Will I get in?

[Gator11]

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I applied to a a couple DO programs but I wanted to try my chances out with a Caribbean MD program. I am actually signed up for a masters program but if I get into the SGU or AUC I will go. I have spoken with a lot of physicians and most of them have told me to try for a MD program even if it is outside of the US. My numbers are not great but here they are.....

GPA 3.0 in a top ten engineering program with over 200 credit hrs
In reality I can not raise my GPA with out a masters program because I have 200+ hrs

MCAT is a 26

Shadowed several Physicians active member in 3 organizations and president of another. A lot of volunteering and traveling experience.

I spoke with administrators from each school and both told me I should be fine. The only thing I am worried about is the fact that I applied so late.

 

[ChairmanMao]

I applied to a a couple DO programs but I wanted to try my chances out with a Caribbean MD program. I am actually signed up for a masters program but if I get into the SGU or AUC I will go. I have spoken with a lot of physicians and most of them have told me to try for a MD program even if it is outside of the US. My numbers are not great but here they are.....

GPA 3.0 in a top ten engineering program with over 200 credit hrs
In reality I can not raise my GPA with out a masters program because I have 200+ hrs

MCAT is a 26

Shadowed several Physicians active member in 3 organizations and president of another. A lot of volunteering and traveling experience.

I spoke with administrators from each school and both told me I should be fine. The only thing I am worried about is the fact that I applied so late.

I'm going to say that your numbers are on the low side for DO schools. The average GPA of DO school is in the 3.3-3.5 range. Your MCAT score is right around average. I think some schools will give you pointers for being an engineering major, but I think you should apply broadly to a lot of DO schools.

As for Carribbean MD schools, the reputable ones (Ross, SGU, AUC) have an average MCAT of 27 and a GPA of around 3.4, so your GPA is slightly below average for those as well. I would recommend retaking the MCAT and trying to score a 30+ to cement your chances. I'm not certain about your motivations about wanting to be an MD, but graduating from an American medical school, even if it's a DO school is still vastly preferable to graduating from an off-shore MD medical school, especially when it comes to licensing and getting residency. Unless you were rejected from every DO school that you applied to, I would recommend that you wait it out for the cycle and see if you can get into an American DO school first.

 

[Gator11]

I got into a DO school but I opted out of it because I may want to practice outside of the US(later in life). I seem to get mixed reviews on this one, a lot of doctors have told me that DO should be my last choice and some have told me that it does not matter. I have actually spoken to about 15 physicians about this. Most seem to push me towards the Caribbean med schools.

Before I applied to AUC I called and spoke with a medical school admissions councilor and he told I had a good shot. I am still concerned because I applied in April(which seems pretty late). According to their site their average MCAT was a 25 and GPA was 3.1. SGU had a MCAT avg 26 and 3.17 avg sci gpa. My science GPA and overall are the same. I really don't think they will care about my engineering degree.

http://www.aucmed.edu/prospective/student-profile.html
http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/med-entering.html

 

[Gator11]

ChairmanMao,
Are you in a DO or Caribbean program?

 

[dragonfly99]

I'm not sure I agree that a Caribbean MD has an advantage over a US DO degree. Some older docs will tell you that, but I think there used to be a lot of prejudice among US MD's about the DO docs, and DO degree in general. I don't think that many younger US MD's or patients feel that way now, however, at least not as far as the better DO schools. However, I think the issue can be debated/bandied about and there is no clear answer. It seems that in certain regions of the US, such as the northeast, there are not as many DO's and perhaps more Caribbean grads (especially St. George grads in New York area, etc.).

To me, it's a lot safer to get a DO since they have their own residencies in every specialty, and they have a better graduation rate than the Caribbean med schools...especially if you can't get into St. George or maybe SABA, my opinion would be a DO school is safer. If you want to practice in foreign countries, a few don't recognize the DO degree so that might be a reason to go Caribbean MD.

Another issue is money. Would it cost you more to go to a US DO school or the Caribbean school(s) you are considering?

