Will going to the Caribbean screw you over?

These offshore schools are going to collapse. The smart investors sold out to DeVry and have started for profit DO/MD schools (1 for profit DO school built, 1 in the works and 2 for profit MD schools in the works).

I think being for-profit is against AAMC and/or LCME policy, so that wouldn't work. I wish COCA wouldn't allow for-profit schools. DeVry is crap and so I'm highly skeptical of Rocky Vista. DeVry works the same way typical carribean schools do - accept anyone with a pulse and a credit card and then don't worry if they can actually pass. I'd be worried they'd work the same business model.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Who the heck would go to a for-profit institution in their right mind?
 
The residency that I am affiliated with has 20 or so spots, this year they got 600 applications from FMGs. 600.:eek: You don't want to be one of the 600 fighting for a handful of interview spots they give to the FMGs. BTW, many of them trained at their countries premier schools, have already completed an anesthesia residency and have been in practice for years often with publications, so don't go thinking the Caribbean is going to put you above them.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I think being for-profit is against AAMC and/or LCME policy, so that wouldn't work. I wish COCA wouldn't allow for-profit schools. DeVry is crap and so I'm highly skeptical of Rocky Vista. DeVry works the same way typical carribean schools do - accept anyone with a pulse and a credit card and then don't worry if they can actually pass. I'd be worried they'd work the same business model.

http://www.lcme.org/newschoolprocess.htm

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...ofit-medical-school-moves-ahead.html?page=all
 
The residency that I am affiliated with has 20 or so spots, this year they got 600 applications from FMGs. 600.:eek: You don't want to be one of the 600 fighting for a handful of interview spots they give to the FMGs. BTW, many of them trained at their countries premier schools, have already completed an anesthesia residency and have been in practice for years often with publications, so don't go thinking the Caribbean is going to put you above them.


isn't there a rule that they need to be less than a certain number of years out medical school to be eligible for match? (6years or less I believe)
 
Caribbean schools used to be an option, 4-5 years from now when you are matching it'll be a nightmare.

There has been a shortage of spots in US medical schools for a long time, and there was a significant gap between the number of AMG's vs. the number of residency slots. That gap is closing dramatically as DO schools grow at a 300% rate/10 yrs and MD schools grow at a 15-20% rate over 5 years.

These offshore schools are going to collapse. The smart investors sold out to DeVry and have started for profit DO/MD schools (1 for profit DO school built, 1 in the works and 2 for profit MD schools in the works).

Ross University is actually owned by DeVry.
Back to the OPs question. I personally got in to the SGU and Ross and have chosen not to go. I know 3 people who graduated from Carib schools 2 years ago who can't get a residency besides for one who got PC in the middle of Nebraska. All have 200k+ in loans
This years matching for Caribbean schools is probably going to be the best one for a loong time to come as Prematching is a thing of the past. Scrambling is also not going to be an option in 2014 as another computer/software program will take over.
This means that IMGs will be forced to compete against AMGS every step of the way regardless of "conenctions" and who you may know.

Plus like others before said Residency slots are not increasing at the same pace as Medical schools are accepting.
I ended up choosing podiatry over Caribbean. Better to have a more secure future even though it may not be my ultimate goal.
 
isn't there a rule that they need to be less than a certain number of years out medical school to be eligible for match? (6years or less I believe)

We had a fellow recently that had repeated residency in the US. He was in practice in Europe for 10 years. Perhaps he got his spot outside the match. I don't know the breakdown of applicants inside and outside the match, but more than 20 FMGs for every available spot was eye opening. Of course only one, maybe 2 get a spot, and they're superstars.
 
isn't there a rule that they need to be less than a certain number of years out medical school to be eligible for match? (6years or less I believe)

You've got a world full of applicants. India alone has like 340 medical schools. Anywhere that isn't Canada or America pays less to physicians, so there are $$$ reasons for tens of thousands of physicians from across the world to at least attempt to get an American residency.

It's really kind of an amazing deal. Even better if you live in a socialist country that pays for college and medical school (with a cash stipend) then come to America and make the big bucks with no debt.
 
You've got a world full of applicants. India alone has like 340 medical schools. Anywhere that isn't Canada or America pays less to physicians, so there are $$$ reasons for tens of thousands of physicians from across the world to at least attempt to get an American residency.

