Will I even get into a Caribbean Med School?

[edub1]

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I'm applying, to US allopathic med schools and AUC and SGU (so far). My stats are as follows: mediocre EC's, no clinical experience, 2 years research experience (1 forthcoming publication), 3.6 GPA and 3.85 Science GPA from a good University majoring in Molecular Biology, and minoring in Chemistry, significant course work in computer science and philosophy, taking the MCAT on Sep 7 with expected score around 32, and my letters of rec should be good one coming from the professor i researched under, but two are coming from TAs although both have PhDs (i should have gotten to know professors, but it's too late for my ******* since I've been out of school for a year).
People reading this probably wonder why the eff im applying to med school if I have no idea what it's like to be a doctor. I wish I could have gotten some clinical experience, but since I've been out of school (this is about the time i decided i wanted to go to med school, fyi), I started running a contracting/carpentry business, which has left me very little free time. On the other hand I have spent an exorbitant amount of time in clinics and hospitals due to terrible medical luck, so I think, because of this, I have a pretty good idea about what it's like to be a doctor.
I've included the free lance carpenter and patient experience stuff in my essays hoping to illustrate a certain amount of uniqueness.
Anyway, my apps won't get processed until my MCAT score arrives, which will be 3 weeks before most US Med school deadlines. With no clinical experience, ****ty ECs, and unorthodox letters of rec, I'm pretty sure that I wasted a shiiit ton of money applying to US medical schools, and expect to get in no where.
If my premonition turns out to be correct, and I get into no US medical schools, but get into the Caribbean ones. I'll probably commit to a Caribbean one, because I don't want to put my life on hold anymore, and spend more money applying again next year.
However, the question now is, will I even get into caribbean school given the aforesaid shortcomings. Anyone have some idea?

I apologize for this poorly composed, uber boring post, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bulletproof]

I'm applying, to US allopathic med schools and AUC and SGU (so far). My stats are as follows: mediocre EC's, no clinical experience, 2 years research experience (1 forthcoming publication), 3.6 GPA and 3.85 Science GPA from a good University majoring in Molecular Biology, and minoring in Chemistry, significant course work in computer science and philosophy, taking the MCAT on Sep 7 with expected score around 32, and my letters of rec should be good one coming from the professor i researched under, but two are coming from TAs although both have PhDs (i should have gotten to know professors, but it's too late for my ******* since I've been out of school for a year).
People reading this probably wonder why the eff im applying to med school if I have no idea what it's like to be a doctor. I wish I could have gotten some clinical experience, but since I've been out of school (this is about the time i decided i wanted to go to med school, fyi), I started running a contracting/carpentry business, which has left me very little free time. On the other hand I have spent an exorbitant amount of time in clinics and hospitals due to terrible medical luck, so I think, because of this, I have a pretty good idea about what it's like to be a doctor.
I've included the free lance carpenter and patient experience stuff in my essays hoping to illustrate a certain amount of uniqueness.
Anyway, my apps won't get processed until my MCAT score arrives, which will be 3 weeks before most US Med school deadlines. With no clinical experience, ****ty ECs, and unorthodox letters of rec, I'm pretty sure that I wasted a shiiit ton of money applying to US medical schools, and expect to get in no where.
If my premonition turns out to be correct, and I get into no US medical schools, but get into the Caribbean ones. I'll probably commit to a Caribbean one, because I don't want to put my life on hold anymore, and spend more money applying again next year.
However, the question now is, will I even get into caribbean school given the aforesaid shortcomings. Anyone have some idea?

I apologize for this poorly composed, uber boring post, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

My friend, if a 3.6 GPA, 3.85 science GPA,a forthcoming publication and an anticipated MCAT of 32 are perceived as shortcomings, I'd like to know how you define success.


Heres how it works:

MCAT of ~ 22+ with your stats : acceptance at any caribbean school
MCAT of ~ 30+ with your stats: very good shot at a large number of allopathic and osteopathic schools.

