work hard versus brains

[jesse14]

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I've just got a question that i would really like to see what people think.

would you say that people who might not be of a genious status, but really work hard be able to achieve grades that are on par with these academicaly inclined individuals? Or, does brains beet working hard every day of the week? I myself am not the smartest stydnet in the wolrd, but i do work extremely hard to do my best. I have several friends who don't study nearly as much as me, but do just as well and often better. I'm trying to keep my spirts hight but its starting to get very discouraging.

Thanks

 

[Paws]

Well, I don't know what to tell you. I am not so smart and so I work really, really hard - and I just do ok. I wish I could say I am naturally really bright, and I easily do well in med school, but I seem to keep getting kicked all over the place. I feel like a really dumbo sometimes, and yet I look at people in my class who are getting like, 96 on the exams and I think: they're really not very smart at all, and they can hardly tell you anything other than what they just memorized. How is it that they are the 'smart' ones now?

What does it mean to be 'smart' anyway? I think the laid back guy in the back row who reads the NY Times, and keeps up with politics and the environment, he's a pretty 'smart' guy and he could talk to anyone! Your grandmother or your two year old, and come out like a hero.

I don't have the answer, but it bugs me too. I try and mostly hang with my out of med school friends who do make me feel like a well rounded and fairly intelligent person. This is just a few short years together, and only two crammed in a class together. When we are out working it will all be so different. 😳

 

[futuredo32]

I've just got a question that i would really like to see what people think.

would you say that people who might not be of a genious status, but really work hard be able to achieve grades that are on par with these academicaly inclined individuals? Or, does brains beet working hard every day of the week? I myself am not the smartest stydnet in the wolrd, but i do work extremely hard to do my best. I have several friends who don't study nearly as much as me, but do just as well and often better. I'm trying to keep my spirts hight but its starting to get very discouraging.

Thanks

Working hard will definitely be an asset in the many clinical years ahead of you! Some (but definitely not all) of the "smart" students are just really good at taking tests.

 

[size_tens]

I think it's something of a secret that you don't really need to be that smart to do well in med school or be a good doc. During the preclinical years you just need to be able to memorize a large amount of information. In my opinion just being able to memorize lots of stuff says little about your overall intelligence.

 

[Samoa]

There are a whole host of skills that go into being a good doctor, and the people who do well in the preclinical years have only proven their ability in one or two of those areas: specifically, speed at absorbing new information and ability to focus for long periods of time. Other skills that are necessary include listening and communicating one-on-one, impromptu speaking in front of small groups, attention to detail, effective time management, adequate self-knowledge so that you know when you need assistance, the ability to work effectively with people of all education levels and backgrounds, and the ability to handle criticism from multiple sources, whether valid or not, with maturity and composure. And a strong work ethic.

Class standings will rearrange themselves somewhat as these other factors come into play. Most people are strong in a few areas, and weaker in others, but because you spend two whole years using just a very small set of skills, it's easy to get discouraged if those happen to be where you're weakest.

 

[thackl]

There are a whole host of skills that go into being a good doctor, and the people who do well in the preclinical years have only proven their ability in one or two of those areas: specifically, speed at absorbing new information and ability to focus for long periods of time. Other skills that are necessary include listening and communicating one-on-one, impromptu speaking in front of small groups, attention to detail, effective time management, adequate self-knowledge so that you know when you need assistance, the ability to work effectively with people of all education levels and backgrounds, and the ability to handle criticism from multiple sources, whether valid or not, with maturity and composure. And a strong work ethic.

Class standings will rearrange themselves somewhat as these other factors come into play. Most people are strong in a few areas, and weaker in others, but because you spend two whole years using just a very small set of skills, it's easy to get discouraged if those happen to be where you're weakest.

This sounds about right. In general though, I think hard work will take you further in medicine. Unfortunately, many in this field mistake their hard work and ability to memorize as real genious 🙄

 

[lil pook]

med school is about 2 things:

1) gotta have a GREAT memory. call it photographic or whatever you want -but if you have this, you are good to go.

