working in california after residency

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pej933

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I hear that if you want to practice anesthesiology in california, especially, northern california, it's better to get your training in a california program because you get to make connections during residency.

I want to know how much of this is true. I may have to go out of state for residency but definitely want to come back to cali. Any thoughts>
 
I got a job offer with a group, contingent upon me finishing residency. Yeah, I would guess it doesn't really matter where you do your residency (unless you want to work in SF, probably)
 
I got a job offer with a group, contingent upon me finishing residency. Yeah, I would guess it doesn't really matter where you do your residency (unless you want to work in SF, probably). And this job offer came while I was a 4th year medical student.
 
Yea I had the same question too. Like if you were from LA should you just go to UCLA or if from San Francisco just go to UCSF as opposed to all the East Coast schools cause you figure grads from UCLA will stay in So Cal and those from UCSF will stay in the Bay Area. I guess what we're really asking is how important is it to start making connections, networking, in residency and to train where you ultimately want to practice.
 
VERY, VERY, VERY important. Believe me I have heard this from many, many residents. If their is a certain place you want to live, DO your residency there. Connections are what are going to get you the job, not name, believe me. If you want more options than yes, a big name might be helpful. I want to live in Miami so I am going to UM and that will help me more than going to some stuffy school in Boston. Believe me. Good Luck.
 
not true. at every interview i've gone to, i specifically asked where the residents have practiced, and all the upper echelon programs (MGH, BW, columbia, northwestern, u chicago, baylor, JHU...), they all had at multiple people per year go get jobs outside of their geographical locations. california, florida, texas were all common locations to go back to. they all said if you want to go somewhere, the school has connections to many different places.

i'm not sure how the community programs and less competitive places are like, but there should be no problem with the big names.
 
the anesthesia shortage is everywhere. I am a CA-3 at Wayne State University, in Detroit. One of the grads two years ahead of me got a job just south of San Francisco, north of Monterey. He's originally from Chicago, so it's not like he had contacts before residency. He now lives on the HWY. 1, with ocean views. He's now contacting us to recruit one of us to join his group.

Connections are very important, and your program Chair can help you make those connections. Make sure you get close to him/her, attend national meetings with him/her, where he/she can network and help introduce you to people.
 
First off I just want to say that I completely agree. But it is like I said, you will def have more options coming from a big wig, BUT, to get the BEST jobs in LA you have to go to UCLA or USC. The best jobs in NYC: Columbia, Cornelll, Mt. Sinai, NYU. Best jobs Miami - UM or UF. No doubt you will get a job and probably a good one from going to an IVY, but all these private groups have ties with these local programs and are activly recruiting from the area, because that is what they do. You will get offers that from these people while in residency. From somewhere else you will have to do a little more work yourself and from your chair, and you could land one, but believe me there were more options available for those local. So I agree but disagree. I still believe that if I want to live in Miami, UM is the best bet. I'll have a Great job waiting for me before the end of my CA2 year. That is my onest opinion, feel free to listen to others. Good Luck
 
What about getting fellowships in CA after residency? Do you have to do residency in CA to secure a competitive fellowship in CA or is it OK to be from one of the big Northeast programs?

And then, if you do a fellowship in CA after doing residency in the Northeast, can you get some of the top jobs in CA?

I am trying to decide whether to stay in the Northeast where I'm from or go out west to CA where I think I may want to end up. I like the programs in the Northeast more but there's always the draw of palm trees and sun...
 
What are "top" or "best" jobs? Does anyone know what the F' they're talking about or is everyone just making **** up like I always do 😀 ?? Everyone (ok, maybe not everyone) says things like they know what they're talking about for sure - - but if its super hard to get a well paying partner track job (my loose definition of a good job) on the other side of the country then crap dude - I just might have to start stressing out a little bit more.
 
Ok, let me see if i dont have a handle on this:

At this point in time the job market is soooo wide open, you can be a graduate of the Clown School of Timbuktu and still land a solid job. I think when we ask about "name brand" most of us are thinking about keeping all our options open and about the future when the market might get tight (hope for the best, prepare for the worst sort of thing).

I think that if you absolutely know you want to live in one city forever then pick the best program in that city. You can always go to MGH, Hopkins, UCSF for name but i think a mid tier program in your city of future employment would probably serve you as well.

I definetely agree w/ this statement:
"No doubt you will get a job and probably a good one from going to an IVY, but all these private groups have ties with these local programs and are activly recruiting from the area, because that is what they do. You will get offers that from these people while in residency. From somewhere else you will have to do a little more work yourself and from your chair, and you could land one, but believe me there were more options available for those local. "

And to me a good job is the job that you want when you want it. You always have to keep your options open like i said. Usualy you're looking for high pay, quick partnership, low call, working w/ people you can relate to and most importantly being able to practice the way you like. whether this is working 24/7 and alternating between the ICU and cardiac or working 6months on 6months off. A job w/ friends who respect you and you them, and a job which you love. This to me is the top/best job.

