Withdrawn from Harvard...sigh... Complicated situation...

[whothenathan]

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Hows it going folks. I need some serious advice from you all on my situation. And I don't want any sort of negativism in the name of giving realistic advice, cuz I already know I still have a chance to turn things around instead of the cutthroat end of the med school for me. And I don't want anybody saying 'Your chance is so slim if not close to none that you should just go for DO or even just forget about med school'. Honestly I think those ppl with that kind of advice or attitude either don't even know what they are talking about or just want to discourage me for the sake of discouragement. I want real advice telling me how I can get there instead of why I can't get there, okay?

So here's my story. Just like many other stories in the forum, I had too much fun in first two years of my college. It was mainly wasting my college life, philandering with girls. In school, I was known as 'Pimping Nate'. I'm not bragging... hah... I really regret.. anyways.. during my first two years, I did horribly in all my course work including prereqs for medical school. I've completed about 70 units of courses at Harvard. My sGPA is about 2.3 and my cGPA is 2.6. Calculus I failed once and I repeated and got C. First half
of ochem I failed twice and passed the third time. And the rest of the science C's. So in the year of 2008, I withdrew from school cuz I felt so miserable that I needed to get away from school.

So here's the thing. Since then, I've wondering and questioning and exploring myself and what I really want to do. I figured that I really do want to go to medical school still. I think I do have passion in medicine and
I do want to help people out. So recently I've came up with this idea myself that I need to fix things up, and I'm not quite sure if my idea is good or reasonable. I am in great need of your advice cuz my situation is really complicated.

My plan is that I am going to retake all the prereqs at a community college. Once I have retaken them all, I am going back to Harvard and get my bachelor's degree. Since my major is science anyways, retaking those prereqs for med school will really help me to rebuild foundation for upper div science courses. I barely gained any knowledge anyways in prereq courses, so I think it is better to retake 'em.

And then I think here's the part it might get tricky. So if I retake the prereqs at a community college, how would AMCAS calculate my sGPA? Would they just take all the grades of all coursework completed before the application and average the GPA? or would they just calculate the grades I've received from the school where I received my bachelor's degree? I don't know. Also I haven't done second half of physics and second half of my Bio and I am thinking about just having these classes taken at community college and transfer the units. But would doing this not be counted as prereqs completed when applying to med school, because they
were not taken at the school where I received a bachelor's degree?
I don't know... or is my plan just useless and waste of time?

yea... so thats my plan... so far. thank u all for reading my thread and giving me some advice. you guys are the best👍

 

[painmd87]

AMCAS will take all your grades and factor them in. 3 credit F in biochem and a 3 credit A in biochem means 6 credits @ 2.0.

AACOMAS will average it, so the aforementioned situation you'll end up with 3 credits @ 2.0.

On your "chances," you've got to give more information. Most people here will agree that you'll need some sort of medical and volunteering experiences. Shadowing, work, etc. Crushing the MCAT won't guarantee you anything.

Everyone screws up. Some claw back. It's rarely easy, even/especially at a top 10 school like Harvard. It's up to you to prove you can handle the workload, the exams, and the life of a student doctor.

 

[Schemp]

I think you're probably very aware of this, but just so I don't appear to say what I'm about to say without qualification, getting into medical school is going to take you a lot of work. Okay, that's out of the way.

You can do it. I wouldn't hold out much hope for getting into a top school, but I think getting into a US medical school is feasible for you.

Your plan looks pretty sound. One or two years at community college, then back to university for two years. Taking all of your prereqs at community college is perfectly acceptable. I'm not sure how you would go about getting back into Harvard undergrad, but if you think it's possible and have a plan to make it happen then more power to you. You certainly don't NEED to go back to Harvard though, any university will do, pretty much.

Besides doing well in your classes you're really just going to have to put in the time to show that you've changed and school/medicine is now your number one priority. That just takes time; you can't show that in a year.

Your cGPA and sGPA will never be good, you may even struggle getting it over a 3.0, but don't worry too much about that. It will hurt you, but if you are back in school for 3+ years averaging over a 3.7 then you've shown you're academically capable of performing well in medical school. The old stuff won't be completely ignored, but it will definitely not keep you from getting in somewhere.

It's a long road since you're basically starting from scratch, but if it's really what you want to do I wish you the best of luck. Work hard and you can make it happen.

 

[ShyRem]

AMCAS will take all your grades and factor them in. 3 credit F in biochem and a 3 credit A in biochem means 6 credits @ 2.0.

AACOMAS will average it, so the aforementioned situation you'll end up with 3 credits @ 2.0.

On your "chances," you've got to give more information. Most people here will agree that you'll need some sort of medical and volunteering experiences. Shadowing, work, etc. Crushing the MCAT won't guarantee you anything.

