I know this might be super frowned upon on this forum, but one of the schools that waitlisted me I really don't think I want to attend. I know that if I were accepted and decided to decline in favor of reapplying, schools I'd be a reapplicant at would know of what I did and would most likely look down on this. However, does anyone know if withdrawing myself from the waitlist at a school is a) super frowned upon, and/or b) something that other schools I applied to would find out about? I just don't want to take up a spot when I don't really want to go. It was extremely expensive and lacking in the kind of diversity that I am looking for in a school. Also, I don't think I'd mesh well with the school and its students. I'd rather reapply than potentially be in massive debt and unhappy somewhere for the next 4 years. There were a lot of things I did wrong this cycle (not studying for the MCAT, taking it sick, being complete in mid-October, not applying to many schools, etc.) and I think my chances will be much higher next year. What do you guys think?
Withdrawing my position on the waitlist
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If you would not apply regardless of whether or not you got in, go ahead and withdraw. However, if there is even a chance that you'd be able to suck it up and live through those four years without being in severe distress, stay on the waitlist.
You met the students you were interacting with for all of 5 hours, and you definitely didn't meet everyone, so you're probably being a little premature in saying you don't think you'd mesh well with the school and its students. From what I've seen, medical students everywhere are largely the same in that they are highly variant. Schools look for certain qualities in candidates, but when interviewing, everyone has a game face on. The students you met were probably the same way.
Admissions tries to choose the most bubbly and outgoing people to lead tours and run interviews, so unless you met over half the class and found that they were all exactly the same with the exact same mannerisms and histories, I'd suggest you stay on that waitlist.
You met the students you were interacting with for all of 5 hours, and you definitely didn't meet everyone, so you're probably being a little premature in saying you don't think you'd mesh well with the school and its students. From what I've seen, medical students everywhere are largely the same in that they are highly variant. Schools look for certain qualities in candidates, but when interviewing, everyone has a game face on. The students you met were probably the same way.
Admissions tries to choose the most bubbly and outgoing people to lead tours and run interviews, so unless you met over half the class and found that they were all exactly the same with the exact same mannerisms and histories, I'd suggest you stay on that waitlist.
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I don't know about this. If you have a compelling reason that you do not want to attend the school (maybe you were treated poorly when you interviewed), anyone would understand why you chose not to go there.
OP- You're going to have to be VERY careful when explaining this to other programs. It's by no means a good position to put yourself in. If you know 110% that you would not attend the school if you got in, I recommend dropping them March 14 (or whenever the day before the waitlist could possibly move).
I interviewed on Monday and was waitlisted Friday...not like I had a ton of time to think it over :/
I don't know. I think I might just try my luck. Only schools that I'd be a reapplicant at would know. At least that's what I've gathered from other threads.
I'm a URM, and I really liked that the school in question recruited so many of us, however; diversity is very important to me, and it kind of defeats the purpose of it when it is 80% all one race. Do you know what I mean? I wanted to withdraw my interview invitation, but my mom forced me to go...it wasn't a bad experience, the interview, but I could tell I wouldn't really fit in there or be happy there, and for $80,000/year, I'd like to be at least happy with where I am.
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My favorite is how they want some deep, philosophic reason why we want to attend or why their mission statement resonates with our inner essence, but you ask them why they work there and they're like "Oh, the food around here is pretty good."
Like this is a two way street...these school's are businesses and they need us
Their classes start in June, so when do you think would be a good time to do it?
What date would that be? Is that specific to each school?
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So schools get information on where you have been waitlisted these days? I could have sworn that they only got information on where you were accepted... Does the application ask if you were ever waitlisted and then decided to not stay on the waitlist when you reapply? I thought only asked if you had applied before, and whether or not you had attended a medical school in the past. I could be wrong in all of this, which is why I am expressing my uncertainty.
But I am pretty sure that some of the advice offered by Euxox is not entirely sound.
But I am pretty sure that some of the advice offered by Euxox is not entirely sound.
I thought that was something only students who were accepted had to do?
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Schools will ask you if you've applied. In which case the OP could honestly say they applied last year but were not accepted, and are therefore reapplying.
The school hasn't accepted the OP, so if he/she withdraws from the wait list prior to receiving an offer, I don't see the issue when it comes to reapplying.
