Worth retake?

[kaDa]

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Hi, so I have a cGPA 3.27, sGPA 3.17, and bcpGPA of 3.07. I took the DAT once and got:

AA: 19
TS: 20 (Bio: 22, GC: 19, OC: 19)
RC: 21
QR: 16
PAT: 18

I only reviewed a couple of weeks before the test and I definitely saw areas I could improve on if I retook the DAT in December. The main reason I am considering a retake is that if I knock it out of the water, will that help me land any late interviews? I have none so far. Or am I just obsessing about something that won't pay off in the end. I understand the risks of doing poorly, but I really think if I put aside more study time I will improve by 2-3 points, especially in PAT (studied it the day before 😱). I am also curious if anyone else has been in this kind of situation before and had any good feedback. Thanks.

 

[FutureDent020]

Hi, so I have a cGPA 3.27, sGPA 3.17, and bcpGPA of 3.07. I took the DAT once and got:

AA: 19
TS: 20 (Bio: 22, GC: 19, OC: 19)
RC: 21
QR: 16
PAT: 18

I only reviewed a couple of weeks before the test and I definitely saw areas I could improve on if I retook the DAT in December. The main reason I am considering a retake is that if I knock it out of the water, will that help me land any late interviews? I have none so far. Or am I just obsessing about something that won't pay off in the end. I understand the risks of doing poorly, but I really think if I put aside more study time I will improve by 2-3 points, especially in PAT (studied it the day before 😱). I am also curious if anyone else has been in this kind of situation before and had any good feedback. Thanks.

You just answered your own question. If you think you can do better, knock it out. It would help with your GPA. You're scores are pretty good though. The fact that your postbac GPA is lower than your undergrad GPA may concern the dental schools. I doubt it's your DAT scores that have kept you from getting interviews

 

[wantVCUdental]

Your scores are fine, you got 21 in RC (THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DAT!).
If you retake in Dec, that means your app will be hold back, even if you pull off 23+ in TS and AA by then, it's going to be rough...
might as well just stick to it. And remember, there is NO ACTUAL guarantee you will get 23+ later on, because every test is different.
If i were in your shoes, i'll stick with it

 

[FutureDent020]

Your scores are fine, you got 21 in RC (THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DAT!).
If you retake in Dec, that means your app will be hold back, even if you pull off 23+ in TS and AA by then, it's going to be rough...
might as well just stick to it. And remember, there is NO ACTUAL guarantee you will get 23+ later on, because every test is different.
If i were in your shoes, i'll stick with it

Huh??? RC might be more important than the PAT and QR, but no way it's more important than TS..

Anyways, yea, a re-take is risky. But do it if you feel confident

 

[gpisotti]

It is true retakes are risky but the key is to take calculated risks. In all honesty i beleive your scores to be fine, the GPA is the kicker. So now your choices weigh out in that if you "know" (key word) that you can do better do it and try and off set shortcommings. another question to look at would be how do the other areas of your app look ie. dental experience, service hours, personal statement ect. feel free to PM me I am in the same boat as far as a debatable retake (committed to it already though i'm taking it in two days and the dead line to reschedual is noon two days prior and that was about nine hours ago ahhhhhhhhhh) wish you and me luck

 

[wantVCUdental]

Huh??? RC might be more important than the PAT and QR, but no way it's more important than TS..

Anyways, yea, a re-take is risky. But do it if you feel confident

I think RC>>>TS if one scores below 19 on TS, but he has done well, over 20 on TS 😀
RC is a measure of how well you can take in information fast, if you have really good RC you can learn science quickly

 

[FutureDent020]

I think RC>>>TS if one scores below 19 on TS, but he has done well, over 20 on TS 😀
RC is a measure of how well you can take in information fast, if you have really good RC you can learn science quickly

I see what you are saying but I think that requires too much speculation on the adcoms part. Let's say you got a 18 on TS and a 22 on RC (a scenario in relation to what you have said). You believe this indicates that the student is intelligent and can absorb information quickly, so he must have not studied correctly or enough for the TS; or he was asked question he was not prepared for. On the other hand, a student who got a 18 on RC and 20 on TS, just spent several months studying for the DAT; therefore, was able to score well on the TS. But 18 on RC indicates a slower learning ability...