2) gotta bust your a$$ and have plenty of stamina. work hard, put in the hours of mind numbing memorization and you should do fine.

notice nowhere in the above is 'smarts' mentioned. i have come to realize that doing well in medschool has very little to do with intelligence and more to do with just memorizing and regurgitating.

OP- don't get discouraged...unless you equate intelligence with mindless memorization.

 

[orientedtoself]

would you say that people who might not be of a genious status,

genius

Or, does brains beet working hard every day of the week?

you have a vegetable for your noggin?

I myself am not the smartest stydnet in the wolrd,

I didn't think so.

I'm trying to keep my spirts hight but its starting to get very discouraging.

Please, learn how to spell before applying to medical school.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

genius


you have a vegetable for your noggin?


I didn't think so.


Please, learn how to spell before applying to medical school.

hah. nice

 

[aphistis]

genius


you have a vegetable for your noggin?


I didn't think so.


Please, learn how to spell before applying to medical school.

I bet you feel just loads better about yourself now.

I'd ask you to spell-check this post for me, but I don't want to be held responsible for detracting from a memorizeathon. 😉

 

[cfdavid]

genius


you have a vegetable for your noggin?


I didn't think so.


Please, learn how to spell before applying to medical school.

you're a very serious loser.

hhmm. let me guess. YOUR that guy that always thought he was really "smart" until he learned that in the real world it takes a whole lot more than whatever it is that you do have....

"orientedtoself"

 

[mojojojo]

I often feel this way, that there are people who study much less and do better than me. However, I have found that in clinical experiences, these are often the same folks who seem completely unable to speak to a patient.

So, it's really a balance. I'm finding it's important to worry less about how others do and worry more about doing well yourself.

 

[lil pook]

stop looking around at other people and worry about yourself only.

besides, med school is full of people who take themselves way to seriously and are legends in their very own minds

just keep it real and always try to relate to your patients on their level

 

[Hurricane]

Flame away, but I admit I also noticed the spelling mistakes, and thought it was particularly ironic that there were so many of them in a post about the importance of intelligence.

I often feel this way, that there are people who study much less and do better than me. However, I have found that in clinical experiences, these are often the same folks who seem completely unable to speak to a patient.

What an over-generalization! I can think of so many examples that contradict your observation. Whether you intended it or not, your statement comes off as a jealous put-down of those who perform better than you academically.

So, it's really a balance. I'm finding it's important to worry less about how others do and worry more about doing well yourself.

Now that is good advice!

 

[Callogician]

Several of you are guilty of what is known in psychology as the fundamental attribution error. The fundamental attribution error is attributing one's own failures to circumstance and the failures of others to intrinsic characteristics. This is a natural human error, and its reversal is associated with major depression.

The following is an excellent example:

I often feel this way, that there are people who study much less and do better than me. However, I have found that in clinical experiences, these are often the same folks who seem completely unable to speak to a patient.

Here, Mojo sees himself as a person with natural talent in his ability to deal with patients. When he (sexually ambiguous pronoun) does poorly on a test, he attributes this to the circumstance-a method of examination which measures trivial and superficial test taking ability without revealing his true abilities as a potential physician. Now, I'm sure that Mojo is stand-up fellow with many admirable traits, but I am still inclined to accuse him of exaggerating his strengths and downplaying his weaknesses.

Remember, medical students (and humans in general) are a heterogeneous group with diverse talents, all of which will potentially serve the noble cause of health care in some way. To presume that one's own characteristics are essential and supreme is naive and megalomaniacal.

My opinion on the general topic?

I think that the very association of the terms "medical school" and "genius" is absurd. Medical school requires very little intelligence, and I have become unambiguously dumber during my time as a student. To me, medical school is about putting in the time and effort to internalize a great deal of practical knowledge. It is about simplifying, compartmentalizing, and repeating until drawing the popliteal fossa from scratch is like a liberal saying "Bush is a *****" - a figurative monosynaptic reflex.

