Sports Med, Chapter 1:
Use this as an excuse to wear a polo and a headset, and give discerning looks while close to the sideline. Then, get the hell off of the field and get to a hosptial. Now, knock it off.

My site medical director just went to a wilderness med conference in Big Sky. We're good buddies, so he came back and gave me his summary of the experience.

"I learned a lot about the dangers of the wilderness and the relevant pathophysiology... but the treatment is the same - 'get the hell off of the mountainside and get to a hospital'."

Agree on wilderness medicine, but you're way off on sports medicine.

You're thinking of being a court-side physician, but sports medicine is way more than that. They have clinics where they mainly manage musculoskeletal injuries nonoperatively, with PT, injections, etc. Most of these are run by the family medicine departments and the bulk of their specialists go from this route. There are also orthopedic surgery sports medicine fellowships, but I think those are more operative.

 

[RustedFox]

Agree on wilderness medicine, but you're way off on sports medicine.

You're thinking of being a court-side physician, but sports medicine is way more than that. They have clinics where they mainly manage musculoskeletal injuries nonoperatively, with PT, injections, etc. Most of these are run by the family medicine departments and the bulk of their specialists go from this route. There are also orthopedic surgery sports medicine fellowships, but I think those are more operative.

I fail to see how you refute my axiom of "Get off of the field".
Sure, they have clinics, and those are cool.
Do clinic medicines.
That's not "I'm on the sideline doing critical medicines [sic]."
Are you hurt?
That sucks.
Get off of the field, and get to the ER.
Sports medicine = get off the field.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

I feel the need to clarify myself.

Dude. I hope you find total fulfillment with you career. The *northern* New England area is awesome. I don't mean to be "a hater (nonspecific)"

But when it comes down to it, when I hear the terms "sports medicine" or "wilderness medicine"

my first thought is "knock it off."

I think Sports Med is a bit different because it can actually offer you the ability to work in a completely different setting - this other specialty, I agree, seems to be more in line with a specific niche. Like I'd love a Wilderness EM Doc on sight at Olympic games or perhaps at the ED in a rural vacation ski resort etc - but seems extremely niche to be worth it unless you really love it and are willing to shift your whole life style for it.

Also I think SM specializes well in Concussion management and therefore also offers another niche to bring to a court-side physician. But anyone without a sports med degree can see if they hit their head hard enough to take them out haha.

I'm interested in SM more for the clinic aspect more than the sideline aspect.

 

[dpmd]

Isn't wilderness med certification mostly so you can write off your hiking and skiing trips as business expenses because there are a few classes thrown in?

 

[RustedFox]

I think Sports Med is a bit different because it can actually offer you the ability to work in a completely different setting - this other specialty, I agree, seems to be more in line with a specific niche. Like I'd love a Wilderness EM Doc on sight at Olympic games or perhaps at the ED in a rural vacation ski resort etc - but seems extremely niche to be worth it unless you really love it and are willing to shift your whole life style for it.

Also I think SM specializes well in Concussion management and therefore also offers another niche to bring to a court-side physician. But anyone without a sports med degree can see if they hit their head hard enough to take them out haha.

I'm interested in SM more for the clinic aspect more than the sideline aspect.

Concussion management?

Here's concussion management.
CT brain.
Done? Normal.
Okay. You have a concussion.
Sucks.
Here are medicines. You'll feel better like, after a few days or weeks.
Kthxbye.
This is sports medicine.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Concussion management?

Here's concussion management.
CT brain.
Done? Normal.
Okay. You have a concussion.
Sucks.
Here are medicines. You'll feel better like, after a few days or weeks.
Kthxbye.
This is sports medicine.