Now that doesn't mean that withdrawing is the smart thing to do, but this whole "killing your reapplication next year" line of thinking is overblown.
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Eh. I just don't think it is that big a deal. The school hasn't made you any offer, so why are you morally compelled to feel bad? They haven't let you in and, at a lot schools, your chances of getting off the wait list are like 1%.
I actually had something similar to this happen - my dad worked in the administration of a University (not the med school) but happened to know the dean of admissions through a couple of committees. I withdrew off their wait list after I got into my top choice. The dean approached my dad at the next meeting and seemed shocked, asking what had happened. My dad minorly flipped out and was like "YOU didn't let him in, and you're upset??".
You also just can't know much about a school before you visit it, and there is no shame in realizing somewhere isn't a great "fit" and withdrawing.
I withdrew from several med schools and, years later, decided not to rank a couple of residency programs.
Now that said, I don't think it's super smart to withdraw your ONLY shot if you've not been accepted elsewhere. If this is the OP's best shot at the moment, he/she needs to think long and hard about whether they would rather go here, or not be a doctor. Because that's a very real possibility.
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SouthernIM and Muddyduck7 are correct. OP, if you definitely don't want to attend the school, then just withdraw. You don't have to report it next year. You can just say you are a reapplicant, didn't get accepted anywhere, and leave it at that. There is no reason to over-share just for the sake of being 100% transparent, you need to do whats in your best interest. This process is about you getting into the best program for you, you don't have to handicap yourself by giving the adcoms absolutely everything you think they want if that info might work against your chances. Be aware of what the adcoms know and don't know, and don't shoot yourself in the foot.
The only way a school would know is if you reapply to that same school that waitlisted you, which you obviously aren't going to do. I would also echo what tentacles said, you might mesh better at the school than you think. Sometimes interview day impressions aren't totally accurate, but I know they can make a big difference. Most schools have open-minded, accepting students that you'd get along well with regardless of your first impressions. Reapplying is hard work and pretty stressful.
The only way a school would know is if you reapply to that same school that waitlisted you, which you obviously aren't going to do. I would also echo what tentacles said, you might mesh better at the school than you think. Sometimes interview day impressions aren't totally accurate, but I know they can make a big difference. Most schools have open-minded, accepting students that you'd get along well with regardless of your first impressions. Reapplying is hard work and pretty stressful.
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Exactly
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That's not dishonest at all. What crack are you smoking? He wasn't accepted, yet. That's the question they ask. You're not leaving out any information they need to know. They will ask what you've done to better your ap in the last year. He will have an answer for that. (Retake mcat, apply early, etc.).
There are two good reasons not to withdraw. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. You have no guarantees of admission next year. And you lose a year of income. That's $200k-1m of lost income. Consider that.
The situation is complicated by not properly studying for the MCAT, URM status, late ap, etc. so conventional wisdom may not apply here. If he kills the MCAT and applies early he might get multiple better offers with scholarships. Who knows. It happens.
He'll probably get in somewhere else anyway, it's November not March.
BTW, if the school has 20% minorities I think that they're probably doing pretty good. Look at traditionally black schools if you really want more minority presence.
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And he didn't give up an acceptance. He thinks the school sucks and is too expensive, so much so that he'd rather give up a year of income, retake the MCAT, and reapply. Why wait for an acceptance he knows he'd decline. If he is really 100% that certain, he should drop now. With no stigma attached.
Well, that's not 100% correct, he'd have the scarlet letter of a reapplicant. Some schools will care more than others.
Well, that's not 100% correct, he'd have the scarlet letter of a reapplicant. Some schools will care more than others.
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The point is, OP has no obligation to report he/she was wait listed to future adcoms. Even if OP does get accepted off the WL, withdraws, and reapplies, OP doesn't have to report this in a future app cycle, other than the fact that he's a reapplicant. Its really not any of the adcom's business. The only reason I would caution against this is if future adcoms can see what schools you were accepted to in past years, but I doubt they can.
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I thought schools could see if you'd previously been accepted or matriculated.
Which is why I am saying, if OP is truly certain, withdrawing from the wait list now is an important distinction.
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Oh ok, then yeah. I would withdraw now if theres no chance of OP going. I personally would stay on the wait list and matriculate if accepted, but I can understand there are potential reasons OP wouldn't want to go there no matter what.