It's really kind of an amazing deal. Even better if you live in a socialist country that pays for college and medical school (with a cash stipend) then come to America and make the big bucks with no debt.


I know, really.


Money > national loyalty/serving your people.

But hell, we get the best of the best because of it (and some iffy ones - from what I'm told)
 
The residency that I am affiliated with has 20 or so spots, this year they got 600 applications from FMGs. 600.:eek: You don't want to be one of the 600 fighting for a handful of interview spots they give to the FMGs. BTW, many of them trained at their countries premier schools, have already completed an anesthesia residency and have been in practice for years often with publications, so don't go thinking the Caribbean is going to put you above them.
lol but pre-meds who are going IMG will say something like "well 20 people matched into x residency program!"
 

hmm interesting. I'll have to keep an eye on that to see if those get past the applicant phase.

If their motive is truly to help train more physicians, I don't see why a for-profit model is necessary. A Non-profit can be run while still compensating the employees (i.e. doctors/professors and admin, etc for the med school) quite well. Once you have investors to which you are obligated to maximize profits, you have a conflict of interest. It doesn't sit well with me.
 
hmm interesting. I'll have to keep an eye on that to see if those get past the applicant phase.

If their motive is truly to help train more physicians, I don't see why a for-profit model is necessary. A Non-profit can be run while still compensating the employees (i.e. doctors/professors and admin, etc for the med school) quite well. Once you have investors to which you are obligated to maximize profits, you have a conflict of interest. It doesn't sit well with me.

It doesn't sit well with LCME, either <too lazy to find the document on website>. They don't prohibit for-profit explicitly but it appears to cost you points in the accreditation game. PBMC have been in Applicant status for a while now, it will be interesting to see what becomes of them.
 
that match list is the most disorganized thing that I've ever seen.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
it also does not list which matches are pre-lim spots, or if any of the PGY-2 is because they didn't match into a residency last year, etc. Especially since it says that 20% of the residency appointments were from "outside" the match.

Imo, not including information like that can make a match list very misleading.
 
Last edited:
Are there ANY for profit med schools?
 
Have you ever used google. Jesus....
 
OP if you're in high school you shouldnt be thinking about the carribean anyway. You have plenty of options as well as lower 'back up" options (low tier MD schools and DO schools) to help you if you need it. Dont worry about the carribean.
 
Have you ever used google. Jesus....

What's google? (Just kidding) :rolleyes:

taken from the Ross website;

Directors of residency programs have said “Send me more Ross graduates.”

Is this true or are you being sarcastic?

why?

I don't follow the thread moving reasoning sometimes. I thought it was about to which group the thread topic was relevant.

Yeah, same. That's why I originally posted in allopathic.

OP if you're in high school you shouldnt be thinking about the carribean anyway. You have plenty of options as well as lower 'back up" options (low tier MD schools and DO schools) to help you if you need it. Dont worry about the carribean.

Yeah, I'm just planning my whole route, including back up plans.
 
Yeah, I'm just planning my whole route, including back up plans.

when you can't get into a US MD/DO school, the back-up plan is not a carribean school.

the back-up plan is try again next year

if, as an incoming college freshman, you feel the need to plan out what to do if you don't get into med school on the second try, my advice isn't to begin cataloging stats on carribean schools. my advice would be to see if you can get a doc to prescribe a chill pill.
 
when you can't get into a US MD/DO school, the back-up plan is not a carribean school.

the back-up plan is try again next year

if, as an incoming college freshman, you feel the need to plan out what to do if you don't get into med school on the second try, my advice isn't to begin cataloging stats on carribean schools. my advice would be to see if you can get a doc to prescribe a chill pill.

Better yet, become a doc so you can prescribe the chill pills. Even though I know some chill pills which don't require prescriptions. There is a kind called calm drops. You can buy them just about anywhere. I am not joking.
 
When school owners start making accounts on ValueMD and make up false crap to advertise their school (ex. pretending to be students), this kind of discredits the carribean largely.
 
When school owners start making accounts on ValueMD and make up false crap to advertise their school (ex. pretending to be students), this kind of discredits the carribean largely.

Ohhh, so you think Caribbean schools are good but they are just getting bad rep from the crap schools down there?
 