I'm presenting this scenario in response to what you have said above. Is this what you think goes through adcoms heads? And of course, no one knows necessarily. I just want to hear you out 😀 See, I'm happy

 

[wantVCUdental]

I see what you are saying but I think that requires too much speculation on the adcoms part. Let's say you got a 18 on TS and a 22 on RC (a scenario in relation to what you have said). You believe this indicates that the student is intelligent and can absorb information quickly, so he must have not studied correctly or enough for the TS; or he was asked question he was not prepared for. On the other hand, a student who got a 18 on RC and 20 on TS, just spent several months studying for the DAT; therefore, was able to score well on the TS. But 18 on RC indicates a slower learning ability...

I'm presenting this scenario in response to what you have said above. Is this what you think goes through adcoms heads? And of course, no one knows necessarily. I just want to hear you out 😀 See, I'm happy

That is exactly what i am talking about!
That's why low RC scores are killers!

 

[kaDa]

Thank you all for your responses! Yes, I was not very focused on managing my GPA in undergrad, but I had a great time so I do not mind 😉. My EC's and research are the strongest part of my application; if I get into D school it will be because of these, not my GPA. I think I will take the DAT again and apply to Master's programs with my new score. If I do not get into any D schools this cycle then I will use this new score for next cycle as well. I wish everyone else luck in their own D school endeavors 🙂. If I remember, I will post my new scores on this thread so that someone else may get some perspective if they find themselves in a similar situation. Hopefully I have good results 😛.

I hesitate to comment on the DAT, since I personally think standardized tests only go so far to indicate success in Dental or any other professional school. 4 HOURS of answering multiple choice questions will never take away from 4 YEARS of work done in undergrad. Anyway, I personally think RC indicates how well you process new information and TS shows how well your long term memory works. Both are important to be a good student, but as my GPA shows, just because you have the tools to succeed doesn't mean you will necessarily do so 😛. Also, the %'s are probably more important than the actual numbers. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[FutureDent020]

Thank you all for your responses! Yes, I was not very focused on managing my GPA in undergrad, but I had a great time so I do not mind 😉. My EC's and research are the strongest part of my application; if I get into D school it will be because of these, not my GPA. I think I will take the DAT again and apply to Master's programs with my new score. If I do not get into any D schools this cycle then I will use this new score for next cycle as well. I wish everyone else luck in their own D school endeavors 🙂. If I remember, I will post my new scores on this thread so that someone else may get some perspective if they find themselves in a similar situation. Hopefully I have good results 😛.

I hesitate to comment on the DAT, since I personally think standardized tests only go so far to indicate success in Dental or any other professional school. 4 HOURS of answering multiple choice questions will never take away from 4 YEARS of work done in undergrad. Anyway, I personally think RC indicates how well you process new information and TS shows how well your long term memory works. Both are important to be a good student, but as my GPA shows, just because you have the tools to succeed doesn't mean you will necessarily do so 😛. Also, the %'s are probably more important than the actual numbers. Just my 2 cents though.

Well said and good luck

 

[dentalWorks]

In all honesty, the RC is wayyyyy overrated and I'll tell u why.

Theoretically speaking, a student who can retain a lot of info in a fast period of time is "supposed" to handle dental school / medical school very well (keyword THEORETICALLY). However I believe the reality is farrr from that... I'll tell you why

When I was in high school, I watched my sister get through dental school, and let me tell u, my sister was only in america for 5 years before entrolling, and today (almost 10 years later) she is one of the slowesttttttt english readers I know- I'm talking like forest gump level reading, and yet she still finished her step1 after first 2 years in the 97th percentile (if I remember correctly) and when she graduated from her class, she was ranked 3rd lol (yeh she's crazy)... I bet u 1000 dollars if she takes the RC test today she'll score a 14 maybe 15 at most.