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Withdraw, never apply there again if you turn reapplicant, and it won't look any more bad than being a reapplicant. If you don't want to go there, don't. It is only dicey when you turn down an acceptance and then reapply. The only people who will know are you and this one school.
It's looked down upon to be a reapplicant? Wtf? Why? I know a lot of people who were accepted the second time around and it wasn't a big deal.
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The word choice wasn't great, but there certainly is a negative stigma. Being a reapplicant invites admissions committees to ask, "Why didn't this applicant get in the first time?" Rather than "Who is this person?" "Looking down" was probably a poor choice of words.
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Its not necessarily a positive thing. Some schools see it as a negative thing (so much so for some that after 3 application cycles, they will never consider you again) and others don't really give much weight.
I'd say a bird in the hand kind of deal. There are no guarantees and you haven't even been accepted. While you might not care about losing a year in potential salary, I would think that it would be best to at least have a possible place to go next year. Even if I hated the school (Which I don't understand why you even applied...), I hate the idea of reapplying, going through anxiety, not having a school next year, possibly retaking the MCAT or SMP/masters even more. Even if an applicant gets into their last choice school, at the end of the 4 years they will get to be called a doctor as opposed to leaving it to chance and trying to get into a good school and being called a re-applicant.
There could be any number of reasons an applicant wasn't admitted the first time around. This is a very long and arduous process, and I didn't decide on med school until right before my senior year of college. I did not have the guidance of fellow pre-meds or of a pre-med advisor, nor did I even visit this website until this past October. I was just anxious to move on with my life and eager to start living my dream. Obviously I jumped the gun a little bit and should have waited before applying. Obviously I regret that. But I'd like to think that admissions committees would see how serious I am about becoming a doctor not only by my reapplication, but also in how much I've improved as an applicant. If that's something they can't acknowledge, then I doubt that's a school I'd like to be at anyways.
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I wasn't speaking to your application specifically, but rather to the attitude that some admissions committees take with regard to applications. I'm sure your particular reasons for being a reapplicant make perfect sense in the context of your application, but the stigma does exist and is thus something to be aware of. My remark was not meant as a comment on any particular applicant but more as a reflection of some of the issues reapplicants face. I applied thrice myself and was accepted on my third try, so I have some understanding of what it feels like to be a reapplicant, even if my reasons aren't the same as yours; there's no reason at all to be defensive.
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I knew someone in this same exact predicament as you two years ago. He ended up withdrawing, retaking the MCAT and getting a 38 and reapplying.
He didn't get in anywhere and is kicking himself in the butt for not waiting on the waitlist. He is trying for a third time this year and he says this is his last attempt before trying something else. Last I heard he has one interview in December and a few more in January so he still has hope. But he could have been in his second year by now if he would have waited.
To the OP, I would say for most people being a doctor is more important than what school you go to. If you are given the chance, I would jump on it and never look back. You don't want to be in the same position as my friend. It isn't fun.
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A 38 MCAT and he hasn't gotten in anywhere? Your friend must have a low gpa or some major flaw in his or her app.
And to the OP how much does it hurt to stay on the waitlist? I mean this isn't really a problem. Being on waitlist doesn't make you have any commitments so just sit and wait for now, and during that time read up some more on the school and get to know it a bit more. You might change your mind about the school and if they do extend for interview you won't be kicking yourself saying "What could have been?!!" Unless of course your accepted somewhere you would like to be then thats a whole different story.
I already interviewed haha. And yeah I think I will take my chances. Applying with a 27 and a 3.97 has still gotten me 3 interviews. I think with a 30 and 600 hrs of experience in the medical field (only had 60 of shadowing before) and more volunteering I'll be better off than I was this cycle.
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How did the other interviews go or when are they?
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One of my interviews definitely knew I was a reapplicant and I just looked through my secondary and nowhere on it did I have to disclose that (this is my 1st time applying to this school). I used to think what you think too. And I got pretty much destroyed at another interview for not having a super convincing reason as to why I'm a reapplicant. I applied late last year and got waitlisted, whereas this year I applied early and it's been working out pretty well but that wasn't a good enough for my interviewer. Some questions asked:
1- Why didn't you have your gap year planned out originally just in case you didn't get in your first time?
