will an OTH Discharge kill this application?

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kent christoph

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obvious bad stuff out of the way: OTH military discharge at 19😡. Two withdrawals and an "F" freshman year, first semester in human biology.(retaken, got an A)

age:26(spent 4 years working menial jobs. Started school @ 22)

ugrad: Kent State University

major: psychology

gpa:3.807

GPA with "freshman forgiveness" policy:3.91

science gpa:3.7(A's in everything short human biology course, as stated above)

MCAT:33

other: Lots of volunteer work, particularly with local nursing homes. State certified EMT, 2 years.


thoughts? Thanks so much
 
obvious bad stuff out of the way: OTH military discharge at 19😡. Two withdrawals and an "F" freshman year, first semester in human biology.(retaken, got an A)

age:26(spent 4 years working menial jobs. Started school @ 22)

ugrad: Kent State University

major: psychology

gpa:3.807

GPA with "freshman forgiveness" policy:3.91

science gpa:3.7(A's in everything short human biology course, as stated above)

MCAT:33

other: Lots of volunteer work, particularly with local nursing homes. State certified EMT, 2 years.


thoughts? Thanks so much
I'm not sure how med schools will view a military discharge, but note that there is no academic forgiveness on your AMCAS. It will show all your grades, even if your school doesn't count them in it's GPA alone..
 
well, your numbers are quite solid, so yeah it all comes back your original question. I don't know either but I wouldn't imagine it to be a total dealbreaker. Good luck.
 
I agree w/ the previous poster. You have good numbers. I have no clue what an OTH discharge is, i just looked it up on Wikipedia, so take my ignorance for what its worth. I think you probably dont stand a chance at USUHSC but other than that, uh...I dont get why medical schools would really care.
If you were in a country where there was mandatory military svc (like Israel or I think Taiwan)I could see why a discharge wld be a problem...but I dont see why US schools would care.
 
what you do to get oth?
 
what you do to get oth?

That is an important question.


Honestly, there isnt enough data for us to know. My feeling is that it will probably be treated as a crime showing moral turpitude, meaning, very poorly.

LizzyM will be able to answer better.
 
We went over this in early December. I still haven't seen one of these on an application so I can't say how they've been handled in the past.

I'd suspect that the applicant would be "forgiven" as long as no one's life was endangered and no violent behavior or disrespect was involved.
 
are they even going to find out? If they never ask, it's not dishonest to leave it out. You don't exactly have a lot of years between high school and college that seem completely devoid.


but what did you do?
 
can someone who knows what OTH discharge is please explain? I dont get why this is such a problem.
acc to wikipedia (great source rite?), these are some common reasosn for discharge:
  • Expiration of Term of Service (ETS)
  • Disability, Dependency, or Hardship
  • Pregnancy/Parenthood
  • Physical or Mental Conditions that interfere with military service
  • Convenience of The Government/Secretarial Authority (voluntary redundancy due to funding cutbacks, for example)
  • Unsuitability
  • Misconduct - Minor Disciplinary Infractions
  • Entry-Level Performance and Conduct
so like lets say the OP is a girl, how is pregnancy a crime? how about disability? or physical conditions that interfere w/ military service? what if he/she developed some sort of medical condition. what if its something like that? i dont get it as long as they dont ask him, what kind of "MISCONDUCT" did you do (meaning it was some sort of military-ish crime), if he just leaves it like that, how does it automatically mean he did something wrong?
 
I'm sure if a school found out you had a dishonorable discharge, they'd want to know exactly why.
 
OTH (Other Than Honorable) essentially means that one did not complete the term of service one signed up for. It is certainly not a Dishonorable Discharge (crimes) and is sometimes eligible for an upgrade to Honorable after a certain period of time and depending upon the circumstances. Basically, OTH means that you agreed to serve a certain period of time, and then failed to do so, for some reason.

I know that some places frown upon anything below an Honorable Discharge as showing a lack of commitment and/or moral fiber. Other places don't seem to mind as much. The option to upgrade to Honorable exists in instances in which a person is involuntarily discharged for something beyond their control (say, mental issues that don't qualify for a Medical Discharge).

Ultimately, my guess would be that an OTH discharge would require some explanation as to the circumstances and is probably on the level of a crappy first-year of college (i.e. you had a problem, and now it's no longer a problem because...). On the other hand, a Dishonorable would surely sink an application to just about anything respectable.