 

[cfdavid]

Several of you are guilty of what is known in psychology as the fundamental attribution error. The fundamental attribution error is attributing one's own failures to circumstance and the failures of others to intrinsic characteristics. This is a natural human error, and its reversal is associated with major depression.

The following is an excellent example:



Here, Mojo sees himself as a person with natural talent in his ability to deal with patients. When he (sexually ambiguous pronoun) does poorly on a test, he attributes this to the circumstance-a method of examination which measures trivial and superficial test taking ability without revealing his true abilities as a potential physician. Now, I'm sure that Mojo is stand-up fellow with many admirable traits, but I am still inclined to accuse him of exaggerating his strengths and downplaying his weaknesses.

Remember, medical students (and humans in general) are a heterogeneous group with diverse talents, all of which will potentially serve the noble cause of health care in some way. To presume that one's own characteristics are essential and supreme is naive and megalomaniacal.

That's inferring quite a bit about someone from what was a few sentence comment that he/she probably made in less than 1 minute.

You see, the great thing about this forum is that anyone that has enough time on their hands can spend as much as they want in editing their spelling errors, taking an absurd amount of time trying to look clever, and perhaps even plagiarizing some obscure physchology text.....

Hey, just like that blonde dude at the bar in Good Will Hunting!!

 

[vtrain]

Several of you are guilty of what is known in psychology as the fundamental attribution error. The fundamental attribution error is attributing one's own failures to circumstance and the failures of others to intrinsic characteristics. This is a natural human error, and its reversal is associated with major depression.

The following is an excellent example:



Here, Mojo sees himself as a person with natural talent in his ability to deal with patients. When he (sexually ambiguous pronoun) does poorly on a test, he attributes this to the circumstance-a method of examination which measures trivial and superficial test taking ability without revealing his true abilities as a potential physician. Now, I'm sure that Mojo is stand-up fellow with many admirable traits, but I am still inclined to accuse him of exaggerating his strengths and downplaying his weaknesses.

Remember, medical students (and humans in general) are a heterogeneous group with diverse talents, all of which will potentially serve the noble cause of health care in some way. To presume that one's own characteristics are essential and supreme is naive and megalomaniacal.

My opinion on the general topic?

I think that the very association of the terms "medical school" and "genius" is absurd. Medical school requires very little intelligence, and I have become unambiguously dumber during my time as a student. To me, medical school is about putting in the time and effort to internalize a great deal of practical knowledge. It is about simplifying, compartmentalizing, and repeating until drawing the popliteal fossa from scratch is like a liberal saying "Bush is a *****" - a figurative monosynaptic reflex.

Agreed. I definitely feel much less intelligent than when I first started med school. I tend to equate intelligence to speaking ability and articulating thoughts on a broad range of topics. Since starting me school, my conversation ability has plummeted - I use to keep up with world events, sports, etc and now it seems like all I can think of these days are medically related topics. It's really pathetic.

 

[werd]

i think it's maybe possible to be at the top of a class by bruit force alone (extreme amounts of studying), although i wouldn't recommend it, it'll burn you out quick. i think there comes a time in medical school (2nd year) where everyone is studying just below their burnout levels... any more would affect your health or sanity. people that learn quickly are able to master more of the material before reaching their threshold, and so probably gain an advantage when everyone's backs are at the wall. during first year, i think it's possible to master pretty much everything without crash/burning, so less than brilliant people with a lot of work ethic can be at the very top. just my 1/50th of a dollar...

 

[crys20]

yeah i would definately say medicine is not full of geniuses at all but full of hard workers. there are definately career tracks that require much higher intelligence than medicine i would say...

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

you like speaking? go into politics or journalism.

i love how people always hope the top pre-clinical students will crash and burn in clinicals. But the truth is probably that these top students have good study skills and will still excel in clinicals. Talking to patients is overrated. Healing patients is not. Anyone can say "Hi Mr. smith. how are you feeling today? What seems to be the problem?"