I agree with the above post that you'd have more options in general if you could raise the MCAT score. However, if you just want to go to school now, I'm sure there's a Caribbean school that would take you...I would just say be careful and do research on the school(s) a lot before you accept admission there.

 

[McGillGrad]

You shouldn't go to a DO school if you do not believe in their philosophy, especially if you plan to practice outside the US.

Unless you are planning volunteering your skills with groups such as Medecins Sans Frontieres who accept your credentials from your home country.

 

[Gator11]

Dragonfly99,
The cost is pretty close to the same. The 2 DO schools I was looking at charge around the same. The other problem I have with DO is the fact that I believe there is still a little discrimination. I don't think the discrimination is warranted but its still there. Today I asked friends if they would see a DO over a Caribbean grad and pretty much all of them had the same answer.......they dont have a clue what a DO is but they don't really care where their doctor graduated from. Most said they would rather see a MD, just because they don't know what a DO is.

Honestly the one thing I am not worried about is finding a residency spot. I have seen a lot of people on here claiming the Caribbean school students don't match but I rarely hear about a doctor that can't find work. I put this same thread on valuemd and I have already talked to 4 or 5 grads who had no trouble getting their first match.
I also just got done talking to a resident about this, and according to her she is working side by side with residents from the Caribbean. She attended Ohio St and she was working the same residency spot as a Caribbean grad.

 

[McGillGrad]

Dragonfly99,
Honestly the one thing I am not worried about is finding a residency spot. I have seen a lot of people on here claiming the Caribbean school students don't match but I rarely hear about a doctor that can't find work. I put this same thread on valuemd and I have already talked to 4 or 5 grads who had no trouble getting their first match.I also just got done talking to a resident about this, and according to her she is working side by side with residents from the Caribbean. She attended Ohio St and she was working the same residency spot as a Caribbean grad.

You seem to be VERY confused on this point. Are you sure you wrote that correctly?

 

[Gator11]

You seem to be VERY confused on this point. Are you sure you wrote that correctly?

Basically people on these forums have tried telling me that DO is a better option. Also, I have noticed that they are claiming Caribbean students can't find work(not in these exact words) and I don't agree with that.

 

[RussianJoo]

Basically people on these forums have tried telling me that DO is a better option. Also, I have noticed that they are claiming Caribbean students can't find work(not in these exact words) and I don't agree with that.

most of the people posting on this forum are caribbean students or grads. with the exception of dragonfly99 who's US grad. and many are telling you it will be easier to match from a DO school, while you match from a carib school sure you will but will you match at the specialty you want? that might not be the case, unless you're perfectly happy going into primary care, then you'll match without a problem.

Also you should ask those on valuemd what they think of the future. what happened in the past will not be what's going to happen in the future. heck in the mid 90's Anesthesia was the most unpopular residency and anyone could have matched at a very good university hospital. now it's getting very hard for img's to match there. Same with many other specialties i talked to Doctors that are in their 50's and they said that when they were picking a residency no one looked at grades none of the residencies were competitive or hard to get in and you just picked what you wanted to do. one was a urologist the other an ophthalmologist and both said if they had to apply today they wouldn't get a residency in their specialty because it got so hard.

And it's only getting harder. you're forgetting that you won't be matching for another 3 to 4 years depending when you start med school, a lot of thing will change in that time, change is coming we voted for change, obama will deliver. it might not be change in for the better but there will be change.

I post on valuemd as well. step into the SGU forum and you'll see my posts all over the place. and I would say this to anyone who asks me if they should go to a DO school or Carib school. So don't make this out like we're against carib schools on this site because the same people that post here also post on valuemd. Ask those grads what they think is going to happen with the match in 3 years? do they think it will get harder for carib students to match especially in a competitive specialty and not just primary care. If you read some posts about this years match 2009 you'll hear people complaining how this was the hardest match for carib grads how it was very hard to match much harder than in the past years. and it will continue to get that way. why? because the number of US grads is increasing, both MD and DOs and the number of residencies is pretty much staying the same, naturally someone one will start matching at a lower rate.

you asked our opinions this is how we feel.