So if I know i will stay in So Cal, I could go to MGH, JH and get a "top" job in LA w/ some scutwork and help from chair, or I could go to UCLA (a tier under the others) and still get a top job and supposidly easier cause you are networking all that time.

it's nine degress here. have you ever tried taking a pee outside in that kinda weather? huh, have you? well, i dont reccomend it.
i cant wait to get to No Cal, anybody reccomend a good place to stay?
 
fuzzy_wuzzy said:
Ok, let me see if i dont have a handle on this:

At this point in time the job market is soooo wide open, you can be a graduate of the Clown School of Timbuktu and still land a solid job. I think when we ask about "name brand" most of us are thinking about keeping all our options open and about the future when the market might get tight (hope for the best, prepare for the worst sort of thing).

I think that if you absolutely know you want to live in one city forever then pick the best program in that city. You can always go to MGH, Hopkins, UCSF for name but i think a mid tier program in your city of future employment would probably serve you as well.

I definetely agree w/ this statement:
"No doubt you will get a job and probably a good one from going to an IVY, but all these private groups have ties with these local programs and are activly recruiting from the area, because that is what they do. You will get offers that from these people while in residency. From somewhere else you will have to do a little more work yourself and from your chair, and you could land one, but believe me there were more options available for those local. "

And to me a good job is the job that you want when you want it. You always have to keep your options open like i said. Usualy you're looking for high pay, quick partnership, low call, working w/ people you can relate to and most importantly being able to practice the way you like. whether this is working 24/7 and alternating between the ICU and cardiac or working 6months on 6months off. A job w/ friends who respect you and you them, and a job which you love. This to me is the top/best job.

So if I know i will stay in So Cal, I could go to MGH, JH and get a "top" job in LA w/ some scutwork and help from chair, or I could go to UCLA (a tier under the others) and still get a top job and supposidly easier cause you are networking all that time.

it's nine degress here. have you ever tried taking a pee outside in that kinda weather? huh, have you? well, i dont reccomend it.
i cant wait to get to No Cal, anybody reccomend a good place to stay?
Click to expand...

the market is such in flux my friends that nobody keeps one job for more than a few years.. maybe a little longer.. but usually there is some dispute and the anesthesiologists move on.. its not like 20 years ago where you were at one place forever..
 
pej933 said:
I hear that if you want to practice anesthesiology in california, especially, northern california, it's better to get your training in a california program because you get to make connections during residency.

I want to know how much of this is true. I may have to go out of state for residency but definitely want to come back to cali. Any thoughts>
Click to expand...
Are you serious?? Have any of you been to Northern California? You can train anywhere. Northern CA is so desperate for doctors, I get job offers EVERY DAY and I don't even have a CA license.

This whole thread is just so blatantly wrong with so much wrong information. I have been reading it for a few days and trying hard not to get in the middle of it but I can't refrain any longer. I wish those of you who are not even in medical school or in the job market currently would quit giving false information about the current job market. I live 2 hours from the Northern Cali border, you can go to school anywhere, go to residency anywhere, get a California license and get a job.
 
davvid2700 said:
the market is such in flux my friends that nobody keeps one job for more than a few years.. maybe a little longer.. but usually there is some dispute and the anesthesiologists move on.. its not like 20 years ago where you were at one place forever..
Click to expand...
This is totally true. It's why I ended up doing locums. Have not stayed at a perm job more than 3 months because of administration and just workplace hostility, or I just hated it. I hate all the governmental regulations and just want to take care of the patients. Locums allows me to do that and bypass the crap.
 
pej933 said:
I hear that if you want to practice anesthesiology in california, especially, northern california, it's better to get your training in a california program because you get to make connections during residency.

I want to know how much of this is true. I may have to go out of state for residency but definitely want to come back to cali. Any thoughts>
Click to expand...
Completely false statement. You are mis informed. Do not have to have any connections to get a job.
 
fuzzy_wuzzy said:
Yea I had the same question too. Like if you were from LA should you just go to UCLA or if from San Francisco just go to UCSF as opposed to all the East Coast schools cause you figure grads from UCLA will stay in So Cal and those from UCSF will stay in the Bay Area. I guess what we're really asking is how important is it to start making connections, networking, in residency and to train where you ultimately want to practice.
Click to expand...
Not necessary. I have moved across the country 4 times for jobs. Never had any connections in any place I interviewed or have worked. All that mattered was I was board certified and a clean record without any legal issues.
 