 

[Hurricane]

Agreed. I definitely feel much less intelligent than when I first started med school. I tend to equate intelligence to speaking ability and articulating thoughts on a broad range of topics. Since starting me school, my conversation ability has plummeted - I use to keep up with world events, sports, etc and now it seems like all I can think of these days are medically related topics. It's really pathetic.

I don't think I've become "less intelligent" during medical school, but by necessity I've had to become more single-minded. And for the reasons you stated above, at times I find it intellectually stagnating in that regard. Especially the preclinical years.

Back to the "hard work vs brains" topic... I am lucky in that I don't have to study as hard as some of my classmates. Frankly, I think I'd go nuts if I studied as much as some people do, but they manage, so hats off to them. So although we do about the same academically, I have more time to read non-medical things, keep up with politics, talk to my non-medschool friends about non-medschool things, etc. So in that regard, brains have an advantage over hard work, if you want to have an identity other than "medical student."

 

[Samoa]

you like speaking? go into politics or journalism.

i love how people always hope the top pre-clinical students will crash and burn in clinicals. But the truth is probably that these top students have good study skills and will still excel in clinicals. Talking to patients is overrated. Healing patients is not. Anyone can say "Hi Mr. smith. how are you feeling today? What seems to be the problem?"

...says the M2.

 

[ucsb101]

med school is about 2 things:

1) gotta have a GREAT memory. call it photographic or whatever you want -but if you have this, you are good to go.

2) gotta bust your a$$ and have plenty of stamina. work hard, put in the hours of mind numbing memorization and you should do fine.

notice nowhere in the above is 'smarts' mentioned. i have come to realize that doing well in medschool has very little to do with intelligence and more to do with just memorizing and regurgitating.

OP- don't get discouraged...unless you equate intelligence with mindless memorization.

see but the thing is that a great memory comes with being smart. And its not only the memory, but it is the ability to take mass amount of info and then organize it in ur head. Being "smart" also plays a huge role in this. Basically I do not consider myslef to be one of the smarter people in my class but I do see myslef being one of the most hard working. With this i pull about a B B+ average. Damn As are so freakin hard to get in med school 😡 😡

 

[71263]

If I may quote Rock Lee, for all the anime fans out there:

"A dropout will defeat a genius with hard work"

Honestly, anyone who tells you they arent studying and getting good grades is full of ****. It doesnt matter if they tell you they didnt study, or if you never ever see them studying. Theyre getting it done somehow, and its working.

Hard work is the only way to survive in med school. Period. Either youre working your ass off now, or youve done some of the work before, have experience, and dont have to do as much now. Either way, everyone puts the time in at some point.

 

[Samoa]

Hard work is the only way to survive in med school. Period. Either youre working your ass off now, or youve done some of the work before, have experience, and dont have to do as much now. Either way, everyone puts the time in at some point.

Exactly. I worked my butt off the last couple years of pharmacy school, and then continued to study and learn on the job for the next 6, before I finally got into med school. And after two frustrating years of pre-clinical studying, where my grades in no way matched my understanding of the material, it's all finally coming together this year. I'm really enjoying third year, and have consistently been carrying the same number or more patients as every other student on my team, and it still takes me less time in the morning to get everything done, AND formulate my own plan, when most of the other students get theirs from the intern after just collecting patient data. Really, I do it because I learn so much more that way, but I have to confess that I occasionally take a little bit of perverse pleasure in making the gunner students work their @sses off to look better than me.

Although usually I try to help them look good too...the only time I don't is if they're actively trying to make me look bad. Even then I still usually cut them a break, because I know the residents are smart enough to see their behavior for what it is, and it just makes the whole team look bad. My goal for every rotation is for the residents to say at some point, "we have a great group of students this month!"