Am I happy with my SGU education yes i am, am i going to get to be whatever doctor i want to be? most likely yes, did I have an awesome time on the island? yes i did. would i do it again ? absolutely, if i were applying 4 years ago. Today however, i would go to a DO school over a carib school there are just too many unknowns in the future to jeopardize your future and go in debt for over $200K. You claim on some posts that you already got into a DO school but rejected their offer on other threads you claim that you're still applying and haven't gotten in anywhere yet or are looking into applying. looks like you're a little confused.

Many carib schools have major issues, with licensure or clinical training spots. many carib schools are losing states for licensure, AUA is sueing the state of Arkansas because it won't let their grads get a license in their state, only the top4 will allow you to practice in all 50 states, but laws can change at any moment.

so do what you want, you obviously think you know better than we do.

 

[nlax30]

Basically people on these forums have tried telling me that DO is a better option. Also, I have noticed that they are claiming Caribbean students can't find work(not in these exact words) and I don't agree with that.

Well, then in what "exact words"?

From what I've seen people aren't claiming that Caribbean grads can't find work as physicians(there's a huge need for physicians, you'll find work), but rather, that Caribbean grads will have a harder time finding residency positions.

 

[McGillGrad]

If I understand correctly, people are telling you that a physician (DO or MD) cannot find work after residency because of where they went to medical school? If that is what they are saying, then they are total idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.

If they are saying that Carib grads will have a harder time MATCHING into a residency program, then that is true. It is a fact, but it is only true for those without the minimum step scores or if they do not apply widely to a reasonable (i.e. non-competitive) specialty.

If you are sure that your scores are at least average and you are not looking at a competitive specialty, then you should have no problems matching into a residency.

Basically people on these forums have tried telling me that DO is a better option. Also, I have noticed that they are claiming Caribbean students can't find work(not in these exact words) and I don't agree with that.

 

[Gator11]

Well, then in what "exact words"?

From what I've seen people aren't claiming that Caribbean grads can't find work as physicians(there's a huge need for physicians, you'll find work), but rather, that Caribbean grads will have a harder time finding residency positions.

They make it seem like Caribbean grads only get residency spots if they graduate top of their class. I started this thread to see if I was competitive for one of these schools and all I got is people telling me not to go.

 

[RussianJoo]

They make it seem like Caribbean grads only get residency spots if they graduate top of their class. I started this thread to see if I was competitive for one of these schools and all I got is people telling me not to go.

dude why don't you look at the average gpa and mcat scores of those schools and that will tell you if you're competitive or not. we're not on the admission board, and will tell you the same thing that you'll find out when looking at the school acceptance averages. and if you don't like what people are telling you then stop asking for advice.

 

[nlax30]

They make it seem like Caribbean grads only get residency spots if they graduate top of their class. I started this thread to see if I was competitive for one of these schools and all I got is people telling me not to go.

I was only responding to your last comment about people on here saying Caribbean grads can't find work.... which is not what people are saying at all.

Maybe there's a decent reason that a fair number of people on here are telling you to really stop and think about this decision and consider the US route. Those physicians you spoke to who said to go Caribbean.....show them some of the latest residency match results showing match rates among US and non-US grads and see if they still recommend what they did.

 

[Gator11]

I was only responding to your last comment about people on here saying Caribbean grads can't find work.... which is not what people are saying at all.

Maybe there's a decent reason that a fair number of people on here are telling you to really stop and think about this decision and consider the US route. Those physicians you spoke to who said to go Caribbean.....show them some of the latest residency match results showing match rates among US and non-US grads and see if they still recommend what they did.

thats the point, on valuemd I have a similar post and I have heard from a good amount that got their match but I have still haven't heard from someone saying they didn't get there spots. My threads over there is named are you happy with your choice and so far nobody has said no. I looked at the match rates for SGU and they seemed pretty good. I wasn't able to find any data on AUC. I just find it funny that I asked if I will get in and all I got were people telling me to go DO instead. One guy even followed over to the valuemd thread and responed to pretty much every indiviual that said they were happy with their outcomes from those schools. Look, getting through med school is hard so it isn't a shocker that finding a residency spot is difficult. Finding a residency spot was nowhere in my question.

