worst mistake of my life?

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OK kids...enough is enough. I know stupidity is like crack cocaine, you just want to stomp it to death but, really:
:troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll:
 
kb1900 said:
another manhattan school. I didn’t vibe with the Nyu environment at all. It seemed miserable
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I can see that. I interviewed at some NY programs for residency and it seems a fast paced "no mercy on the weak" training environment.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
I can see that. I interviewed at some NY programs for residency and it seems a fast paced "no mercy on the weak" training environment.
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I more or less chose the cushiest school I could get into. Having said that, I have plenty of friends at various stages of their training at NYU and they have nothing but positive things to say about the medical school.
 
NYU did seem to have a sweet location when I visited. I'll give it that. Reminded me of the area around Jefferson but insanely more expensive.
 
plasticsday1 said:
Thank you, and to everyone who did post something actually meaningful and not mocking. Could you elaborate on this though? Maybe NYU's 2018 match list doesn't match up to Harvard's. But now that it's ranked #3, it basically is as good as HMS, Hopkins, Stanford, Penn, etc. and it's match list in the next year or two should skyrocket. As I said, money can be easily replaced but prestige is forever and that's what's really biting at me
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Said no one ever and I don't care what the list says. Harvard, Stanford, Hopkins, Penn etc are name brand schools. NYU, no matter where it is in the rankings, is just not going to have the same appeal as the true country club elites. It's like comparing a mclaren to a rolls royce - same price, maybe, and maybe the mclaren even looks flashier, but everyone knows the person being chauffeured in the rolls is the bigger baller.

Seriously though, just do a fellowship at whatever the top school is for your field and that will probably matter more.
 
Goro said:
OK kids...enough is enough. I know stupidity is like crack cocaine, you just want to stomp it to death but, really:
:troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll::troll:
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Thanks guys, I do feel a bit better reading most of these posts. Whether I feel that way once the interviews start rolling in and come match day, we'll see.

I do not appreciate being called a troll when I explicitly stated that I am not. The fact that it comes from @Goro however makes me more apathetic, given that I have never heeded his often unhelpful, usually bitter, and always non-clinically relevant advice. Please do not comment on this thread again, I will end it myself when I'm ready.

To go off of what some of you are saying, can anyone provide any insight into what makes the USMLE rank list? NYU must be doing something incredibly right to leapfrog their way to #3. I get that the match list from this year isn't suddenly different or better than last year. But it must mean SOMETHING that they're now in the same atmosphere as HMS, JH, Stanford. If they can stay in that spot, they must be able to catch up in prestige-value to PDs eventually. It's at that time that I'll most regret my decision.
 
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Who knows what NYU changed. It could have been as simple as an increase in NIH funding. I know of a school a few years ago who hired a big time cardiology researcher (non-clinician) who brought in a boatload of funding, and if I remember right (off the top of my head) their ranking improved as a result. There are many criteria that go into USNWR rankings, many of which are not all too relevant to a school's match lists.

I think you're still confusing medical school prestige with residency prestige.

In a small highly competitive field, what matters more is the prestige of your academic center's residency program in your field of choice. That generally translates to better research opportunities, more bigwigs to vouch for you and write top notch LoRs.

I'll give you a hypothetical example.

Medical school A is one of the best medical schools in the country, generally viewed as top 3 on most ranking lists. They generally have stellar residency programs but their ophthalmology department underwent some big departures 10 years ago, and that department hasn't fully recovered. As a result, their chair is not extremely well known in the ophthalmology world and their research faculty are limited. Medical students at medical school A have trouble finding faculty mentors to help them turn out strong publications and have weaker name-brand LoRs when applying to ophtho, despite the reputation of their medical school overall.

Medical school B is solid (top 40) and its residency programs vary. Their internal medicine program is weak and generally takes lower level applicants. However they were able to recruit a bigwig to their ophtho department 10 years ago, and as a result, their ophtho residency program has flourished. They have a large academic ophtho department with plentiful research opportunities for medical students.

