Will my application be strong enough after another year (2017-2018 cycle)?

[Maester_Dave]

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I applied broadly to 30+ MD schools at the end of senior year with a 3.83 cGPA, 3.86 sGPA, and 33 MCAT (10/11/12), and I received 4 IIs resulting in 2 waitlists and 2 rejections. I had a “good but not great” PS, and decent LORs. Non-URM, CA resident from a top UC undergrad. My activities included the following:

Clinical Service:
Children’s hospital volunteer (2.5 yrs, 250 hrs)
Free health fair club volunteer (1.5 yrs, 100 hrs)
Nonclinical Service:
Tutoring underprivileged children (0.25 yrs, 50 hrs)
Summer camp counselor for pediatric cancer patients (100 hrs)
Shadowing:
Shadowing pediatrician (50 hrs)
Research:
Dev. bio research (2 yrs, 900 hrs, no pubs, presented 3 posters)
Awards:
Research scholarship and academic scholarship
Magna cum laude

Looking back, I feel that I rushed into applying with lacking ECs, so I’ve paid the price. My interviews were sub-par on average, but I did get better over time and learn how to improve. I recently applied to two SMPs that almost guarantee admission, however I do not maintain any expectations.

Thus, I have decided to take another year off before applying, and I came here to seek advice or feedback on my second application. Because my MCAT was from 2013, I will have to retake the new one, and it’s not going to be fun. I am hoping to score the equivalent of 30 or better, while shooting for the sky. Nevertheless, here’s a tentative list of add-ons to my activities:

Clinical Service:
ER volunteer (will be 2 yrs, ~400 hrs)
Looking to volunteer at a free health clinic (hopefully ~1.5 yrs, ~250 hrs)
Nonclinical Service:
Beginning to volunteer tutor underprivileged children at 2 different organizations (~1.5 yrs, hopefully ~275 hrs). I also hope to acquire a leadership position at one of these places later on.
Shadowing:
Looking to shadow a primary care DO (~50-100 hrs)
Teaching:
Teaching/tutoring elementary through high school part-time at an afterschool program (will be 2 yrs, ~2500 hrs)

I’m thinking of reapplying to about 15 ‘old’ schools and 15 ‘new’ ones, including a handful of DO schools. How do you guys think my application will fair for the 2017-2018 cycle? Any suggestions? Constructive criticism? Thank you very much in advance.

 

[ZedsDed]

I suspect more was at play than simply what exists on paper. How were your interviews?

 

[Maester_Dave]

I suspect more was at play than simply what exists on paper. How were your interviews?

My first interview was MMI, and though I was nervous at first, I thought I did well for about 75% of the stations, and probably messed up a bit on the rest. I'm also not someone who talks a lot, like go on and on about something, so I felt that my interview answers were more brief and to the point, which could have been bad. My second interview was traditional and it went alright for the most part. I did realize later on that I did not prepare as much as I could have, or in the right way. My third interview was a real screw-up because I went very unprepared to show enough interest in the school, and the long interview day caused anxiety to build up. My last interview was my best - I went very prepared and was pretty comfortable throughout. I could have been more confident though and articulate more clearly. Throughout the interviews, I felt like a big problem was a lack of enough things to talk about on my app, so next time that problem could be ameliorated

 

[ZedsDed]

My first interview was MMI, and though I was nervous at first, I thought I did well for about 75% of the stations, and probably messed up a bit on the rest. I'm also not someone who talks a lot, like go on and on about something, so I felt that my interview answers were more brief and to the point, which could have been bad. My second interview was traditional and it went alright for the most part. I did realize later on that I did not prepare as much as I could have, or in the right way. My third interview was a real screw-up because I went very unprepared to show enough interest in the school, and the long interview day caused anxiety to build up. My last interview was my best - I went very prepared and was pretty comfortable throughout. I could have been more confident though and articulate more clearly. Throughout the interviews, I felt like a big problem was a lack of enough things to talk about on my app, so next time that problem could be ameliorated

Did you call the schools to ask for input?