 

[popbirch]

I think the two sides can completely compensate for a lack in the other. I have never had to work hard to get good grades, most things come very easy to me, memorization included so it didn't take much effort to be successful academically (except english, I don't get grammar). I have a friend that does equally well on most subjects but works tremendously hard, he tapes himself reading all his notes and then listens to it as he walks around. I swear he never stops studying and this is undergrad, but his grades are great. I worry about him making it as a med student if this work load is overwhelming then I hope he can adjust to more in med school. I have found also that I pick things up quickly but not necessarily completely, but it is always good enough to do well on exams. I can learn the amino acids, structures included, in 20 minutes but there is one or two (the aromatics) that didn't stick.

 

[trotter]

I would say that the students who are the most successful in medical school are those who have a solid blend of purely academic skills and social skills. You have to be a good test taker with a strong fund of knowledge to consistently do well on shelf exams and the steps, but you also have to work well with all types of people to excel in clinical rotations. No matter how good your shelf scores are, if you're not moderately personable you won't honor all of your clinical evaluations and you won't honor the clerkship (at least that's how it is at my school).

Although I feel that the word "genius" is often grossly misunderstood and misrepresented(and thus I won't use it purely to describe someone who is a good med student), I do think that you have to be a well rounded and considerably bright individual to perform well in all of the aspects of the pre-clinical and clinical portions of med school.

And for the OP, it seems to me that deficits in test taking skills and academics can be significantly compensated for with hard work and determination. However, it is much more difficult to compensate for a lack of social skills, humility or respect for others once you begin your clinicals. Academically bright students who lack these characteristics will struggle during 3rd/4th years in spite of their intellectual aptitude.

 

[tupac_don]

stop looking around at other people and worry about yourself only.

besides, med school is full of people who take themselves way to seriously and are legends in their very own minds

just keep it real and always try to relate to your patients on their level

They are legends in their own minds, I like that one

I am just a living legend though

 

[cfdavid]

I gotta buddy who's a "legend in his own mind". lol

 

[driedcaribou]

That's inferring quite a bit about someone from what was a few sentence comment that he/she probably made in less than 1 minute.

You see, the great thing about this forum is that anyone that has enough time on their hands can spend as much as they want in editing their spelling errors, taking an absurd amount of time trying to look clever, and perhaps even plagiarizing some obscure physchology text.....

Hey, just like that blonde dude at the bar in Good Will Hunting!!

A lot can be inferred from a comment made in less than 1 minute.
As a doctor, you will be judging people all the time based on information obtained in a short amount of time.

Even worse is your judgement that follows your accusation which makes you a hypocrite or at least your statement hypocritcal.

You infer that for someone to have a post that is free from spelling errors would take 'as much time as [he/she] want', that it would take an 'absurd amount of time trying to look clever' and have to 'plagariz[e]' a textbook in order to have a important information.

Callogician has presented a good argument and you posted nothing to refute any of his/her points (I am too lazy to check the sex of the poster and I'm trying to type this in a short amount of time).

Just because someone makes a judgement on another user doesn't necessarily mean it's negative.


Elapsed time of typing post including this sentence '71 seconds'.

 

[cfdavid]

A lot can be inferred from a comment made in less than 1 minute.
As a doctor, you will be judging people all the time based on information obtained in a short amount of time.

Even worse is your judgement that follows your accusation which makes you a hypocrite or at least your statement hypocritcal.

You infer that for someone to have a post that is free from spelling errors would take 'as much time as [he/she] want', that it would take an 'absurd amount of time trying to look clever' and have to 'plagariz[e]' a textbook in order to have a important information.

Callogician has presented a good argument and you posted nothing to refute any of his/her points (I am too lazy to check the sex of the poster and I'm trying to type this in a short amount of time).

Just because someone makes a judgement on another user doesn't necessarily mean it's negative.


Elapsed time of typing post including this sentence '71 seconds'.

Mojojojo made a TWO SENTENCE comment based on his/her own experience. And all of the sudden Callogician has her entire psychological profile pegged?? How the hell does Callogician know how Mojojojo "sees him/herself"? He then goes on to suggest how Mojojojo deals with failing a test! All that from two sentences. Give me a break. That's totally irresponsible. And for YOU to justify that from a clinical perspective is ludicrous.