In that scenario, you're better off being a student at Medical School B if you want to match ophtho.

An example like that doesn't apply as well to a large field like IM. But in these small highly competitive specialities, it's often connections and who you have in your corner vouching for you. That is separate from the rankings you're obsessed with.
 
Snoopy2006 said:
Who knows what NYU changed. It could have been as simple as an increase in NIH funding. I know of a school a few years ago who hired a big time cardiology researcher (non-clinician) who brought in a boatload of funding, and if I remember right (off the top of my head) their ranking improved as a result. There are many criteria that go into USNWR rankings, many of which are not all too relevant to a school's match lists.

I think you're still confusing medical school prestige with residency prestige.

In a small highly competitive field, what matters more is the prestige of your academic center's residency program in your field of choice. That generally translates to better research opportunities, more bigwigs to vouch for you and write top notch LoRs.

I'll give you a hypothetical example.

Medical school A is one of the best medical schools in the country, generally viewed as top 3 on most ranking lists. They generally have stellar residency programs but their ophthalmology department underwent some big departures 10 years ago, and that department hasn't fully recovered. As a result, their chair is not extremely well known in the ophthalmology world and their research faculty are limited. Medical students at medical school A have trouble finding faculty mentors to help them turn out strong publications and have weaker name-brand LoRs when applying to ophtho, despite the reputation of their medical school overall.

Medical school B is solid (top 40) and its residency programs vary. Their internal medicine program is weak and generally takes lower level applicants. However they were able to recruit a bigwig to their ophtho department 10 years ago, and as a result, their ophtho residency program has flourished. They have a large academic ophtho department with plentiful research opportunities for medical students.

In that scenario, you're better off being a student at Medical School B if you want to match ophtho.

An example like that doesn't apply as well to a large field like IM. But in these small highly competitive specialities, it's often connections and who you have in your corner vouching for you. That is separate from the rankings you're obsessed with.
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This makes sense, and I believe you. But your scenario describes students who are starting at med schools A and B from the beginning. Let's say that two students from schools A and B have made it to ERAS submission and have the exact same resume. Meaning, student from school A was able to accomplish just as much in ophtho as student B despite a weaker home ophtho department. Same exact resume, and assuming same interview skills, wouldn't PDs almost always rank the student from med school A, a top 3, over school B, only a top 40? I get that this is an extreme hypothethical, but when it comes to fields like derm, plastics, ophtho, ent, etc., being able to gain even the slimmest of advantages seems worth the price.
 
plasticsday1 said:
I do not appreciate being called a troll when I explicitly stated that I am not.
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Well then.

If y'all will excuse me, I'm going to go start five different affirmative action threads in pre-allo. I'm sure @WedgeDawg will be cool with it though, because I'll explicitly start each post with "Not trolling, but..."
 
plasticsday1 said:
This makes sense, and I believe you. But your scenario describes students who are starting at med schools A and B from the beginning. Let's say that two students from schools A and B have made it to ERAS submission and have the exact same resume. Meaning, student from school A was able to accomplish just as much in ophtho as student B despite a weaker home ophtho department. Same exact resume, and assuming same interview skills, wouldn't PDs almost always rank the student from med school A, a top 3, over school B, only a top 40? I get that this is an extreme hypothethical, but when it comes to fields like derm, plastics, ophtho, ent, etc., being able to gain even the slimmest of advantages seems worth the price.
Click to expand...

No. I 100% agree with @Snoopy2006. Let's assume everything about the two students were the same: Step 1/2, rotation honors, AOA, research productivity, social acumen, etc.

Student A is from a top 3 med school with a weaker ophtho dept.
Student B is from a top 40 med school with a strong ophtho dept.

You're underestimating the importance of having a strong home program supporting your application. In these types of competitive fields, LORs are probably the most important aspect of getting you into residency. A letter from student B's ophtho dept will carry much more weight than a letter from student A's dept. If everything else is the same, Student B will get ranked higher because having a nationally-reputable name/dept backing you says more about your character than Step 1, research, or med school ranking. I really don't think PDs care about med school ranking at all.