miamidc said:
First off I just want to say that I completely agree. But it is like I said, you will def have more options coming from a big wig, BUT, to get the BEST jobs in LA you have to go to UCLA or USC. The best jobs in NYC: Columbia, Cornelll, Mt. Sinai, NYU. Best jobs Miami - UM or UF. No doubt you will get a job and probably a good one from going to an IVY, but all these private groups have ties with these local programs and are activly recruiting from the area, because that is what they do. You will get offers that from these people while in residency. From somewhere else you will have to do a little more work yourself and from your chair, and you could land one, but believe me there were more options available for those local. So I agree but disagree. I still believe that if I want to live in Miami, UM is the best bet. I'll have a Great job waiting for me before the end of my CA2 year. That is my onest opinion, feel free to listen to others. Good Luck
Click to expand...
Seriously? Maybe for other careers, but not medicine.
 
fukuisan said:
What about getting fellowships in CA after residency? Do you have to do residency in CA to secure a competitive fellowship in CA or is it OK to be from one of the big Northeast programs?

And then, if you do a fellowship in CA after doing residency in the Northeast, can you get some of the top jobs in CA?

I am trying to decide whether to stay in the Northeast where I'm from or go out west to CA where I think I may want to end up. I like the programs in the Northeast more but there's always the draw of palm trees and sun...
Click to expand...
It's ok to be from anywhere. Fellowships are like anything else, they want the best candidate. You will just have to apply and see what happens.
 
aredoubleyou said:
What are "top" or "best" jobs? Does anyone know what the F' they're talking about or is everyone just making **** up like I always do 😀 ?? Everyone (ok, maybe not everyone) says things like they know what they're talking about for sure - - but if its super hard to get a well paying partner track job (my loose definition of a good job) on the other side of the country then crap dude - I just might have to start stressing out a little bit more.
Click to expand...
Yes, this whole thread is FOS. They are all blowing smoke. I don't think anyone except me is even in the job market and are all speculating and give wrong information. Ugh.
 
fuzzy_wuzzy said:
Ok, let me see if i dont have a handle on this:

At this point in time the job market is soooo wide open, you can be a graduate of the Clown School of Timbuktu and still land a solid job. I think when we ask about "name brand" most of us are thinking about keeping all our options open and about the future when the market might get tight (hope for the best, prepare for the worst sort of thing).

I think that if you absolutely know you want to live in one city forever then pick the best program in that city. You can always go to MGH, Hopkins, UCSF for name but i think a mid tier program in your city of future employment would probably serve you as well.

I definetely agree w/ this statement:
"No doubt you will get a job and probably a good one from going to an IVY, but all these private groups have ties with these local programs and are activly recruiting from the area, because that is what they do. You will get offers that from these people while in residency. From somewhere else you will have to do a little more work yourself and from your chair, and you could land one, but believe me there were more options available for those local. "

And to me a good job is the job that you want when you want it. You always have to keep your options open like i said. Usualy you're looking for high pay, quick partnership, low call, working w/ people you can relate to and most importantly being able to practice the way you like. whether this is working 24/7 and alternating between the ICU and cardiac or working 6months on 6months off. A job w/ friends who respect you and you them, and a job which you love. This to me is the top/best job.

So if I know i will stay in So Cal, I could go to MGH, JH and get a "top" job in LA w/ some scutwork and help from chair, or I could go to UCLA (a tier under the others) and still get a top job and supposidly easier cause you are networking all that time.

it's nine degress here. have you ever tried taking a pee outside in that kinda weather? huh, have you? well, i dont reccomend it.
i cant wait to get to No Cal, anybody reccomend a good place to stay?
Click to expand...
You are misinformed. Northern Cal is buried in snow currently. No different than where you are now. The way Obama has screwed up the medical system there is not going to be a shortage of physician jobs anytime soon. I don't think you need to worry about that. Everyone on this thread who is worrying about getting a future job based upon where they went to residency and what school and who you slept with and who's daddy knew your second cousin, etc. is waiting for a serious wake up call. Now that I have crashed the thread I think I'm done now. Carry on. Worry on...............
 
cabinbuilder said:
Are you serious?? Have any of you been to Northern California? You can train anywhere. Northern CA is so desperate for doctors, I get job offers EVERY DAY and I don't even have a CA license.

This whole thread is just so blatantly wrong with so much wrong information. I have been reading it for a few days and trying hard not to get in the middle of it but I can't refrain any longer. I wish those of you who are not even in medical school or in the job market currently would quit giving false information about the current job market. I live 2 hours from the Northern Cali border, you can go to school anywhere, go to residency anywhere, get a California license and get a job.
Click to expand...

Cabin, the reason you are in high demand in NorCal is that you are an FM Doc--not an anesthesiologist. I saw an advertisement the other day for an FM doc in Stockton for 136K. Are you serious? Couple that with high CA taxes and a 400K student loan....I doubt there are many takers. No wonder they are desperate for FM docs.
 
