Will 8 signals for Neuro serve as a soft-ish cap?

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folgersormh

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8 isn’t super high and obviously IM has almost twice as many which is why people are calling that a soft cap, but for neurology I feel that 8 signals might act as one too… though we can’t know for sure and I’m just having fun speculating. 8 is an awkward number of signals. People don’t apply to *that* many neuro programs as is, and while 8 is too little for the average applicant, I can see applying to more than like 15 would have diminishing returns. Any insight?
 
Essentially yes. Most USMD people will match in their top 5 let alone top 8 (unless of course they are a top applicant and only rank top 10 programs then there’s a chance they could fall).

So be smart with your signals - depending on the strength of your application. I wouldn’t waste them on “safety” programs because those programs will hardly get any, but will interview based on geographic region most likely
 
Essentially yes. Most USMD people will match in their top 5 let alone top 8 (unless of course they are a top applicant and only rank top 10 programs then there’s a chance they could fall).

So be smart with your signals - depending on the strength of your application. I wouldn’t waste them on “safety” programs because those programs will hardly get any, but will interview based on geographic region most likely
Thanks for the insight! Do you think applying to 15-16 programs might be logical this cycle for an average MD candidate? I know there’s no knowing how things will shake out, just curious.
 
Thanks for the insight! Do you think applying to 15-16 programs might be logical this cycle for an average MD candidate? I know there’s no knowing how things will shake out, just curious.
I wouldn’t gamble with your future. You might end up in Family Medicine.
 
Things may have changed significantly since I applied to neuro (was still in-person) but back then applications to 30+ programs were common. You never know what program you'll like or where you'll end up.
 
Thanks for the insight! Do you think applying to 15-16 programs might be logical this cycle for an average MD candidate? I know there’s no knowing how things will shake out, just curious.

This is always a loaded question. Are you an average MD candidate that will only apply to 15ish community program, 8 of which you signal, in the Midwest where you are from?

There’s lots of ways to tackle this depending on the above and your risk aversion.

I’m no super authority figure on this, am open to further discussion via PM but generally my advice for most would be to not apply to less than 25 or so, but for some 15 is plenty and others 80 is the target
 
I would just apply to 80 or so. What’s the difference of a few thousand in the grand scheme of things
 
There are published reports from AAMC that may be worth looking at: ERAS® Statistics

The "math" here is complex. The impact of signals will depend upon 1) the number of signals, 2) the number of applicants, and 3) the number of programs. I am assuming that all applicants will use all signals -- any other strategy is foolish. Keeping everything constant, increasing the number of signals will have an overall linear effect on the number of signals received by programs. Increasing the number of applicants would do the same. Increasing the number of programs would decrease the impact of signals (all else constant).. It also depends upon the number of interviews each program offers (i.e. the interview:slot ratio).

But, it's more complicated than that because we know that signals do not distribute evenly. The top 10% of programs will get 25% of the signals, and the top 25% of programs will get 50% of the signals. Hence when we increase the number of signals, they won't distribute evenly.

From a program standpoint, there are three possibilities:
1. A program could have nearly all applicants signal. In that case, there's little benefit to considering signals at all, and the import of your signal will be small.
2. A program could have "just enough" applicants signal so they can pick their interviewees only from signaled apps.
3. A program could get too few signals. IN that case, they will need to review their non-signaled apps for interviewees, and you could get an interview without a signal.

From looking at the data link above (and the presentations on signals):

The average number of applications by USMD students to Neurology programs was 43 in 2024.
Signals resulted in about a 50% interview rate, where non-signals resulted in a 10% rate. (Again as above, this is an average and the actual impact on each program will vary based upon their signal rate)
Specialties with large numbers of signals saw lower levels of non-signaled interviews. At the extremes (i.e. Ortho), the rate was essentially zero without a signal.
As the number of signals increases, the distribution of signals becomes more even.

It's impossible to tell whether Neuro increasing from 3 to 7 signals will push it into "the ortho zone". Probably not. One might be able to predict this by calculating a "signal density" which I have completely made up and is (# of applicants X # of signals) / # of slots. This gives you a signal/open slot ratio. Programs want to have rank lists that are often at least 10:1 for their slots (some more, some less). Data above shows a signaled interview rate of around 40-50%. Hence one might expect that once the signal density goes above about 20 or 30, the chances of getting an interview if you don't signal should drop precipitously. Neuro's signal density last year was 8. With the increase to 7 signals, it would rise to 18. IM, EM, GS, Psych all have signal densities of 7-20 and have non signal interview rates of 5-10%. Ortho has a signal density of 56 and has a non-signal invite rate of 1%. Derm is similar. But this isn't perfect -- Interventional Rads has a density of 30 and a non-signal interview rate of 15% which is suprisingly high.
 
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