I should be clear that I'm not a military expert, but simply a veteran with an Honorable Discharge with a few friends who received OTH's.
 
On the other hand, a Dishonorable would surely sink an application to just about anything respectable.

I would not suprised if med schools refused to take someone with a dishonorable discharge no matter what else is on their app. I imagine having a conviction for something serious enough to earn you that would prevent you from getting a medical license.
 
can someone who knows what OTH discharge is please explain? I dont get why this is such a problem.
acc to wikipedia (great source rite?), these are some common reasosn for discharge:
  • Expiration of Term of Service (ETS)
  • Disability, Dependency, or Hardship
  • Pregnancy/Parenthood
  • Physical or Mental Conditions that interfere with military service
  • Convenience of The Government/Secretarial Authority (voluntary redundancy due to funding cutbacks, for example)
  • Unsuitability
  • Misconduct - Minor Disciplinary Infractions
  • Entry-Level Performance and Conduct
so like lets say the OP is a girl, how is pregnancy a crime? how about disability? or physical conditions that interfere w/ military service? what if he/she developed some sort of medical condition. what if its something like that? i dont get it as long as they dont ask him, what kind of "MISCONDUCT" did you do (meaning it was some sort of military-ish crime), if he just leaves it like that, how does it automatically mean he did something wrong?

Pregnancy is not a crime. Intentionally getting pregnant to avoid deployement is malingering and is a crime. It happens all the time, but I've never seen it prosecuted.

The quote you provided above talks about dicharge in general which can be anything from Honorable (good) to other than honorable (worse) to Dishonorable (really, really bad).

Eventually, every soldier is discharged in one form or the other.

I heard the OP's story earlier in the other thread. It sounded a little bit dubious. Either way, if I were him, I'd let it rip and see what happens. There is not a lot he can do about it now.
 
I would not suprised if med schools refused to take someone with a dishonorable discharge no matter what else is on their app. I imagine having a conviction for something serious enough to earn you that would prevent you from getting a medical license.

OTH Discharges don't necessarily entail any sort of conviction. Convictions only come from courts martial, which are extremely rare. You can get an OTH and be seperated from the Army without ever seeing a judge/jury.
 
Pregnancy is not a crime. Intentionally getting pregnant to avoid deployement is malingering and is a crime. It happens all the time, but I've never seen it prosecuted.

ok so even so, i dont see how someone can prosecute you for getting pregnant. BC is only 99% effective at best. What. youre not allowed to have sex if you enlist in the army either? And if you do get pregnant, and choose not to kill the kid and actually keep it, thats "malingering?" It couldve been unintentional and unless the person you were in bed with is a senior officer, seems to me they have no way of proving intent. Im totally clueless about this whole thing, and I just want to know what terrible act s/he COULDVE done...why this is such a "big deal" to schools other than USUHSC (which is like an armed forces school in bethesda right?). If the list i quoted from wikipedia is inaccurate, can you just inform the clueless on here what things earn you an "other than honorable" discharge?
thanks
 
ok so even so, i dont see how someone can prosecute you for getting pregnant.

You're missing the point. The prosecution isn't for getting pregnant, it's for deliberately getting pregnant with the intent of avoiding military duty by doing so. The method of malingering isn't an issue, it's the malingering itself that results in an OTH. An individual who got pregnant despite taking reasonable precautions before an deployment wouldn't be subject (most likely) to adverse actions. You have to understand that the "sacrifice" part of military service is giving up a lot of personal freedom. An individual simply can't say "screw deploying, I'm going to have a kid". The loss of a team member in a deploying group is bad, both militarily and for morale. For what it's worth, this sort of thing is one of the primary arguments used by those who believe women shouldn't serve in front-line/deployable areas of the military. Women who use pregnancy as a method of getting out of dangerous duty aren't doing themselves (or other women wanting full equality in the military) any favors.
 