 

[Maester_Dave]

Although interviewing definitely played a part, I think my overall app would have played a bigger role in not receiving acceptance. For example, even after applying to 30 schools, I only received 4 IIs (from october to january).

 

[Maester_Dave]

Did you call the schools to ask for input?

I have called the 2 schools which rejected me and they said they don't offer any feedback. I will get on contacting the other two which waitlisted me. Is it acceptable to ask for post-interview feedback at waitlisted schools though? Like it wouldn't be seen negatively or anything.

 

[ZedsDed]

Is it acceptable to ask for post-interview feedback at waitlisted schools though? Like it wouldn't be seen negatively or anything.

I'm not sure. @gyngyn would know.

 

[ZedsDed]

Although interviewing definitely played a part, I think my overall app would have played a bigger role in not receiving acceptance. For example, even after applying to 30 schools, I only received 4 IIs (from october to january).

I agree, just trying to cover all the bases here.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Unless it's Tulanes ACP or Temples ACMS program I wouldn't do an SMP until trying at least another cycle

You seem to know your strengths and weaknesses. Key for you is how will you improve your weaknesses because that'll dictate much of your fate as a reapp

Your proposed plan sounds good. You could have used more non clinical service for your first time app so that is something to give focus to now.

 

[gyngyn]

I have called the 2 schools which rejected me and they said they don't offer any feedback. I will get on contacting the other two which waitlisted me. Is it acceptable to ask for post-interview feedback at waitlisted schools though? Like it wouldn't be seen negatively or anything.

I don't recommend it.

 

[Goro]

It's now time to work on your interview skills.

I applied broadly to 30+ MD schools at the end of senior year with a 3.83 cGPA, 3.86 sGPA, and 33 MCAT (10/11/12), and I received 4 IIs resulting in 2 waitlists and 2 rejections. I had a “good but not great” PS, and decent LORs. Non-URM, CA resident from a top UC undergrad. My activities included the following:

Clinical Service:
Children’s hospital volunteer (2.5 yrs, 250 hrs)
Free health fair club volunteer (1.5 yrs, 100 hrs)
Nonclinical Service:
Tutoring underprivileged children (0.25 yrs, 50 hrs)
Summer camp counselor for pediatric cancer patients (100 hrs)
Shadowing:
Shadowing pediatrician (50 hrs)
Research:
Dev. bio research (2 yrs, 900 hrs, no pubs, presented 3 posters)
Awards:
Research scholarship and academic scholarship
Magna cum laude

Looking back, I feel that I rushed into applying with lacking ECs, so I’ve paid the price. My interviews were sub-par on average, but I did get better over time and learn how to improve. I recently applied to two SMPs that almost guarantee admission, however I do not maintain any expectations.

Thus, I have decided to take another year off before applying, and I came here to seek advice or feedback on my second application. Because my MCAT was from 2013, I will have to retake the new one, and it’s not going to be fun. I am hoping to score the equivalent of 30 or better, while shooting for the sky. Nevertheless, here’s a tentative list of add-ons to my activities:

Clinical Service:
ER volunteer (will be 2 yrs, ~400 hrs)
Looking to volunteer at a free health clinic (hopefully ~1.5 yrs, ~250 hrs)
Nonclinical Service:
Beginning to volunteer tutor underprivileged children at 2 different organizations (~1.5 yrs, hopefully ~275 hrs). I also hope to acquire a leadership position at one of these places later on.
Shadowing:
Looking to shadow a primary care DO (~50-100 hrs)
Teaching:
Teaching/tutoring elementary through high school at an afterschool program (will be 2 yrs, ~2500 hrs)

I’m thinking of reapplying to about 15 ‘old’ schools and 15 ‘new’ ones, including a handful of DO schools. How do you guys think my application will fair for the 2017-2018 cycle? Any suggestions? Constructive criticism? Thank you very much in advance.