Everyone screws up. Some claw back. It's rarely easy, even/especially at a top 10 school like Harvard. It's up to you to prove you can handle the workload, the exams, and the life of a student doctor.

Incorrect. AACOMAS replaces grades, not averages them. AMCAS averages grades. So if the OP applies MD, he will get the 6 credits @ 2.0. If the OP applies DO, he will get 3 credits at 4.0 given the above hypothetical grade situation.

This is why so many folks have a much better AACOMAS GPA and why DO schools are "more forgiving" of poor old grades.

 

[painmd87]

Incorrect. AACOMAS replaces grades, not averages them. AMCAS averages grades. So if the OP applies MD, he will get the 6 credits @ 2.0. If the OP applies DO, he will get 3 credits at 4.0 given the above hypothetical grade situation.

This is why so many folks have a much better AACOMAS GPA and why DO schools are "more forgiving" of poor old grades.

You are correct. I'm not sure why I screwed that up. Thanks for pointing it out.

One of those 1 a.m. mistakes 😴😴

 

[whothenathan]

hey I really appreciate your effort to answer my questions. One thing that some sorta unclear to me ... is so...

Bsically AMCAS will include the grades
I've received in community college into calculating and averaging the cGPA and sGPA.. right?

also they would still regard the classes that have been taken at a community college as having had completed the prereqs... right...? um... lets say half of my prereqs were done at Harvard and the other half of prereqs were done at a community college... I would still be regarded as having completed all the prereqs needed for med school... correct?

 

[NTF]

hey I really appreciate your effort to answer my questions. One thing that some sorta unclear to me ... is so...

Bsically AMCAS will include the grades
I've received in community college into calculating and averaging the cGPA and sGPA.. right?

also they would still regard the classes that have been taken at a community college as having had completed the prereqs... right...? um... lets say half of my prereqs were done at Harvard and the other half of prereqs were done at a community college... I would still be regarded as having completed all the prereqs needed for med school... correct?

From the point of view of AMCAS there is no difference between CC courses and other ugrad courses.

As far as CC courses for prereqs that will vary school by school, though most will accept them just fine. Just make sure you call the schools you'd like to apply to to find out. And many schools if they have a no CC for prereq policy will waive it if you have corresponding upper level sci coursework.

As far as reforming your app. Just get A's (or as close to it as you can get) from here on out. Make an obvious demarcation line in your transcript from the "old" you and the "new-and-improved" you. Any academic missteps at this point given your past will delay your ability to get into medical school exponentially. If from here on out until you graduate your transcript is exemplary (I'm assuming your have 2 years left) will be enough for a lot of schools to forgive your prior poor performance (though probably not for elite schools). If you can get your GPA to above a 3.0, have all the other bells and whistles, and apply early and broadly, I don't see why you wouldn't stand a decent shot at getting in. But if this is what you really want, steel yourself for the possible reapp. There's always an element of uncertainty especially with an uneven app, so just prepare yourself mentally to not get discouraged, dust yourself off, and apply again.

Don't forget to build those ECs and cultivate the relationships to get great LORs.

PS If you are truly wise you won't let your vanity and misinformation keep you from making DO schools a part of your application process. Cuz honestly, that's all it is. Vanity.

 

[EdLongshanks]

...'Your chance is so slim if not close to none that you should just go for DO or even just forget about med school'.

It would be better if you weren't negative yourself when you tell others not to be negative. Some of us ASPIRE to be DO's - for example, me. And I don't have any black marks on my record.

Osteopathic training is not second-rate. Your statement implies this, and it is a insulting implication.

 

[faith2]

I wish you luck and I can not add to the advice. You are going to get in it is not difficult to get a seat. The best thing to do is surround yourself by positve people.

ACCEPTED UCF 2014!!!!!!!!
Go army!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stixman28]

It would be better if you weren't negative yourself when you tell others not to be negative. Some of us ASPIRE to be DO's - for example, me. And I don't have any black marks on my record.

Osteopathic training is not second-rate. Your statement implies this, and it is a insulting implication.

I have a friend who went to harvard and graduated with a 3.01. he then did 2 more years in a post bac, all 4.0, and rocked the mcat, 37. He got into several ivy's for med.

SO, with 2 more years, if you can pull your gpa up to 3.0 by the time you graduate, and then possibly do a little extra schooling, a couple of post bac classes, keeping in mind that folks love that harvard name, you might get into a top 20 just fine.