So if ur wondering why / how did she perform so well, its easy, dental/medical/phamacy schools are not exactly about how fast u can read / retain or how high ur IQ is... Its alllll about sitting down infront of those thick 3 inch binders worth of lecture notes (and trust me when I tell. This) she used to sit down an entire weekend (for example) spending 12 to 14 hrs EACH day sitting in her room memorizing and studying. I'll never forget how many 3 inch binders she used to study for 1 week of finals, it was crazy as heck, and fast reading alone won't get u through it, only strong work ethic

 

[FutureDent020]

In all honesty, the RC is wayyyyy overrated and I'll tell u why.

Theoretically speaking, a student who can retain a lot of info in a fast period of time is "supposed" to handle dental school / medical school very well (keyword THEORETICALLY). However I believe the reality is farrr from that... I'll tell you why

When I was in high school, I watched my sister get through dental school, and let me tell u, my sister was only in america for 5 years before entrolling, and today (almost 10 years later) she is one of the slowesttttttt english readers I know- I'm talking like forest gump level reading, and yet she still finished her step1 after first 2 years in the 97th percentile (if I remember correctly) and when she graduated from her class, she was ranked 3rd lol (yeh she's crazy)... I bet u 1000 dollars if she takes the RC test today she'll score a 14 maybe 15 at most.

So if ur wondering why / how did she perform so well, its easy, dental/medical/phamacy schools are not exactly about how fast u can read / retain or how high ur IQ is... Its alllll about sitting down infront of those thick 3 inch binders worth of lecture notes (and trust me when I tell. This) she used to sit down an entire weekend (for example) spending 12 to 14 hrs EACH day sitting in her room memorizing and studying. I'll never forget how many 3 inch binders she used to study for 1 week of finals, it was crazy as heck, and fast reading alone won't get u through it, only strong work ethic

No argument here..

 

[wantVCUdental]

In all honesty, the RC is wayyyyy overrated and I'll tell u why.

Theoretically speaking, a student who can retain a lot of info in a fast period of time is "supposed" to handle dental school / medical school very well (keyword THEORETICALLY). However I believe the reality is farrr from that... I'll tell you why

When I was in high school, I watched my sister get through dental school, and let me tell u, my sister was only in america for 5 years before entrolling, and today (almost 10 years later) she is one of the slowesttttttt english readers I know- I'm talking like forest gump level reading, and yet she still finished her step1 after first 2 years in the 97th percentile (if I remember correctly) and when she graduated from her class, she was ranked 3rd lol (yeh she's crazy)... I bet u 1000 dollars if she takes the RC test today she'll score a 14 maybe 15 at most.

So if ur wondering why / how did she perform so well, its easy, dental/medical/phamacy schools are not exactly about how fast u can read / retain or how high ur IQ is... Its alllll about sitting down infront of those thick 3 inch binders worth of lecture notes (and trust me when I tell. This) she used to sit down an entire weekend (for example) spending 12 to 14 hrs EACH day sitting in her room memorizing and studying. I'll never forget how many 3 inch binders she used to study for 1 week of finals, it was crazy as heck, and fast reading alone won't get u through it, only strong work ethic

I hope admissions people think this way

 

[dentalWorks]

When I worked in my software engineering job, I remember sometimes we used to have 1 position opening for some department. And man let me tell you, about 30 to 50 people would apply (super highly competitive applications with 5 to 15+ years of experience), and we had to pick 1 person out of the 50 individuals! How did we do it? lol obviously we didn't role a 50-sided dice and picked whatever answer it gave us (although it would have been just as efficient lol)

But we ran those individuals through interview after interview, from personality level interviews to technical level interviews (I did alot of those), to stress level interviews and sometimes, fun level interviews (lol yeh we took out the individual on an "interview" late night at a bar type setting just to see if he/she would enjoy themselves)..... it was the most ******ed things we did just to pick 1 individual........... But there is logic behind is, you see, the company CAN NOT hire all 50, we only want 1 individual, so, we had to find ways to literally weed people out. It doesn't matter if it was efficient, the most important thing was to weed folks out and to finally end up with 1 individual.