Perhaps I wouldn't have come across so strong had Callogician made more of a general arguement. But, he didn't. In his "excellent example", he specifically referenced Mojojojo, and then went on to make irresponsible speculations as to how Mojojojo sees him/herself, and how he/she would react to doing poorly on an exam! lol

 

[gschl1234]

I think it's something of a secret that you don't really need to be that smart to do well in med school or be a good doc. During the preclinical years you just need to be able to memorize a large amount of information. In my opinion just being able to memorize lots of stuff says little about your overall intelligence.

As someone who's not so great at memorizing large amounts of information, I'm in awe and a bit envious of those who can. There are many ways of defining intelligence. Being really efficient with laying down memory can argualby be a form of intelligence.

 

[driedcaribou]

Mojojojo made a TWO SENTENCE comment based on his/her own experience. And all of the sudden Callogician has her entire psychological profile pegged?? How the hell does Callogician know how Mojojojo "sees him/herself"? He then goes on to suggest how Mojojojo deals with failing a test! All that from two sentences. Give me a break. That's totally irresponsible. And for YOU to justify that from a clinical perspective is ludicrous.

Perhaps I wouldn't have come across so strong had Callogician made more of a general arguement. But, he didn't. In his "excellent example", he specifically referenced Mojojojo, and then went on to make irresponsible speculations as to how Mojojojo sees him/herself, and how he/she would react to doing poorly on an exam! lol

I'm not saying Callogician has an accurate portrayal of Mojojojo's 'entire psychological profile'. I'm saying Callogician can infer and give a reason why someone would think a certain way.

Mojojojo is him/herself judging others by saying they can study but cannot speak to patients. However, you accept this observation as fact because you make no objection to it but rather Callogician's long remark that you disagree with.

You've come off very strong and emotional for someone who has made an evaluation with no intent to insult another user. There is no argument but the one you've created.

I don't see how your use of capital letters is supposed to discredit Callogician's statement or appraisal other than an appeal to emotion.
You're assuming that anyone who reads what you wrote is automatically agreeing with you.

Then you, very emotionally, say it is 'ludicrious' to me to apply it to a clinical example without actually giving a reason why my analogy is false.

A patient comes into the emergency department, unconscious, has ragged clothing, very dirty appearance and smells of alcohol. You can assume he's alcoholic because the probability of that is high. But there could be a chance that he was cleaning his garage, wearing some old clothes, fell and happened to knock his whole supply of vodka and wine down which subsequently spilled all over him.
Regardless, you're going to make a judgement based on your limited amount of information. You can only do what you can with the information at hand.

You might not be right but it sure is better than the haphazard use of exclamation marks, poor punctuation and typos.

What I find is 'ludicrious' is that you use adjectives in your arguments to make your point stronger.

You would make an excellent salesman/woman or politician.

 

[odrade1]

Mojojojo made a TWO SENTENCE comment based on his/her own experience. And all of the sudden Callogician has her entire psychological profile pegged?? How the hell does Callogician know how Mojojojo "sees him/herself"? He then goes on to suggest how Mojojojo deals with failing a test! All that from two sentences. Give me a break. That's totally irresponsible. And for YOU to justify that from a clinical perspective is ludicrous.

Perhaps I wouldn't have come across so strong had Callogician made more of a general arguement. But, he didn't. In his "excellent example", he specifically referenced Mojojojo, and then went on to make irresponsible speculations as to how Mojojojo sees him/herself, and how he/she would react to doing poorly on an exam! lol

Cfdavid,

Please consider the following when reading the posts of others:

An attribution error is an attribution error is an attribution error. It is possible to spot an attribution error from just a few lines of text.

When one provides an example of an attribution error from a particular thread, the example ought to actually come from the thread in question. Hence the quoting of another's post by Callogician.

Callogician made reasonable inferences about Mojojojo, given the context of the (broader) discussion and Mojojojo's response.

Callogician did not assert that he had Mojojojo's complete psychological history/profile.

Finally: Don't confuse a critique of an argument for a personal attack.