As for your ECs and whatnot, pad your resume. Make yourself look more interesting. Everyone does it, and if you don't you're the fool.As for clinical experience, arrange to shadow a doctor. Tell the adcoms it was the most fulfilling 6 hours of your life and solidified your resolve to become a physician.Lament the fact that you did not have more time to volunteer in the hospital, but because you were such a conscientious student you focused more on getting published, and pondering cartesian metaphysics..... I mean c'mon dude...learn to sell yourself a little, and pick up that self esteem Even with your stats, you need to be able to sell yourself at interview, for med. school, for residency, for attending jobs etc. Start learning those skills now.

If your MCAT turns out as well as you anticipate, you have an excellent chance to stay in the U.S. This is the best option, as evidenced by virtually every other thread in the caribbean forums. Good luck.

 

[edub1]

Thanks for the info. Honestly, I couldnt find any information about people applying without clinical experience, so I had no idea how much it (or lack of it) affects admissions chances. I've just heard that it's pretty much an unspoken recquirement. As for selling myself, I think I did a pretty good job on the AMCAS and secondaries I filled out so far.

 

[DyersEve]

You might consider applying to some osteopathic schools. I think you should be a lock for admission at at least some osteopathic schools. DO schools are far less selective than their allopathic counterparts. It would be preferable to try DO schools before the Caribbean since you would be considered a US medical grad as opposed to foreign grad. I had far worse stats than you (3.1 GPA with some Cs and an F, 28 MCAT, limited ECs) and I got interviews at 4 schools and waitlisted at 2.
Most DO schools prefer a rec letter from an osteopathic physician. It shouldn't be too difficult to find one. In my experience, a lot of DOs are very eager to help because they have a bit of a chip on their shoulder. I just called up a nearby DO school and asked if they knew of any DOs in the area that I could shadow. Also you have to sell the schools on the idea that you buy into the whole philosophy of osteopathic medicine and that you are interested in practicing in rural areas since it is most DO schools' mission to produce primary care physicians for rural areas.

 

[Meatwad]

First of all, until you've taken the MCAT, no one can help you with your chances. Lots of people "anticipate," a 30, ora 32, or a 40; things happen. You might have a bad day. Wiat until you get your score, then you'll see where you are at.

IF you get a 30 or over, a Caribbean school would be stupid not to accept you; you'd also have a good shot at a US allo school, albeit that you are light on ECs. You'd probably get into some good osteo schools too (PCOM, NYCOM, etc.)

 

[Top Gun]

I'm applying, to US allopathic med schools and AUC and SGU (so far). My stats are as follows: mediocre EC's, no clinical experience, 2 years research experience (1 forthcoming publication), 3.6 GPA and 3.85 Science GPA from a good University majoring in Molecular Biology, and minoring in Chemistry, significant course work in computer science and philosophy, taking the MCAT on Sep 7 with expected score around 32, and my letters of rec should be good one coming from the professor i researched under, but two are coming from TAs although both have PhDs (i should have gotten to know professors, but it's too late for my ******* since I've been out of school for a year).
People reading this probably wonder why the eff im applying to med school if I have no idea what it's like to be a doctor. I wish I could have gotten some clinical experience, but since I've been out of school (this is about the time i decided i wanted to go to med school, fyi), I started running a contracting/carpentry business, which has left me very little free time. On the other hand I have spent an exorbitant amount of time in clinics and hospitals due to terrible medical luck, so I think, because of this, I have a pretty good idea about what it's like to be a doctor.
I've included the free lance carpenter and patient experience stuff in my essays hoping to illustrate a certain amount of uniqueness.
Anyway, my apps won't get processed until my MCAT score arrives, which will be 3 weeks before most US Med school deadlines. With no clinical experience, ****ty ECs, and unorthodox letters of rec, I'm pretty sure that I wasted a shiiit ton of money applying to US medical schools, and expect to get in no where.
If my premonition turns out to be correct, and I get into no US medical schools, but get into the Caribbean ones. I'll probably commit to a Caribbean one, because I don't want to put my life on hold anymore, and spend more money applying again next year.
However, the question now is, will I even get into caribbean school given the aforesaid shortcomings. Anyone have some idea?