Also, if it makes you feel any better, you would be hard-pressed to try matching into plastics from NYU without taking research years. It's almost expected from the chair, who very highly values research.
 
plasticsday1 said:
Because I've seen the match lists of the most prestigious schools and the less prestigious schools. There's an enormous difference, especially in fields like plastics.
Click to expand...

How did we let people into schools who can't appreciate the concept of multiple variables affecting an outcome?
 
plasticsday1 said:
Thanks guys, I do feel a bit better reading most of these posts. Whether I feel that way once the interviews start rolling in and come match day, we'll see.

I do not appreciate being called a troll when I explicitly stated that I am not. The fact that it comes from @Goro however makes me more apathetic, given that I have never heeded his often unhelpful, usually bitter, and always non-clinically relevant advice. Please do not comment on this thread again, I will end it myself when I'm ready.

To go off of what some of you are saying, can anyone provide any insight into what makes the USMLE rank list? NYU must be doing something incredibly right to leapfrog their way to #3. I get that the match list from this year isn't suddenly different or better than last year. But it must mean SOMETHING that they're now in the same atmosphere as HMS, JH, Stanford. If they can stay in that spot, they must be able to catch up in prestige-value to PDs eventually. It's at that time that I'll most regret my decision.
Click to expand...

If you're not, then congrats for making one of the most foolish threads in the history of SDN.

That takes some talent.

Right up there with Streampaw and Rhabdoviridae.

Applying Ignore function now. You'll feel some pressure right between the eyes.
 
mastermind8490 said:
No. I 100% agree with @Snoopy2006. Let's assume everything about the two students were the same: Step 1/2, rotation honors, AOA, research productivity, social acumen, etc.

Student A is from a top 3 med school with a weaker ophtho dept.
Student B is from a top 40 med school with a strong ophtho dept.

You're underestimating the importance of having a strong home program supporting your application. In these types of competitive fields, LORs are probably the most important aspect of getting you into residency. A letter from student B's ophtho dept will carry much more weight than a letter from student A's dept. If everything else is the same, Student B will get ranked higher because having a nationally-reputable name/dept backing you says more about your character than Step 1, research, or med school ranking. I really don't think PDs care about med school ranking at all.

Also, if it makes you feel any better, you would be hard-pressed to try matching into plastics from NYU without taking research years. It's almost expected from the chair, who very highly values research.
Click to expand...

This is a valid point, but you're not taking into account the fact that applicants need 3-4 LORs. Again, assuming that the other 2-3 letters are exactly the same between the two students and from the field's top dogs, does it really matter that much about the difference in the last letter? I feel like school reputation supercedes that. And I believe you that PDs don't care about school ranking per se, but I'm basically talking about school prestige which is more general but infinitely more well-known. The prestige that comes with being a top 3-5 school (it may not be known in NYU's inaugural year, but it sure will be soon) far surpasses that of a top 50 school.

Also I feel like this is getting a bit off point. NYU has a great plastics department. The analogy given by @Snoopy2006 is related but not competely accurate. I'm talking about my personal worst life decision, and unless I drive drunk tomorrow and get into a crash, this still seems to be it (even if it doesn't feel as bad as it did yesterday night,)
 
plasticsday1 said:
. I'm talking about my personal worst life decision, and unless I drive drunk tomorrow and get into a crash, this still seems to be it (even if it doesn't feel as bad as it did yesterday night,)
Click to expand...

You've lived a charmed life then bud...take solace in that and let the chips fall where they may.
 
Goro said:
If you're not, then congrats for making one of the most foolish threads in the history of SDN.

That takes some talent.

Right up there with Streampaw and Rhabdoviridae.

Applying Ignore function now. You'll feel some pressure right between the eyes.
Click to expand...


I honestly don't know what being Ignored on this site entails. Does that mean I can't ever message Goro anymore? Because god knows I would never have done so anyway - an anonymous non-clinician online is the last person I'd ever go to for advice. Does it mean that this thread disappears from Goro's account? Because that'll be hitting the jackpot since he won't be able to reply again. If he can still read this thread and my posts, I don't see what Ignore even does.