Ohhh, so you think Caribbean schools are good but they are just getting bad rep from the crap schools down there?
For-profit institutions that take in 5x the number of students compared to med schools in north america and kick out more than a third of them while only half of the surviving 2/3rds actually succeed in getting a residency. Problem is though... this is what the top 3-4 schools do (with the exception of Saba?). The other ones are just plain jokes.
 
For-profit institutions that take in 5x the number of students compared to med schools in north america and kick out more than a third of them while only half of the surviving 2/3rds actually succeed in getting a residency. Problem is though... this is what the top 3-4 schools do (with the exception of Saba?). The other ones are just plain jokes.

I think any for-profit college is just plain a joke. Especially the degree mills where they practically just sell you a degree.
 
I think any for-profit college is just plain a joke. Especially the degree mills where they practically just sell you a degree.
Ya pretty much. But it becomes an even bigger joke when I head over to ValueMD and cant help but read some of the carribean subforums threads just for the "lol value."
 
OP let me explain your chances:

Less than a 5% chance of matching if you start in a Caribbean in a year or two from now.

Which means a 95% chance of huge debt and still not being able to become a doctor.
 
OP let me explain your chances:

Less than a 5% chance of matching if you start in a Caribbean in a year or two from now.

Which means a 95% chance of huge debt and still not being able to become a doctor.
Given the newer schools and stagnating residency spots, this is fairly accurate. Though becoming a rural psychiatrist/family doctor in the least desired parts of the US will still be a very do-able option for those who are in the top...the sheer number of people (mathematically) that will be shut out will be huge.

Reality is though, people will keep going to the carribean. No matter if they finished with all Cs and Ds while still retaking all core classes and putting in lots of effort, people will still go.
 
Given the newer schools and stagnating residency spots, this is fairly accurate. Though becoming a rural psychiatrist/family doctor in the least desired parts of the US will still be a very do-able option for those who are in the top...the sheer number of people (mathematically) that will be shut out will be huge.

Reality is though, people will keep going to the carribean. No matter if they finished with all Cs and Ds while still retaking all core classes and putting in lots of effort, people will still go.

The Caribbean is fine as a hail Mary backup plan for folks who cannot secure US med school admission after multiple attempts. A small chance to become a doctor is still better than a zero chance for some, and i dont begrudge the lucky few who can overcome all the hurdles and turn things around. Anyone contemplating it as an option earlier in the decision tree is foolish. And the prior poster is correct that as the number of US med school seats increases, and residency seats dont, the offshore schools are going to be destroyed in the near term -- their students simply won't be getting slots.
 
The Caribbean is fine as a hail Mary backup plan for folks who cannot secure US med school admission after multiple attempts. A small chance to become a doctor is still better than a zero chance for some, and i dont begrudge the lucky few who can overcome all the hurdles and turn things around. Anyone contemplating it as an option earlier in the decision tree is foolish. And the prior poster is correct that as the number of US med school seats increases, and residency seats dont, the offshore schools are going to be destroyed in the near term -- their students simply won't be getting slots.
But at what cost? 250k and 5 years of your prime life? All for most likely nothing? hmm..
 
So at this point the Caribbean is a completely stupid idea?
 
So at this point the Caribbean is a completely stupid idea?

Depends what your chances are of getting into med school in the US are. If there's no amount of grade rehabilitation and application attempts that will get you in in the US and you really want to be a doctor, and you have money to burn, then taking a shot at the Caribbean still gives you a better than zero chance. But short of that it's probably not a great idea, and the story won't have a happy ending for quite a few.
 
It's stupid to be planning this this early
 
This is something you worry about after you bomb your core classes or mcat
 
cut him some slack, some people from a young age aspire to graduate with an MD from the caribbean.
 
cut him some slack, some people from a young age aspire to graduate with an MD from the caribbean.
Haha

It's stupid to be planning this this early
How so?


Depends what your chances are of getting into med school in the US are. If there's no amount of grade rehabilitation and application attempts that will get you in in the US and you really want to be a doctor, and you have money to burn, then taking a shot at the Caribbean still gives you a better than zero chance. But short of that it's probably not a great idea, and the story won't have a happy ending for quite a few.

Thank you.
 