I apologize for this poorly composed, uber boring post, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Come on dude! You've already got excellent stats for getting into med school. Your GPA's are great and you have research experience with at least one publication. If you do as well as you anticipate on the MCAT, you'll have a good chance of getting into a US school (MD or DO) as well as a Caribbean one. Admittedly, most med school admissions committees like to see clinical experience, so you should consider shadowing one or two physicians. You don't even have to shadow every day. Once or twice a week should be sufficient. Anyway, good luck to you on your MCAT and with the admissions process.

 

[McGillGrad]

These posts make me laugh.....

 

[oldpro]

These posts make me laugh.....

Me too this goes under the "Over Achiver" "I guess I'm type A category"

Really You do not need a 4.0 to go to medical school nor Clinical experience its very advised to have it but if you can prove your case through things like research and really good GPA and MCAT then you can do well.

 

[TRAMD]

GPA and MCAT are the two most important factors for medical school admission.

Your GPA is not competitive for US allopathic schools, but certainly not prohibitive. It is competitive for DO schools and VERY competitive for caribbean schools.

Based on a practice MCAT test I would have "expected" a score of 38 and actually scored a 32. The number will be what it will be. Over 30 and you will have a decent chance at an allopathic school. Mid-20's you will be good for a DO school and over 20 you are a shoe-in for caribbean schools. Score a 36 or higher and you have almost instant admission to at least one allopathic school. Good luck.

 

[Meatwad]

GPA and MCAT are the two most important factors for medical school admission.

Your GPA is not competitive for US allopathic schools, but certainly not prohibitive. It is competitive for DO schools and VERY competitive for caribbean schools.

Based on a practice MCAT test I would have "expected" a score of 38 and actually scored a 32. The number will be what it will be. Over 30 and you will have a decent chance at an allopathic school. Mid-20's you will be good for a DO school and over 20 you are a shoe-in for caribbean schools. Score a 36 or higher and you have almost instant admission to at least one allopathic school. Good luck.

Are you being sarcastic? He has a 3.6 cumulative and a 3.85 science... the 3.6 is basically the average of a matriculated med student and the science is well above. He is very competitive, assuming a decent MCAT. If the average student is a 3.67/30 or something like that, how is a 3.6 GPA not competitive, as you put it? Plenty of people get in with 3.5s, and 3.7s per year; some under the average, some over.

OP quit stressing out, you are in fine shape. See if you can cram some volunteerism in, though.

 

[TRAMD]

Are you being sarcastic? He has a 3.6 cumulative and a 3.85 science... the 3.6 is basically the average of a matriculated med student and the science is well above. He is very competitive, assuming a decent MCAT. If the average student is a 3.67/30 or something like that, how is a 3.6 GPA not competitive, as you put it? Plenty of people get in with 3.5s, and 3.7s per year; some under the average, some over.

OP quit stressing out, you are in fine shape. See if you can cram some volunteerism in, though.

Semantics. I guess I don't think of average as "competitive". The word "competitive" to me seems to imply above average. I certainly see your point and agree that with a decent MCAT score he has a very good chance of getting into a US allopathic school.

 

[McGillGrad]

Semantics. I guess I don't think of average as "competitive". The word "competitive" to me seems to imply above average. I certainly see your point and agree that with a decent MCAT score he has a very good chance of getting into a US allopathic school.

It is logic, not semantics.

If the AVERAGE is 3.6 then a 3.6 is competitive because it falls in the middle of the range of accepted applicants. If he had a 3.8 then we would be highly competitive.

 

[TRAMD]

It is logic, not semantics.

If the AVERAGE is 3.6 then a 3.6 is competitive because it falls in the middle of the range of accepted applicants. If he had a 3.8 then we would be highly competitive.

No, it is semantics. We have slightly different definitions of what competitive means.

Maybe I need to give you a short logic lesson.

If you wanted to prove that 3.6 was "competitive" in relation to the average you would have to PROVE that competitive actually meant something concrete in relation to the average. This is impossible as one could infer that competitive meant any one of the following:
1. within a range of the average (which it seems to mean to you)
2. the average or above
3. above average (what it means to me)
. . . based on different definitions of "competitive" . . . these different meanings based on different perspectives are semantics, my friend.