 

[bedrock]

I have a friend who went to harvard and graduated with a 3.01. he then did 2 more years in a post bac, all 4.0, and rocked the mcat, 37. He got into several ivy's for med.

big difference between that 3.01 and 2.3 sGPA of the OP particularly with several failed classes. Let's be a little realistic here. Getting into a US med school is doable if he buckles down from here on out, getting into top 10/ivy is very unlikely.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I have a friend who went to harvard and graduated with a 3.01. he then did 2 more years in a post bac, all 4.0, and rocked the mcat, 37. He got into several ivy's for med.

SO, with 2 more years, if you can pull your gpa up to 3.0 by the time you graduate, and then possibly do a little extra schooling, a couple of post bac classes, keeping in mind that folks love that harvard name, you might get into a top 20 just fine.

From what I have read here, and personal conversations with doctors have confirmed, it is not where you go to school, but where you do your residency that matters. Apparently, the people who hire residents are not as bedazzled by ivy league names as the average population. Browsing through the residents, I see DO's in highly competitive positions.

My understanding is that schools are not rated on quality of medical education, but rather on research dollars gained. If a student is not planning on going into research, then he can get a quality medical education and a quality residency spot in any of the 50 states.

Therefore, a non-research bound student who is determined to get into that "top 10/20" med schools may not be doing so as a result of quality of education, but rather for bragging rights to non-medical folks. That's what another poster called "vanity" and is probably a mistake.

 

[ucsfstudents]

I don't have anything else to add, except that you should not lose hope. Many people struggle in college for one reason or another. If you've truly changed your ways, it will show.

 

[whothenathan]

It would be better if you weren't negative yourself when you tell others not to be negative. Some of us ASPIRE to be DO's - for example, me. And I don't have any black marks on my record.

Osteopathic training is not second-rate. Your statement implies this, and it is a insulting implication.

Thats not what I implied. I am sorry if you felt insulted. I was saying that cuz that was the trend of advices given to those of ppl who kinda did poorly academic school. I wasn't really intending to give you that nuance that osteopathic is second rate. My apologies...

 

[EdLongshanks]

Thats not what I implied. I am sorry if you felt insulted. I was saying that cuz that was the trend of advices given to those of ppl who kinda did poorly academic school. I wasn't really intending to give you that nuance that osteopathic is second rate. My apologies...

Accepted, and sorry for inferring what you did not imply. I know what you man... I got the same phrase in my first thread - which eventually had to be shut down because it got so hostile.

"Man, your too OLD. A REAL medical school wouldn't take you. You'll have to go DO."

I was annoyed because my academic record would not disallow me from interviewing at any school, so I have as good of a chance as anyone, and yet I still got the "You'll have to go DO" speech. It's an insulting reaction, not only to the applicant, but to the osteopathic community. For some posters on SDN it appears to be a knee-jerk reaction.

This is different from those who might suggest to you that the path to a DO is much shorter for you than the MD path. In your case, it is because of the grade replacement policy. If you had a dozen D's or F's, then you could replace those with A's and see your GPA jump a point and half or more in one year. An equivalent jump for the MD path would take a considerably longer time. That's not saying the same thing as "You'll be a failure trying to be an MD you might as well accept your failure and be a DO or go the caribbean."

I understand you making a pre-emptive strike against the failure-predictos.

 

[7starmantis]

OP, good advice in the thread so far. I agree with it, just work hard and show a huge difference between the "old" you and the "new" you. Community college courses are fine, just show you can get good grades both there and at the 4-year.

Incorrect. AACOMAS replaces grades, not averages them. AMCAS averages grades. So if the OP applies MD, he will get the 6 credits @ 2.0. If the OP applies DO, he will get 3 credits at 4.0 given the above hypothetical grade situation.

This is why so many folks have a much better AACOMAS GPA and why DO schools are "more forgiving" of poor old grades.

Thanks for clarifying, I was always curious when I heard that statement on here. TCOM does it differently and was my only exposure to DO schools, so I was confused a bit.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I have to say, that I too was offended with your comment about DOs, as there are quite a few of us on here that for various reasons would like to attend DO schools (even with high stats).

That aside, in your case to have a shot at an MD you need a high MCAT. A high MCAT can make up for a lot. Make sure to get a 30+ and your GPA won't matter as much.

Also, while taking a few classes at a community college is ok, try to take the majority at a 4 year college (otherwise you are going to have to justify this choice at every interview you go to, so be ready).

It would be better if you weren't negative yourself when you tell others not to be negative. Some of us ASPIRE to be DO's - for example, me. And I don't have any black marks on my record.

Osteopathic training is not second-rate. Your statement implies this, and it is a insulting implication.

 

[njbmd]

I have to say, that I too was offended with your comment about DOs, as there are quite a few of us on here that for various reasons would like to attend DO schools (even with high stats).