So at this point the Caribbean is a completely stupid idea?
It doesn't matter. If you arent good enough to get into a DO school somewhere, you arent good enough to be a doctor. By being on SDN you're very likely to be a student who's willing to put in work. If that doesn't get you good enough stats for a low-tier DO school to become an average family doctor..... then I don't know why you think the carribean will work out for you.
 
It doesn't matter. If you arent good enough to get into a DO school somewhere, you arent good enough to be a doctor. By being on SDN you're very likely to be a student who's willing to put in work. If that doesn't get you good enough stats for a low-tier DO school to become an average family doctor..... then I don't know why you think the carribean will work out for you.

This isn't accurate. There are actually some very good doctors from the Caribbean schools, to be fair. The person who uses the Caribbean as his second chance and manages to drastically turn things around, acing classes and rocking the Steps, probably makes as good a resident as the low end of the US med schools (held back only because their rotations tend not to be equivalent). However this is a small minority of those who attend Caribbean med schools. It's simply a bad move statistically, but I think it's *****ic to suggest that the few who are able to turn things around late are not "good enough to be a Doctor". The person who turns things around dramatically is actually smarter and works harder than the one who never excels but squeaks into your "low tier DO school". Caribbean is a harder road but the rare ones who traverse it successfully are actually pretty impressive a lot of the time.


But as suggested, if you are in high school, focusing on the Caribbean is a lot like contemplating flight school but focusing in on the parachute in case you crash the plane, rather than on learning to fly the plane. If you are going to crash and burn there will be other options to mull bailing out later.
 
Last edited:
This isn't accurate. There are actually some very good doctors from the Caribbean schools, to be fair. The person who uses the Caribbean as his second chance and manages to drastically turn things around, acing classes and rocking the Steps, probably makes as good a resident as the low end of the US med schools (held back only because their rotations tend not to be equivalent). However this is a small minority of those who attend Caribbean med schools. It's simply a bad move statistically, but I think it's *****ic to suggest that the few who are able to turn things around late are not "good enough to be a Doctor". The person who turns things around dramatically is actually smarter and works harder than the one who never excels but squeaks into your "low tier DO school". Caribbean is a harder road but the rare ones who traverse it successfully are actually pretty impressive a lot of the time.


But as suggested, if you are in high school, focusing on the Caribbean is a lot like contemplating flight school but focusing in on the parachute in case you crash the plane, rather than on learning to fly the plane. If you are going to crash and burn there will be other options to mull bailing out later.

The problem with all of this is that people succeeding in Caribbean schools are pretty much always good enough for DO schools - and sometimes low-tier MD schools. SGU for example has their average GPA at like 3.4 or 3.3? Saba and Ross are also on a similar level I believe. The deciding point is that many people will not get in during one application cycle in which they applied to like 3-4 schools and head to the Caribbean. Many will not even consider the DO route. So although they were "good enough" they just werent wise enough in their research/decision making.
 
The problem with all of this is that people succeeding in Caribbean schools are pretty much always good enough for DO schools - and sometimes low-tier MD schools. SGU for example has their average GPA at like 3.4 or 3.3? Saba and Ross are also on a similar level I believe. The deciding point is that many people will not get in during one application cycle in which they applied to like 3-4 schools and head to the Caribbean. Many will not even consider the DO route. So although they were "good enough" they just werent wise enough in their research/decision making.

Even so, I'm not sure your assertion that they aren't good enough to be a doctor holds. I've actually known folks who went to the Caribbean whose GPA and MCAT were not amenable to US admission who managed to change the course in an offshore school, and now are quite gOod residents, so it happens.
 
Even so, I'm not sure your assertion that they aren't good enough to be a doctor holds. I've actually known folks who went to the Caribbean whose GPA and MCAT were not amenable to US admission who managed to change the course in an offshore school, and now are quite gOod residents, so it happens.

What were their stats exactly? Going to a really tough school and/or doing a tough major, having a tough courseload, etc. many factors can deflate your GPA by a bit (and enough) to knock you out.
But if this is someone who studied hard and got a 2.5, then suddenly became a genius and scored 270 on step 1 and got into hopkins neurosurgery.. i wouldnt believe that. Often it's a case of several factors which bring down GPAs along with general laziness. People who work hard and dont meet the standard (and I knew tons of these people) are not good enough.
 
Top