I will say the valuemd thread got a lot more feed back that seemed focus on the point. I tell you what if there is a AUC grad or SGU grad that isn't happy with their outcome then let them say it.

 

[McGillGrad]

I feel bad for people like you. You seemed to be over your head already and all you're doing is researching the schools. You might just fail out if your responses are any indication of your common sense.

 

[Gator11]

I feel bad for people like you. You seemed to be over your head already and all you're doing is researching the schools. You might just fail out if your responses are any indication of your common sense.

Dude, I really don't care what you think. I have seen your post on this forum and you seem to just argue with everyone. Yes I am researching the schools, did you not do that? Should I just pick one blindly? But thanks for your concern. I really appreciate you taking the time to climb down from your high horse and giving your sympathy to me.

 

[McGillGrad]

You should care what I think because I obviously know more than you about everything you're asking about. Researching a school is not asking other people what can be found on the school's website. That is douchebaggery.

You are lazy and rude and have no common sense. Your sense of entitlement is shockingly common and detrimental to your future.

The fact that you have no taken the time to look at the school's websites and find their published matriculated stats is telling of how you expect to be spoonfed. This is a fine attitude in US medical schools but will lead to your failure in Caribbean medical school.

Caribbean schools are "old school" in sense that you sink or swim on your own. If you struggle, there is no help. If anything, your intelligence, will and motivation will be blatantly questioned.

Dude, I really don't care what you think. I have seen your post on this forum and you seem to just argue with everyone. Yes I am researching the schools, did you not do that? Should I just pick one blindly? But thanks for your concern. I really appreciate you taking the time to climb down from your high horse and giving your sympathy to me.

 

[ChairmanMao]

Gator, while it never hurts to go and ask people how they feel about a medical school or about whether to go DO or Carribbean, I would really advise you to take the information that you see on an anonymous post with a grain of salt. Just because everyone says that they're happy with Carribbean MD or with a DO program does not mean that you will have the same experience. It just might be those who are unhappy or who dropped out the program don't like to advertise that fact on this forum.

Apart from that, I would I have to agree that the Carribbean medical school is a huge risk compared to the DO program. With Carribbean programs, a lot of schools are for profit institutions and accept more applicants than they have available spots in the US for 3rd and 4th year rotations. This means that out of the 400 accepted applicants, only 300 or so might graduate, and even fewer might be able to match into a residency. Those who don't graduate simply failed out, or aren't even qualified to take the USMLE - if that happens, the Carribbean medical schools simply take your money and leave you to fend for yourself. With DO schools, they at least allow you to retake class and repeat a year (trust me if DO schools fail as many people as Carribbean schools they would have already been shut down), they also have their own residency programs so that you can match into both DO and MD residencies.

You can ask around on the website and elsewhere, but most people here seem to agree that you have a better chance of succeeding in a DO program rather than a Carribbean medical school.

 

[Gator11]

You should care what I think because I obviously know more than you about everything you're asking about. Researching a school is not asking other people what can be found on the school's website. That is douchebaggery.

You are lazy and rude and have no common sense. Your sense of entitlement is shockingly common and detrimental to your future.

The fact that you have no taken the time to look at the school's websites and find their published matriculated stats is telling of how you expect to be spoonfed. This is a fine attitude in US medical schools but will lead to your failure in Caribbean medical school.

Caribbean schools are "old school" in sense that you sink or swim on your own. If you struggle, there is no help. If anything, your intelligence, will and motivation will be blatantly questioned.

haha you are a complete joke. You make so many assumptions its funny. For the record I did research the schools, I have visited the websites, I have spoken to the pre-med councilor at my school, and I have spoken with admission councilors from each of these schools and US MD and DO schools. I have visit other sites and I have spoken with over 20 doctors about this. I have 4 friends at 3 different schools as well. You just assumed I was to lazy. Maybe next time you should read the question before answering it

I guess with your never ending supply of common sense you failed to realize I was simply asking if my numbers are compitive. But thanks Im sure you feel real great right now. You can go back to building yourself up now

ChairmanMao,
I appreciate your advice but honestly I already chose against DO. I don't have anything against them personally. If I don't get into AUC or SGU, I will be getting masters and then apply to US and Caribbean MD programs.