2- How "late" is a late app for you?
3- If your application is solid according to you, how many interviews did you get last year? What about this year?
4- How can I be sure you're ready for this career if you didn't plan out your cycle properly last year?
Needless to say, I was rejected post-interview.
I'd think twice about being a reapplicant if avoidable
Waitlisted at two and the third interview is December 11th. I thought the first two went pretty well, especially my temple interview. :/
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Just focus on improving so you won't have to reapply or retake the MCAT.
And you can stay on the waitlist and apply next year (assuming you stay on it that long). I would just ride it out and hope you don't have to throw away another few grand.
You mentioned that it'd been working out pretty well. I applied for reasons examined earlier, but also like I said, I did not decide on medicine until before my senior year. Prior to that, I was going towards veterinary medicine very halfheartedly. I wished I had taken the time to better myself as an applicant before applying, but I was over eager. I regret doing it, but what's done is done. I made a mistake and I'm learning from it. Idk, I hope you have success at your other interviews. The interviewer you described seemed unfair.
Focus on improving what? Improving for my next interview, or as an applicant for the next cycle? I need to retake the MCAT. I took it on the last possible date and was sick with the flu when I took it and unable to void since I'd already spent $800 on my primary applications. :/
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Of course for the interview! Two weeks is plenty of time! You can do it!
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Thanks! I know what you mean about schools you just can't see yourself going to. The point of my post is that make sure you have a very good answer as to why you're reapplying or someone could take that weakness in your app and try pick away at you
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Yes, she was. I wasn't too bummed about the rejection... the school left a bitter taste in my mouth
Well I guess I'm kind of at a loss for how I can do that. I already typed and memorized well thought out responses to 100 potential interview questions, memorized my application, and made a list of reasons for "why this school". I feel like that's helped a little, although they've only asked me probably 1-2 questions aside from the why this school one. I am always very outgoing in my interviews since that's just my personality, but idk. I guess I could focus on being more articulate. I think I am generally pretty articulate but obviously I could improve. Do you have any other suggestions?
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Maybe just keep working at your interviewing skills and just hope for the best. My acceptance came not from my best interview but from where the interviewers were already impressed with my app before I even met them, so I think a lot of it is out of your control. Just do your best and hope for the best haha
Memorizing answers really isn't the best way to go. The most effective interview prep is to mock interview with someone who is an experienced interviewer and can give you useful critique about your phrasing, speed, body language, etc.
Since being interviewed is a two person game, prepping by yourself will only get you so far.
I don't know any experienced interviewers lol.
Does your school offer interview prep? Do you have a family member in a professional field who has done a lot of hiring? It doesn't need to be a medical school interviewer. Lots of interview prep is universal.
I think there's been some SDN misinformation/misunderstandings on this thread. It would be lovely if LizzyM, GynGyn, Goro, or anybody else on an adcom could confirm what information schools are privy to in future application cycles. My understanding was that all programs could tell if you were a reapplicant, but that information of the specific dispositions of your last application cycle (waitlist, withdrawals, admissions offers) were not documented -- some schools do ask on the secondary if you have previously been accepted to a medical school, but AMCAS itself will only cover prior matriculation, right? And there is no way to tell if an applicant was accepted to med school in a previous year if he/she declined the offer?
I was never asked at a school what the disposition of my applications were in the prior application cycle.
If my understanding of the process is correct, then withdrawing from the waitlist will only be known about and frowned upon by that individual school, where presumably the OP will not apply again if he becomes a reapplicant. If that is the case, then the OP should stay on the waitlist until later in the cycle and live with the idea of attending this school, see how the rest of his cycle goes, and then make a decision whether or not to decline/accept an offer of admission *if it is granted.* If he withdraws from the waitlist now, he cannot change his mind . . . but if he stays on the waitlist and gets admitted, he can still choose to decline and reapply.
That said, some schools have an obvious bias against reapplicants. I would seriously consider enrolling in any school offering you admission, because this is a fickle and unpredictable process, and you cannot guarantee that your MCAT will improve or that another cycle will turn out better.
I was never asked at a school what the disposition of my applications were in the prior application cycle.