Now here is what a personal attack would look like:

I bet you failed your philosophy classes, didn't you? To confuse a polite critique of an argument for a personal attack reflects all the intellectual maturity of your average middle-schooler. It is my sincere hope that you will never be in a position to--as a professional--evaluate the intellectual work of others.

Cheers!

 

[sambone]

I've just got a question that i would really like to see what people think.

would you say that people who might not be of a genious status, but really work hard be able to achieve grades that are on par with these academicaly inclined individuals? Or, does brains beet working hard every day of the week? I myself am not the smartest stydnet in the wolrd, but i do work extremely hard to do my best. I have several friends who don't study nearly as much as me, but do just as well and often better. I'm trying to keep my spirts hight but its starting to get very discouraging.

Thanks

Your friends may not be that much smarter - they might just understand how to be more effective.

Think about it: are you really studying those long hours? Have you tried studying less? I know it sounds scary, but if you're like me, I wasn't actually studying long hours so much as staring into space with a text in front of me, feeling miserable. Once I cut it down to 1-2 focused hours a night with some more on the weekend, my life, grades, and focus improved tremendously...

 

[cfdavid]

I'm not saying Callogician has an accurate portrayal of Mojojojo's 'entire psychological profile'. I'm saying Callogician can infer and give a reason why someone would think a certain way.

Mojojojo is him/herself judging others by saying they can study but cannot speak to patients. However, you accept this observation as fact because you make no objection to it but rather Callogician's long remark that you disagree with.

You've come off very strong and emotional for someone who has made an evaluation with no intent to insult another user. There is no argument but the one you've created.

I don't see how your use of capital letters is supposed to discredit Callogician's statement or appraisal other than an appeal to emotion.
You're assuming that anyone who reads what you wrote is automatically agreeing with you.

Then you, very emotionally, say it is 'ludicrious' to me to apply it to a clinical example without actually giving a reason why my analogy is false.

A patient comes into the emergency department, unconscious, has ragged clothing, very dirty appearance and smells of alcohol. You can assume he's alcoholic because the probability of that is high. But there could be a chance that he was cleaning his garage, wearing some old clothes, fell and happened to knock his whole supply of vodka and wine down which subsequently spilled all over him.
Regardless, you're going to make a judgement based on your limited amount of information. You can only do what you can with the information at hand.

You might not be right but it sure is better than the haphazard use of exclamation marks, poor punctuation and typos.

What I find is 'ludicrious' is that you use adjectives in your arguments to make your point stronger.

You would make an excellent salesman/woman or politician.

I really don't feel like arguing this "point" anymore. But, when you make attempts to insult people based on "grammatical errors" and "typos", try to at least make sure they are in fact really typos. You quote 'ludicrious' as if that's the way I actually spelled it. But, please double check next time so as not to make a fool of yourself. And no, I didn't go back and edit my post.

Now, I'll leave you to eat your caribu jerky, as you surely do given your name.(nothing like speculation, you know?)

 

[driedcaribou]

I really don't feel like arguing this "point" anymore. But, when you make attempts to insult people based on "grammatical errors" and "typos", try to at least make sure they are in fact really typos. You quote 'ludicrious' as if that's the way I actually spelled it. But, please double check next time so as not to make a fool of yourself. And no, I didn't go back and edit my post.

Now, I'll leave you to eat your caribu jerky, as you surely do given your name.(nothing like speculation, you know?)

No, that was my joke to detract from your spelling of 'arguement' which I thought was funny. Obviously lost on you because you were really too emotionally involved to put forth some actual points.
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Edit: But seriously dude, I just made a typo myself when I was quoting you. I wasn't trying to insult you based on grammatical errors... but you thought I was.

 

[Kazema]

A lot of way too fancy language...

Am I the only one who, when reading any post written by Callogician, immediately think of the word, "Tool"?