 

[dragonfly99]

It sounds like you have decided against DO.
That is fine...you chose the less safe route but for you it might be the best choice. You say you had a 3.0 at a top engineering school, and you got mid 20's on the MCAT. You can likely do the work of med school. The rest is up to you.

In your situation (someone who doesn't want to consider DO) then I think your options are to either get some sort of postbac or special master's degree program, plus retake the MCAT and get >30, or just go abroad. You can go to Caribbean, or Europe (? Ireland) or maybe Australia or Israel. I think your stats are good enough to get in somewhere. Whether you can get into a particular place would be just a guess...like people mentioned above

I don't think you should assume that nobody from a Caribbean school is unhappy with his/her choice to go down there, or his/her education. There is certainly a great variation among the different schools down there. There are a lot of students who failed out, who you won't see posting on the internet a lot (but there ARE posts by them on here, if you did a search). I also have seen multiple threads/posts from Caribbean grads having a hard time getting a residency.

Also as mentioned above (but that you seemed to not want to hear/accept) the US schools are expanding so that may leave less spots in residency in 4-5 years for Caribbean grads. It might not, since Congress is discussing increasing the number of residency positions. I just want to point out that being stuck with no residency after going down there for school would be horrible (financially and otherwise). It probably won't happen if you do well, but nobody goes down there to the Caribbean thinking he will fail out or not get his desired residency. Risk of not getting the residency you like IMHO is >> that of failing out for someone with your stats (assuming you do the work). I think you should ask yourself if you could/would accept doing something like internal medicine or psych even if that's not your preferred specialty, b/c it could happen. If you are open to doing a variety of possible specialties in the future, then I think going down there is less risky for you.

 

[Gator11]

It sounds like you have decided against DO.
That is fine...you chose the less safe route but for you it might be the best choice. You say you had a 3.0 at a top engineering school, and you got mid 20's on the MCAT. You can likely do the work of med school. The rest is up to you.

In your situation (someone who doesn't want to consider DO) then I think your options are to either get some sort of postbac or special master's degree program, plus retake the MCAT and get >30, or just go abroad. You can go to Caribbean, or Europe (? Ireland) or maybe Australia or Israel. I think your stats are good enough to get in somewhere. Whether you can get into a particular place would be just a guess...like people mentioned above

I don't think you should assume that nobody from a Caribbean school is unhappy with his/her choice to go down there, or his/her education. There is certainly a great variation among the different schools down there. There are a lot of students who failed out, who you won't see posting on the internet a lot (but there ARE posts by them on here, if you did a search). I also have seen multiple threads/posts from Caribbean grads having a hard time getting a residency.

Also as mentioned above (but that you seemed to not want to hear/accept) the US schools are expanding so that may leave less spots in residency in 4-5 years for Caribbean grads. It might not, since Congress is discussing increasing the number of residency positions. I just want to point out that being stuck with no residency after going down there for school would be horrible (financially and otherwise). It probably won't happen if you do well, but nobody goes down there to the Caribbean thinking he will fail out or not get his desired residency. Risk of not getting the residency you like IMHO is >> that of failing out for someone with your stats (assuming you do the work). I think you should ask yourself if you could/would accept doing something like internal medicine or psych even if that's not your preferred specialty, b/c it could happen. If you are open to doing a variety of possible specialties in the future, then I think going down there is less risky for you.

I appreciate it. Right now I want to either do Card or ER. Out of the doctors I have shadowed I enjoyed those two the most. So internal medicine would prob be the route for me. I am pretty aware that if I drop out or do poorly I will be screwed but that is the case for all schools. Thanks for your advice

 

[McGillGrad]

Ok, then you're just not that bright b/c you keep asking questions to which you should already have the answers. Good to know.