To any premeds, I retract my original statement that ALL students should choose prestige over money. However, I still strongly believe that a subset of you absolutely should, including my past self.
 
plasticsday1 said:
This is a valid point, but you're not taking into account the fact that applicants need 3-4 LORs. Again, assuming that the other 2-3 letters are exactly the same between the two students and from the field's top dogs, does it really matter that much about the difference in the last letter? I feel like school reputation supercedes that. And I believe you that PDs don't care about school ranking per se, but I'm basically talking about school prestige which is more general but infinitely more well-known. The prestige that comes with being a top 3-5 school (it may not be known in NYU's inaugural year, but it sure will be soon) far surpasses that of a top 50 school.

Also I feel like this is getting a bit off point. NYU has a great plastics department. The analogy given by @Snoopy2006 is related but not competely accurate. I'm talking about my personal worst life decision, and unless I drive drunk tomorrow and get into a crash, this still seems to be it (even if it doesn't feel as bad as it did yesterday night,)
Click to expand...

Prestige is not something that's going to change over the course of 2-3 years thanks to a higher rank in USNWR, at the very least it will take a decade for the actual perceived prestige to change in the eyes of PDs and people in that field who actually are involved in the process. The only way it happens faster Imo is if the school suddenly hires a bunch of big name faculty to the program all at once.

As someone else stated, going to a med school with an elite program attached to it is likely to be more important than the prestige of the school as a whole because of the connections you'll make and the people who will be vouching for you.
 
OP, don't worry. Soon you will be tricked into marrying a pretty girl who will emotionally abuse you then get pregnant by someone else, tell you it's yours for years, then divorce you and take all the kids and half your stuff and make you send her most of your $500k income while she mopes around in the mansion you paid for in sweatpants casually dating random guys from the gym and partying in vegas on weekends.

You've got a long road of real mistakes ahead of you in life.
 
Wow, so much misunderstanding of the importance of rankings.

Here's the real question: what is the lag time between a USNWR ranking change and that shift permeating the popular culture and understanding of the medical field?

Answer: I don't know, but long enough that it renders your original concern moot.

Will the perception of NYU as a top school evolve if they are able to maintain this ranking? Of course it will. Did anything substantially change at NYU in the last year to explain the ranking change? Probably not. I'm always wary of huge shifts either way in rankings; usually this points to some underlying methodology change rather than any meaningful changes at the school, though not always. Either way, nobody is going to suddenly look at NYU grads and ascribe them the same name-prestige as a Harvard or Hopkins; they won't be referred to as "the guy from NYU" the way people often refer to "the guy from Hopkins." That kind of change takes a lot more than a ranking change, though maybe the rank shift suggests it will ultimately occur. Even so, that's a long way off.

You definitely made the right call.
 
Even if I buy into this prestige over all theory for the sake of argument, NYU wasn’t ranked #3 four years ago, so unless your past self can foresee the future, your past self didn’t make the biggest mistake of your life. Move on.

Also, you’re debt free, matched into plastics, and are a few years away from a plastics salary, so even if this is the biggest mistake of your life, it’s hard to summon up too much pity for you.
 
plasticsday1 said:
But now that it's ranked #3, it basically is as good as HMS, Hopkins, Stanford, Penn, etc. and it's match list in the next year or two should skyrocket. As I said, money can be easily replaced but prestige is forever and that's what's really biting at me
Click to expand...

Because of some arbitrary ranking system that tweaked their criteria to favor NYU? Yeah that isn't how this works. No PD is going, "Damn look NYU jumped to no. 3, better bump plasticsday1 up the rank list now. Gotta have that transient presitge."