 

[jerfer]

your MCAT is excellent. I don't see anything shockingly wrong with your EC's, either. Work on getting those more up to par in order to apply to this next coming cycle if nothing works out with the waitlists you're already on. I would NOT take the extra year, with having to take the MCAT again, and risk getting a lower score. It's an exhaustive test, and I think you would be bringing even more trouble upon yourself by doing that. Apply more strategically, work on your PS, get glowing LOR's (not just average) and you've already been through the interview process 4 times now, you need to figure out what went wrong there because based on your story, i can almost guarantee thats what went wrong this time around. long story short, i think it'd be incredibly foolish to take an extra year.

 

[jerfer]

and you can always continue to express interest to the schools you're waitlisted on, like with letters of interest, additional letters of recommendation. The cycle's not over yet. MANY students are first waitlisted before they matriculate.

 

[Maester_Dave]

Unless it's Tulanes ACP or Temples ACMS program I wouldn't do an SMP until trying at least another cycle

You seem to know your strengths and weaknesses. Key for you is how will you improve your weaknesses because that'll dictate much of your fate as a reapp

Your proposed plan sounds good. You could have used more non clinical service for your first time app so that is something to give focus to now.

Those are the two SMPs I applied to. I later realized my MCAT is probably expired for Temple though. And Tulane is kinda risky with about 83% admission, so I'm not banking on either. I'm really hoping the new ECs to my app (in addition to better PS and essays) will make a big difference. In reality I won't be able to make a drastic overhaul with interviewing skills, but I can take a few steps given my past interview experiences.

 

[Maester_Dave]

your MCAT is excellent. I don't see anything shockingly wrong with your EC's, either. Work on getting those more up to par in order to apply to this next coming cycle if nothing works out with the waitlists you're already on. I would NOT take the extra year, with having to take the MCAT again, and risk getting a lower score. It's an exhaustive test, and I think you would be bringing even more trouble upon yourself by doing that. Apply more strategically, work on your PS, get glowing LOR's (not just average) and you've already been through the interview process 4 times now, you need to figure out what went wrong there because based on your story, i can almost guarantee thats what went wrong this time around. long story short, i think it'd be incredibly foolish to take an extra year.

I would really like to apply this coming cycle without having to retake the MCAT (assuming my Sep. 2013 MCAT is allowed), but I just don't feel strongly that my reapp would be much stronger. During this gap year what I've done so far is teach/tutor part time and volunteer in the ER, and I feel that I need to include more service to the underserved, especially since my target schools focus on that. Thanks for your opinion though. I would like to hear more from others about whether I should apply this coming cycle or not.

 

[jerfer]

I would really like to apply this coming cycle without having to retake the MCAT (assuming my Sep. 2013 MCAT is allowed), but I just don't feel strongly that my reapp would be much stronger. During this gap year what I've done so far is teach/tutor part time and volunteer in the ER, and I feel that I need to include more service to the underserved, especially since my target schools focus on that. Thanks for your opinion though. I would like to hear more from others about whether I should apply this coming cycle or not.

get feedback from the schools who DIDN'T offer you an interview. If this appears to be the consensus, then you have your answer.

 

[GrapesofRath]

And Tulane is kinda risky with about 83% admission, .

Kind of off topic but perspective is everything. If by chance you get into this program(and you certainly might they dont get many applications) I would strongly recommend taking it and not looking back if you are still having doubts.

Your odds when you reapply to MD schools will probably not be as high as 83% as a reapplicant from CA with a 3.9/33 who is a reapplicant almost anywhere regardless of how much you improve. Keep in mind some people from Tulanes SMP end up at other MD schools so really I think it's about closer to 90% who end up at US MD schools from there. Take a look from yourself: Nobody's odds, regardless of how qualified they are, are 100%. At least 10% of all kinds of applicants get rejected each year.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

My point is if you get that spot at Tulane's ACP it's hard to come up with an argument not to take it. There comes a point where you have to accept inherent risk with everything: even 5-10% of US MD students who start as MS1's wont go on to residency for various reasons.

 

[Maester_Dave]

Kind of off topic but perspective is everything. If by chance you get into this program(and you certainly might they dont get many applications) I would strongly recommend taking it and not looking back if you are still having doubts.