Lol, it's kind of true. I shadowed a Sports Med doc once. I did enjoy the PCP role he took for college athletes. But when we were in the concussion clinic, he diagnosed the concussion and proceeded to allow the Vestibulo-PT handle all the rest lol

 

[RustedFox]

Lol, it's kind of true. I shadowed a Sports Med doc once. I did enjoy the PCP role he took for college athletes. But when we were in the concussion clinic, he diagnosed the concussion and proceeded to allow the Vestibulo-PT handle all the rest lol

Oh, and the vestiblo-PT did "all the rest", which is nothing.
OH, cute. Turn the head, turn it again. Turn it a third time.

Guess what ? You're still dizzy, as$shole.'
That was expensive. Good thing there's a university to pay for it all.
Kthxbye. Lol.

 

[WildcatS11]

Oh, and the vestiblo-PT did "all the rest", which is nothing.
OH, cute. Turn the head, turn it again. Turn it a third time.

Guess what ? You're still dizzy, as$shole.'
That was expensive. Good thing there's a university to pay for it all.
Kthxbye. Lol.

Someone needs a drink...

No judgment. Me too.

 

[enalli]

I fail to see how you refute my axiom of "Get off of the field".
Sure, they have clinics, and those are cool.
Do clinic medicines.
That's not "I'm on the sideline doing critical medicines [sic]."
Are you hurt?
That sucks.
Get off of the field, and get to the ER.
Sports medicine = get off the field.

I didn't think I needed to refute it. Yes, you've accurately simplified court-side medicine, but that's only like 1% of what sports medicine is. I mean, the "get off the field" mantra breaks down completely when in clinic.

I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with court-side medicine. It's kind of like saying "emergency medicine is when you consult surgeons to take patients to the OR". Sure, that accurately describes some of what we do, but that's not all we do.

 

[Frazier]

The large portion of the subspecialty's value is in academics and personal interest.

Some residency programs have wilderness fellowships, the folks that head those fellowships whether as PD, APD, or full professor will likely have completed a wilderness/austere medicine fellowship... even more so into the future.

Some folks just want to be at the top credential form for their niche. Zero wrong with that. So to hit that level formally, you do a fellowship.

If you want to work at a 4 year residency as an attending and graduate from a 3 year program, it helps to have done an academic fellowship. If wilderness is cool to you, great check the box off with that subspecialty.

Disclaimer: Relatively unbiased. I am not doing a wilderness fellowship.

 

[Rekt]

A gimmick to sell to clueless people applying EM. Probably as useful as a Simulation fellowship.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

A gimmick to sell to clueless people applying EM. Probably as useful as a Simulation fellowship.

Well, as gimmicky as the fellowship may be, I am probably going to enjoy this Wilderness Medicine Adventure Race cuz this seems super dope haha but, in reality, will probably only come in handy in my own personal life rather than professionally. I'm a hunter, huge hiker, outdoor enthusiast, so I may run across these people in need out in the field - but I'm 100% certain an EM doc without Wilderness Medicine fellowship can handle these patients

 

[Doctor-S]

Hey all,

I have questions for people who have completed a Fellowship in Wilderness Medicine.

I just joined the Wilderness Medicine Club at my school and will be participating in a "Wilderness Medicine Adventure Race" come September. I'm a huge outdoor geek and i'm athletic (and obviously passionate about medicine) so i'm excited about doing this and combining all my interests - but to be honest I've never considered Wilderness Medicine as an option before this.

My questions are:
1. What type of jobs are available in this field? (Specifically in New England, I want to live in Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine area)
2. What is the pay for this type of work?
3. How often do people work jobs? Are you on-call? Do you register with certain parks and they'll call as you need?
4. How much overlap is there with Sports Medicine? A lot of sports have outdoor components (Skiing/Mountain biking/snowboarding,etc)
5. Is Emergency Medicine the only residency with a path to Wilderness medicine, or can Family Medicine be a path to this?

Thanks guys 🙂

1. Feel free to contact some wilderness medicine programs and ask them your questions (because they should have timely information that is relevant to your future interests and goals).