OrthoTraumaMD said:
Wait wait...this whole post is literally about a change in prestige at a school you turned down. So clearly, prestige is not forever

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

I'm calling it now, in 4 years or so we will see a post that is someone essentially saying the opposite of this thread, "HELP!!!! I went to NYU over Yale because it was #3 in USWNR and now its fallen down to #16 while Yale is now #4!! Can I still match plastics? How do I overcome this?"
plasticsday1 said:
But it must mean SOMETHING that they're now in the same atmosphere as HMS, JH, Stanford.
Click to expand...

But are they really? No.

plasticsday1 said:
I feel like school reputation supercedes that.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the tried and true SDN practice of ignoring advice of residents and attendings based on the good old "feels"
 
Ok just looked at the new ranking methodology for this year. Looks like the lessened the weight of peer and residency director assessment and added some really interesting new ways of weighting the various research activities at each school. Obviously NYU was well positioned to benefit from this change -- significant research funding combined with maybe less instant name prestige than other Top 20 schools -- and shot near the top of the chart.

Whenever the methodology changes, there tends to be some shuffling over the next couple of years as other institutions seek to exploit it. Sometimes when there are new data used, some schools may not even submit that information or don't have it readily available in time. Obviously that will get sorted out over the next couple of cycles. Definitely interesting though.

Perhaps the more interesting questions is whether this change is a good one. It seems that many people - such as our illustrious OP here - look to rankings mostly as a marker for prestige and overall public perception of an institution. For these people, this methods switch actually tells you less about how people see each school than it did before. It certainly benefits schools with less name recognition prestige but a vibrant thriving research and educational setup; perhaps the other scores will follow with time as people see new names in the top 10.
 
atomi said:
OP, don't worry. Soon you will be tricked into marrying a pretty girl who will emotionally abuse you then get pregnant by someone else, tell you it's yours for years, then divorce you and take all the kids and half your stuff and make you send her most of your $500k income while she mopes around in the mansion you paid for in sweatpants casually dating random guys from the gym and partying in vegas on weekends.

You've got a long road of real mistakes ahead of you in life.
Click to expand...


This is why I'd never marry someone who doesn't make multiple 6 figures like I will. Be in a long-term relationship, absolutely I would. But marry, with all the legal implications as you've eloquently described, he11 no
 
ortnakas said:
Even if I buy into this prestige over all theory for the sake of argument, NYU wasn’t ranked #3 four years ago, so unless your past self can foresee the future, your past self didn’t make the biggest mistake of your life. Move on.

Also, you’re debt free, matched into plastics, and are a few years away from a plastics salary, so even if this is the biggest mistake of your life, it’s hard to summon up too much pity for you.
Click to expand...

Not being able to predict the future doesn't mean a decision made in the past/present not a mistake. However, your overall point is well-taken.
 
Ah yes, the tried and true SDN practice of ignoring advice of residents and attendings based on the good old "feels"[/QUOTE]


I don't have too much experience on this site so it's hard for me to know which people who reply are actual residents/attendings, and which aren't. On a different note, why are residents and attendings even here? Don't you have better or more important things to do?
 
operaman said:
Ok just looked at the new ranking methodology for this year. Looks like the lessened the weight of peer and residency director assessment and added some really interesting new ways of weighting the various research activities at each school. Obviously NYU was well positioned to benefit from this change -- significant research funding combined with maybe less instant name prestige than other Top 20 schools -- and shot near the top of the chart.

Whenever the methodology changes, there tends to be some shuffling over the next couple of years as other institutions seek to exploit it. Sometimes when there are new data used, some schools may not even submit that information or don't have it readily available in time. Obviously that will get sorted out over the next couple of cycles. Definitely interesting though.

Perhaps the more interesting questions is whether this change is a good one. It seems that many people - such as our illustrious OP here - look to rankings mostly as a marker for prestige and overall public perception of an institution. For these people, this methods switch actually tells you less about how people see each school than it did before. It certainly benefits schools with less name recognition prestige but a vibrant thriving research and educational setup; perhaps the other scores will follow with time as people see new names in the top 10.
Click to expand...