Your odds when you reapply to MD schools will probably not be as high as 83% as a reapplicant from CA with a 3.9/33 who is a reapplicant almost anywhere regardless of how much you improve. Keep in mind some people from Tulanes SMP end up at other MD schools so really I think it's about closer to 90% who end up at US MD schools from there. Take a look from yourself: Nobody's odds, regardless of how qualified they are, are 100%. At least 10% of all kinds of applicants get rejected each year.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

My point is if you get that spot at Tulane's ACP it's hard to come up with an argument not to take it. There comes a point where you have to accept inherent risk with everything: even 5-10% of US MD students who start as MS1's wont go on to residency for various reasons.

If I do get in Tulane's ACP, I would most likely take it, but my fears lie in not getting into any other MD school during the 2016-2017 cycle - especially if I don't get into Tulane's. Getting accepted into Tulane's ACP means I have to apply to schools for the 2016-2017 cycle, and I just hope that my first gap year's ECs will make a big enough difference. Again, not being accepted anywhere would infinitely weaken a third app. Getting into Tulane ACP opens up this absurd debacle (entirely because of me of course).

 

[GrapesofRath]

If I do get in Tulane's ACP, I would most likely take it, but my fears lie in not getting into any other MD school during the 2016-2017 cycle - especially if I don't get into Tulane's. Getting accepted into Tulane's ACP means I have to apply to schools for the 2016-2017 cycle, and I just hope that my first gap year's ECs will make a big enough difference. Again, not being accepted anywhere would infinitely weaken a third app. Getting into Tulane ACP opens up this absurd debacle (entirely because of me of course).

There's no reason you have to apply to MD Schools while at Tulane's ACP.

Take care of what you need to in the program and youll be part of the 85% accepted into their class. That's the whole point of the program. If you arent part of that 85%, that's what you need to worry about because there's a reason for that and it's not a good thing, not your ECs not making enough difference.

 

[Maester_Dave]

If you arent part of that 85%, that's what you need to worry about because there's a reason for that and it's not a good thing, not your ECs not making enough difference.

If I do get into the ACP, there's no doubt in my mind that I would excel in the program, especially if I don't have to retake the MCAT or interview elsewhere. However, I'm not sure what you're saying here though: what would I need to worry about if I'm not part of the 85%? Poor interviewing skills? I don't come across as socially inept or psychopathic, and again, I would mostly attribute my lack of success to an under-competitive app in terms of experiences.

 

[Maester_Dave]

So do you guys agree that taking a year off for more service is the right decision? (I'm half seeking peace of mind). So far I've been teaching part-time and ER volunteering.

 

[Maester_Dave]

I'm concerned about how my current activities will be seen. I didn't make it clear that I'm only teaching/tutoring part-time (~25 hrs/week) and ED volunteering 4 hrs/week. As previously stated, I plan on adding volunteering + shadowing activities for at least 10 hrs/week. By the time I reapply, I will be 2 years out of school. Will working only part-time with volunteering be seen as immature for not working full-time? The thing is I will also be studying for the MCAT, and working full time along with volunteering will make it difficult. Also, I'm staying with my parents to save money.

@GrapesofRath
@Goro
(Sorry to be this guy but I highly appreciate your opinion)

 

[Goro]

As long as you have something to show for your time, and that it's wasn't merely moths of MCAT prep only, you'll be fine.

I'm concerned about how my current activities will be seen. I didn't make it clear that I'm only teaching/tutoring part-time (~25 hrs/week) and ED volunteering 4 hrs/week. As previously stated, I plan on adding volunteering + shadowing activities for at least 10 hrs/week. By the time I reapply, I will be 2 years out of school. Will working only part-time with volunteering be seen as immature for not working full-time? The thing is I will also be studying for the MCAT, and working full time along with volunteering will make it difficult. Also, I'm staying with my parents to save money.

@GrapesofRath
@Goro
(Sorry to be this guy but I highly appreciate your opinion)