(a) To get you started, here is the link to Stanford Wilderness Medicine Fellowship: Wilderness Medicine Fellowship and here is the link to the University of California San Francisco Wilderness Medicine Rotation: Wilderness Medicine Rotation.

(b) Wilderness Medicine fellowships are also offered at Yale, UC San Diego, University of Utah, University of Colorado, Massachusetts General Hospital, and many others Schools of Medicine and medical centers.

2. Many times, there is no pay, or it varies (e.g., transportation, food), or you might secure a special/professional gig for pay (e.g., base camp mountain climbing expedition, expedition-length ultra-marathon). For serious injuries/ailments, the goal is to stabilize the patient and evacuate ... you know ... get the patient to the emergency room/urgent care for "all-hands-on-deck" professional care and treatment. Otherwise, you assess and treat injuries/ailments within your scope of practice.

3. You can apply/sign-up for work with different groups (e.g., with a base camp mountain expedition). By the way, you need proper malpractice insurance coverage for this type of practice. So, check your policy and discuss with your insurer before trekking to Nepal!

4. I don't think there is much overlap with sports medicine. Once again, the goal is to assess, stabilize and evacuate serious injuries/ailments. If the injury/ailment is not serious ... well ... that's good news.

5. Some wilderness medicine people are EM physicians who love the OUTDOORS. However, any physician can pursue training in wilderness medicine. You might not be eligible for certain wilderness medicine fellowships if you're not an EM physician (e.g., Stanford), but you can still complete wilderness medicine courses, seminars and training. It's up to you, depending on your goals, skills and interests. Just don't quit your day job. 😎

 

[DeadCactus]

Apparently the point of a wilderness medicine is to trigger people on internet forums.


1. What type of jobs are available in this field? (Specifically in New England, I want to live in Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine area)

The short answer is none. The longer answer is that a WM fellowship is not like a cardiology or critical fellowship where you earn a title that drastically changes your practice setting. There are no jobs that require a wilderness medicine fellowship. It's an academic fellowship where you have protected time to develop clinical and research experience in a field you find interesting partly out of pure self-indulgence and partly to adjust the flavor of your career. It's closer to being the EKG or airway guy in a group than being a nephrologist or transplant surgeon.

2. What is the pay for this type of work?
3. How often do people work jobs? Are you on-call? Do you register with certain parks and they'll call as you need?

See above. Your job is generally whatever day job your primary certification would normally get. There are too many models for how people incorporate wilderness medicine into their career to cover them all. Maybe you work in a mountain town and volunteer with the ski patrol. Maybe you're an academic attending and spend your research time studying issues in wilderness medicine and giving relevant lectures to the residency. Maybe you get a job in remote location or sign up for the military. Maybe you manage to get a paying gig on a well funded expedition. None of these require a fellowship, but the fellowship gives you a chance to focus on something you are interested in and nerd out on it under the guidance of a bunch of other well-read, experienced nerds.

4. How much overlap is there with Sports Medicine? A lot of sports have outdoor components (Skiing/Mountain biking/snowboarding,etc)

There can be a lot if you want to make that your area of focus or there can be no more than you learned in your primary specialty. Depending on a person's goals, it might make more sense to get sports medicine training somewhere with a wilderness medicine program and to focus on being a sports medicine physician with an interest in wilderness athletes than vice versa.

5. Is Emergency Medicine the only residency with a path to Wilderness medicine, or can Family Medicine be a path to this?

It's not ACGME accredited and doesn't lead to board certification so the only limiting factor is who the programs want to train.


You do a wilderness medicine fellowship because you really want to nerd out on it, network, and get involved in the academics of it. For people who just want to buff up there relevant knowledge and maybe do some volunteer or low pay work, the FAWM through WMS is likely a better option.

 

[gro2001]

A gimmick to sell to clueless people applying EM. Probably as useful as a Simulation fellowship.

Of all the nonsense in this thread, this is the nonsense I think needs to be refuted the most.