If my understanding of the process is correct, then withdrawing from the waitlist will only be known about and frowned upon by that individual school, where presumably the OP will not apply again if he becomes a reapplicant. If that is the case, then the OP should stay on the waitlist until later in the cycle and live with the idea of attending this school, see how the rest of his cycle goes, and then make a decision whether or not to decline/accept an offer of admission *if it is granted.* If he withdraws from the waitlist now, he cannot change his mind . . . but if he stays on the waitlist and gets admitted, he can still choose to decline and reapply.
That said, some schools have an obvious bias against reapplicants. I would seriously consider enrolling in any school offering you admission, because this is a fickle and unpredictable process, and you cannot guarantee that your MCAT will improve or that another cycle will turn out better.
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The only thing I can see is if the applicant is a re-applicant to my school. Sometimes it is a good guess that this applicant has applied in the past but not at this school... in some cases a LOR will mention that the applicant was previously unsuccessful and did x, y and z to improve. sometimes an applicant will volunteer this information in the text of the application or secondary or mention it in the interview as how they dealt with a disappointment, etc.
Being waitlisted and choosing to reapply rather than sit on the waitlist is no more stigmatizing than sitting on the waitlist until the bitter end.
It is very important to have a better application in a subsequent cycle; otherwise, you are doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome.
Being waitlisted and choosing to reapply rather than sit on the waitlist is no more stigmatizing than sitting on the waitlist until the bitter end.
It is very important to have a better application in a subsequent cycle; otherwise, you are doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome.
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I'm thinking this:
So I'm gonna assume here that you're referring to Caucasian students. The United States is 79.96% white (http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/demographics_profile.html). If a school is able to hit the average racial makeup of the county, that's pretty good. I'm not sure if you would find more diversity elsewhere.
You were only there for a few hours. Maybe you can take a second look by visiting the campus???
80K/yr? Does that include living expenses or is this ONLY tuition? Is this a DO school?
You also allude to not performing well on the MCAT. Do you think that it is really holding you back from interviewing at your dream school?
Be happy. A lot of good applicants are stuck in limbo hoping even for an interview.
GL
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re: diversity: I assumed the OP was saying that 80% of the minority students were all of the same race, and that bugged the OP, not that 80% of all the students were the same race (white). If I'm correct in that understanding, naturally, that would make an HBCU school not his best choice.
OP: I think the question you ought to ask yourself is if you'd regret the decision to withdraw 5 years from now if you're still not in med school. If not, then totally go ahead and withdraw immediately.
Yeah, if you greatly improve your application over the next year then you may have an easier time next cycle, but there's no guarantees, and you may never end up having an opportunity. If you'll be kicking yourself in 5 years and would beg this school to let you in, then I'd strongly advise you to wait it out and seriously consider attending if they accept you (and the other schools do not)
P.S. No judgment here. I'm not trying to imply that if someone has even a single school that they wouldn't want to go to if accepted then they don't care enough to be a doctor. I'm just asking you to consider IF this school was the ONLY way you could become a doctor, would you still turn them down?
OP: I think the question you ought to ask yourself is if you'd regret the decision to withdraw 5 years from now if you're still not in med school. If not, then totally go ahead and withdraw immediately.
Yeah, if you greatly improve your application over the next year then you may have an easier time next cycle, but there's no guarantees, and you may never end up having an opportunity. If you'll be kicking yourself in 5 years and would beg this school to let you in, then I'd strongly advise you to wait it out and seriously consider attending if they accept you (and the other schools do not)
P.S. No judgment here. I'm not trying to imply that if someone has even a single school that they wouldn't want to go to if accepted then they don't care enough to be a doctor. I'm just asking you to consider IF this school was the ONLY way you could become a doctor, would you still turn them down?
It is 80% black. As a Hispanic, I would prefer to go somewhere with a class that is diverse in several ways (not limited to race), so going to a school that is 80% black would be the same as going to a school that is 80% white.
And yes, in one of my interviews, the interviewer said, "Your MCAT is low--very low." It's only a 27. The rest of my interview went pretty well I thought...My student interview went especially well. I was waitlisted, though. The 80k price tag is total cost of attendance--tuition is around 40k, and is for an MD program.
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FYI, the school in question is Meharry Medical College in Nashville.
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Yeah I figured based on the last post from the OP that it actually WAS an HBCU. Technically my point still stands - it's just that the total student population and the minority population is about the same 😛
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