 

[Meatwad]

Competitive, which was to be gleaned from the context, means a GPA and MCAT score combination that puts you within a "safe," range in which the majority of matriculants lie.

Competitive may mean different things in real life, so to speak; i.e. it means more what you assumed it meant (overqualified). So a 3.1 is not competitive, a 3.6 is quite competitive (gives you a good shot at matriculating), and a 3.8 is highly competitive (the odds are more in your favor that you will get accepted than not).

Of course, this is all useless because the OP has not taken the MCAT.

 

[TRAMD]

This is somewhat irrelevant, but the average GPA of matriculated medical students seems low at around 3.6-3.7. Does this include osteopathic schools? A ratio of about 2 A's to 1 B in undergrad doesn't seem that overly impressive to me. Maybe that is messing with my perception some.

 

[Meatwad]

This is somewhat irrelevant, but the average GPA of matriculated medical students seems low at around 3.6-3.7. Does this include osteopathic schools? A ratio of about 2 A's to 1 B in undergrad doesn't seem that overly impressive to me. Maybe that is messing with my perception some.

... low? That is essentially an A-; medical schools aren't looking for perfect students, just intelligent and dedicated ones.

There are plenty of 4.0's getting in, but non-traditional students compromise an increasing number of seats in classes each year. More students are getting in with lower undergrad GPA's because of other credentials (Special Master's Programs, perfect post-bacc grades, etc.) which would drag the average down to a 3.6-3.7.

Also keep in mind that while UCSF, Yale, Harvard, JHU, etc. may be driving the averages higher, there are also Meharry, Morehouse, Howard, and other schools with very low GPA averages (under 3.4) leveling it back out. I do not believe osteopathic schools are figured into this calculation, or else it would surely be lower than a 3.67.

 

[TRAMD]

... low? That is essentially an A-; medical schools aren't looking for perfect students, just intelligent and dedicated ones.

There are plenty of 4.0's getting in, but non-traditional students compromise an increasing number of seats in classes each year. More students are getting in with lower undergrad GPA's because of other credentials (Special Master's Programs, perfect post-bacc grades, etc.) which would drag the average down to a 3.6-3.7.

Also keep in mind that while UCSF, Yale, Harvard, JHU, etc. may be driving the averages higher, there are also Meharry, Morehouse, Howard, and other schools with very low GPA averages (under 3.4) leveling it back out. I do not believe osteopathic schools are figured into this calculation, or else it would surely be lower than a 3.67.

All good points. I guess I didn't even think of A-'s. My school only gave solid letter grades, but I probably would have had a lower GPA if every 92% were an A-. Of course a few B+'s might have leveled it out. Do you get a 4.33 for an A+? . . . probably not, dang.

 

[Macbeth]

No one here is really addressing the timing issue on this application. If in fact the OP planns on using a Sept. MCAT score, it is highly likely that he/she will be rejected from rolling US schools that would have otherwise accepted him/her with an earlier application. Many Carribean schools, however, are on different schedules with first year semesters having a possible beginning in January.

OP, if you REALLY don't want to wait the year and would happily attend school in the Carribean, roll the dice and see what happens. Educate yourself about the risks/benefits of attending an offshore school before taking on the psychological and financial stress of applying. If it turns out that you'd much prefer to stay in the US, you should be fine if you apply early next cycle (provided your MCAT goes as planned)

 

[Meatwad]

All good points. I guess I didn't even think of A-'s. My school only gave solid letter grades, but I probably would have had a lower GPA if every 92% were an A-. Of course a few B+'s might have leveled it out. Do you get a 4.33 for an A+? . . . probably not, dang.

Haha, I never understood why colleges would give out A+'s... seems like a throwback to elementary school. I'm pretty sure that AMCAS and AACOMAS both consider grades as follows:

A+/A = 4.0
A- = 3.7
B+ = 3.3
B = 3.0
B- = 2.7
C+ = 2.3
C = 2.0

Below this, you are in the danger zone, so no need to elaborate

 

[edub1]

thanks for the help everyone. i feel a lot better now.