I did not do a sim fellowship. I do, however, use a lot of simulation in teaching. For example, I got rid of all lectures in the clerkship I run and replaced them with simulation cases. I think it took me about a year and a couple of courses to learn to debrief well. And I don't think that's a sign of me being a slow learner. It's just a complex skill set that needs many hours of practice. You can do a lot of damage to learners if you don't do it properly. Or at the very least you can make simulation experiences practically useless if you don't know what you are doing with curriculum development, scenario design, assessment methods, debriefing, confederate training, etc. It takes time, effort, and instruction to learn all that. A year of learning from more experienced people on how to run high quality simulations, learning to do it yourself, running them often, and designing your own curriculum for the first time can be incredibly useful to the career of anyone who is interested in education. If one combines it with some formal education teaching (some sim fellowships come with a master's in education), that's even better.

 

[gro2001]

Oh, and the vestiblo-PT did "all the rest", which is nothing.
OH, cute. Turn the head, turn it again. Turn it a third time.

Guess what ? You're still dizzy, as$shole.'
That was expensive. Good thing there's a university to pay for it all.
Kthxbye. Lol.

As others have said, you are reducing sports medicine to just the court side work, which is a small portion of what those folks do. But even for that, there are some complex decisions being made in terms of who gets to return to play. Yeah, a concussed football player has to sit out. But how do you tell who is concussed? Are you going to bench everyone who gets hit in the head? That's obviously not going to work for a pro team. And when can they return? Next game? After two weeks? Next season? Never? How can you tell?

I am not a sports medicine physician. There's a whole sports medicine hospital just down the road from me though. I am sure they are not doing nothing. Yes, a large part of their work is surgical and PT stuff, but the non operative folks do a lot too. A colleague of mine does a lot of work on athlete screening. Theres a lot of research on extremes of physiology, recovery and healing, etc. And even just deciding who to refer for surgery is a ton of work. Sports surgeons want to be operating, they want to do as little clinic time as possible. Someone has to examine all these people with MSK injuries and decide who needs what treatment. I don't understand how it's not clear that that's like a full time job.

 

[gro2001]

Wilderness Med, Chapter 1:
Get the hell out of the wilderness and get to a hospital. Now, knock it off.

That's partially true, and I think I understand what you are getting at. Yes, wilderness medicine careers aren't going to be what a lot of people vaguely interested in outdoorsiness imagine, and you don't actually do that much in the field. There are reasons Auerbach has more than one chapter though. Plan A may be evacuation (and wilderness medicine folks have no problem saying that), but what if you can't evacuate? Or maybe evacuation is delayed? Or maybe there is something you can do to facilitate evacuation. Suddenly knowing how to improvise some solutions may be not as ridiculous as it previously sounded.

There is also some overlap with toxicology (envenomations, plants, etc); environmental medicine stuff, high altitude physilogy, etc. There are some teachniques worth learning for back country stuff. In terms of jobs/roles that actually use that knowledge as opposed to just running overpriced CME courses, the most obvious ones would be expedition planning. That's very niche, but someone has to write guidelines for agencies and stuff in terms of what to prepare for austere conditions, what's useful and what's not. It would be nice if people who do that have both hands on and academic experience with medicine in austere conditions.

I think the careers that really make sense for this pathway are ones which combine a personal interest in outdoors with a research interest (say in heat related illness, high altitude physiology, etc) or with some other field (interesting overlaps with wilderness/disaster prep, wildnerness/aerospace, wilderness/ems, wilderness/tox, etc).