Same thing applies to dental schools and all those super highly competitive professional schools (law school, med school, pharm school, etc), they all use standards to weed folks out. When a school has a class of 80 seats and 3000+ applicants apply lol, they HAVE to weed people out, I am more than a 100% sure that out of those 3000, about 500 of them are super qualified and CAN become dentists if given the opportunity, unfortunately, only 80 make it.

Obviously some of those standards are things like "OMG NOTHING BELOW 15 ON EACH SECTION".... "excuse me dental school, I have a 4.0 GPA and I am a nuclear physicist with minors in biochemistry, I am very smart with an IQ of 150, I have a TS of 27 but a RC of 14 can I get into your school?"................. "OMGGGG 14 ??? GET THE F OUT OF HERE WE WANT BETTER PEOPLE.... REJECTED!!! OWNEDDD!!!"

 

[doc toothache]

). My EC's and research are the strongest part of my application; if I get into D school it will be because of these, not my GPA. I think I will take the DAT again and apply to Master's programs with my new score. the %'s are probably more important than the actual numbers. Just my 2 cents though.

Since you are applying to ds rather than grad school your gpa and dat scores are more important than your research experience. Your enthusiasm for % rather than numbers is not shared by ds and that may explain why the ADA does not report percentages.

Your scores are fine, you got 21 in RC (THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DAT!).

You mean after AA/TS.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8792125#post8792125

 

[FutureDent020]

Since you are applying to ds rather than grad school your gpa and dat scores are more important than your research experience. Your enthusiasm for % rather than numbers is not shared by ds and that may explain why the ADA does not report percentages.




You mean after AA/TS.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8792125#post8792125

That's what I said, but if you read his (VCUdental) explanation and the rest of the thread, his argument makes sense, I just don't know if it's right

 

[FutureDent020]

When I worked in my software engineering job, I remember sometimes we used to have 1 position opening for some department. And man let me tell you, about 30 to 50 people would apply (super highly competitive applications with 5 to 15+ years of experience), and we had to pick 1 person out of the 50 individuals! How did we do it? lol obviously we didn't role a 50-sided dice and picked whatever answer it gave us (although it would have been just as efficient lol)

But we ran those individuals through interview after interview, from personality level interviews to technical level interviews (I did alot of those), to stress level interviews and sometimes, fun level interviews (lol yeh we took out the individual on an "interview" late night at a bar type setting just to see if he/she would enjoy themselves)..... it was the most ******ed things we did just to pick 1 individual........... But there is logic behind is, you see, the company CAN NOT hire all 50, we only want 1 individual, so, we had to find ways to literally weed people out. It doesn't matter if it was efficient, the most important thing was to weed folks out and to finally end up with 1 individual.

Same thing applies to dental schools and all those super highly competitive professional schools (law school, med school, pharm school, etc), they all use standards to weed folks out. When a school has a class of 80 seats and 3000+ applicants apply lol, they HAVE to weed people out, I am more than a 100% sure that out of those 3000, about 500 of them are super qualified and CAN become dentists if given the opportunity, unfortunately, only 80 make it.

Obviously some of those standards are things like "OMG NOTHING BELOW 15 ON EACH SECTION".... "excuse me dental school, I have a 4.0 GPA and I am a nuclear physicist with minors in biochemistry, I am very smart with an IQ of 150, I have a TS of 27 but a RC of 14 can I get into your school?"................. "OMGGGG 14 ??? GET THE F OUT OF HERE WE WANT BETTER PEOPLE.... REJECTED!!! OWNEDDD!!!"

This is a thread about retaking a DAT. What in God's name are you talking about... And law schools are nowhere near a selective as med schools and dental schools

 

[doc toothache]

That's what I said, but if you read his (VCUdental) explanation and the rest of the thread, his argument makes sense, I just don't know if it's right

It is not about whether the argument holds water or not; rather, it is about how ds view the importance of various sections of the DAT.

 

[PaulieGualtieri]

I think what the dental schools look at first is the TS and individual school threshold level for PAT. Then they make sure the AA is adequate. All in all the breakdown I've seen goes like this: TS>PAT>AA.