 

[apoptos]

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[apoptos]

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[Meatwad]

I'd say it's a long shot at SGU, but I'm sure one or two students per semester get squeezed into the class with stats like that. It's impossible to tell why, though; maybe they had amazing volunteer experience, advanced degrees (PhD or something), publications, etc. I really wouldn't count on getting in though. SGU is really upping their standards, or so the admissions stats averages would imply. I don't know much about AUC, but maybe if you could retake the MCAT and get over a 30 you'd have a shot. Ditto for Saba.

Try Ross as well. They have big entering classes and seem to not mind accepting weaker students, unlike SGU. Ross knows that the worse that happens is the student fails out, which doesn't hurt Ross at all. Still, I'd retake the MCAT and hope for over a 30 so I could have options open to me.

How old are you? Can you afford 1 extra year before med school? If so, retake any courses you got a C- or below in. Osteopathic schools only consider the newest grade in the course, not an average of both. So if you got an F in Calc 2, retake and get an A, MD schools average it into a C; DO schools consider it an A. So you see how it would be quite easy to raise your 2.87 to well over a 3.0 in a very short amount of time, depending on how many low grades you had. I'll give you a quick example.

Let's say you have 150 credits at a 2.78. This gives you:

2.78 * 150 = 417 quality points (QP)

Let's say that out of those ~45 or so classes, you have 3 Fs, 4 Ds, and 3 C-s. Let's also assume these are all 3 credit courses. If you go to school for one year, and get As in all of those courses, check out your new GPA calculation for DO and MD schools:

417 - 9(0) - 12(1) - 9(1.7) = 389.7

389.7 + 9(2.0) + 12(2.5) + 9(2.85)= 463.35/150 = 3.08 MD overall average

389.7 + 9(4.0) + 12(4.0) + 9(4.0) = 509.7/150 = 3.39 DO overall average

Now, a 3.39 definitely puts you in the running for DO, especially since your MCAT score is higher than the average of 99% of DO schools, I believe. Honestly, I think anyone interested in a career in medicine should make sure they exhaust all the "best," options first; if you are American, I think DO is a better way to go. Also realize, you could apply to US MD schools with a 3.08; people have gotten in with lower grades.

 

[oldpro]

Haha, I never understood why colleges would give out A+'s... seems like a throwback to elementary school. I'm pretty sure that AMCAS and AACOMAS both consider grades as follows:

A+/A = 4.0
A- = 3.7
B+ = 3.3
B = 3.0
B- = 2.7
C+ = 2.3
C = 2.0

Below this, you are in the danger zone, so no need to elaborate

This scale is wrong a little bit, on a 4.0 scale

2.0 - 2.5 = C
2.6 - 3.4 = B
3.5 - 4.0 = A

This plus minus stuff is just BS I think, what matters is the GPA above 3.4, BTW there is a post here I really disagree with 3.6 is within Competitive for Most US schools, Gotta remember a lot of posters are premeds who are not Med students nor know what most of the USA does just what some "Friend " or worse what some adviser ( they know little) told them.

 

[Meatwad]

This scale is wrong a little bit, on a 4.0 scale

2.0 - 2.5 = C
2.6 - 3.4 = B
3.5 - 4.0 = A

This plus minus stuff is just BS I think, what matters is the GPA above 3.4, BTW there is a post here I really disagree with 3.6 is within Competitive for Most US schools, Gotta remember a lot of posters are premeds who are not Med students nor know what most of the USA does just what some "Friend " or worse what some adviser ( they know little) told them.

3.6 is not a number that was invented on SDN; it is the national average for matriculants to US med schools. The number was published by AMCAS.

As for the +/- things, it's also published by AMCAS. I was just providing a conversion chart, because some schools calculate a +/- differently.

 

[oldpro]

3.6 is not a number that was invented on SDN; it is the national average for matriculants to US med schools. The number was published by AMCAS.

As for the +/- things, it's also published by AMCAS. I was just providing a conversion chart, because some schools calculate a +/- differently.