 

[RustedFox]

Replying to [multiple posters above]

I know. I'm reducing this to a joke. That's the point of my post. There's plenty more to SM and WM than "knock it off", but that's a whole lot of it; AND if I have one more clueless pre-med or med student ask me about "sports/wilderness" medicine, I'm going to scream. It doesn't help that 99% of these students exhibit the exact same stereotype of "we like to run obstacle course races becuz they're super dope, lolz". I also live/work in an area that seems to have one of these obstacle course races going on every other month. They're AGITATING as hell. Working on "race day" equates to having volume surge by 100-200%, not having the staff to keep up with it, and dealing with people who aren't really hurt but are also pissy because they "just want to get in and out fast". Taking a phone call from the "sports medicine" guy on-site is always the same: "I'm going to take 10 minutes to tell you that this idiot has a boo-boo and I'm sending him for (and they always say this) evaluation and treatment." Really ? No $hit? That's what I do with 100% of my patients. I evaluate and treat them. Thanks for pointing that out to me, jacktard.

I get it. I'm an outdoorsy type, too. A lot of us are. Spent my teenage years hunting in Appalachia. Love the hiking/biking/beers thing. The past three vacations I have taken with my wife have been to the mountains. We're going to Asheville again for our wedding anniversary next month. I just hate the whole "I want to go into sports medicine" kid who doesn't know what that means.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Replying to [multiple posters above]

I know. I'm reducing this to a joke. That's the point of my post. There's plenty more to SM and WM than "knock it off", but that's a whole lot of it; AND if I have one more clueless pre-med or med student ask me about "sports/wilderness" medicine, I'm going to scream. It doesn't help that 99% of these students exhibit the exact same stereotype of "we like to run obstacle course races becuz they're super dope, lolz". I also live/work in an area that seems to have one of these obstacle course races going on every other month. They're AGITATING as hell. Working on "race day" equates to having volume surge by 100-200%, not having the staff to keep up with it, and dealing with people who aren't really hurt but are also pissy because they "just want to get in and out fast". Taking a phone call from the "sports medicine" guy on-site is always the same: "I'm going to take 10 minutes to tell you that this idiot has a boo-boo and I'm sending him for (and they always say this) evaluation and treatment." Really ? No $hit? That's what I do with 100% of my patients. I evaluate and treat them. Thanks for pointing that out to me, jacktard.

I get it. I'm an outdoorsy type, too. A lot of us are. Spent my teenage years hunting in Appalachia. Love the hiking/biking/beers thing. The past three vacations I have taken with my wife have been to the mountains. We're going to Asheville again for our wedding anniversary next month. I just hate the whole "I want to go into sports medicine" kid who doesn't know what that means.

I know what it means - I've scribed for an Orthopedic surgeon who did a SM fellowship for a very long time on top of shadowing extensively PC-SM docs. I get a lot of people are like "I love football and beers bro, I wanna do sports medicine" - but that isn't me. I love SM for a lot of other reasons - I'm not even into sports, but I like the pathology and the pt population. As for WM, I legitimately had questions about the profession. I've never done one of these races but since I signed up, it piqued my interest. That doesn't mean i'm going to run off and do the fellowship. But thank you Gro2001 for your input - sounds pretty interesting. Maybe if I develop a research interest in the future it'll be something I consider

 

[RustedFox]

I know what it means - I've scribed for an Orthopedic surgeon who did a SM fellowship for a very long time on top of shadowing extensively PC-SM docs. I get a lot of people are like "I love football and beers bro, I wanna do sports medicine" - but that isn't me. I love SM for a lot of other reasons - I'm not even into sports, but I like the pathology and the pt population. As for WM, I legitimately had questions about the profession. I've never done one of these races but since I signed up, it piqued my interest. That doesn't mean i'm going to run off and do the fellowship. But thank you Gro2001 for your input - sounds pretty interesting. Maybe if I develop a research interest in the future it'll be something I consider

I figured you weren't one of the clueless mouth-breathers that approach me and say "what about sports medicinez?"
We like what we like.
I have tons of pre-meds and MS 1-4s that fit that stereotype in my little city.
They haven't learned dog$hit yet - but they like SPORNTS and WILDERNESSES.
That's about as deep as that gets.

 

[sylvanthus]

Ive done FAWM and am finishing up DIMM and would recommend just doing FAWM and DIMM through the WMS while in residency, don't waste a year. Alot of the wilderness medicine fellowships pretty much do FAWM and DIMM during that year anyhow.