3.0 and 26... If you only went to school (w/out full time work or other hardship) and still only managed these stats then you'll probably be accepted but will struggle in school.

Good luck maintaining your mediocrity.

haha you are a complete joke. You make so many assumptions its funny. For the record I did research the schools, I have visited the websites, I have spoken to the pre-med councilor at my school, and I have spoken with admission councilors from each of these schools and US MD and DO schools. I have visit other sites and I have spoken with over 20 doctors about this. I have 4 friends at 3 different schools as well. You just assumed I was to lazy. Maybe next time you should read the question before answering it

I guess with your never ending supply of common sense you failed to realize I was simply asking if my numbers are compitive. But thanks Im sure you feel real great right now. You can go back to building yourself up now

ChairmanMao,
I appreciate your advice but honestly I already chose against DO. I don't have anything against them personally. If I don't get into AUC or SGU, I will be getting masters and then apply to US and Caribbean MD programs.

 

[Gator11]

Ok, then you're just not that bright b/c you keep asking questions to which you should already have the answers. Good to know.

3.0 and 26... If you only went to school (w/out full time work or other hardship) and still only managed these stats then you'll probably be accepted but will struggle in school.

Good luck maintaining your mediocrity.

thanks a 3.0 in engineering when the average for all students is a 2.6 and on top of that graduating with 172 credit hours makes me an idiot. I wish I could be as bright as you. After all you are at a Caribbean school because you graduated with a 4.0 and and 41 on your MCAT.

Good luck maintaining your douche bad status

 

[McGillGrad]

hehe... so a top ten school has an average of 2.6? Make me glad that I am Canadian, where real education still exists.

Don't you find it ironic that you are attempting to insult me for being a Carib student when you haven't even been accepted by a Caribbean school? That is fantastic! You're a 2009 Monty Python Black Knight.

You are the reason why people look down on carib schools....well, if you actually make it through, that is.

thanks a 3.0 in engineering when the average for all students is a 2.6 and on top of that graduating with 172 credit hours makes me an idiot. I wish I could be as bright as you. After all you are at a Caribbean school because you graduated with a 4.0 and and 41 on your MCAT.

Good luck maintaining your douche bad status

 

[beastiemaa]

McGill, are you related to Dr. Fraud?

 

[Gator11]

hehe... so a top ten school has an average of 2.6? Make me glad that I am Canadian, where real education still exists.

Don't you find it ironic that you are attempting to insult me for being a Carib student when you haven't even been accepted by a Caribbean school? That is fantastic! You're a 2009 Monty Python Black Knight.

You are the reason why people look down on carib schools....well, if you actually make it through, that is.

I really don't know why I am still responding to you but the fact that most of your post are so stupid I just feel the need to correct you. My engineering program is a top ten and a GPA under 3.0 is pretty common in engineering. Sorry to disappoint but Canada does not have better a better university system then the US.

I wasn't insulting you because of the carribean school, I was pointing out the fact that you probably have numbers comparable to mine.

I am happy that you are keeping up your douche bag status. I know it must be hard when all you do is talk s*** to people online all day. I want to dedicate Brad Paisley's song online to you. Look it up if you are not familiar with it.

 

[Gator11]

by the way did you really say hehe?

 

[McGillGrad]

Actually my stats were higher than yours and my credit hours were higher too (~300). That's moot because I have already taken step 1 and unless you score above a 241 then you should probably pipe down.

Do whatever yo want. I wish you the best. I just like to act like an ass sometimes. You should get into SGU and will probably do great. Good luck.

I really don't know why I am still responding to you but the fact that most of your post are so stupid I just feel the need to correct you. My engineering program is a top ten and a GPA under 3.0 is pretty common in engineering. Sorry to disappoint but Canada does not have better a better university system then the US.

I wasn't insulting you because of the carribean school, I was pointing out the fact that you probably have numbers comparable to mine.

I am happy that you are keeping up your douche bag status. I know it must be hard when all you do is talk s*** to people online all day. I want to dedicate Brad Paisley's song online to you. Look it up if you are not familiar with it.