Silent Cool said:
Cabin, the reason you are in high demand in NorCal is that you are an FM Doc--not an anesthesiologist. I saw an advertisement the other day for an FM doc in Stockton for 136K. Are you serious? Couple that with high CA taxes and a 400K student loan....I doubt there are many takers. No wonder they are desperate for FM docs.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know, that is a laughable salary. I can make that is 6 months on locums. I would never even consider that. But someone once told me "all numbers are negotiable". They don't teach you in residency that the salary the employer puts out there is the lowest they think they can get away with. You are expected to come back with a counter offer. Generally you can demand the salary you want (within reason) but it's hard to know you have that right and that option when looking at your first job out of residency. Trust me, that 136K could be 200K easily and they wouldn't even question it.
 
Cabin builder,

I must ask. Did you just come off your meds? Why are you addressing a long dead thread with such vitriol?


And by desirable Northern California, I think most people are referring to Marin and not Humboldt.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
cabinbuilder said:
Yes, I know, that is a laughable salary. I can make that is 6 months on locums. I would never even consider that. But someone once told me "all numbers are negotiable". They don't teach you in residency that the salary the employer puts out there is the lowest they think they can get away with. You are expected to come back with a counter offer. Generally you can demand the salary you want (within reason) but it's hard to know you have that right and that option when looking at your first job out of residency. Trust me, that 136K could be 200K easily and they wouldn't even question it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can buy that. But at any rate, working in CA is tough. I do believe the Anesthesia market there in particular will offer substantially lower wages than elsewhere, esp. in the desirable metros. Heck, even in Modesto. I think the jobs for Anes. docs in CA are also hard to find.
 
nimbus said:
Cabin builder,

I must ask. Did you just come off your meds? Why are you addressing a long dead thread with such vitriol?


And by desireable Northern California, I think most people are referring to Marin and not Humboldt.
Click to expand...
Heck, I don't even know. Somehow I got tagged in this thread. Drank too much wine I think. Had a long drive post snow storm back to my locum job I can't stand. 8 more days. Just on a roll and seemingly excessively irritated.
 
cabinbuilder said:
Heck, I don't even know. Somehow I got tagged in this thread. Drank too much wine I think. Had a long drive post snow storm back to my locum job I can't stand. 8 more days. Just on a roll and seemingly excessively irritated.
Click to expand...


Haha....I've been there
 
nimbus said:
Haha....I've been there
Click to expand...

I didn't even realize until I did about 10 posts that it was the anesthesia forum. An I'm like WTF? How did I even get involved with this?? Sigh..... such as it is.


BTW: I'm off my seroquel, thorazine, ativan, and lithium. HA!!!!
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure why you're so fired up about a 7 year old thread.😕
I know the CA market, then and now. It is vastly different when you leave the coast. Podunk hospitals will take anyone willing to go to the Valley/desert or the forest lands North of SF. Anyone can get a job there, if you have a pulse and speak some Spanish or broken English.
Getting into a good group in an actual desirable city is not as easy as you suggest. Getting a partner track position is even harder in many places. There are groups that haven't hired a partner track person in years. Lots of places are still MD only and they run very lean.
You don't necessarily have to train there, but the connections help. They call the PDs and advertise the jobs to the superstar residents. Your old resident pals call you and discuss changing jobs and working with them. Jobs they deny even having. I've seen it with my own eyes, on the east and west coast.
 
This is an age-old debate and the data to answer the question definitively are sparse. What you really want to know is whether the percentage of people at all non-CA programs that WANTED to get a job in CA and actually succeeded was as high as the percentage of people from CA programs that wanted to stay here and succeeded. Not gonna geyt it. As a proxy for that, you can google groups' home pages and look to see where their physicians trained. I did this for the (recently acquired) MAC group and the group at Summit Alta Bates (both considered highly desirable groups in the area); you could do this for Kaiser as well. I didn't look at them all, but of the random smattering I looked at >95% trained in the bay area. Do with that what you will.
 
Geographic proximity isn't really what's important. What's important are the personal connections that given residency program has. Of course a lot of people train near where they they want to end up practicing because well . . . they want to live in that area. So naturally there will be a lot of personal connections between a residency program and the surrounding practices. However, you also see practices that have strong connections to residency programs that aren't so close because one former resident got a job there, was a strong partner and then proceeded to recruit his friends and other new grads to the practice because they know that program kicks out good peple. I trained in SoCal. We had strong connections to a very lucrative group in Phoenix. We had an attending that used to be in PP in the bay area. Guess what? Last year we sent 8-9 people to quality bay area practices including MAC and a great group in Berkely as well as 2 in the city. I interviewed at a group up in Spokane that hires a lot of people from Wake Forest for the reasons mentioned above. At my current gig in SoCal I'd say about 2/3 of us trained in SoCal while the other 1/3 trained at big Boston area programs. We are about interview a resident from Tufts. It all depends on who you know.
 
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