You're missing the point. The prosecution isn't for getting pregnant, it's for deliberately getting pregnant with the intent of avoiding military duty by doing so. The method of malingering isn't an issue, it's the malingering itself that results in an OTH. An individual who got pregnant despite taking reasonable precautions before an deployment wouldn't be subject (most likely) to adverse actions. You have to understand that the "sacrifice" part of military service is giving up a lot of personal freedom. An individual simply can't say "screw deploying, I'm going to have a kid". The loss of a team member in a deploying group is bad, both militarily and for morale. For what it's worth, this sort of thing is one of the primary arguments used by those who believe women shouldn't serve in front-line/deployable areas of the military. Women who use pregnancy as a method of getting out of dangerous duty aren't doing themselves (or other women wanting full equality in the military) any favors.

I hear you, and although i totally cannot relate, i respect those who value their military service so much and are willing to make so many sacrifices. I guess im still just wondering, what could this guy/girl have done that is SO terrible, that it would mean he couldnt get into medical school (other than a military associated med school like the one in bethesda). Like take a NY or Chicago school for example. Why would they really care? If he did something illegal, fine, but what if it WAS a medical issue (am i wrong? isnt that one of the things that gets you this "OTH" discharge)? Im missing somehthing, and im sorry.
 
ok so even so, i dont see how someone can prosecute you for getting pregnant. BC is only 99% effective at best. What. youre not allowed to have sex if you enlist in the army either? And if you do get pregnant, and choose not to kill the kid and actually keep it, thats "malingering?" It couldve been unintentional and unless the person you were in bed with is a senior officer, seems to me they have no way of proving intent. Im totally clueless about this whole thing, and I just want to know what terrible act s/he COULDVE done...why this is such a "big deal" to schools other than USUHSC (which is like an armed forces school in bethesda right?). If the list i quoted from wikipedia is inaccurate, can you just inform the clueless on here what things earn you an "other than honorable" discharge?
thanks

Malingering is intentionally using a physical condition to avoid duty. If you intentionally throw your self off a ten foot cliff to try and break your leg to get out of training (don't laugh, I saw it happen) it's malingering. Pregnacy can fall into that catagory.

However, it's basically impossible to prove malingering either way, whether it is from pregnacy or some other form, that's why it is never prosecuted. You would basically have to prove that a soldier intentionally became pregnant for the sole purpose of avoiding combat duty. However, before my unit deployed, there was a precipitous rise in the number of female soldiers who became pregnant and thus "undeployable" so you can do the math. It's an Army wide phenomenum.

The link you provided was simply for discharge. You are "discharged" whenever you leave the military, regardless of the circumstances. If you successfully complete your obligation and leave under the best of circumstances (ETS) you are discharged under the catagory "honorable discharge".

Other than honorable discharges are typically handed out for people who go AWOL, beat their wife, or something else that isn't bad enough to end up in federal prison but is bad enough where the command doesn't want them around anymore. OTH discharges are basically up to the discretion of the command group and what might get you discharged in one unit might only get you an article 15 (non-judicial punishment/loss of rank and pay) in another unit. It stays on your record and will come up on a background check, that is the rub.

I won't speak for the OP on the conditions of his OTH discharge, but you can find his earlier thread by clicking on his name where he goes into the details. Like I said, by his account, it seemed a little dubious and one sided, but stranger things have happened in the Army. At any rate, I wish him all the l uck in the world. I don't think it's right that soldiers who never complete basic training and have never been a part of a real unit can get a OTH discharge which will screw with them the rest of their lives, but no one in the DOD really cares what my opinion is. At any rate, if it were me, I'd be upfront about it in my personal statement and pray for some sympathy. Trying to hide it or act like it doesn't exist will only be problematic.
 
I hear you, and although i totally cannot relate, i respect those who value their military service so much and are willing to make so many sacrifices. I guess im still just wondering, what could this guy/girl have done that is SO terrible, that it would mean he couldnt get into medical school (other than a military associated med school like the one in bethesda). Like take a NY or Chicago school for example. Why would they really care? If he did something illegal, fine, but what if it WAS a medical issue (am i wrong? isnt that one of the things that gets you this "OTH" discharge)? Im missing somehthing, and im sorry.

It's not even that, it's the UCMJ (the Uniform Code of Military Justice) which you are under as a soldier. It is far more draconian than the civil code that civilians live under. When you sign up, you religate yourself to living under the UCMJ.

If the OP got an OTH, then he did do something illegal under the UCMJ.

As for med schools caring, I am not sure if they will or won't. I think that will just depend on who is reading the file and how they want to handle it.
 
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