Do you guys think there will ever be a med school rank list determined solely by quality of each school's yearly match list? Because at the end of the day, that's all that really matters for a med student. How well a school can set you up to match. Everything else is just a means to that end. You go to med school to match as well as possible, so why isn't that the end all to rank lists? Funding for research is good, but only in so much as it can help you pump out papers for your CV to set you up for a better match.
 
plasticsday1 said:
I don't have too much experience on this site so it's hard for me to know which people who reply are actual residents/attendings, and which aren't. On a different note, why are residents and attendings even here? Don't you have better or more important things to do?
Click to expand...

The words "faculty," "attending physician," or "resident" are your clue.

Plastics, eh?
 
jonnythan said:
The words "faculty," "attending physician," or "resident" are your clue.

Plastics, eh?
Click to expand...

To be fair, I don't think those display for anyone using the latest (default) Forumz version. They really do need to address that since it makes a huge difference to how people interact with the site.
 
WingedOx said:
To be fair, I don't think those display for anyone using the latest (default) Forumz version. They really do need to address that since it makes a huge difference to how people interact with the site.
Click to expand...

Oh, wow, I didn't realize that. That's a problem.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Yeah bro.... you have some serious issues with the way you view what's important.
Click to expand...


Avoiding divorce and losing hundreds of thousands of dollars that I've dedicated my entire life for and sacrificed who knows how much for is unimportant? I didn't say that I wouldn't go out with someone who doesn't make a lot of money. I didn't say I wouldn't commit to a long-term relationship with someone who has a low-paying job. I didn't say I look down on anyone who doesn't make six figures. But I'm not religious or socially conservative, and marriage isn't something sacred that I value particularly highly just for the sake of it. I actually simply said I will do whatever it takes to keep what I've earned through a life's worth of personal hard work and sacrifice. And if that's something that is unimportant to you, then good for you and all the charity cases in the world that will happily take your money.
 
plasticsday1 said:
Do you guys think there will ever be a med school rank list determined solely by quality of each school's yearly match list? Because at the end of the day, that's all that really matters for a med student. How well a school can set you up to match. Everything else is just a means to that end. You go to med school to match as well as possible, so why isn't that the end all to rank lists? Funding for research is good, but only in so much as it can help you pump out papers for your CV to set you up for a better match.
Click to expand...
Match lists are extremely self-selecting. There are people who kill it stats-wise, that could match anywhere, that do family med or other primary care because they want to. Also, there are stories every year about people who take it upon themselves to match somewhere competitive that the school wouldn't be able to send students otherwise. With a system such as that, rankings could be skewed drastically by even just a few outliers and/or people choosing what they would rather practice instead of what their stats would allow them to do.
 
Lol man, everyone’s clowning this guy
 
plasticsday1 said:
On a different note, why are residents and attendings even here? Don't you have better or more important things to do?
Click to expand...
Well, some of us actually care about the future of our profession.
Also, I’m highly amused that you scoff at us, given that the first thing the Hippocratic oath mentions is mentorship. In fact, it’s stated before the “healing the sick” part:
“To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood...to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the physician’s oath, but to nobody else.”
Hippocratic Oath - Wikipedia
And lastly, as a future surgeon, you may want to note that the first and foremost thing students going into surgery cite as their motivation is having good mentors.
Factors influencing US medical students' decision to pursue surgery. - PubMed - NCBI



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
OrthoTraumaMD said:
Well, some of us actually care about the future of our profession.
Also, I’m highly amused that you scoff at us, given that the first thing the Hippocratic oath mentions is mentorship. In fact, it’s stated before the “healing the sick” part:
“To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood...to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the physician’s oath, but to nobody else.”
Hippocratic Oath - Wikipedia
And lastly, as a future surgeon, you may want to note that the first and foremost thing students going into surgery cite as their motivation is having good mentors.
Factors influencing US medical students' decision to pursue surgery. - PubMed - NCBI



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

this is so true especially for me. I could probably be convinced to love nephrology if the mentor was really interested in mentoring me.
 
The worst mistake of your life is ruminating and becoming distressed about things that are not under your power to change. And if you keep doing it the remainder of your life will indeed be a failed misery.
 
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