 

[cfdavid]

No, that was my joke to detract from your spelling of 'arguement' which I thought was funny. Obviously lost on you because you were really too emotionally involved to put forth some actual points.
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Edit: But seriously dude, I just made a typo myself when I was quoting you. I wasn't trying to insult you based on grammatical errors... but you thought I was.

oops on the "arguement".

also, i'm not sure what the issue is w/r/t using bold and exclamation points. to me, it's the grammatical equivalent of voice inflection..... however, it doesn't mean somone's overly emotional....

as far as putting forth an argument (see, i can spell) or debate is concerned, it's pretty difficult doing that online. especially one that's impossible to win. the 'argument' is too subjective, and based soley on ones personal opinion. it's not like i can pull facts or references to state my case.

my case was simply that i think that the two, specific, sentences mentioned by mojojojo do not warrant any legitimate insight on, specifically, his/her means of viewing test taking or assuming he/she is a superior clinician....
my stance was never that one can't obtain insightfull information in many cases, with limited information. that's obvious.

 

[eklope2000]

you like speaking? go into politics or journalism.

i love how people always hope the top pre-clinical students will crash and burn in clinicals. But the truth is probably that these top students have good study skills and will still excel in clinicals. Talking to patients is overrated. Healing patients is not. Anyone can say "Hi Mr. smith. how are you feeling today? What seems to be the problem?"

Amen, jack.

 

[gary5]

Some people get into med school primarily because they have perfect memories. Others get there by working hard. It really doesn't matter how you get there. So don't worry about how naturally talented you are. Everything that you accomplish, whether with little effort or with great effort, is still your accomplishment.

 

[jennie 21]

I think in general, someone who isn't as smart but works hard can do as well as someone who is smart but doesn't work very hard. Where you run into problems is competing with people who both have brains, and work very hard, which is a lot of the people in med school. When you have two people who both work equally hard but one is just brighter than the other, obviously that person is going to do better. Problem is in medical school, almost everyone works hard, and most of those who appear not to, are lying. Some do work harder than others, but pretty much everyone has to work hard.

 

[starwisher]

Several of you are guilty of what is known in psychology as the fundamental attribution error. The fundamental attribution error is attributing one's own failures to circumstance and the failures of others to intrinsic characteristics. This is a natural human error, and its reversal is associated with major depression.

You know I've heard of the fundamental attribution error before but I've never really thought about it in the context of depression before. My psychiatrist is always pointing out to me how I automatically think that if I don't know something or I do something in a different way than other people I think it is because I'm stupid and I always say the only reason I got into med school was because the admissions office made a mistake. I know I am intelligent but I always have this fear that other people will think I am stupid (and I always notice things in other people that I would call stupidity in myself and I make allowances for them that I would never make for myself).

Anyway you don't have to be a genius or work outrageously hard to get passing grades in medical school, but I do wonder about those people who get the highs on all the tests and how much work that takes, I'm sure none of those people are just naturally that intelligent. I don't know how to study effectively because like many other people I never had to do more than a few hours of studying for a test until I got into med school so I settle for going to class (or listening to the lectures online) and doing a little reading and reviewing on top of that and I get passing grades. I'm not happy with that and I do try to be a better student, but I haven't found a cure for my laziness yet. I have six months to fix my problem before the boards.

It is actually really insulting for people to assume just because you say you don't study much you are a liar. In the beginning of a unit I can sometimes study up to 1.5 hours a day for three or so days and at the end of a unit I might be able to study 4-6 hours a day for a weekend, but besides that to pass tests all I do is go to class or more often listen to our lectures online the week or two before the test. I wish I had the dedication to study more because then maybe I would feel like I was actually learning something in med school and I wouldn't have to be so freaked out about the boards. I don't understand why anyone would lie about how much they do or don't study, what do you get out of it? Also, what do you get out of assuming that people are liars if they say the study way less than you? I think that for the most part the amount of time you spend studying doesn't mean anything to anyone but yourself, most people who know how little studying I do think it is so cool that I don't feel the need to study for hours on end and yet I feel like crap when I think about how little I study because I can't make myself study as much as other people do.