That aside, in your case to have a shot at an MD you need a high MCAT. A high MCAT can make up for a lot. Make sure to get a 30+ and your GPA won't matter as much.
Also, while taking a few classes at a community college is ok, try to take the majority at a 4 year college (otherwise you are going to have to justify this choice at every interview you go to, so be ready).

Definitely not true as there are plenty of people out there with no acceptances, high 30s MCAT scores and below average uGPAs. Allopathic schools want to see both MCAT & uGPA above average for their matriculants. The average now for all allopathic schools is 31 MCAT AND uGPA of 3.7. MCAT does not offset a poor uGPA. Extracurricular activities do not offset a poor MCAT score or uGPA. In short, it takes a complete application. Long gone are the days (because of heavy grade inflation) that one could offset uGPA with MCAT.

If the OP is dead set on allopathic, as others have mentioned, it's going to take some time to get that uGPA into competitive range regardless of MCAT score. The uGPA matters very much regardless of MCAT.

The manner in which osteopathic schools calculate uGPA is more helpful to a person who needs to do grade "damage-control" but make no mistake, osteopathic medical schools are not a "chip shot" these days either.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I actually agree with you. I guess I should have made my point a little more clearly (hard in the middle of the night).
Based on success stories I have read on here the applicant has to do three things right:
- Reasonably high MCAT. A low MCAT and the applicant will be shut out of allo schools (in combination with the GPA).
- Boost GPA (let's be a bit realistic, this applicant is applying with a 3.0 at best, no matter what at this point.... assuming allo schools). However, a great post-bac GPA will help.
- Interesting story (someone posted about how they had a sub-3.0 GPA (4.0 post-bac), 30 or so MCAT and was a fighter pilot in the military for ten years).

Definitely not true as there are plenty of people out there with no acceptances, high 30s MCAT scores and below average uGPAs. Allopathic schools want to see both MCAT & uGPA above average for their matriculants. The average now for all allopathic schools is 31 MCAT AND uGPA of 3.7. MCAT does not offset a poor uGPA. Extracurricular activities do not offset a poor MCAT score or uGPA. In short, it takes a complete application. Long gone are the days (because of heavy grade inflation) that one could offset uGPA with MCAT.

 

[dotdash]

I raise the possibility that this is a troll. Or maybe just fudging the details to protect the innocent?

 

[EdLongshanks]

I raise the possibility that this is a troll. Or maybe just fudging the details to protect the innocent?

Or maybe someone who is involved in online degrees in some sort of money making compacity?

 

[whothenathan]

I have to say, that I too was offended with your comment about DOs, as there are quite a few of us on here that for various reasons would like to attend DO schools (even with high stats).

That aside, in your case to have a shot at an MD you need a high MCAT. A high MCAT can make up for a lot. Make sure to get a 30+ and your GPA won't matter as much.

Also, while taking a few classes at a community college is ok, try to take the majority at a 4 year college (otherwise you are going to have to justify this choice at every interview you go to, so be ready).

Like I explained above, I did not really intend to discredit the value of DO schools. That I can assure you. But as I've been reading quite many number of threads under 'nontraditional forum', the trend of advices or answers given to those of ppl who did poorly in their first two years of university especially on their prereqs, was somewhat very provocative, some ppl saying to just forget about Allo schools or saying they have a little chance to get into if it's DO because they are more lenient on those who did poorly in the past. Well, I know that there is nothing wrong with going to DO schools. But I was very offended by those ppl's comments cuz I do know that there are ppl who actually turned things around and made it into both allo and osteo path. I didn't like how some of those ppl shut you down. yea... so... don't be offended, my friend. I am sorry if u were though. take care.

 

[MSmentor018]

Definitely not true as there are plenty of people out there with no acceptances, high 30s MCAT scores and below average uGPAs. Allopathic schools want to see both MCAT & uGPA above average for their matriculants. The average now for all allopathic schools is 31 MCAT AND uGPA of 3.7. MCAT does not offset a poor uGPA. Extracurricular activities do not offset a poor MCAT score or uGPA. In short, it takes a complete application. Long gone are the days (because of heavy grade inflation) that one could offset uGPA with MCAT.

If the OP is dead set on allopathic, as others have mentioned, it's going to take some time to get that uGPA into competitive range regardless of MCAT score. The uGPA matters very much regardless of MCAT.

The manner in which osteopathic schools calculate uGPA is more helpful to a person who needs to do grade "damage-control" but make no mistake, osteopathic medical schools are not a "chip shot" these days either.

yep, it's the whole package that does it. although you may have a better chance at some of the newer schools since they're unproven and students tend to stay away from them. otherwise, it's getting tough all over....good luck