I beg your pardon, 3.6 is THE AVERAGE not the low or high end, You know Bell Curve? I like to encourage the decent people with acceptable stats, to say "If you do not have a 3.6 then you are not competitive", true for JH or Harvard but not for many other schools, at some schools a 3.5 or even a 3.4 with a decent MCAT can be competitive, thats the trap of these stats, always saying the "STATS" prove, they are only a tool, a guide, there is so much more than numbers although I would say the GPA and MCAT are 60% of the APP and without good enough numbers they kill the App.

But some one with good numbers gets turned down every year and some one with low stats get accepted due to the EC's.... the whole app.

It's way more complicated then we appear to make it here.

Personally I think the schools love the turning down since they know now there are thousands of students who will now do expensive grad work to improve the GPA in many cases and these same institutions, many, have these programs or they are a part of Uni that does. ($$$$ my friends)

 

[Meatwad]

Are you being sarcastic? He has a 3.6 cumulative and a 3.85 science... the 3.6 is basically the average of a matriculated med student and the science is well above. He is very competitive, assuming a decent MCAT. If the average student is a 3.67/30 or something like that, how is a 3.6 GPA not competitive, as you put it? Plenty of people get in with 3.5s, and 3.7s per year; some under the average, some over.

OP quit stressing out, you are in fine shape. See if you can cram some volunteerism in, though.

Oldpro: I already made this point, as you can see in my post above.

My point is that a 3.6 IS competitive, not that a sub-3.6 kills ones chance of admissions. Statistically, however, one's chances of acceptance decay exponentially as they move away from the mean. Your own Bell Curve example reinforces this idea, which I don't disagree with. Of course there are intangibles that factor into admission; however, all we have that gives us a reliable ballpark figure of how competitive we are is statistics. If we ignored these numbers, then we might as well tell every pre-med with a 2.0/15 to apply, and essentially have them throw out their money and become emotionally invested in something that will not result in admission (at least a 99.999% chance they won't).

 

[Meatwad]

For the record, I think you'd need a bit more than a 3.6 to be competitive for JHU or Harvard; if you had a 3.6, you'd probably be aiming for a 38 on the MCAT, whereas if you had a 3.9, you might be content with a 35.

 

[oldpro]

Oldpro: I already made this point, as you can see in my post above.

My point is that a 3.6 IS competitive, not that a sub-3.6 kills ones chance of admissions. Statistically, however, one's chances of acceptance decay exponentially as they move away from the mean. Your own Bell Curve example reinforces this idea, which I don't disagree with. Of course there are intangibles that factor into admission; however, all we have that gives us a reliable ballpark figure of how competitive we are is statistics. If we ignored these numbers, then we might as well tell every pre-med with a 2.0/15 to apply, and essentially have them throw out their money and become emotionally invested in something that will not result in admission (at least a 99.999% chance they won't).

OK if I misunderstood Sorry.

I agree, as you know, there are too many people who think with 3.1 or 3.2 and a 27 MCAT "WOW I know I will go to medical school" the answer is maybe Caribbean not USA schools..............

 

[AngryBaby]

I know someone with a 3.4 overall, 3.3 sci and 28 MCAT that got into an allopathic school in the states. Real schmoozer that guy.

I just read over that and realized how much it sounded like one of those "I know a friend that knew someone that got in with a 3.0/15. I'm not trying to prove a point but I find it somewhat cathartic to get that out there every now and again.

 

[oldpro]

I know someone with a 3.4 overall, 3.3 sci and 28 MCAT that got into an allopathic school in the states. Real schmoozer that guy.

I just read over that and realized how much it sounded like one of those "I know a friend that knew someone that got in with a 3.0/15. I'm not trying to prove a point but I find it somewhat cathartic to get that out there every now and again.

No its fine, its really hard to post these things and look too positive, its better to have GPA and MCAT above he Min, those reading these comments with a 3.0 look to the Caribbean and will not be the Big 4 in most cases, yes what you have been told is wrong, a 40 MCAT will not get you in now. (IMHO)

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Give me a break, with your stats, some US school is going to take you. That is a silly question "can I get into a Caribbean school?" People in the Caribbean have much lower stats on average. SGU's average MCAT is 26 with a 3.3 GPA, and that is the most selective Caribbean school out there.