You can likely start FAWM while a student, just fyi. From my experience thus far DIMM is far superior as you actually learn technical rescue skills (High angle rescue, mechanical advantage systems, avalanche rescue, ice axe arrest, crevasse rescue, etc etc etc). FAWM is pretty much a money grab as you earn "credits" in a bunch of topic areas and need 100 credits to finish. It becomes a huge pain in the ass the further along you get because you cannot have too many credits in one topic area. So, alot of people end up buying videos on topics not typically covered to finish off their last 10 credits or so. Just an fyi DIMM will likely cost you around 14,000 with all the equipment needed and tuition for the modules. And if you want letters after your name you can be like the nurses and put FAWM and DIMM after your name, yaaaaayyyy. Im still trying to find some cert that lets me put wtfbbqomg111 after my name.

 

[deleted109597]

As a Fellow of the Academy of Wilderness Medicine, I can tell you that the role isn't just "rescue ranger" on the hillside. But it's also not something you can make a career of either.
The overlap with EMS physicians, retrieval, wilderness, and travel medicines are pretty large.
If you are academic, wilderness gives you a niche in a field without a ton of research. You can climb the academic ladder that way. It also lets you write off a whole bunch of travel experiences as business expenses, as you're researching Lake Louise or whatever.
Where it's fun is when you become an expedition doctor. You end up doing a lot of austere or improvisational medicine.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Speaking of, I do not believe we have discussed the details of the cave rescue of that soccer team from Thailand on this forum.

The untold story of the daring cave divers who saved the Thai soccer team — National Geographic

Incredible that they ketamine’d these kids, put them in a sack and got them all out safe. I really wonder if anyone would have the guts to try that in the US, if parents would consent, etc.

As a Fellow of the Academy of Wilderness Medicine, I can tell you that the role isn't just "rescue ranger" on the hillside. But it's also not something you can make a career of either.
The overlap with EMS physicians, retrieval, wilderness, and travel medicines are pretty large.
If you are academic, wilderness gives you a niche in a field without a ton of research. You can climb the academic ladder that way. It also lets you write off a whole bunch of travel experiences as business expenses, as you're researching Lake Louise or whatever.
Where it's fun is when you become an expedition doctor. You end up doing a lot of austere or improvisational medicine.

 

[deleted109597]

Yeah, Richard Harris is a pretty cool guy. I would think some of the people in the US would probably also do it.

 

[ThreadStalker]

Too bad no one who has actually done a wilderness fellowship has replied to this thread, it would be interesting to hear their opinion.

It makes me think, though, that whatever you actually do with a wilderness med fellowship, apparently it doesn't involve staring at a computer screen stalking internet forums and waiting for an opportunity to say negative things about topics you don't like.

Maybe I should do one after all... 🤔

 

[dchristismi]

I haven't done a Wilderness Medicine fellowship... but I did just write off a ridiculously amazing and expensive trip to Bhutan because it was technically a WM course. Hella fun small group of docs who are now friends, hiking (and eating... and drinking), and evening lectures, which were really more like forums. Would totally recommend it. And I suppose with a WM fellowship, you could be the guy teaching the course, and getting the trip for free.

Guy who did ours was awesome, and does them regularly. THAT might be the best potential benefit, aside from being a med director of a mountain rescue group or something.

 

[miacomet]

The two Wilderness fellowship-trained EM docs I know both just work in the ER, pulling shifts like the rest of us.

 

[deleted109597]

It's tough to get on the lecture circuit. It's a tight knit group.
But as I mentioned before, we work in the ED 90+% of the time.

 

[deleted109597]

Docs gone wild: The risks and rewards of wilderness medicine

The popularity of adventure tourism and extreme sports creates the need for doctors trained to care for patients in austere conditions with limited resources.

news.aamc.org

AAMC did post this in an effort to oversaturate literally every field.