To answer the initial question, I would probably study for like a month or so before your DAT and just kill it. Wait till summer to take it so you can really focus on the test. My first attempt was 18/18/20 and I was able to get it to 21/22/23 by studying for a month and I've been out of college for 1.5 years. PAT is just practice, you can definitely kill it.

 

[doc toothache]

I think what the dental schools look at first is the TS and individual school threshold level for PAT. Then they make sure the AA is adequate. All in all the breakdown I've seen goes like this: TS>PAT>AA.

It helps to read how ds rate the various sections of the DAT.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=657139
http://www.ada.org/ada/prod/survey/survey_ed_vol2.pdf

 

[PaulieGualtieri]

Wow, that spreadsheet is quite informative. Thanks doc toothache

 

[klutzy1987]

I got an 18 on RC and got interviewed at almost every school i applied to. RC cant hold that much weight, otherwise harvard wouldnt have interviewed me much less waitlisted me.

 

[2PacClone23]

I got a 24 in RC and a 18 in TS. What about THAT?

 

[kaDa]

Hi, so I have a cGPA 3.27, sGPA 3.17, and bcpGPA of 3.07. I took the DAT once and got:

AA: 19
TS: 20 (Bio: 22, GC: 19, OC: 19)
RC: 21
QR: 16
PAT: 18

I only reviewed a couple of weeks before the test and I definitely saw areas I could improve on if I retook the DAT in December. The main reason I am considering a retake is that if I knock it out of the water, will that help me land any late interviews? I have none so far. Or am I just obsessing about something that won't pay off in the end. I understand the risks of doing poorly, but I really think if I put aside more study time I will improve by 2-3 points, especially in PAT (studied it the day before 😱). I am also curious if anyone else has been in this kind of situation before and had any good feedback. Thanks.

Hey everyone, so I had a 2nd post in this thread about how I would update on my 2nd DAT score. I hope that someone can read about my experience (and interesting side conversation about ability in the RC section) and gauge their own situation with a better sense of personal judgment. Here are my scores for the 2nd test:

AA: 23
TS: 22 (Bio: 20, GC: 24, OC: 24)
RC: 25
QR: 21
PAT: 22

I guess people like to see the study habits used to succeed on the DAT. I think mine will be interesting considering I increased my AA from a 19 to a 23, a pretty significant increase in percentile (78% I believe for 19 to 98.7% for a 23).

So for my first test, I went through DAT destroyer in 2 weeks right before I took it. It was definitely a bad idea b/c I was doing 10-12 hrs/day and not fully learning all the material I was covering. It was going so slowly that I did not have time to do any PAT or QR review. I only got exposure to these sections through 2 DAT achiever tests. I got AA's of ~14 or 16, something much lower than my 19 (pc got wiped since I took them, erasing the scores+validation code forever, I won't miss them 😀). This was all done about a month after graduating college.

After my low score in QR and no interview situation, I figured I would take it again and at least remedy the QR part. I was pretty lazy for a while and only took it today, but I'm happy with the results obviously 🙂. I spaced out 3 Topscore exams over 3 weeks and studied pretty intensely in between, probably around 8 hrs a day except for weekends which was at most an hour a day since one day was spent taking a practice test. I'm a half-time art student right now as part of a low budget 'gap year', or as I like to think of it, unemployment 🙄. I basically spent 3-4 hours a day doing art and the other moments studying. I also got the basic Crack PAT and Crack Math and spaced those out as well (only did half the PAT tests...).

I never really practiced RC, although I do love reading. I really suggest Stephen King's Gunslinger series, Tad Williams' Otherland series, and The Raw Shark Texts by Steven Hall. Ender's Game is sweet too. I appreciate any good recommendations 🙂.

If anyone has questions please don't hesitate to PM me or post here. I have a lot of respect for people who are dedicated enough to seriously consider retaking the DAT for a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th time. In terms of school next year, I've gotten into a few Master's programs with promising %'s of matriculation into D-school after completion, but I will be calling different D-schools to see if they think I should just reapply this coming cycle, or wait for another year's worth of science grades. Again, I hope this helps anyone improve their own application in some small way 🙂.

 

[lvtran]

Haha wow, that's beast. Congrats!
I loved the Ender series too 🙂